Gallandv
Sneak
73 Posts
    
Lafayette, La.
 | | 04/30/2007 8:03 AM |
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I must say I have never seen such an outcry in RPG as we see in the announcement of Dragon and Dungeon magazine being canceled. I, like most, remember buying and reading them decades ago but have been most happy with it since Paizo took over its publication. WoTC, as Im sure everyone is aware, is planning on replacing it with an online format that will include a subscription price and likely be online only (no magazine to buy at your local gaming store).
Although there is no way of knowing how good the content or articles are We will have to go on some assumptions here to see what everyones interest in it would be.
**ASSUMPTIONS**
1. It has as good a quality articles as Dragon and Dungeon have been in the past couple of years.
2. It has the same number and quality of color illustrations.
3. It can be downloaded in PDF. (I am aware this may or may not be)
4. It will not be available in printed format so must be printed by you on your computer.
5. It requires a monetary subscription monthly (No way of telling cost so assume $5 to $10)
With the above assumptions in mind how would you vote for your likely interest in this online product. If money is one of the deciding factors please put a cost in a reply you would think fair. | | | |
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Gallandv
Sneak
73 Posts
Lafayette, La.
| | 04/30/2007 8:05 AM |
| | I am not happy about the decision but if the price is right I would be interested if the quality is the same. The right price for me would be about $3. I don't think that price is feasible so I guess I won't be joining. I may join the first month just to see but I will not pay $5 or more for a magaizine they didn't have to pay to publish. | | | |
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oolong
Skirmisher
37 Posts
| | 04/30/2007 8:48 AM |
| No way!!!!Â
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wicked cool
Underboss
2083 Posts
| | 04/30/2007 9:14 AM |
| | i would rather have the magazine as opposed to a online book that i would have to pay for. time will tell. i would say for now no | |
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ransom
Sneak
92 Posts
| | 04/30/2007 9:36 AM |
| | If you assume that the cover price for the magazine "print version" was $6 per issue---with a good % of that getting eaten up by the printing costs---then I agree with Gallandv that the right price should be $3---Right now WOTC is bungling every question put to them--they have no ideas how to make it portable, and right now it looks like you loose everything if you let your subscription run out. I voted "Not At All"......It was the correct decision for WOTC to announce the end of the magazines early--to avoid complications with PAIZO and the printers that are used--but right now WOTC is not doing anything that would bring the loyal customers over to them. For sure I am sticking with PAIZO, although the new Pathfinder is more expensive than Dragon was, it seems to be in line with other magazines on the market right now. | |
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jacksonm
Warlord
5560 Posts
River City
| | 04/30/2007 11:38 AM |
| | Not very for myself. Then again that was the same interest I has in the magazines. They haven't been necessary since TSR/Wizards started pumping out 2-3 rulesbooks every month. | | | |
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Ssylyss
Warrior
178 Posts
| | 04/30/2007 12:51 PM |
| | Being a collector, I like having printed material on my shelf. When I say printed material I mean professional done, not something I printed at home. I'm a current Dungeon subscriber so at this point I will be transitioning to Pathfinder, and if Paizo decides to do a subscription style for their modules I'm on board for that as well. Online content while neat in theory, for me, will never replace professional quality printed material. I voted "not at all" for that reason. | |
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Wolfgang
Commander
3005 Posts
Milton, Ontario Canada
| | 04/30/2007 3:55 PM |
| | on the topic of assuming i have to tell you something my father told me once it goes like this "assume in one hand and crap in the other and see which gets full first" | |
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yack
Commander
3164 Posts
Gatineau Canada
| | 05/01/2007 1:23 PM |
| Being a diehard buyer of Dungeon since issue #81 I have to say I'm hurt and upset over this move.but i have made my view and point open on other threads.
I dislike online download content for gaming. | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10301 Posts
United States
| | 05/02/2007 5:16 PM |
| I game with my kids, mostly, they're 17 through 19. Most of the people I know around that age (and younger--I work at a high school, so I know several) don't read magazines. Many of them treat magazines like I treated encyclopedias when I was their age--as something to use for a research project, maybe.
Kids are online 99 times more often than they use other media (including magazines). WotC has to move in this direction if they want to maintain the distribution of this content. It will take a while, and I'd have preferred if they'd shifted slowly, allowing us to get used to it while keeping the magazines alive for a while, but, it is what it is.
Just two cents.
Oh, and I have had subscriptions to both magazines for years and years and have the same feeling of loss that many of you do.
Dave | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11227 Posts
The Dark and Forbidding Lands of The Necromancer.
| | 05/04/2007 4:29 PM |
| Posted By Vrecknidj on 05/02/2007 5:16 PM
WotC has to move in this direction if they want to maintain the distribution of this content.
Dave
I'm not sure what your point is here Dave? Do you mean control over the product or do you mean that e-content is the only viable option for them now, or something else entirely?
WotC could get along just fine if
the mags were continuing in paper. This is all about maximizing profit.
I have no beef with that because every company wants to maximize
profit. However, Let's not sugarcoat it and try to rationalize this
decision in any other way.
I've heard arguments that paper magazines are going the way of the
dinosaur and yet there's hundreds of paper magazines in stores every
month. So that's a complete crock.
They won't get one thin dime from me. I'm upset that the paper mags are going away and I will not support this DI.
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Wraithborne
Commander
3546 Posts
West Virginia
| | 05/04/2007 7:52 PM |
| I have no plans on supporting it either. I have a few .pdf books and don't much care for them and with table space at a premium, there is just no room for a computer(laptop or otherwise). There is not a chance that I'm going to print them all either. Their website updates have been erratic at best and if that's the level of importance they place on the face of their company to the world, should we really think this will get different treatment? It also seems like this has been very poorly thought out. Kind of a Three Stooges thing going on. *SLAP* Spread out knuckleheads.
Lets address the assumptions above:
1. It has as good a quality articles as Dragon and Dungeon have been in the past couple of years.-----This would be debatable at best.
2. It has the same number and quality of color illustrations.----- I'm a sucker for a good pic as much as anyone, and mayhap i'm in the minority here, but art was always a secondary concern for me.
3. It can be downloaded in PDF. (I am aware this may or may not be)----At current time, If you cancel your subscription you lose everything. Huge downside that may change. Hold your breath at your own risk.
4. It will not be available in printed format so must be printed by you on your computer. -----I believe they mentioned a compilation of some sorts. Most likely it would be expensive and only a "best of" type of thing.
5. It requires a monetary subscription monthly (No way of telling cost so assume $5 to $10)------This is the million dollar question. How much. Personally, I think it would be worth $2-3 a month. At that price, I might even change my mind....but my dollars are safe. I think most likely $10 is more accurate and they will try to justify it with supposed more frequent updates.
As far as Magazines dying and being a thing of the past, I sell a crap-ton of magazines every day despite them being merchandised beside far superior media. | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11227 Posts
The Dark and Forbidding Lands of The Necromancer.
| | 05/05/2007 11:37 AM |
| Posted By Wraithborne on 05/04/2007 7:52 PM
1. It has as good a quality articles as Dragon and Dungeon have been in the past couple of years.-----This would be debatable at best.
Actually, I think the quality can be just as good. Once upon a time these mags were produced inhouse by TSR. There's no reason to believe that inhouse WotC people can't do a similarly good job at the content. Plus, the DI will attract some, maybe a lot more than some, of the freelancers that currently are going to Paizo to have stuff published. I think the quality will be good.
My beef is that WotC's website is a piece of crap. I'm sorry, I can't say it anymore diplomatically than that. It's down all the time. The search function has never worked or worked properly. Based on their track record, how am I supposed to believe that they will handle the DI any differently?
My problem is not with the concept of e-magazines, it's e-mags at the expense of print mags that I am angered about.
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Ghendar - Now with 51% more snark
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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berus316
Sergeant
632 Posts
Markham, Ontario Canada
| | 05/05/2007 8:02 PM |
| I can see why they want to go online.... easy to get a *lot* of people to have a look at it.
I've paid for online content before, stopped after a while.
I will likely subscribe for a while as well. Until the pirates make it too easy for follow suit.
Paizo is getting my money for a while for Pathfinder and I'm kinda pissed about that.
But you know, it might be great... | |
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Fun Guy from Yuggoth
Cthulhufnord
Warlord
10807 Posts
Umass Amherst Baby!
| | 05/05/2007 9:04 PM |
| | If they changed the content to include non-D20 rpgs as well I'd be interested. I miss the days of gaming mags that had a broader focus. | |
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lingster
Sergeant
778 Posts
| | 05/07/2007 9:05 AM |
| I think the poll says it all.
One person is looking forward to it, the rest are against it. Only 6 of those are mixed on the idea (all of this as I post)
Pretty Sad Really.
What's next? Virtual D&D minis?
No Stat Cards come in the box anymore? gotta print them out yourself?? | |
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Nobody Important
Sergeant
718 Posts
| | 05/07/2007 4:37 PM |
| I remember filling out the survey at Wizards on this topic. I had said I may be interested in seeing this but not at any significant cost. Perhaps the worst thing about filling out that survey was that I did it with the assumption that the "standard" Dungeon and Dragon magazines would still be around.
I guess the writing was on the wall a year ago when Piazo ended multi-year subscriptions for the magazines. At the time they said it was to maintain the annual subscription rate but I've noticed that an one year subscription after that time will run out when the publishing run ends. My carry over gets me 5/6 of the way through a Pathfinder arc so I'll look at that. Wizards had better do a VERY good job letting us know what we'd get for buying the online product but I have very little interest in it.
I almost am happy Dungeon and Dragon are ending. They are what kept me in the game for the past decade but without them I won't feel so bad for not getting into 4th ed. when it comes out. No RPG may mean more $$$ for minis but even that is begining to lose its luster.
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3858 Posts
Adelaide
| | 05/07/2007 4:48 PM |
| For me it also depends on what TCP/DRM (digital copyright proectection stuff) it includes.
No good having content if it isnt useable in multidte of ways. Too many online mags are more restrictive than print.
~
I also miss the multi game content of mags.
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"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7146 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 05/07/2007 4:53 PM |
| Not really. If they do a yearly compilation, I would, of course, be interested. But only if it was good.
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11227 Posts
The Dark and Forbidding Lands of The Necromancer.
| | 05/08/2007 1:00 PM |
| Posted By Teflon Jeff on 05/07/2007 4:53 PM
Not really. If they do a yearly compilation, I would, of course, be interested. But only if it was good.
The problem with a yearly compilation is that it would only contain a fraction of the online content. It would be a "best of" type of product. I would still be missing all the online stuff that didn't make it into the comp. One the other hand, right now with a monthly paper product that I purchase every month, I get everything. There's no need for me to purchase a yearly compilation.
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Ghendar - Now with 51% more snark
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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Custom Title
WakeXX
Warlord
10131 Posts
Edinboro PA
| | 05/08/2007 9:03 PM |
| | Not all all here, I liked reading through Dungeon mostly just to check out the adventure concepts and never really usued them in games. I never really cared for Dragon. | | | |
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bw
Warrior
249 Posts
Baton Rouge, LA
| | 05/09/2007 9:09 AM |
| I have been collecting, off and on, Dragon since I started playing in 1983, i also have a number of Dungeon Mags too. I still remember going on trips with the parents and reading these in the back seat of our station wagon.
I have a whole section of my 'office/game room' dedicated to these mags.
I usually grab one and read an article or so and bring it around with me. I don't see myself printing out articles and putting them in a binder and carrying around a binder. That will be too akward, escpecilly in my 'private' reading center. ;P
If they wanted to get some online coverage, then have 2 issues, one on line and one in print. They could have the same content. 3 Pricing schemes, 1 for print, 1 for digital, 1 for both. That would have made everyone happy it seems. | |
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JohnnyFive
Warrior
207 Posts
| | 05/10/2007 3:45 PM |
| I don't know if I'll support the online content that much, personally. I'd only sporadically purchase an issue of Dungeon or Dragon if they had a feat/class/adventure that was interesting for me personally. I'm not sure a change in format will really make me any more willing to pay for things I won't use.  | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
9044 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 05/12/2007 2:12 AM |
| | Not at all. I'm not gonna bring a friggin laptop with me to do some toilet reading, but I'll do that with a magazine. | |
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TLorin
Sneak
80 Posts
Madison, TN
| | 05/16/2007 7:26 AM |
| I'm hugely interested in the Digital Initiative from a tools standpoint, but much less so for online magazines. I believe we need good character/npc/monster creation tools (random and non-random), wandering monster generators, 1-inch battlemat mappers, campaign planners and the like more than we need elctronic articles, and I'd gladly pay $10-$15 a month for a very robust toolset (this would include at a minimum an E-tools level program that outputs in the new stat block format, some sort of mapping program, and a huge set of random generators).  I think when I filled out the online survey at Wizards I said I loved the idea at your typical MMOG monthly price.Â
Online articles and adventures should be a value-add for purchasing a general subscription to the DI, such as the value-added media for shows like Lost, Heroes as well as the articles/maps/monsters already appearing at Wizards, not as a separate income stream. However, if they use the technology available to make this content interactive, for example having adventures with detailed maps where you simply mouseover to see a general description and contents of an encounter and a left-click brings up the entire encounter with expanded map, statted creatures and random treasure button, that might be a different story. Add even more interactivity, such as showing a digital representation of the exact treasure horde, with rune-laden swords, random art objects, and other miscellany, and I'd be hooked. (all this interactivity should also be available in my homebrew toolset) If Wizards is going to move the content of these magazines online, they should at least use the medium to its fullest and not simply be content with publishing PDFs. (I for one would love Dungeon's '100 random things' lists made into random generators)
Wizards has an opportunity to hit this out of the park for me. I for one would gladly bring a laptop to the table if it could replace most of my books, papers, notes with a set of tools as integrated as Microsoft's Office suite. I wish their slogan (and thus their strategy) would simply be: 'Gaming Made Easy'
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