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| | Author | Messages | |
Sean-Khan
Commander
2723 Posts
    
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 07/04/2007 3:58 AM |
| | I'm not sure about selling singles. Stores might end their online markets, but for those that continue with it, I don't see how this would apply. Single sales are independent of the actual products, so I'm not 100% sure that this would apply. I'm not a lawyer, so my understanding could be faulty, but since WOTC doesn't recognize or even participate in this market, I don't see how they could regulate it like they could with an online store discounting boosters or cases heavily. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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Shottglazz
Underboss
1139 Posts
Quinte West, Ontario, Canada
| | 07/04/2007 4:55 AM |
| | I don't believe the singles market will be affected at all. WotC has long stated that they do not recognize or support the secondary market for their products. Selling minis in any form other than boosters, cases or starters (or icons) would be the secondary market. It would be impossible for them to enforce pricing for a market they do not officially recognize. | |
Shottglazz
"Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand;
I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me."
Completed trades ( 51 ): Pikel, Darrell x2, JeffDHarvey, BiggPappa001, Ghendar, Valinrook X2, Wolfgang x4, Wraithborne x6, Mr Ruffles, Anothermullen, CKissee x3, Browns_Scoundrel, Kyrin, GuJiaXian x2, Tyngfumv, Basic_Aim, Mickey Mouse, Berus316, Crisisman, Zoons, Rockfrd, Sterling40 x2, Brucemc, 2007 Magical Mystery Trade, Redskullz x2, Stephengroy, Lyus_Sleyden, Foolforthought, 2008 Magical Mystery Trade, Kilsek x4, Generic Fighter, Auric, Relientkitten
Pending trades ( 2 ): relientKitten x2
WotC trades ( 1 ): Red_Deceiver
Bad trades ( 2 ): LeftEyeofGruumsh, Yotebeth | |
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Sean-Khan
Commander
2723 Posts
| | 
Custom Title
WakeXX
Warlord
10152 Posts
Edinboro PA
| | 07/04/2007 1:24 PM |
| | Interesting... | | | |
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Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 07/04/2007 1:43 PM |
| Hmmm... E-Commerce was the only way I could get packs and cases. I was not willing to make a 2 hour drive to get packs, it's not realistic for me, especially since the only people that played DDM in my area in Palatka Florida, happened to be 3 hours south of me. So... drive 2 hours west to get packs, or drive 3 hours south to get a minis game going... Nope, I don't think so and that's why I will always back the E-Commerce. Brick and Mortar will have to adapt to survive, or they fall. Doesn't matter, it's all about business and getting the product to those who want it. There's places in Arizona (drove through there) where the next town is 100 miles. In Texas, the same. Yet, I know this as well, What is the DDM market like in Phoenix? Tucson? Flagstaff? If you look for stores, you will find more gamesworkshop dealers than anything else. I had looked, I didn't find a single supplier that dealt with DDM in Arizona, instead in a shiny mall in Phoenix, I found an official games workshop store. | |
Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai.  I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12482 Posts
The G Spot
| | 07/04/2007 2:32 PM |
| | And yet huge retail giants have caused the decline of the smaller independent mom & pop stores. No one seems to care much about that though. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12482 Posts
The G Spot
| | 07/04/2007 2:33 PM |
| Posted By Kaya Kenobi on 07/04/2007 1:43 PM Brick and Mortar will have to adapt to survive, or they fall.
| |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM | |
| Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6810 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 07/04/2007 2:40 PM |
| | I don't care what studies show about what people are willing to pay. I know what I am willing to pay, and if they enforce these rules then I will be reconsidering if I want to buy D&D products. I play in three groups, and my spending habits and opinions affect the purchases of those I play with. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 07/04/2007 2:52 PM |
| Posted By Corim Danex on 07/04/2007 2:40 PM
I don't care what studies show about what people are willing to pay. I know what I am willing to pay, and if they enforce these rules then I will be reconsidering if I want to buy D&D products. I play in three groups, and my spending habits and opinions affect the purchases of those I play with.
Yeah... I pretty much stopped buying DnD after Aberrations, and traded for Angelfire. Deathknell was a fluke, I was given 5 cases of that set. Then...
I just play DnD now, because the prices of DDM is too high and I'm too far behind now. I still have like 5 Displacer Beasts, 3 LSDs, and 3 of each set from Harbinger to Archfiends. | |
Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai. I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 07/04/2007 4:29 PM |
| At least it's only illegal in the states 
Its a long article, still wading through it though it seems to start quite fully on the side of the good full price retailers and against teh evil internet online shops.
And it doesn't seem like a far jump from arranging a fixed price, to raising that fixed shop. I'm sure retail shops would be even more viable if it was decided to sell for an extra 33% et el.
I'd disagree with the "If the retail tier dies, we loose diversity" as most gaming shops only stick a half dozen game systems if that, compared with online places that supports 1000's of indie games.
Lots of scare tactics about cost of overseas purchasing - bah.
Dislike the assumptions of that this will make friendly gaming stores appear everywhere, while those who don't have one, pay the price for those who do.
If it makes volume discount (ie buying by the case) no cheaper than buying by the booster, than I'd be spending less. Ecepting singles, I buy more from my local shop than onlibe anyway, so if prices go up, I buy less, and players then need buy less.
| |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Custom Title
WakeXX
Warlord
10152 Posts
Edinboro PA
| | 07/04/2007 4:59 PM |
| | I don't agree with this at all. I don't even play DDM at Brick and Mortar stores except at prereleases (where I pay the tournament entry fee they set which is fine). I preordered 2 cases of Night Below from a local gaming store at $120 each,he gets them for $102. That's $36 or so profit for just adding 2 cases to his order from the distributor and handing them to me. | | | |
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Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 07/04/2007 7:22 PM |
| Posted By WakeXX on 07/04/2007 4:59 PM
I don't agree with this at all. I don't even play DDM at Brick and Mortar stores except at prereleases (where I pay the tournament entry fee they set which is fine). I preordered 2 cases of Night Below from a local gaming store at $120 each,he gets them for $102. That's $36 or so profit for just adding 2 cases to his order from the distributor and handing them to me.
120 a case?
No... He's lying about the distribution, unless the cost of packs went up again to an ungodly amount. The cases shouldn't cost more than 70-80 to the stores.
I remember when Aberrations was 80-90 a case, I was willing to pay that price. My recollections is that the ones that get cases in large amounts gets a discount, and what Gameoutfitters said is that the cases costed them 38 a case. I used to run a business, and my products I ordered (A multilock actually costs 40 dollars, and is then sold for 80) went with the rule of doubling. If your store is getting a case for 102, then he needs to find another distributor.
As for the rule on gaming stores, yeah, they rarely ever carry anything, and then on top of that, none of the gaming stores, not even the ones here, trades or even sells single minis (I'm talking San Francisco, Oakland, and San Jose). Yes, I know because I called. | |
Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai. I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 07/04/2007 7:49 PM |
| Posted By Ghendar on 07/04/2007 2:32 PM
And yet huge retail giants have caused the decline of the smaller independent mom & pop stores. No one seems to care much about that though.
Well, this seems to address that as well. From the article:
"Plus, those minimum price agreements just got legal for the
publishers to enforce on the mass market guys too. And they’ve got
even less reason to allow the mass market to discount than they do the
e-commerce guys." | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
|
Custom Title
WakeXX
Warlord
10152 Posts
Edinboro PA
| | 07/04/2007 8:37 PM |
| Posted By Kaya Kenobi on 07/04/2007 7:22 PM Posted By WakeXX on 07/04/2007 4:59 PM
I don't agree with this at all. I don't even play DDM at Brick and Mortar stores except at prereleases (where I pay the tournament entry fee they set which is fine). I preordered 2 cases of Night Below from a local gaming store at $120 each,he gets them for $102. That's $36 or so profit for just adding 2 cases to his order from the distributor and handing them to me. 120 a case? No... He's lying about the distribution, unless the cost of packs went up again to an ungodly amount. The cases shouldn't cost more than 70-80 to the stores. I remember when Aberrations was 80-90 a case, I was willing to pay that price. My recollections is that the ones that get cases in large amounts gets a discount, and what Gameoutfitters said is that the cases costed them 38 a case. I used to run a business, and my products I ordered (A multilock actually costs 40 dollars, and is then sold for 80) went with the rule of doubling. If your store is getting a case for 102, then he needs to find another distributor. As for the rule on gaming stores, yeah, they rarely ever carry anything, and then on top of that, none of the gaming stores, not even the ones here, trades or even sells single minis (I'm talking San Francisco, Oakland, and San Jose). Yes, I know because I called.
I've seen the invoices so he isn't lying. he really only purchases like 2 or 3 cases besides what I order, It's a local gaming store in a small town. MSRP is now $14.99 which is about $180 a case, so I don't mind paying $120, gameoutfitter would charge $208.56 plus shipping so I'm only paying slightly more than if I purchased from there. He doesn't sell single minis either, none of the stores around here do...though there is one in Pittsburgh,about 2 hrs away that does. | | | |
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Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 07/05/2007 12:14 AM |
| Posted By WakeXX on 07/04/2007 8:37 PM Posted By Kaya Kenobi on 07/04/2007 7:22 PM Posted By WakeXX on 07/04/2007 4:59 PM
I don't agree with this at all. I don't even play DDM at Brick and Mortar stores except at prereleases (where I pay the tournament entry fee they set which is fine). I preordered 2 cases of Night Below from a local gaming store at $120 each,he gets them for $102. That's $36 or so profit for just adding 2 cases to his order from the distributor and handing them to me. 120 a case? No... He's lying about the distribution, unless the cost of packs went up again to an ungodly amount. The cases shouldn't cost more than 70-80 to the stores. I remember when Aberrations was 80-90 a case, I was willing to pay that price. My recollections is that the ones that get cases in large amounts gets a discount, and what Gameoutfitters said is that the cases costed them 38 a case. I used to run a business, and my products I ordered (A multilock actually costs 40 dollars, and is then sold for 80) went with the rule of doubling. If your store is getting a case for 102, then he needs to find another distributor. As for the rule on gaming stores, yeah, they rarely ever carry anything, and then on top of that, none of the gaming stores, not even the ones here, trades or even sells single minis (I'm talking San Francisco, Oakland, and San Jose). Yes, I know because I called. I've seen the invoices so he isn't lying. he really only purchases like 2 or 3 cases besides what I order, It's a local gaming store in a small town. MSRP is now $14.99 which is about $180 a case, so I don't mind paying $120, gameoutfitter would charge $208.56 plus shipping so I'm only paying slightly more than if I purchased from there. He doesn't sell single minis either, none of the stores around here do...though there is one in Pittsburgh,about 2 hrs away that does.
I guess that's the real issue, he doesn't doo much selling em at all... Ouch. 14.99 is much too high for me to even consider getting back into the game. After selling 64 minis on eBay, I will top around 600 dollars, which will pay my rent off and I can take it easy for a couple of weeks. 14.99 is much too high, much too high. And this is coming from an old hard core gamer that bought 8 cases of harbinger when it came out. | |
Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai. I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10446 Posts
United States
| | 07/05/2007 4:20 AM |
| "After today’s ruling, each such agreement will be considered on its own merits, and where it can be shown that such an agreement does not limit the market’s ability to set fair prices for comparable goods, such agreements will be legal and enforceable."
I don't see how there are enough lawyers, even in the US where they grow on trees, to keep up with "each such agreement will be considered on its own merits." There are a helluva lot of retailers in the US.
I don't see a problem because it's unenforceable.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 07/05/2007 12:16 PM |
| Posted By Vrecknidj on 07/05/2007 4:20 AM
"After today’s ruling, each such agreement will be considered on its own merits, and where it can be shown that such an agreement does not limit the market’s ability to set fair prices for comparable goods, such agreements will be legal and enforceable."
I don't see how there are enough lawyers, even in the US where they grow on trees, to keep up with "each such agreement will be considered on its own merits." There are a helluva lot of retailers in the US.
I don't see a problem because it's unenforceable.
Dave
The main issue is that it can't be enforced. It's an empty threat because to go after one, means that it will backfire on WotC because it would make a martyr out of one company. So what if I can get a case cheaper at one place, I'll go there.. Sides, WotC lost my support for DDM when they raised their prices the first time on DDM. Price was the reason why I dropped out of Magic too. That, and the fact most brick and mortar stores only sell what they feel like selling and screw everyone else. | |
Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai. I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7675 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 07/06/2007 11:08 AM |
| | I'm very excited about this. All the talk about adapt or die for B&M stores is crap. They have an overhead for customer play space. Are you saying they should have a $5 cover charge to get in the door? Or just to play a game? This let's a company retain the ability to control their own market. I'm more interested to see how this goes for other retail lines. As RD says, this is one small drop in the flood. Change is coming. | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 07/06/2007 11:29 AM |
| Posted By Teflon Jeff on 07/06/2007 11:08 AM
I'm very excited about this. All the talk about adapt or die for B&M stores is crap. They have an overhead for customer play space. Are you saying they should have a $5 cover charge to get in the door? Or just to play a game? This let's a company retain the ability to control their own market. I'm more interested to see how this goes for other retail lines. As RD says, this is one small drop in the flood. Change is coming.
They do charge to play... Everywhere I have seen, they require you to buy at least a pack so you're not "loitering" in the store. Tournaments, even ones without prizes unless donated by players (I have been a donator) cost entry fees. All these tournament kits... bah... such a joke. One way or another, B&M stores do charge. On top of that, many of these B&M stores have websites selling miniatures, cards, as packs or cases. Look up Mega Comics, Collusseum of Comics, Jester's, etc... A lot of the bigger stores do have online listings to sell online too. | |
Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai. I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 07/06/2007 1:12 PM |
| | Yes, but that's not everywhere. I've seen some stores charge and others don't. It all depends on the store. The networking that can happen at a store is amazing. You may scoff at it, but showing people games before they have to plunk down $40-$100 (and here I'm talking about more than ROG, but card games, board games, etc) does increase sales and generates repeat customers. I've personally seen many non-gamers, who came into a store on a lark leave with product for themselves or others because they saw a game played for the first time, something that no internet store can do. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
| 
Fun Guy from Yuggoth
Cthulhufnord
Warlord
11004 Posts
Umass Amherst Baby!
| | 07/06/2007 11:31 PM |
| | 'tarnation, I want my internet and roleplaying Goverment free Darn it! | |
Pathetic Earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void - without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe - anything at all - you would have hidden from it in terror. | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7675 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 07/08/2007 12:14 AM |
| | The funny thing is, this is removing the government from it a bit. Now, if someone sells your product at a price you don't like, you don't have to keep selling it to them. | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5104 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 07/08/2007 1:50 AM |
| I fail to see how this will ultimately ever help BaM stores. Legally, Hasbro can cut a deal with Amazon (just using one of many possibilities) to allow Amazon to continue selling Hasbro products at ~34% off (since Amazon has both name recognition + volume of sales). End result is that trusts are formed (two big companies scratching each others' backs) while small retailers (who don't have enough "selling potential" to negotiate discount options with the publisher) are even more severely undercut by whichever companies are able to sign the best price-enforcement deals. How does this help "full service" retailers?
Virtually any trust-building legistlation tends to bolster large corporations and damage small business. This appears to be more of the same.
Rather than asking companies to build a better product, we're telling them to set their own prices (regardless of quality) and that anyone who offers a discount on the product will lose their retail account? Higher prices at lower quality. Oh, joy.  | |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
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Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 07/08/2007 1:50 AM |
| Posted By gss_000 on 07/06/2007 1:12 PM
Yes, but that's not everywhere. I've seen some stores charge and others don't. It all depends on the store. The networking that can happen at a store is amazing. You may scoff at it, but showing people games before they have to plunk down $40-$100 (and here I'm talking about more than ROG, but card games, board games, etc) does increase sales and generates repeat customers. I've personally seen many non-gamers, who came into a store on a lark leave with product for themselves or others because they saw a game played for the first time, something that no internet store can do.
And that's very well true. However, if the B&M stores don't do that, then they lose out. They can also play the game that the online stores do to attract large buyers like me. When I played DDM, I would buy 5-6 cases at a time for myself. At first Mega Comics scoffed at me, but later, Aberrations and Deathknell, I bought from them at a slightly higher price of 90 per case instead of 80. I still got my cases, but this time I got em from Mega Comics, and not Game Outfitters. I would be more willing to pay an affordable price period, than to pay full price. I feel that if I have 500 dollars to blow at once, I should get a slight discount, which is what I got from Mega Comics. | |
Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai. I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 07/08/2007 11:41 AM |
| Right, but I often see people willing to support stores that don't give them the best price. I have personally told people of stores that sold a product that I knew they bought at a lower price and they said, "But I buy it from store x and I want to continue supporting them." Gamers, more than a lot of other groups, will take higher prices to support local businesses.
I fail to see how this will ultimately ever help BaM stores
It means that new stores can open their doors without feeling they need to lose profits to compete with online stores (a new store in my area is selling everything at a lower price than it wants because of online stores, and this info is directly from the owner's mouth). It means that existing stores may sell even a few more of each product because the difference in price isn't worth going to an outside source, and that could mean it's worth carrying an item that otherwise would be a waste of space, and thereby increase the range of products carried. It may also mean, and this is very optimistic, it could mean you see just gaming stores again, instead of gaming/comics/sports/toys/etc stores.
From what I can see, this doesn't eliminate discounts. It would just regulate the "outrageous" discounts given by online stores. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
|
Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5104 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 07/08/2007 1:12 PM |
| Posted By gss_000 on 07/08/2007 11:41 AM
From what I can see, this doesn't eliminate discounts. It would just regulate the "outrageous" discounts given by online stores. And opens the door for trust agreements which do nothing but screw over smaller businesses.
Doesn't matter how you spin it, it still reeks of big-business collusion at the expense of both small business and customers.
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Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 07/08/2007 6:05 PM |
| | What? All the small business have closed down already because there was no law like this. This may have problems in other industries, but for the gaming industry at least they have a vested interest in not making agreements to screw small business over. Those small businesses generate trust networks that generates a lot more business than any big business. WOTC especially has systems in place to help the stores, not hurt them (check out the Delegate program). They aren't going to make deals that destroys that. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
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Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7675 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 07/09/2007 9:12 AM |
| Posted By zenthrus on 07/08/2007 1:12 PM Posted By gss_000 on 07/08/2007 11:41 AM
From what I can see, this doesn't eliminate discounts. It would just regulate the "outrageous" discounts given by online stores. And opens the door for trust agreements which do nothing but screw over smaller businesses. Doesn't matter how you spin it, it still reeks of big-business collusion at the expense of both small business and customers.
Sure, there's the potential for that. But someone could easily fight that AS collusion. Furthermore, WotC and WizKids both sho a strong desire to have the B&M stores do well. It's in their best interests. So I would betit ends up helping B&M, but to what extent remains to be seen.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 07/23/2007 4:07 PM |
| What I dislike is that to me, it means there would be no requirement for B&M stores to encourage play, table space etc.
The closest shop might be an unfriendly store, who doesnt allow anything to be played insde, and they benefit from the 'price fixing' the same as a store that spends the money to allow table/gaming space etc.
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"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 07/23/2007 7:11 PM |
| | Well, there was never anything to encourage play to begin with, but it makes a lot of sense for stores to have areas like that. Anything that promotes trade, meeting up, etc is very good for the stores. Even with the price fixing, gaming stores aren't the best ways to make money quick. It's not like this rule will make bad stores succeed automatically. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 07/24/2007 4:15 PM |
| | But the idea, or more accuratly the blog about it, seemed to focus that the brick n mortor stores need the proce fixing as they do all these wonderful things that online only stores dont, so they need the price fixing to even it out. | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7675 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 07/24/2007 5:23 PM |
| I think that they are trying to say that the stores that do those things need the help. Of course, there are stores that don't, but it should help the ones that do. Typically, given the choice between the two (assuming you have the luxury) you would choose the one that does promote those things. And with Price floors, it helps level one more playing field to make the store with the better service more successful. Will that work in every instance? No some people only have 1 store (or less), but it does ensure that every customer will be paying the same price (hopefully)
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Wraithborne
Commander
4531 Posts
The Red Light District
| | 07/26/2007 7:46 AM |
| | Way too much for me to read and process this early....All I know is that if I can't get minis for what I can get them now (~110/case), then I won't be getting anymore minis. | |
Eye dun no why youse guys think im not relly a person im jimgang from canada but im moving to cali as soon as i get a master card
-Jimgang
May I mambo dogface in the banana patch?
-Steve Martin | |
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portermj
Warrior
328 Posts
| | 07/26/2007 9:20 PM |
| So people have figured out how to get a good to people cheaper and the court is stepping in to restrict it? I'm not too worried about it. WOTC makes the same on their end no matter how much I pay for a case. If a price bump on the retail side would cause people to buy fewer units, even if they spend as much, WOTC has been hit with a loss. Honestly, if hobby stores can't figure out how to make a profit without price fixing they deserve to go out of business. They would be a business model that became obsolete. | |
Do you like games John?
Absolutely! | |
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Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 07/26/2007 10:56 PM |
| Ripped from the site, and I agree:
"Of course, this ruling is only one leg up for the retailers. They need to start getting on with the program and evolve if they want to survive. They need to stop sitting on their butts and ignoring customers. They need to start cleaning their bathrooms. They need to start getting organized with organized play and with in-house gaming. They need to sell all that crap sitting on their shelves, at a loss if need be, and stock games that will sell. They need to educate themselves about all the different games out there that they could sell other than the ones they and their friends like to play. They need to do all sorts of things."
.....if they need to do all these other things, regardless of price floors, then it would seem to me, that there are alternative ways to get customers into a brick and mortar store w/ out affecting retail all across the US. maybe they could advertise a little bit. maybe the industry should wake up and realize that young kids aren't as into card games as they are video games. why would i want to wander to a store to manually shuffle cards and listen to a bunch of high pitched squealing when i could simply turn on my respective gaming machine, jump online, and find friendly opponents in minutes?....all from the comfort of my home.
sometimes industries get to be archaic and should simply be waved bye to. trying to reverse the internet and thinking it is going to bring people to a store is non-sense. all the educating, and hypothesizing will do nothing to change the fact that this is no longer a tabletop, D&D age. This is the age of 10mB connections and $500 gaming consoles. there are national gaming leagues, but the last i checked, none of them play card games, they are all video games.
i love my warhammer, but blaming online discounters for a dying pastime isn't going to bring it back. since we are a highly xenophobic society these days, there are a million reasons kids/adults/others don't show up to card stores, the least of which is that creepy uncle playing in there w/ the 11 year olds. what is up w/ that? as an adult you should have your own networking skills, and not have to depend on a B&M store to keep YOUR hobby alive. be a CCG activist instead of simply playing the game, and maybe you can actually get people to bring their own sodapop to your home game.
BTW, i host poker games once a week, and I provide food & drinks and background entertainment (TV), and it is great fun. in fact, people have so much fun, that i routinely have to add a table or 2 and bring in more dealers, and i even get people wanting to contribute on their own. i guess they want to see something succeed too, instead of waiting for the publisher/wholesaler/distributor/retailer to do it for them. it is called grass roots activism. if you think that the B&M store is really looking out for you, the gamer, then no wonder it is dying form of entertainment.
Let it go................people will find a way to sell stuff at a major discount anyway. it won't stop, and the archaic industry that is tabletop gaming will continue to die. it isn't the law's fault. | |
Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai. I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
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MuscledDestroyer
Sergeant
435 Posts
Prospect Park, Pa
| | 07/28/2007 8:12 AM |
| | Bad decision ;should have left it alone. What about cars? | |
Champion of Grape Juice. Its delicious. | |
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5104 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 07/28/2007 10:21 AM |
| Posted By MuscledDestroyer on 07/28/2007 8:12 AM
Bad decision ;should have left it alone. What about cars? Car manufacturers would be somewhat insane to attempt to enforce MSRP since that would put most dealers out of business.
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Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
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Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7675 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 07/28/2007 9:51 PM |
| Posted By zenthrus on 07/28/2007 10:21 AM Posted By MuscledDestroyer on 07/28/2007 8:12 AM
Bad decision ;should have left it alone. What about cars? Car manufacturers would be somewhat insane to attempt to enforce MSRP since that would put most dealers out of business.
They've already tried it, remember the bout of "employee priced" cars? That was an attempt to eliminate haggling. But in reality, they need only wait. The modern generation knows little about haggling, they've been trained to just accept the sticker price.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12482 Posts
The G Spot
| | 07/29/2007 11:09 AM |
| Posted By Teflon Jeff on 07/28/2007 9:51 PM Posted By zenthrus on 07/28/2007 10:21 AM Posted By MuscledDestroyer on 07/28/2007 8:12 AM
Bad decision ;should have left it alone. What about cars? Car manufacturers would be somewhat insane to attempt to enforce MSRP since that would put most dealers out of business. They've already tried it, remember the bout of "employee priced" cars? That was an attempt to eliminate haggling. But in reality, they need only wait. The modern generation knows little about haggling, they've been trained to just accept the sticker price.
Doesn't Saturn still have a no haggle policy? They've done quite well with it.
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WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
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