Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
    
San Jose, California
 | | 08/17/2007 7:58 AM |
| It's going to bring back THACO!!!
Yay!!! 
Yeah right, I hope I'm wrong. | |
Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai.  I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
5590 Posts
| |
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10885 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 08/17/2007 8:48 AM |
| I'm hoping for a return to weapon vs armor type rules.
Oh yeah, and the 1st ED initiative rules. | |
No Hazel, no peace 
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 08/17/2007 8:59 AM |
| Posted By greyhaze on 08/17/2007 8:38 AM
I'm too scared to laugh...
Wait! There's more! Hobbits from 1st edition is back, the Flumph is rising from its grave and the axebeak is not really extinct! The Quickling will also become a standard race, since it's so much better than the halfling anyways!
Other things to look out for:
False Spider
Lead Skeleton
Nilbog
Ogrillion
Oliphant
Piercer
Pyrolisk
Shedu
And let's not forget the Slaad Lord and the powerful Spriggan!
Can the Ubue (three headed giant) make a comeback too? I sure hope so!
And who's up for playing a Grippli?! I AM!!!!
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Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai. I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
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GuJiaXian
Sergeant
641 Posts
Roswell, GA
| | 08/17/2007 9:00 AM |
| | The ogrillion was never updated to 3.X, was it? | |
"Clearly a case of too many hunchbacks and not enough mad scientists..." | |
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BoloBaby
Sergeant
640 Posts
Fort Mill, SC
| | 08/17/2007 10:32 AM |
| Posted By Ghendar on 08/17/2007 8:48 AM
I'm hoping for a return to weapon vs armor type rules.
Oh yeah, and the 1st ED initiative rules.
I enjoyed those rules too, but don't count on it.
WotC has said that they are trying to make DMing easier. Those rules complicated combat.
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Champion of the Cleric with Raise Dead | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10885 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 08/17/2007 10:50 AM |
| Posted By BoloBaby on 08/17/2007 10:32 AM Posted By Ghendar on 08/17/2007 8:48 AM
I'm hoping for a return to weapon vs armor type rules.
Oh yeah, and the 1st ED initiative rules. I enjoyed those rules too, but don't count on it. WotC has said that they are trying to make DMing easier. Those rules complicated combat.
Yeah, I know. I wasn't being serious.
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No Hazel, no peace
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
5590 Posts
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zenthrus
Commander
4680 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 08/17/2007 11:30 AM |
| Removing THAC0 was by far the best idea in the 3rd-edition repertoire. Even in jest, I can't imagine anyone trying to revive that nightmare from a math convention.  | |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
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PaSquall
Underboss
1392 Posts
| | 08/17/2007 2:19 PM |
| Posted By Ghendar on 08/17/2007 8:48 AM
I'm hoping for a return to weapon vs armor type rules.
Oh yeah, and the 1st ED initiative rules.
ROTFL ! (really)
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Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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PaSquall
Underboss
1392 Posts
| | 08/17/2007 2:26 PM |
| Posted By Kaya Kenobi on 08/17/2007 8:59 AM
Other things to look out for:
Nilbog
Hey, nilbogs are the coolest monster ever  One of them was enough to make a 10-level group of adventurers flee (true).
4E players would hate it.
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Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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freedeath
Sneak
85 Posts
Great White North
| | 08/17/2007 2:30 PM |
| And who's up for playing a Grippli? If that's the tree frog humanoid from 1st Ed, count me in.
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Life's a bowl of cultists....
_______________________________
Champion of the Scale-Creep Resistance
________________________
Champion of the Black Pudding | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6567 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 08/17/2007 8:40 PM |
| ThAC0 would kill all interest in 4E. Say it ain't so! 
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Mushroom King
Thor
Underboss
1938 Posts
| | 08/17/2007 8:57 PM |
| ThAC0 To Hit Armor Class Zero
This was worse then learning the Metric System. The Pain. I heard it killed off the Grippli............
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Cheers !!
----THOR (Atlanta GA)
Kauke@Juno.com (E-Mail me for a current Trade List)
www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=Thor
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10106 Posts
United States
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PaSquall
Underboss
1392 Posts
| | 08/18/2007 3:43 AM |
| [godlike mode]
It took me around 10 seconds to understand and use THAC0.
[/godlike mode] | |
Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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XAos
Underboss
2376 Posts
London
| | 08/18/2007 6:56 AM |
| Posted By PaSquall on 08/18/2007 3:43 AM
[godlike mode]
It took me around 10 seconds to understand and use THAC0.
[/godlike mode]
Yea, but thats 10 seconds every time you roll an attack, which adds up during a long rpg session.
It takes about 1 second without Thaco.
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Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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PaSquall
Underboss
1392 Posts
| | 08/18/2007 8:33 AM |
| | No no no, that was ten seconds the first time I used it. After, for each dice rolled, it was less than 1 second... And you don't need to be ace in mental arithmetic to achieve it. | |
Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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Star
Sergeant
978 Posts
New Britain, CT
| | 08/18/2007 1:16 PM |
| | They'll make it as simple as possible. They have to target the younger players that have grown up with a Playstation controler glued to their right hand. They will take any math out of the game that they can. Thaco and weapon initiative will not be making a comeback. | |
Champion of Gromph Baenre | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6567 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 08/19/2007 9:46 AM |
| Posted By PaSquall on 08/18/2007 8:33 AM
No no no, that was ten seconds the first time I used it. After, for each dice rolled, it was less than 1 second... And you don't need to be ace in mental arithmetic to achieve it.
Yes, we all realize it wasn't that hard for some people. I never had a hard time with it. Of course, I have a Ph.D at 24 (although I turned 25 toay) so maybe I'm not the best sample. I do know it was a pain to teach, and I still did most of the combat calculations for my 2E group. Why do something hard if you don't have to? If I get the chance, I'll give the story behind ThAC0, if someone else doesn't beat me to it.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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PaSquall
Underboss
1392 Posts
| | 08/19/2007 1:26 PM |
| | Oh, I'm not trying to champion THAC0, I'll even say that the "newer" d20/positive AC system is far more logical and intuitive. But I played with dozens of people and almost everyone used THAC0 easily after a short while. OK, most of this was 10 - 25 years ago and not the actual "playstation" generation (to quote Star), but I disagree when people say that THAC0 was sooooooooo difficult to understand and use... | |
Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6567 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 08/19/2007 2:33 PM |
| | So, what were 1st edition initiative rules? | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Ha 80/80---De 60/60---Ar 60/60---GoL 72/72---Ab 60/60---Dk 60/60---Af 60/60---Ud 60/60---WD 60/60---WDQ 60/60---BW 60/60---UH 60/60---NB 60/60---DDe 60/60---SSB 59/60 (Does anyone want to buy my SSB collection?)
Champion of Something, I imagine I will think of something
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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PaSquall
Underboss
1392 Posts
| | 08/19/2007 3:07 PM |
| He he, as I happen to be online, I'll answer before Ghendar.
The fact is that 1E initiative rules were quite difficult to understand or wouldn't seem logical to many players. So initiative was very houseruled and it seems that no two groups played it the same way. This often gave funny discussions when new players and DMs played together for the first time )
Not that it was a problem, as houseruling was largely the norm at the time, it was even encouraged by the authors of the game...
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Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6567 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 08/19/2007 7:07 PM |
| Posted By PaSquall on 08/19/2007 3:07 PM He he, as I happen to be online, I'll answer before Ghendar. The fact is that 1E initiative rules were quite difficult to understand or wouldn't seem logical to many players. So initiative was very houseruled and it seems that no two groups played it the same way. This often gave funny discussions when new players and DMs played together for the first time  ) Not that it was a problem, as houseruling was largely the norm at the time, it was even encouraged by the authors of the game...
It still is encouraged, from what I see. Every developer I've met seems interested to hear about house rules we use. Usually, they're good, and can be incorporated easily. | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10885 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 08/20/2007 4:35 AM |
| Posted By Corim Danex on 08/19/2007 2:33 PM
So, what were 1st edition initiative rules?
Trust me Corim, just step away from that question. That way lies madness. PaSquall said it about right.
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No Hazel, no peace
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
5590 Posts
| | 08/20/2007 8:29 AM |
| | I heard that you will just push a button and the AC you hit will be determined by how many people you have on your face book... | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Demon Web, Darkenbeast in Feywild. | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6567 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 08/20/2007 11:12 AM |
| Posted By greyhaze on 08/20/2007 8:29 AM
I heard that you will just push a button and the AC you hit will be determined by how many people you have on your face book...
okay, that's frickin hilarious!! | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2710 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 08/20/2007 12:17 PM |
| | What's a face book? | |
You know, I keep thinking that after the new design team gets done with D&D 4e, D&D won't stand for Dungeons and Dragons anymore, because well, that's just not fun. It's old and stuffy. - Originally Posted by BabWryter on Kenzerco.com | |
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zenthrus
Commander
4680 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 08/20/2007 12:25 PM |
| Posted By nyjastul69 on 08/20/2007 12:17 PM
What's a face book?
Facebook
It's like classmates.com and myspace combined
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Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3775 Posts
Adelaide
| | 08/20/2007 7:35 PM |
| Posted By Ghendar on 08/20/2007 4:35 AM Posted By Corim Danex on 08/19/2007 2:33 PM
So, what were 1st edition initiative rules? Trust me Corim, just step away from that question. That way lies madness. PaSquall said it about right.
I was going to run a 1st edition module for the next con here, but gave up when I realised I'd have to manage inititave by the book. | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: Sometimes the road less traveled is less traveled for a reason. ~ Seinfeld
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6567 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 08/20/2007 8:22 PM |
| Posted By Bert the Troll on 08/20/2007 7:35 PM Posted By Ghendar on 08/20/2007 4:35 AM Posted By Corim Danex on 08/19/2007 2:33 PM
So, what were 1st edition initiative rules? Trust me Corim, just step away from that question. That way lies madness. PaSquall said it about right. I was going to run a 1st edition module for the next con here, but gave up when I realised I'd have to manage inititave by the book.
Seriously ROFLOL. My wife wanted to know what was so funny. And why I fell out of my chair. | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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vanrulzz
Underboss
2346 Posts
¯\(°_o)/¯
| | 08/21/2007 10:15 PM |
| Posted By greyhaze on 08/20/2007 8:29 AM
I heard that you will just push a button and the AC you hit will be determined by how many people you have on your face book...
i dont have a facebook! o noz! | |
TENTACLES!!!!!
STRANGE TEMPLES!!!!
FREE PIE!!!!
IM CRZY KEWL!!!! | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
5590 Posts
| | 08/22/2007 7:43 AM |
| | The good news vanrulzz is that with no facebook, you'll hit AC0 every time... | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Demon Web, Darkenbeast in Feywild. | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2623 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 08/22/2007 7:50 AM |
| Posted By greyhaze on 08/22/2007 7:43 AM
The good news vanrulzz is that with no facebook, you'll hit AC0 every time...
Was it 1e or 2e that hitting AC 0 was good? The system went from 10 to -10 iirc. | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
5590 Posts
| | 08/22/2007 8:25 AM |
| | 1st and 2nd I believe. But, above it was declared that were using THAC0 again. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Demon Web, Darkenbeast in Feywild. | |
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kyrin
Commander
3146 Posts
| | 08/22/2007 8:36 AM |
| What was so hard about 1st & 2nd Ed Init? Roll a d10, subtract your DEX modifier, add your weapon speed, subtract this, add that, subtract 2 if it's a Tuesday...
Yeah, simple...
I must say I preferred counting up instead of down, but I suppose a "high number always good" system *is* simpler.
JIM
aka kyrin | |
My Have/Want List <-|-|->My Trades and References 1 <-|-|->My Trades and References 2
Pronounce "Drow" like "crow"! Viva la Revolution! We Shall Overcome!
Vindicated Champion of the Stirge! Vindicated Champion of the Githyanki Knight on Red Dragon!!
Vindicated Champion of the Androsphinx! | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6567 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 08/22/2007 8:53 AM |
| Posted By kyrin on 08/22/2007 8:36 AM
What was so hard about 1st & 2nd Ed Init? Roll a d10, subtract your DEX modifier, add your weapon speed, subtract this, add that, subtract 2 if it's a Tuesday...
Yeah, simple...
I must say I preferred counting up instead of down, but I suppose a "high number always good" system *is* simpler.
JIM
aka kyrin
More importantly, it brought in a lot more gamers. It really solidified D&D as THE primo RPG. | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Kepler
Sneak
56 Posts
| | 08/22/2007 9:08 AM |
| | Has the state of Math education got so bad that a simple concept like THAC0 is now difficult for teens and adults to use? I don't remember anyone having problems with it back in the 80s. | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2710 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 08/22/2007 9:15 AM |
| 1st edition combat went something like this
Surprise: Combat begins with a check for surprise. Under normal circumstances, each side rolls a d6, and the other side is surprised on a 1 - 2. The difference between the two surprise die rolls indicates the number of six second segments that surprise lasts. Each segment of surprise permits the unsurprised side a full round's worth of action. Missile and thrown weapons may be used at three times the normal rate. While the rules don't explicitly state, we assume that spells may only be cast if their casting time (in segments) fits within the surprise time.
Combat Distance: This is randomly determined after surprise. The DM rolls a d6+4 for the number of inches apart the party is. “Inches,” in this case, refers to the miniatures roots of AD&D. Indoors and underground, an “inch” refers to ten feet, while outdoors, an “inch” refers to ten yards.
Initiative: Once surprise segments are over, both sides roll a d6 for initiative every round. Dexterity does not modify the initiative roll, nor does the weapon speed factor. The higher roll wins initiative. Actions are performed in order of initiative, including missile weapons, spell casting, and melee attacks.
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You know, I keep thinking that after the new design team gets done with D&D 4e, D&D won't stand for Dungeons and Dragons anymore, because well, that's just not fun. It's old and stuffy. - Originally Posted by BabWryter on Kenzerco.com | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10885 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 08/22/2007 9:26 AM |
| Posted By Kepler on 08/22/2007 9:08 AM
Has the state of Math education got so bad that a simple concept like THAC0 is now difficult for teens and adults to use? I don't remember anyone having problems with it back in the 80s.
I agree, but like many things in life when something superior comes out and replaces the old thing folks need to have it. Once upon a time we had to write hand written letters, now we have email. Do you think most people want to give up that level of convenience and go back to hand writing letters?
Could we get rid of cell phones at this point? Who would prefer going back to VHS when we have DVD.
For good or bad, that's how life works. | |
No Hazel, no peace
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|