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Subject: Product info & rules up!

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Sean-Khan
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10/12/2006 11:22 AM  
No comments yet, just starting to read myself

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/article/starshipbattles

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New Britain, CT

10/12/2006 2:37 PM  
Man that looks sweet!

I'll buy the starter and a few boosters.

Apparently there aren't many Star Wars mini's fans in CT or I'd buy a lot more. I bought two cases of Rebel Storm when it came out and couldn't find any players. (Now listed in my H/W if anyone has DDM to trade.)

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the_captain
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10/12/2006 3:15 PM  
Hmm... no Rebel, Imperial, Republic, or Seperatist factions... just Light Side vs. Dark Side as the only two factions regardless of era? And you can't fight against the same faction? LAME! That means I would have to bring two tier 1 fleets to a tournament, just incase me and my opponent wanted to use the same faction. I hope this is just for Quick Start and not normal rules. Other than that the game rules are very interesting.


Kithmaker
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10/12/2006 3:33 PM  
Looks rather disappointing. Not only the limited factions, but the classifictation of ships is a bit wonky. Slave I is a starfighter, and therefore should be Class 4. I wonder what else ended up shifted one category in either direction.
The grid looks WAY too small for a decent battle, too -- a starfighter can cross it in like 2 turns.

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Sean-Khan
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10/12/2006 10:34 PM  
I'm having fixed feelings. The stat card looks horrible! Minis themselves look cool (SWM frontpage), like AAM fighters - so I guess there's something of value for the sum.

About factions - Axis & allies is also 2-faction game. Still, most people don't use Japanese and German units together. You'll just have to play the game right I understand these factions, as the minis aren't cheap; This way you can easily collect forces to your fleet if you don't care about eras.

Rules sound fun, but I guess I'll still have to dummy-test them when we get more units previewed. Still more interested about AAM:War at Sea.

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Luisjoey
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Caracas Venezuela

10/13/2006 8:25 AM  
I´m really happy to read the rules, the game looks like a lot to A&A with the turn system and simultaneous damage; The system tries to be fast paced in comparison to the RPG game (really fast paced) with 3 or 4 turns you could see the results (making me think about Turns of 1 or more minutes in game terms).

The stat cards look really awful hope them to improve, and i´m really disapointed about the light side dark side factions, i hope this would be corrected because i would hate TIER 1 Warbands with Vong imperial Separatist! that takes part of the emotion created in SW minis to the game.

I wait to see how is the game, the pieces seems pretty nice to me! for collector it satisfy me and my RPG needs




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Omand
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Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

10/18/2006 8:17 PM  
Well, I have had a bit of time to absorb things.  I am wondering if these are all of the rules, including an abstract of the advanced rules.  Then again, the commander effects are not well explained and we do not have a glossary on line yet.

Interesting, but I want to know more (and see more pictures).

Cheers

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XAos
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London

10/19/2006 2:26 AM  
As you say, we are clearly missing the a full list of the commander effects (which may differ by ship class)
And no glossary, which is usually the most important half of the rules.
Looks like we have the "introductory rules" with just enough of the main rulebook to clarify the whole turn sequence.
Be interesting to see what the DCI floor rules list as victory conditions. Will the tournament game have something eqivalent to "Assault points".

My current guess on multi-sided games is (1) You get full command points to use against each opposing player. (2) adjascent players should start as allies (thats non-transitive) i.e. player 2 is the ally of players 1 & 3 but players 1 & 3 are enemies of each other. Thats to avoid everyone taking the "cheap-shot" into adjascent ships side/rear defense.

Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything.

Sean-Khan
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10/19/2006 2:38 AM  
Posted By WotC_Rob 10/18/2006 at WotC boards

15 of the 40 pages of the rulebook were posted. The 15 pages embody the core rules of the game. Layers of complexity are added with special abilities and fleet command options.

There are three principal designers listed for the game, Ryan Miller, Bill Slavicsek, and myself. Bill mostly made "big ticket" decisions like the use of the square grid (makes the game more accessible to casual/younger players), d20 (Ryan would have loved to use d6s!), etc. Ryan is a talented game designer, and I empowered him to lead the initial design team so that his ideas would definitely be heard and represented in the game. Many different initiative and combat systems were hashed out and playtested. Eventually we distilled the rules down to where they are now. We certainly tried Star Wars Miniatures style initiative and combat systems, we also tried pulsed segments where the ships moved and fired (and resolved damage) in size class order, etc. With three very different designers involved in the project, the final product is an amalgam of a myriad different ideas, inspirations, and ideologies.

I was fortunate to have input and playtesting from Richard Garfield (designer of Magic the Gathering), Frank Gilson (Star Fleet Battles Gold Hat champion), and Jonathan Tweet (designer of Dreamblade). They've all had their impact on the game and improved various aspects of it. Did we end up with a game for everyone? No. That would be impossible. Did we end up with a game that we enjoy playing? Definitely. The look and feel of the game is considerably different from what you will experience with Star Wars Miniatures.

We wanted a fast paced game that felt like Star Wars. Lots of people have pushed their Star Wars toys around and fought imaginary battles in their heads. We've merely provided a common set of rules for people to use. The key essence is that you get to push around Star Wars ships and blow the opposition into bits. It is pretty darn cool to have an X-Wing fight its way through a cordon of TIE fighters, launch a proton torpedo at a capital ship, and manage to deliver a crippling blow. It's even better if the X-Wing manages to survive that torpedo run...

There are certainly reasons to move capital ships. Building up a bigger wave of fighters is one reason. Bringing limited arc weapons to bear (which are generally stronger than 360 degree weapons) is another. Getting away from fighters is important at times. Getting to fighters can be important. Turning a stronger shield toward the enemy may be crucial. Etc.

A couple of examples of special abilities and Fleet Commander options:

broadside: Some weapon systems can attack only enemies to the ship's side. A broadside is as wide as the ship's space on that side and extends across the stellar grid from that ship.

A ship that has enemies to each of its sides can make one broadside attack per side during the attack phase (maximum two broadside attacks).

Fly Casual: (Command, class 3) When a class 3 ship would be hit by an attack, that attack is instead treated as a miss. This Fleet Commander option affects only one potential hit against one ship. You can decide whether to use this option after seeing the result of an attack roll.

You've seen much of the game. But you haven't seen everything yet. Will you like the game? I hope so!

Rob
Some more clarifications


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Luisjoey
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Caracas Venezuela

10/19/2006 12:08 PM  
I´m still waiting for the full rulebook to think about the playability of the game

Does the ships have a range for attack?

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Ghengis Ska
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10/23/2006 10:40 AM  
From what i have heard this may not be a one shot, and like the Characters Minis game if this sells well we could see more releases with more factions.

Right now it is a one shot (like Rebel Strom was a one shot) and if the sales are good there is talk they will make another set. And like they did with Rebel Storm they are putting out some of the most classically iconic ships from the Movies for the one shot, and if it does well then we may see the Vong or other factions (Happan, Smugglers Alliance etc.)

So far from the ships we have seen on the Box there is mostly like 4 factions as it is.

Republic vs Sepratist (L vs D) and Rebels vs Imps (L vs D)


Sean-Khan
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10/23/2006 11:06 AM  
Btw, there's some minor spoilers at http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=726112 - few minis were seen in a gameshow.

Some photos to be expected soon too...

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Ghengis Ska
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10/23/2006 11:15 AM  
Kithmaker by Slave I's size it should be a Transport in the WotC version, by WEG, yeah it was a Starfigther, but then with any SW game the size of the ship and the role it plays can be wonky.


Sean-Khan
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10/23/2006 1:40 PM  
Pics are up - same thread.

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Ghengis Ska
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10/23/2006 1:46 PM  
huhm looks like "Lightside" cards are red, and darkside are blue, Imp and Trade fed are both blue, no mater if it is damaged ie front back of the card.


Browncoat
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10/23/2006 3:04 PM  
The Vong don't exist in the force so how can they be "dark side"?


Kepler
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10/24/2006 8:54 AM  
Posted By Browncoat on 10/23/2006 3:04 PM
The Vong don't exist in the force so how can they be "dark side"?


I see the Vong as a third faction for the SFB game. It could be lightside and darkside vs the Vong.


Omand
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Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

10/24/2006 8:40 PM  
Hey guys,

Sorry to intrude, but there are only two factions for this game as per the posted rules and every comment from the designers.  It is light side vs. dark side.  There are no sub-factions within these two factions in a formal sense (unless you create it yourself).  Set order for the lists we have determined so far appears to be divided by ship class.

Just some observations.

Cheers

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XAos
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10/25/2006 2:20 AM  
Posted By Omand on 10/24/2006 8:40 PM
Hey guys,
 There are no sub-factions within these two factions in a formal sense (unless you create it yourself).Â
Set order for the lists we have determined so far appears to be divided by ship class.

Cheers

I think a lot of players are considering imposing "sub-faction" house rules. If there are enough ships of the sub-factions to make this viable.
And you don't really need many, e.g. the trade federation only needs the blockade battleship & a droid fighter and I think they have atleast a 3rd ship.

It's interesting to know the set oder, makes it easier to predict whats in the gaps in the previews, thanks.


Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything.

Kepler
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10/25/2006 5:42 AM  
It looks like there will be enough for 4 factions: Separatists, Republic, Rebels/New Rebublic, and Empire.


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Ghengis Ska
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10/25/2006 9:43 AM  
I'm really hoping we see more than Just the three ships.
The Trade Federation Battle Cruisers that the Nemodians used at Naboo for the "Sepratists". There is the Droid Control ship as well (which should have a bit of a different configuration in that "style" of hull, not to mention it should get some game effects, give +1 to all Droid Fighters or such (heck maybe you NEED one to run droid fighters, off course this scould be done with a designation to a random ship, but still a droid control one would be cool, and be usefull for Scenerios).

So we have maybe 1 Class one (but i doubt it since they seem to be the biggest and only in the intro set), but more likely Five Class 2, Two Class three(while these are the least powerfull they most likely could have scenerios designed around them, get your landers to the surface ie Invade Naboo, the Septs Start on the end away from the planet and have to get to it), and likely Four class for for the Septs.

There are three Canon, from RotS alone, the Banking Clan communications frigate  the Commerce Guild support ship, and the Trade Federation cruiser.

That gives us about 4-5 Sepratists/Trade Federation Capital ships. Mostly in the class 2, with the possibilty of some 3's as well Trade Federation landing ship and the Nemodian Shuttle.

And loads of opptions for scale 4 ships. the Techno Union Starfighter, Grevious' Belbullab-22, The Droid-Tri fighter is on the box, we should have a vulture droid not to mention the possiblity of a Geonosian starfighter, or even the Fan blade.

For Scenerios i got to say i hope they have tons of the Naboo N-1 Fighters, and maybe even some of the others to get a Naboo "sub-faction" it could have the Naboo Royal (Queen's) Starship (class 3), Naboo Royal Cruisrer (class 2?), Naboo star skiff Class 3?), Naboo yacht (class 3?).

Heck the ships from the movies that you could run various "what if scenerios" are pretty diverse. They have the potential for "historical SW" gaming here (the "re-create") of classice scences or battles, or varitions of them that makes it so they could do a few expansions...

There are about 80 ships in the SW Databank alone,
http://www.starwars.com/databank/starship/
yes most likely the Dusty Duck and Ebon Hawk won't get a mini but i would expect a fair number of the "movie" ships to fill out a large chunk of the 60 we are getting.



luciusgilmer
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11/12/2006 3:13 PM  
Is this a game where it will be essential to own the starter set to enjoy the product?  In other words, will there be an acceptable substitute for the map, let's say, allowing one to download the rules and just buy boosters?

It's a mutual, joint stock world, in all meridians. --Herman Melville, Moby-Dick

Sean-Khan
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11/13/2006 1:38 AM  
I don't think it's ABSOLUTELY neccessary, but it will make playing a much more pleasant. I don't know how much space maps there are with 2" grid around, maybe later in scenario packs - but right now the only 'official' maps are in the starter.

Wotc has been publishing the rules books at their site so far, I believe it's the case for this too. There will be command sheets & counters in the set which makes things easier.

I really don't like the new republic starter ship, I really would have preferred 2-3 class 2 rebel ships instead. But I DO want Executor!

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XAos
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11/13/2006 7:31 AM  
Posted By luciusgilmer on 11/12/2006 3:13 PM
Is this a game where it will be essential to own the starter set to enjoy the product?  In other words, will there be an acceptable substitute for the map, let's say, allowing one to download the rules and just buy boosters?
The maps simple enough (17 squares x 11 with no terrain) that you could just draw one on any suitable sheet of paper (e.g. an old ddm map). And the dice is a standard D20. The full rulebooks not downloadable yet. But it probably will be. So yes, you could but if you don't buy a starter, you won't have a mini of Vader's flagship Super-stardestroyer. Personally I'd buy one starter, just to get that ship.

Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything.

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Ghengis Ska
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11/13/2006 12:35 PM  
Sure it seems like you can play it with out the starter, but why wouldn't you want one? As XAos says you get an ISSD in there, that a lone has me contempleting two of these puppies....


luciusgilmer
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11/14/2006 11:36 AM  
Actually, my mother-in-law has me looking into getting them for my nephews.  Previously, I got one nephew a Clone Strike Starter (with rules, map) and the other one a booster or 2, so they could share the game.

But the starter is quite expensive (40 to 22 bucks) and doesn't have twice the ships to justify that price.  So it's a tough call.  The starter wont' seem either equal to or twice as good as the booster.

It's a mutual, joint stock world, in all meridians. --Herman Melville, Moby-Dick
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