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Subject: SW Saga: Testing ground for 4th edition

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minatoman38
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04/18/2007 1:53 AM  
I've been reading the previews for the Star Wars Saga edition and I'm wondering if this is being released partly as a testing ground for changes we might see in a 4th edition.

In particular the 3rd review talks about a revamping of the skills. Eliminating ranks and a lot of the modifiers such as synergy. They would just be 1/2 class level + attribute modifier + 5 if trained +5 with skill focus.

I actually like this idea. I've found the current skill system annoying at times. On the plus side it encourages players to design their characters more carefully and also consider more non-combat aspects of their abilities but on the down side it creates a lot of room for manipulation and mini-maxing. As well as making high level NPCs very time consuming.

Any other opinions on the matter?

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Sean-Khan
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04/18/2007 3:01 AM  
I've also started to work around implementing this skill system to current games. SW might not have skills that you can't use if not trained, but D&D surely needs some. Not many, but some.

We don't yet know everything about these rules. The problem right now is that rogue would get skills 8 skills and fighter 2 at level one. So, if you take a level of rogue and change to fighter then, the problem is even worse than with current rank -system.

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04/18/2007 9:56 AM  
It may be, but everything released is testing for 4th edition. new machanics, flavor, classes, every variant rule, all fo them are being considered for "core"4.0...

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Sean-Khan
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04/20/2007 2:49 AM  
Another preview is up. We've now seen or heard of talent trees, skill system, powers system and combat/actions.

Game seems to be going towards what I've seen in Iron Heroes (recovery, talent trees) or True20 (non-iterative attacks). I like it!

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Luisjoey
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04/24/2007 6:57 AM  
That skill systen is pretty based on Atributes more than posible ranks... well you improve them with Feats as the 2nd edition (AD&D) feats.

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05/05/2007 4:42 AM  
The new criticals system for Star Wars is that a 20 is a critical--no threat, no reroll, just double damage.

If this change gets implemented into D&D 4.0, that means that the combat rules will change considerably. My gut reaction is to assume that it follows that this isn't where 4.0 will be going. However, that many not be the case. After all, if we're losing iterative attacks, and moving to a system where dice are rolled less often, then perhaps we are getting a very heavily changed combat system.

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gss_000
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05/06/2007 8:37 AM  
I haven't read SWRPG, but do the weapons only crit on a 20? If so, I can definitely see why this change was made from the standard D&D RPG rules. However with weapons that have large crit ranges, unless they scale that down a lot, this rule woul be a poor change for 4th ed.

It's hard to think of rolling less dice than we do now, as it is pretty streamlined as is.

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Vrecknidj
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05/12/2007 7:07 AM  
It's hard to speculate without seeing the new rules. I'd wager that weapons only crit on a 20 in the Saga rules. And, that's one of the reasons why my gut reaction is to say that this isn't a harbinger of what's to come in D&D 4.0. I think that D&D will retain much of its critical hit flavor. It's too well-developed to toss aside (though I can see it undergoing some revision).

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minatoman38
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05/13/2007 4:12 AM  

there are a few things I'd like to see streamlined in 3.5 and what we've since of the Saga rules seem to be partly in the right direction.

Skills: I like the idea of dumping ranks and just making a skill a proficent or not kind of thing. The unearthed arcana had some okay ideas about solving the multiclass problem.

Multi-Attacks: I thing more powerful single attacks are much better than dozens of dice rolls that have little chance of impacting on the game. One of the reasons I ended my last campaign when we got to level 14 was I was so tried of waiting for the Ranger to resolve all his attack rolls. He was making six or more attacks in a round. Most had little or no chance of hitting and doing very little damage individually...overal he still did as well has the heavy hitter but it usually took the player three times as long to resolve one round. I would really welcome getting rid of multi-attacks and having two weapon fighting resolved by either added extra damage to a single roll (one roll resolving both weapons with a penalty on the roll and the damage added together) or a single roll against multiple adjacent targets.


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Teflon Jeff
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05/15/2007 10:39 AM  
Simplicity would certainly be good. I'm all for that.

But not at the cost of quality of game play.

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gss_000
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05/15/2007 3:03 PM  
When everything is equal, simplicity is a winning quality. Lack of it is what makes Roll Master a game you can't play too often. However, it's definitely not the end all and be all. If it was, there wouldn't see people complicate games to make them more "realistic".

Rereading this thread has made me think that everything that comes out could be seen as a testing ground for 4th ed. Now, a vast majority won't be enacted onviously, but some have beome so integral I can see them in the next edition (swift/immediate actions come to mind).

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minatoman38
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05/20/2007 4:50 AM  

Things that would really make me happy would be an extreme reworking of character creation to make far simpler characters. Overal I like combat as it is...Tactical and boardgame-like with a lot of rules covering all those oddball things players like to do...ie wanna arm wrestler a marilith...okay...we can do it.

Things that would sell me on updating...

Cutting back on skills...I could envision a list about this long...persuasion, preception, education, survival, athletics, thieving skills (unique to thieves), stealth, craft, spellcraft (unique to spellcasters), and that is it.

Sometimes I really miss the good old days when nobody needed any skill. Players told the DM what they wanted to do and the DM told them if they could. Knowledge was what the DM deemed they were likely to know or what the player had lurking around in his head...after thumbing through the module while the DM was on the John.

Getting rid of extra attacks per round...or at least reducing them as much as possible. Everybody is waiting.

One page character sheets. I find I'm playing more and more often with people coming back to the game after a long break, new and unsure of gaming people or people who've been playing other systems for years. As much as I love D&D (and play d20 almost exclusively) the character sheets and the growing complexity can intimidate people out of the game...I remember MERPG...played once when I was first starting out and to this day have never seen a game I liked less. If that was my first RPG experience...I would have done a lot better in school.

As a flavor note...get rid of all this players making and buying magic...it won't happen and I guess it works and is balanced but come on...lets find our magic items...not buy them at "magic items'R'us". I was recently playing Talislanta and the gamemaster asked me what sort of items would I like to buy...I told him the truth "nothing I'd rather earn them than buy them...whatever they turn out to be".


Robert Rosehart
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