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Subject: Auggies Going out of Business!

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kumaiti
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09/16/2006 2:36 AM  
Uhn, this kind of nonsense move reminds me of WizKids and their MageKnight line of miniatures.

You know when you are playing too much DDM when you read the Art of War and start wondering how that applies to DDM...

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09/16/2006 3:33 AM  
Posted By kumaiti on 09/16/2006 2:36 AM
Uhn, this kind of nonsense move reminds me of WizKids and their MageKnight line of miniatures.

How so?  I wasn't a collector of addictive plastic toys before DDM.

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kumaiti
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09/16/2006 5:00 AM  

How so? I wasn't a collector of addictive plastic toys before DDM.


To tell you the truth, it is not exactly the same situation. The similarity starts and ends on "it all starts with bad news". It is just that it made me remember how much I liked to collect and play MK and because stupid moves from Wizkids, the game died.

Wizkids didn't do exactly the same move, but they screwed real bad the support for their own game. It amuses me that they had such a good concept and game and yet they screwd it up...

You know when you are playing too much DDM when you read the Art of War and start wondering how that applies to DDM...

Gallandv
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09/16/2006 5:15 AM  

This is sad news indeed. The thought process behind a move like this, if indeed it does happen, would have to be in favor of promoting brick and mortar stores. I do have not one but two gaming venues within twenty miles of me. They both have official DDM and SWM tournaments. Neither offers a discount to someone buying by the case. I have tried to even offer a three case purchase at each release to get some kind of discount but to no avail.

 

I have tried to support my local gaming store but asked only for a discount in mass purchase. I could not, so I therefore took my business on-line. Do I buy boosters from my local stores? Yes, I do. I buy about a case of each release to be honest. I buy the majority on-line though because I can get almost twice as much product for the same amount of money. Did Wizards make less on those two cases I bought on-line? No, they shouldn’t have. So there profit margin should remain the same from me either way.

 

I buy a case worth of boosters from my local gaming store but I feel no loyalty to do so. I buy miniatures for RPG purposes only. I could care less about the officially sponsored events held there. I don’t play the miniature game. The way I see it they almost drive me away from their business with their desire to milk as much from each sell as they can. A 10% discount would have kept my business and their profit margin off of me would be much higher then it is now.

 

The only reason I go at all is because the manager (note: the owner makes the calls I mentioned above) is a great guy and my kids love him.

 

I digress. I buy my boosters from an on-line vendor and a lot of single sells from either Auggest or Baltac’s Trading store. Whoever has the most of the miniatures I want in stock at my time of order. I have had great service from both and must say I feel more loyalty to them then I do to my LGS.

 

Would those going out of business stop me from buying WOTC products? Shamefully no. It would however limit the money I spend on their products however. I would continue to buy the case I get from my LGS but I would no longer buy the other two cases I get on-line nor the money (probably $150) a month in single purchases. That’s probably 3 cases that I don’t purchase each set including singles.

 

Will my loss of revenue affect them? Of course not, but the loss of other people like me might.

 

In the end I will hope this is all a big misunderstanding and that my purchases can continue as they have. If not I guess I might have to try to get my son into Heroclix again. At least there I find myself chasing rares a whole lot less and I can buy singles of that line.

 

My thoughts are with you Auggust because you are an important link in my collection and your service keeps me and my son in the miniatures we desire.


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09/16/2006 5:36 AM  
Hate to see it happen, Brick and Mortar store should be supported (if they warrant it) but anyone who is willing to promote the product should be supported as well.



I don't think we'll get any king of response from Lidda or Shoe until Monday at least and of course even then only after they've been given the go-ahead from those above them.


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09/16/2006 5:49 AM  
Looks like Wizards only want to support the MLGS (Monopolistic Local Gaming Stores)

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09/16/2006 8:16 AM  
I just want to be another person to say that I hope very much that WotC isn't going to go down this path of cutting off internet retailers. I've been a very happy patron of Auggie for a long time now. It would be very very sad to see the business end.


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09/16/2006 8:33 AM  
Sorry, Can't say that I care too much. Online discounting is killing alot of stores that don't have room for gaming. I also think that WoTC will be selling stuff on their own sites. this will give B&M stores a chance to survive- and you can be sure the guy you are buying from isn't fly by night.


I personally could care less if brick and mortar stores thrive. Most of the ones I've been in are staffed by unfriendly folks, and theres no way I'd actually want to run a game there rather than the comfort of my own home. I dont feel the need to subsidize someone else having a respite from their parent's basement lol.

If they stop selling to Auggie, I can guarantee that it wont suddenly fill me with a desire to pay 30% more at a local store... I'll probably just stop buying. Hopefully they get this mess sorted out Auggust. Games Workshop also has some sort of rediculous "no internet sales" thing going, and I've heard its hurt their sales since it went into effect.

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09/16/2006 8:36 AM  
Its a shame but I do not believe it is uncommon for gaming giants to do so. I do not know all of the specifics but Games Workshop does not allow online sales of thier products, but I am not sure if they restrict the sale of their product to storefront businesses.
Personally, I do not see the problem with online and flea market sellers. WoC is making money no matter who is selling the stuff.

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09/16/2006 9:55 AM  
It seems like WotC is doing more to kill my interest in DDM than increase it.

If I were not allowed to buy products from online merchants, I may not buy any more DDM at all.

Combine a booster increase to 15 bucks with a harsh cold shoulder to online merchants, and the price for DDM has roughly doubled per booster. The product isn't worth it. Even if all the flaws in the system were fixed (paint issues, sculpt issues, bent stat cards, etc.).

I'm burned out from WotC (Hasbro, whatever) milking every penny of profit possible. I know that profit is the bottom line for Hasbro--it sure is starting to feel like the only line.

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09/16/2006 10:00 AM  
Email sent to WotC

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09/16/2006 11:29 AM  
I'm curious to find out why they are doing this. This is the route that GW took. Not allowing Internet sales except on their own site at full price. It almost...almost makes sense (at least you can see some logic to it) for GW to do this as a means of supporting local game shops that have areas to play (and thus introducing new people to the game) because they don't sell at big box stores like Walmart. Since WotC sells at Walmart and other big box stores, it would defeat the purpose of "supporting the local game stores." I wonder if this will affect the big guys like Amazon.


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09/16/2006 12:14 PM  
You guys have this all wrong! I worked at an FLGS for about six months and it is standard policy for all of our local distributors that they do not sell to imaginary stores or flea marketeers. The purpose behind this is to make money, let me explain.

Average cost in time and money to gain a business licence in CA: $7 and 30 minutes (I just did it). Now you are a business and you wanna buy your minis on the cheap so you approach a distributor and say you need X cases of minis. You pay roughly 50% or so of cost and pass that savings on to two or three friends. You also like repaints/epics so you spend an additional $20 on a retailer kit. This esentially makes the distro center the front line seller and this fictional store makes a killing on ebay or floods a local market with alt paints/epics and for a very small, or miniature, price they can rent a spot at the local flea market and sell on the cheap that which does not sell online. Now the FLGS that pays rent, power, water and provides a place to play and socialize makes no money off this product, discontinues the line on their shelf, and the distributor in turn is no longer selling enough of the product and buys less and less of it driving WotC's numbers down locally and they in turn send the local tournement 20-100 miles away where the distro center has sound business practices. Sounds fun and great huh!?


This is why it is common practice for distributors to limit who they sell to and make sure it is a B&M not a fictional store. It is good for the game, it does put the money and product support in the right places. I like buying from Auggie but perhaps it is time he went big instead of playing in the minor leagues.

And go to Hasbros website call their customer service and they will tell you they do not prohibit the reselling of any of their product at auctions sites, flea markets or even in the local want ads. seems a little troll-y to me.

BTW do an Ebay search or Google search for GW stuff and it is there.....

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09/16/2006 12:26 PM  
Posted By kumaiti on 09/16/2006 5:00 AM

How so? I wasn't a collector of addictive plastic toys before DDM.


To tell you the truth, it is not exactly the same situation. The similarity starts and ends on "it all starts with bad news". It is just that it made me remember how much I liked to collect and play MK and because stupid moves from Wizkids, the game died.

Wizkids didn't do exactly the same move, but they screwed real bad the support for their own game. It amuses me that they had such a good concept and game and yet they screwd it up...


As far as I know, not even Wizkids ever tried dictating who could and who could not buy their product. Their goofs were limited to a series of increasingly bad marketing gimics and gross public-relations errors. Come to think of it, this is exactly the sort of decision which would have fit perfectly into the downward spiral that Mage Knight became at the end.

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09/16/2006 12:33 PM  
I am not going to go into a long dissertation on the subject but rather hit the high points.

The policy that WOTC is trying to enforce IS hypocritical. The first Star Wars mini I ever saw was at a Wal-Mart. All of their products are available at Internet equivalents to the Wal-Marts and Targets so what is wrong with the smaller mom and pop stores of the Internet? It is ok to sell to Barns & Nobel but not Auggi?! Hello One website has over 1000 items alone. This includes the minis as well. What we are actually talking about is WOTC desire for everyone to pay full retail. Why? They think it will help the hobby but it will instead kill it. Games Workshop pioneered this line of thinking and their balance sheet is not looking too good as a result. Most local gaming stores will not carry the product lines because of all the red tape and exorbitant cost associated with the entire company’s product line. This is what will happen to WOTC. The minis lines will become to overpriced for many people. I for one hate paying $5 for ten skeletons but I will NEVER pay $7.50 let alone $10 for the same commons. I will just save my money and buy from the next company that WILL put out fantasy miniatures and be appreciative of the sales to good customers like Auggi. (Who has a brick and mortar store BTW. It is also the only one you can play at on the weekends for half the year because of the University scheduel!)

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09/16/2006 12:49 PM  

Let me just say that this is a bad move on Wizards' part. I emailed these guys. Auggie has a physical store front where I can play Dungeons and Dragons with my friends. You see, he needs to sell miniatures online in order to make enough money to rent out store space where people can come and play. In fact, I would never have even become interested in WOTC's gaming products if I had not seen them on display in his storefront, which, incidentally happens to be at a flea market. It shouldn't matter where the store is located. He is continuously promoting Dungeons and Dragons products to people who walk in and in fact, having met him, I can safely say that the game is indeed a passion of his. My friends and I enjoy having a place to play and Auggie has always thought of his customers.


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09/16/2006 1:05 PM  
Posted By Jade Phoenix on 09/16/2006 12:33 PM

The first Star Wars mini I ever saw was at a Wal-Mart. All of their products are available at Internet equivalents to the Wal-Marts and Targets so what is wrong with the smaller mom and pop stores of the Internet?

Star Wars have a much bigger collector consumer base than Dungeons and Dragons does. I would guess that maybe one out of thirty people who buy SWM roleplay with them. The Star Wars RPG apparently did not sell well, as WotC isn't doing much with that line now. But the majority of DDM purchases are intended for roleplaying, with collecting and skirmishing as secondary factors.

Roleplaying requires a networking interface that collecting doesn't, and thus roleplaying products need to support brick and mortar stores while collectables don't. I think the problem that WotC has is that it needs to crack down of people selling cases online, while preserving the singles market, which FLGS' don't usually compete with anyway. (My FLGS doesn't sell singles, for example.)

From their perspective, the best way to do this is to allow an FLGS to sell a percentage of their product online as singles and the other part as boosters in their store. That gives the stores more income while preservign the singles market. The downside is that places like GamesOutfitters who sell cases online will get screwed.

It's deja vu all over again.

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09/16/2006 1:09 PM  

I see the biggest argument for this new proposal is of course the survival of the FLGS. This is fine if you live in an area with a FLGS. What about the people who live over an hour from one. Should they have to suffer in their areas because of a lack of one?

 

Does Amazon have a brick and mortar store that supports DDM? Of course not! I bet WOTC is not planning to stop sending it to them. So the argument that it helps the local guy is BS if they continue to ship miniatures into a MEGA on-line store like Amazon. Wal-Mart sells them, not in my area but I have heard in others, and I bet no one has seen them break open a couple of boxes and give a demonstration.

 

This idea that it’s to help the FLGS is IMO flawed. Until they pull it out of the two above mentioned Mega Stores I’m not buying that reasoning. IMO the FLGS deserves your support only if you use it’s venue. Let them earn my patronage don’t force me to shop there.

 

While I was writing this response (in Word) I see Jade Phoenix posted a similar but I will post it anyway to reiterate.


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09/16/2006 1:27 PM  
This decision, coupled with the upcoming price hike could very well be what's commonly known as ...
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09/16/2006 2:46 PM  
Having played ( Past tense ) Gw for almost a decade and put up with thier gimmicks it scares me to see WOTC starting to commit the same mistakes.

GW is a beast to deal with from FLGS point of viewe and if WOTC is not careful then the only place this hobby will have is the backl room somewhere.

I had thought that D&D was mainstream enough to keep this line going. If they continue this practice though they will be in effect throwing us all back 15-20 years in aquirring what we need to game.

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09/16/2006 3:25 PM  
I sent an eMail,too. This can't be right. As others have said: I can't think they can justify it by saying they support Local Gaming Stores. If they said that, they'd have to stop selling to Amazon (or else show everyone they're hypocrites), and if they do that, I guess Amazon will stop selling any Wizards stuff (and that would hurt Wizards big time). Also, even if they could pull it off without either appearing two-faced or making severe losses, it doesn't really work like that. Sure, FLGS have to compete with online shops, but that's no different from almost everything. They have to do the same as the little electronics shops or computer stores, offering to their customers what the online stores can't: Service. If people are able to play in the store, they'll be more willing to buy there. If they are able to participate in tournaments in the store, they'll be more willing to buy there. If they can chatter about the game with friendly and knowledgeable store salesclerks, they'll be more willing to buy there. If they can nogotiate a decent discount for whole cases, they'll be more willing to buy there. If they can get the occasional freebie, like epic cards and repaints for free, they'll be more willing to buy there. Of course, some will just go for the lowest bidder, but it's always like that. But I think that there are no small number of people out there who will buy in the local store if they like it there. On the other hand, handing the local stores a near-monopoly will be bad for a lot of people: Many don't have a store anywhere near them. They depend on online stores to buy the stuff. And don't even start about tournaments. Not every store will sell singles. Without the online store, you'll have to resort to other means to get a full set. Personally, the FLGS I buy all my DDM from doesn't sell singles (they don't sell any minis except for the stuff I order and maybe the icons, since the stuff doesn't sell around here), so without eBay, I'd be quite inconvenienced. I know for sure I won't buy case after case until I have a whole set. I'll stop collecting first. And then there's actually stores that are ULGS (unfriendly local gaming stores). They charge an arm and a leg for their stuff, they don't bother to run tourneys or anything, maybe they even cherry pick boxes, they're rude to customers. It's not every store, but over the years I heard stories about people who would no longer buy in this or that store because of how they were conducting business. For many, the only alternative to that one store with the obnoxious owner and the equally obnoxious salesclerks is an onlinestore. So if you crack down on the online stores, they either have to stop buying or go back to those stores. The stores will know that, of course. Freed from their competition, they will see even less need to put any effort into the game - people have to come and buy, the next gaming store is 200 km away! If they want to do anything, why not crack down on those guys who sell the contents of retailer kits on eBay? I guess many of the epic cards and repaints from eBay comes from stores (not necessarily only online stores and pseudo stores and whatnot) who get the retailer kits and instead of using the stuff within as incentives, they flog the stuff on eBay and make a lot of money with it. Go and rap on those guys' knuckles.

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09/16/2006 4:50 PM  
Edited my original post slightly if anyone cares. New lines are in caps toward the last paragragh and are closer to my disires than the original and was not quite how I meant it.

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09/16/2006 5:09 PM  
Chalk me up in the "Can't by minis anywhere other than online" column.  I'll be moving to Muscat, Oman in a few months and, while I haven't checked yet, I seriously doubt there's a FLGS anywhere within 1,000 miles of there.

Have any of the other online distributors on these boards received similar communication?

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09/16/2006 6:22 PM  
Hello Auggie.

Well, I am sad to hear that what has been happening up here in Canada is starting to be implemented in the USA.

Right after I opened shop (within a few months) we were officially 'blocked' from purchasing product not just from distributors but from the United States. Wizards of the Coast decided that Canadian retailers must purchase only from Canadian Distributors, and that we had to be a 'brick & mortar' store to do so.

I almost went out of business at that day, but I decided to open up a brick-n-mortar to continue doing what I love.

The end result, as you all well know, is that Vesivus is now one of the premiere singles sellers in the world, as well as a top-notch (and very quickly-growing) local gamestore. It's taken a lot of work, but here we are.

I encourage you to do the same -- open up a brick-n-mortar and continue doing what you love.

If that's not an option, I wish you well in your fight against WotC/Hasbro.

John

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09/16/2006 8:18 PM  

Glad to hear that Vesuvius is lending us moral support, but seriously, who buys from them? Unless you live in Canada (which is looking better and better every day) his mini prices and shipping costs are way too high.

For instance:

Gulgar from Vesuvius costs $7.50 + $7 shipping

Gulgar from Auggie: $4.79 + $3.50 shipping


If I had to buy all my minis from Vesuvius I'd long since have gone broke!!!!

Unfortunately, if WoTC/Hasbro really enforces what Auggie is telling us, then Vesuvius' prices might end up being the new Auggies bargain place to buy - which is terribly frightening to contemplate given my level of addiction....


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09/16/2006 8:40 PM  
I am very concerned about this, but obviously we should wait until we get more information. I think that if this effort goes forward it will probably backfire: I just can't picture a company attempting to destroy online sales of its product. I'm trying to picture the meeting where someone says, "Hey, let's eliminate a major distribution channel for our product, one that's been gaining increasing customer usage every year!" and the other people at the meeting say "Yeah, that's a great idea! There's no growth potential in Internet and Ebay sellers anyway!"

Now obviously WotC wants to maintain a good relationship with their traditional retail channel, but is that channel so powerful that it can say "deal with us exclusively"? I guess we'll find out. I can't shake the feeling that there's some piece of information we're missing here. Is there some bigger strategic move going on that this is a part of?

I think that our hobby is going through the same adjustment that a lot of retail products are having to go through in dealing with the presence of the Web and the commerce that goes on there. Indepenedent book stores are facing the same issues fighting against Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Borders, etc. Inevitably, local gaming stores will not be able to compete on price. I think the local game store might have to offer other services (gaming space, internet gaming, tournaments) and charge for them to make up for the lost retail revenue. I don't know if this will work or not, as I have no idea how the economics work out. Maybe local gaming stores should start selling stuff on the Internet.

One thing that I find interesting is that there isn't a "Starbucks" or "Blockbuster" of game stores, at least not yet. It's one of the few retail industries I can think of still dominated by small, independent stores. I think the local gaming store will really be in trouble when EB Games or somebody similar decides to start a national chain of "McGaming Stores". Could this be what Hasbro is up to? But wouldn't that anger the traditional retail channel even more?

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09/16/2006 9:56 PM  
Posted By Weaponbreaker on 09/16/2006 12:14 PM
You guys have this all wrong! I worked at an FLGS for about six months and it is standard policy for all of our local distributors that they do not sell to imaginary stores or flea marketeers.


That was my understanding as well. Don't think this is a new policy. Over a year back I researched opening an online store and came across the same information about not selling wholesale unless you had a brick and mortar store. Figured the online stores had someway around this restriction or had small BM stores.

That said, I thought it was a stupid policy then and I still do. I buy most my minis from Auggie and would like to continue.

I refuse to buy from my local game store, they are some pompous ##@holes.

I say open a small storefront in your basement or something.

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09/16/2006 10:37 PM  
Just to make a quick clarification to my first post, I am a rabid fantasy role player. I have played these games for 26 years. Dungeons and Dragons was a relatively NEW thing when I first cut my teeth in The Caves of Caos.

I have since moved beyond the mechanics of AD&D. I now prefer a points system that is skills heavy. The merits of such a move are not the subject of this post. Although I do not play AD&D anymore I have 1000 DDM minis for use in my GURPS fantasy world.

As the Story Teller (my favorite title for a DM) of some small experience I NEED to have large quantities of minis. I purchase a lot of 10 miniature lots from Auggi for just that reason. I only play DDM at Auggis store (let me stress he HAS a store) because the old geezer is fun to hang around.

We do have another gamming store in Athens but because of the schedule at The University of Georgia that venue (Which I buy every thing other than DDM/SWM lots and singles from because they only sell boosters) is inaccessible for three months out of the year during football season on the weekends. The venue in question is 300 yards from the football stadium. Then if that was not bad enough during the summer and winter break few if any events are held because all the customers are back home. Auggis store is far enough away that even during homecoming weekend we are rolling the dice.

I think it would be a shame if Auggi closed up shop because he sells online. Should that occur I would simply find another company’s product to fill the gap. Such a move my shut people like Auggi down but for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. WOTC will find its bottom lime drastically reduced because a vast number of their customers will drop off when the prices skyrocket. This move is wrong and I have let WOTC know my stance on this matter.

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09/17/2006 4:26 AM  
Posted By zdrake on 09/16/2006 8:40 PM
One thing that I find interesting is that there isn't a "Starbucks" or "Blockbuster" of game stores, at least not yet.
We have had such a chain. It was called Games Workshop. Still is if you look at Starbucks having a similar vertical integration to the model GW went over to in the late 80's.


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09/17/2006 5:02 AM  
Posted By gausse on 09/16/2006 9:56 PM
Posted By Weaponbreaker on 09/16/2006 12:14 PM
You guys have this all wrong! I worked at an FLGS for about six months and it is standard policy for all of our local distributors that they do not sell to imaginary stores or flea marketeers.


That was my understanding as well. Don't think this is a new policy. Over a year back I researched opening an online store and came across the same information about not selling wholesale unless you had a brick and mortar store. Figured the online stores had someway around this restriction or had small BM stores.

That said, I thought it was a stupid policy then and I still do. I buy most my minis from Auggie and would like to continue.

I refuse to buy from my local game store, they are some pompous ##@holes.

I say open a small storefront in your basement or something.

The problem is that I DO have a storefront.  I have been open at this loation for over 6 years and sell Video games and RPG items.  I have a bussiness licence Granted by clark county (Athens GA), a Federal Tax ID and gaming spaced provided for my customers inside my store. Having a Storefront was always a requritment of me opening an account with both of my wholesalers.  The problem is that WotC also says that a certin percentage of sales must come from that storefront which is 50%.  NOW pull up ebay stores and look at the sellers, even if most do 1/5 of what I do I still belive this is would be more than their store makes % wise.
If I had a really big and succsesfull Gaming store I could meet those requirements, but it would have to be really big indeed (and be more focused on Magic instead of DDM and D&D which is my passion).  So what WotC is doing is putting the little guys out, most of whom have small to medium sized stores.Â
WotC cannot enforce the policy evenly accross the board and can only pick off sellers one at a time because it would seriously anger ALOT of end user customers and is hard to prove until they get too big (as in my case I guess) and hurt their short term cash flow.

Another thing, guys please don't compare my store to Vesuvius or anyone elses.  I do appricate that you think I have good prices and I do try to run close to the bone profit wise.  I do make a living however like all other sellers and who knows maybe someone someday will come along and find a better way than I have and be cheaper than me (unlikely though) Vesuvius and other Ebay stores have a diffent biz model and offer many more value added servies.  An excellent sorting feature and Stats and more from Vesuvius for example.  John puts alot of time an effort into those feature I am sure, not to mention he carries out of print items and restocks those.  I only ever buy in stock items in huge quantities.  I may have a few older pieces but those are left overs from when they were in print.

HOWEVER THAT BEING SAID JOHN let me ask you a question.  In your post you said you had to go get a B&M store to continue.  Do you now meet the 50% requirement?  Did you when you first opened the B&M?  If you did $2,000 gross sales your first month did you sell less than that in your Ebay store?  What if your online biz continues to grow  at a faster pace than your instore sales?  I don't expect you to give us hard numbers on this and even if you did would you want WotC to be able to come in, look at your books and verify this?  I must say that I am a little suprised by the other Ebay/online stores reactions throughout this post though.  Adam, John and others, I have nothing but respect for you guys and think you do good jobs.  Your customers seem happy and you all have a good bit of repeat biz and respect.  I never expected you guys to rush to my aid or defence but WotC's gonna pick us off one by one.  To put your heads in the sand and hope WotC overlooks you this purge is folly.  Even if you DO meet the requirments John, I am sure the VAST MAJOIRTY of online sellers don't.  If they are all forced to shut down then you might be the only one standing and be allowed only to sell an equal amout of whatever your Storefront grosses and no matter how large your store is I seriouly doubt you can match the online demand.

One last thing and the most important SO READ THIS PLEASE.  Some of you are waiting on comments before emailing WotC.  Well I doubt they will publicly acknowlage and adress this directly.  There is virtually no way for them to shut down all onlines sellers simutainouly.  Your favorite sellers will simply one by one dissapear.  I am not asking you to boycot or quit or anything like that, if I were only a player and not a dealer as well I know I would not stop playing.  I would be upset, yes but life can and will go on and so will the game.  All I am asking is that you email WotC and let them know you are unhappy with this situation and that you enjoy the freedom to buy online as well as Flgs.  If customer service wakes up Monday morning to see their email full of support for online sellers then maybe they will rethink this policy.
.....Andrew


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09/17/2006 7:06 AM  
Hate to burst your bubble, guys, but this kind of decision from WotC is theirs to make and is designed for the single purpose of ensuring the brand's image in the long run. The fact is most of us on these boards (or any other boards) are case-buying collector cracked nuts. We are the ones hurting most when the prices rise. But the fact we are the brand's best clients and we often buy online to get a decent discount drives the brand out of classic stores - those shops can't compete price-wise, so they stop carrying the product or at least reduce their stock - and thereby the exposure of the brand in the stores. Which slowly leads to a product that is 100% sold on the net, only to the hardcore fans that know about it, and certainly not to any new buyer. And you should also note that those decisions are made by WotC which happens to be the most successful hobby-gaming business globally. I'm pretty sure dozens of people with deep market understanding have analysed this and think that they DON'T WANT THEIR BUSINESS TO BE ON-LINE ONLY. Live with it!

I don't care about DDM skirmish - it's a fun game, that's it. I couldn't care less about DDM tournaments. Yet I think that ensuring the game is present in the gaming stores is the best way to ensure the presence of the DD miniatures in the long run. And if it means price have to rise and discounts disappear, well, I'll buy less, that's for sure, but then again new people will be able to buy some and that'll ensure there is still a DDM line in ten years time.

We must all be aware that there is a PROBLEM with web-shopping. Web-based prices are bound to drive non-web shops out of business sooner or later, and that is not only the case for gaming stuff. All that is bound to end in an equilibrium by the laws of economics, but that equilibrium might take any form between no web-based shops to no brick store, including an equilibrium where on-line and physical shops prices are in line.

Now I'll let you all to your complaining and threatening and whatnot. Those are traits of a childish attitude. Bored of those.

Cheers
Al.

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09/17/2006 7:28 AM  
Sorry we're boring you Al....but nobody is twisting your arm to read this thread.


I'm confused. Hasn't each set sold very well, and in fact sold out in little more than a year of being offered (excluding abberations)?

How could they want better sales than this?

Do they really think that by angering all of us and forcing large price increases on the secondary market that they will end up selling MORE DDM boosters than they already are???

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09/17/2006 7:44 AM  
I just read this on the retailer FAQ on the wizards site located here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=retailer/faq

"Can I open an online store only?

I'm sorry to say that we will not be able to help you.

If you have or are planning on having an exclusively internet store, you will not be able to purchase products from one of our authorized distributors, as by contact with us, or directly from Wizards of the Coast. We deal with traditional brick and mortar stores only.

If you do ever have a brick and mortar store associated with your business, you may contact us about getting a distributors list or opening an account directly with us, but of course we will ask for proof of that actual storefront at that time.
But Why?

Currently Wizards feels that supporting retailers with storefronts is better for the over all support of our products. It's not just about making the sale but the interaction that consumers find at the retail level. Granted not all stores are great or take the time to demo, run league, or just interact with customers but most do who specialize in these types of games. And it has been these stores that have built our business to what it is currently. This all may change, as the whole nature of retailing changes but for now we will continue to support retail shops while looking ahead."

Does anyone know if this policy is new or old?

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09/17/2006 8:49 AM  
that policy has been around for as long as I have been a delegate, but I don't see anything there that states that a flea market store with gaming space is not valid. I have sent an email as well, as this new requirement makes little sense to me.

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09/17/2006 10:01 AM  
I think the intention about the "flea market sellers" item is that they don't want someone who drops $20 for a 10x10 space in a parking lot to be able to be a seller. Auggie, since it sounds like you have a real store, with play space, etc., I don't think that item was supposed to target you. One of the stores I have visited as a delegate sounds like a very similar situation on the "flea market" side. They have a full store, with doors they can lock and everything, if they didn't want to be open at the same time as the rest of the place.
Now, I'm not suggesting that you do anything immoral here, but how do they know that 50% of your sales don't come from the retail location? Just something to think about.

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09/17/2006 3:15 PM  
Posted By Alakhai on 09/17/2006 7:06 AM
Hate to burst your bubble, guys, but this kind of decision from WotC is theirs to make and is designed for the single purpose of ensuring the brand's image in the long run. The fact is most of us on these boards (or any other boards) are case-buying collector cracked nuts. We are the ones hurting most when the prices rise. But the fact we are the brand's best clients and we often buy online to get a decent discount drives the brand out of classic stores - those shops can't compete price-wise, so they stop carrying the product or at least reduce their stock - and thereby the exposure of the brand in the stores. Which slowly leads to a product that is 100% sold on the net, only to the hardcore fans that know about it, and certainly not to any new buyer. And you should also note that those decisions are made by WotC which happens to be the most successful hobby-gaming business globally. I'm pretty sure dozens of people with deep market understanding have analysed this and think that they DON'T WANT THEIR BUSINESS TO BE ON-LINE ONLY. Live with it!

I don't care about DDM skirmish - it's a fun game, that's it. I couldn't care less about DDM tournaments. Yet I think that ensuring the game is present in the gaming stores is the best way to ensure the presence of the DD miniatures in the long run. And if it means price have to rise and discounts disappear, well, I'll buy less, that's for sure, but then again new people will be able to buy some and that'll ensure there is still a DDM line in ten years time.

We must all be aware that there is a PROBLEM with web-shopping. Web-based prices are bound to drive non-web shops out of business sooner or later, and that is not only the case for gaming stuff. All that is bound to end in an equilibrium by the laws of economics, but that equilibrium might take any form between no web-based shops to no brick store, including an equilibrium where on-line and physical shops prices are in line.

Now I'll let you all to your complaining and threatening and whatnot. Those are traits of a childish attitude. Bored of those.

Cheers
Al.

Nice, I though there was not to be negative comments made towards members here, normally a mod would have chimmed in on the last 2 lines on this post......

As to the basic question here, if you are selling stuff at a flea market and have an area the promotes the products, then you have a store front.  It would be hard to say a fleamarket spot is much different from a mall spot, they both pay rent for space from a landlord/owner.  You hours can't be any differnt then the hours that are eshtablished the same as a mall.  This could be considered a store.  Honestly, I'll contact WOTC directly and offer to send them pictures of your area and let them decide based on all the info if you can buy from a dist.

I'm sorry to say that we will not be able to help you.

If you have or are planning on having an exclusively internet store, you will not be able to purchase products from one of our authorized distributors, as by contact with us, or directly from Wizards of the Coast. We deal with traditional brick and mortar stores only.

Well I hate to say it but they are violating their own policy by selling to amazon, buy, overstock.  So this should really read, unless you are going to spend millions of dollars on our products, then you have to follow our rules.....  Honeslt, someone could make a valid court case over this.......

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09/17/2006 5:47 PM  
Posted By sage_raistlin on 09/17/2006 3:15 PM

Nice, I though there was not to be negative comments made towards members here, normally a mod would have chimmed in on the last 2 lines on this post......
There has been some negativity, but, it hasn't looked to me like anything more than people venting some frustrations.  We may not all be adults, but most of us are, and most of us should have at least reasonably thick skin.

Just because there hasn't been a lock or a warning doesn't mean there aren't eyes on the threads.

As to the subject at hand, there's a lot of debate on most of the major message boards--a lot more activity than is usual on single-issue threads over a weekend.  So, we'll see what the work week brings, and whether anyone gets any information from Wizards.

Until then, everyone please feel free to post away--be mindful of the impact your words can have on others and at the same time try not to over-personalize the comments of frustrated friends (these folks are your friends, right?).



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09/17/2006 5:55 PM  
Posted By Vrecknidj on 09/17/2006 5:47 PM
Posted By sage_raistlin on 09/17/2006 3:15 PM

Nice, I though there was not to be negative comments made towards members here, normally a mod would have chimmed in on the last 2 lines on this post......
There has been some negativity, but, it hasn't looked to me like anything more than people venting some frustrations.  We may not all be adults, but most of us are, and most of us should have at least reasonably thick skin.

Just because there hasn't been a lock or a warning doesn't mean there aren't eyes on the threads.

As to the subject at hand, there's a lot of debate on most of the major message boards--a lot more activity than is usual on single-issue threads over a weekend.  So, we'll see what the work week brings, and whether anyone gets any information from Wizards.

Until then, everyone please feel free to post away--be mindful of the impact your words can have on others and at the same time try not to over-personalize the comments of frustrated friends (these folks are your friends, right?).



Dave


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09/17/2006 7:10 PM  
The thing that bugs me about this is primarily that for a collectible game where to collect a whole set you have to buy 20-30 random boosters, that if they don't expect us to find and get some kind of discount over the per-piece price it's ludicrous.

If you make a collectibe game, youre training you customers to view your product as a commodity. If you want to sell like a boutique, sell like a boutique and drop randomization and chase rares.

If this is new, I wonder if its mainly a side effect of dreamblade. Stores have more reason to complain if they're expected to run $1000 tournaments to benefit WOTC and WOTC does nothing to stem the fact that internet disocunt buying is the only thing that makes sense for a collectible game.

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09/17/2006 9:53 PM  
It's a pretty simple equation for me: if I can't get a decent price on singles on the 'net, I'll buy something else besides WOTC's miniatures.

I'm only interested in getting the figures I want, and have long ago given up buying boosters. I have absolutely zero interest in skirmish and only purchase these things for their value in roleplay and because, yes, they're fun toys.

I may be in the minority, but I'm sure there's a decent chunk of