smetzger
Warrior
326 Posts
    
 | | 08/25/2007 1:18 PM |
| The big question I have is will scale and facing be the same in 4e as 3.5e?
If they are both the same, then I have no problem with 4e. If they are different then I'll have to look real hard at the rules and new minis before I make the jump.
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smetzger aka Scott Metzger | |
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GuJiaXian
Sergeant
641 Posts
Roswell, GA
| | 08/25/2007 3:16 PM |
| | What do you mean by facing? D&D doesn't have rules for facing at all (as it is assumed that you are constantly ducking, weaving, and otherwise moving during combat). | |
"Clearly a case of too many hunchbacks and not enough mad scientists..." | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6567 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 08/25/2007 4:26 PM |
| | I don't anticipate any changes to scale or facing rules. What they have works extremely well. | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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smetzger
Warrior
326 Posts
| | 08/25/2007 6:50 PM |
| Posted By Teflon Jeff on 08/25/2007 4:26 PM
I don't anticipate any changes to scale or facing rules. What they have works extremely well.
By facing I meant the amount of space a creature uses.
I wouldn't say the present system works 'extremely' well. I would say good to adequate. It breaks down for long creatures like a snake, behir, or dragon.  At the same time not having a square introduces issues with 5 ft steps and which is the front.
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smetzger aka Scott Metzger | |
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Luisjoey
Underboss
1704 Posts
Caracas Venezuela
| | 08/25/2007 11:10 PM |
| | well the new edition wants to improve the dynamic of the game, facing rules could slow it down maybe is not in that move! | |
Knight of the Quori
Champion of King Kaius III of Karrnath
 Purple Knight of Venezuela
Venezuelan Site For D&D minis Calabozo Criollo Venezuela
Venezuelan Site for SW minis VeneMinis.com | |
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Star
Sergeant
978 Posts
New Britain, CT
| | 08/26/2007 1:13 AM |
| I made a lot of fun about everything being square when they came out with 3.5 from a reality standpoint, but it works as a game mechanic. It simplifies things and since that's the way they're going, I doubt they would change back.
As far as scaling, they can't seem to make all their current mini's to the same scale. They could slightly change the scale and it would take us a couple of sets to notice - we would just assume that there were lots of production mistakes. | |
Champion of Gromph Baenre | |
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Count Dooku
Commander
4636 Posts
New York
| | 08/26/2007 5:55 AM |
| Desert of Desolation has a Troll based after 4th editon art...This "sneak peek" mini shows me that although 4th edition will be VERY different from 3rd....The mini's base sizes and scale will remain the same... Or at least I pray thats the case. | |
Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
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PatEllis15
Commander
4459 Posts
| | 08/26/2007 7:23 AM |
| Posted By Count Dooku on 08/26/2007 5:55 AM Desert of Desolation has a Troll based after 4th editon art...This "sneak peek" mini shows me that although 4th edition will be VERY different from 3rd....The mini's base sizes and scale will remain the same... Or at least I pray thats the case.
See that the artwork has been reimagined, doesn't show me that 4th edition will be different at ALL from 3rd. Art is art, the rules are what make the editions.
Pat E
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"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
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Wraithborne
Commander
3440 Posts
West Virginia
| | 08/26/2007 7:54 AM |
| | But the art is what makes the minis and poor looking trolls don't sell boosters. | |
Hey Woman, Hey Woman!! Listen here. Since your ol' man ain't got no heart, maybe you'd like to see a real man. I bet you stay up late every night dreamin' you had a real man, don't ya'? I tell you what, bring your pretty little self over to my apartment tonight and I'll show you a real man!
Ghouls: 1 Player Characters: 0 | |
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PatEllis15
Commander
4459 Posts
| | 08/26/2007 8:55 AM |
| Posted By Wraithborne on 08/26/2007 7:54 AM
But the art is what makes the minis and poor looking trolls don't sell boosters.
Art is a matter of taste. The new Troll looks different from the old troll. However, he looks great! I can definatley find a place for him in my campaign (which won't be switching to 4e anytime in 200 .
Pat E
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"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
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Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6567 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 08/26/2007 11:08 AM |
| D&D does have some kind of facing rules, though.
If a creature is flying, and it has poor flight, it can only turn so much. Does this get reset when the creature stops moving at the end of each movement? What I mean is, can a poor flight dragon fly one direction straight out and then breath fire and on its next turn fly in exactly the opposite direction since there is no facing? | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Ha 80/80---De 60/60---Ar 60/60---GoL 72/72---Ab 60/60---Dk 60/60---Af 60/60---Ud 60/60---WD 60/60---WDQ 60/60---BW 60/60---UH 60/60---NB 60/60---DDe 60/60---SSB 59/60 (Does anyone want to buy my SSB collection?)
Champion of Something, I imagine I will think of something
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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Count Dooku
Commander
4636 Posts
New York
| | 08/26/2007 5:45 PM |
| Posted By PatEllis15 on 08/26/2007 7:23 AM Posted By Count Dooku on 08/26/2007 5:55 AM Desert of Desolation has a Troll based after 4th editon art...This "sneak peek" mini shows me that although 4th edition will be VERY different from 3rd....The mini's base sizes and scale will remain the same... Or at least I pray thats the case. Very?! VERY?! See that the artwork has been reimagined, doesn't show me that 4th edition will be different at ALL from 3rd. Art is art, the rules are what make the editions. Pat E
Im not the 4th edition expert. But I hear the rules with be VERY (yes VERY) different from 3rd edition. Converting old adventures into 4th edition will be almost impossible because it will be so different.
I also heard that Gnomes are gone from the PHB and Teiflings will be a core PC race.
If this isnt true then I take it back but this is what I'm hearing.
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Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
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GuJiaXian
Sergeant
641 Posts
Roswell, GA
| | 08/26/2007 5:54 PM |
| | Tieflings as a core race is confirmed, but the loss of gnomes from the PHB is nothing but rumor and conjecture. | |
"Clearly a case of too many hunchbacks and not enough mad scientists..." | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10885 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 08/26/2007 6:19 PM |
| Posted By PatEllis15 on 08/26/2007 8:55 AM Posted By Wraithborne on 08/26/2007 7:54 AM
But the art is what makes the minis and poor looking trolls don't sell boosters.
Art is a matter of taste. The new Troll looks different from the old troll. However, he looks great! I can definatley find a place for him in my campaign (which won't be switching to 4e anytime in 200 . Pat E
I'm still using Harb Trolls and Troll Slashers. Have no plans to acquire the new Mr Big Head troll.
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No Hazel, no peace 
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10885 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 08/26/2007 6:20 PM |
| Posted By Count Dooku on 08/26/2007 5:45 PM
I also heard that Gnomes are gone from the PHB and Teiflings will be a core PC race.
WotC can do whatever the hell they want with core races. Teiflings will NEVER be core in any game I run.
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No Hazel, no peace
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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PatEllis15
Commander
4459 Posts
| | 08/26/2007 6:22 PM |
| Posted By Count Dooku on 08/26/2007 5:45 PM
Im not the 4th edition expert. But I hear the rules with be VERY (yes VERY) different from 3rd edition. Converting old adventures into 4th edition will be almost impossible because it will be so different.
I also heard that Gnomes are gone from the PHB and Teiflings will be a core PC race.
If this isnt true then I take it back but this is what I'm hearing.
I was just objecting to translating different art = radically different rules. They are unrelated.
Pat E
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"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6567 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 08/26/2007 6:38 PM |
| Posted By Ghendar on 08/26/2007 6:20 PM Posted By Count Dooku on 08/26/2007 5:45 PM
I also heard that Gnomes are gone from the PHB and Teiflings will be a core PC race.
WotC can do whatever the hell they want with core races. Teiflings will NEVER be core in any game I run.
I always thought that tiefling should be a template, personally.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Wraithborne
Commander
3440 Posts
West Virginia
| | 08/26/2007 7:43 PM |
| Posted By GuJiaXian on 08/26/2007 5:54 PM
Tieflings as a core race is confirmed, but the loss of gnomes from the PHB is nothing but rumor and conjecture.
BUt not totally baseless rumor and conjecture. It's well known that all of the core races from 3.x won't be retained and it's also well known that lots of folks at WotC have no love lost for the little tinkers. | |
Hey Woman, Hey Woman!! Listen here. Since your ol' man ain't got no heart, maybe you'd like to see a real man. I bet you stay up late every night dreamin' you had a real man, don't ya'? I tell you what, bring your pretty little self over to my apartment tonight and I'll show you a real man!
Ghouls: 1 Player Characters: 0 | |
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Star
Sergeant
978 Posts
New Britain, CT
| | 08/26/2007 9:04 PM |
| Posted By GuJiaXian on 08/26/2007 5:54 PM
Tieflings as a core race is confirmed, but the loss of gnomes from the PHB is nothing but rumor and conjecture.
Tieflings are a cool race - but I don't think that they should be core. They're probably included so that a race can have "Favored Class - Warlock" because no other core race would make sense. Just a guess though.
I wouldn't miss Gnomes that much. In theory I'd rather have Gnomes than Tieflings, but then I've never played a Gnome in 3rd edition and have never seen anyone play a Gnome in 3rd edition. I have played a Tiefling though and have seen another two played. So based on my incredibly limited sampling of data I could argue that maybe the change is due to Tieflings being more popular than Gnomes. | |
Champion of Gromph Baenre | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2710 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 08/27/2007 5:54 AM |
| Tieflings have the 'wickit kewl powerz' thing going on for them, gnomes do not.
I hope Warlocks are not an addition to the core rules. I haven't seen a more boring, one trick pony class in my life. If they're foolish enough to add tieflings as a core race, they will likely add a good aligned 1/2 creature as well. Having a naturally evil creature as a core race doesn't seem very 'D&D' to me. Being evil isn't difficult or heroic. I hope the change the name though, tiefling is rather silly. | |
You know, I keep thinking that after the new design team gets done with D&D 4e, D&D won't stand for Dungeons and Dragons anymore, because well, that's just not fun. It's old and stuffy. - Originally Posted by BabWryter on Kenzerco.com | |
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Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6567 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 08/27/2007 7:32 AM |
| Posted By nyjastul69 on 08/27/2007 5:54 AM
 Being evil isn't difficult or heroic. Exactly.
I think it's ridiculous to even consider the tiefling as a core race. Especially if they are going to look even more demonic.
The problem with gnomes is that they are an underpowered race. Too much is taken away and not enough is given compared to other races.
-2 Str, slow speed, small size all hurt quite a bit. Sure, the halfling has this too, but who needs a Con bonus when you are too slow and weak to get into melee in the first place? The halfling at least has a Dex bonus to assist as rogue.
The Gnome should have had an Int bonus and some other factors making them even better wizard types.
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"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Ha 80/80---De 60/60---Ar 60/60---GoL 72/72---Ab 60/60---Dk 60/60---Af 60/60---Ud 60/60---WD 60/60---WDQ 60/60---BW 60/60---UH 60/60---NB 60/60---DDe 60/60---SSB 59/60 (Does anyone want to buy my SSB collection?)
Champion of Something, I imagine I will think of something
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6567 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 08/27/2007 7:49 AM |
| | I wouldn't mind seeing Aasimar and Tiefling as +0 LA races in the DMG... | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Darkfather
Commander
3457 Posts
Queensland, Australia
| | 08/27/2007 7:53 AM |
| The latest 4E Design & Development article should put minds to rest about scale and facing, etc worry's...
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20070827a
DF
| |
[INSERT WITTY QUOTE HERE]
233 Confirmed Trades, 230 Completed Trades, 3 Failed TradesChampion of Dark Mantles | |
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Shottglazz
Sergeant
908 Posts
Quinte West, Ontario, Canada
| | 08/27/2007 8:17 AM |
| Posted By Ghendar on 08/26/2007 6:20 PM Posted By Count Dooku on 08/26/2007 5:45 PM
I also heard that Gnomes are gone from the PHB and Teiflings will be a core PC race.
WotC can do whatever the hell they want with core races. Teiflings will NEVER be core in any game I run.
Hear Hear!!!!
| |
Shottglazz
"Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand;
I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me."
Completed trades ( 43 ): Pikel, Darrell, JeffDHarvey, BiggPappa001, Ghendar, Valinrook X2, Wolfgang x3, Wraithborne x5, Mr Ruffles, Anothermullen, CKissee x3, Browns_Scoundrel, Kyrin, GuJiaXian x2, Tyngfumv, Basic_Aim, Mickey Mouse, Berus316, Crisisman, Zoons, Rockfrd, Sterling40 x2, Brucemc, 2007 Magical Mystery Trade, Redskullz x2, Stephengroy, Lyus_Sleyden, Foolforthought, 2008 Magical Mystery Trade, Kilsek, Generic Fighter
Pending trades ( 1 ): Auric
WotC trades ( 1 ): Red_Deceiver
Bad trades ( 2 ): LeftEyeofGruumsh, Yotebeth | |
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Star
Sergeant
978 Posts
New Britain, CT
| | 08/27/2007 10:46 AM |
| Posted By nyjastul69 on 08/27/2007 5:54 AM
Tieflings have the 'wickit kewl powerz' thing going on for them, gnomes do not.
I hope Warlocks are not an addition to the core rules. I haven't seen a more boring, one trick pony class in my life. If they're foolish enough to add tieflings as a core race, they will likely add a good aligned 1/2 creature as well. Having a naturally evil creature as a core race doesn't seem very 'D&D' to me. Being evil isn't difficult or heroic. I hope the change the name though, tiefling is rather silly.
If they add Tiefling they should definately add Aasimar as well - that or change Tieflings from being inherently evil. I agree that an inherently evil race should not be core.
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Champion of Gromph Baenre | |
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GuJiaXian
Sergeant
641 Posts
Roswell, GA
| | 08/27/2007 10:48 AM |
| | I don't think that AD&D or 3rd edition tieflings were "inherently evil" at all. They simply had a certain ancestry, because of which they were treated (or mistreated) in certain ways. This led to many of them adopting an evil outlook, though I don't think that as a race they'll be evil. | |
"Clearly a case of too many hunchbacks and not enough mad scientists..." | |
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thekidxii
Sergeant
367 Posts
No Yack. I said.. we need a DM not BM!
| | 08/27/2007 11:30 AM |
| k maybe this'll be like "new coke"...
(waiting patiently for "D&D Classic" to be released) | |
Champion of the dire hippo.
Audi Vide Tace
"Nothing matters but the weekend, From a Tuesday point of view" -Diamond & Zero | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 08/27/2007 12:00 PM |
| Posted By Corim Danex on 08/26/2007 11:08 AM
D&D does have some kind of facing rules, though.
If a creature is flying, and it has poor flight, it can only turn so much. Does this get reset when the creature stops moving at the end of each movement? What I mean is, can a poor flight dragon fly one direction straight out and then breath fire and on its next turn fly in exactly the opposite direction since there is no facing?
My understanding of the flight rules is that facing doesn't have anything to do with it. Flight rules don't prevent you from attacking someone behind you or anywhere around you during your standard or full-round action, at least as far as they are written. They only concern movement per se, i.e. can you stop moving (hover), turn 180°, and so on.
Concerning the OP's message, i think that the facing and scaling rules are quite simple and work well. Scaling is good since it's passive and precalculated into the creature's base stats, plus they make sense generally. Facing is of course very simple albeit not quite as realistic, but then again a round-based game to represent a continuous time-frame is not very realistic either, so the facing rules at least don't penalize you because e.g. you hadn't anticipated that other creature's move which occurs simultaneously in reality but after your turn in the round-based combat rules.
Sky
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The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 08/27/2007 12:39 PM |
| Posted By Corim Danex on 08/27/2007 7:32 AM Posted By nyjastul69 on 08/27/2007 5:54 AM
 Being evil isn't difficult or heroic. Exactly. I think it's ridiculous to even consider the tiefling as a core race. Especially if they are going to look even more demonic.
Although i'm not necessarily fond of the tiefling, i don't see the problem in him being elevated to a core race. Or the aasimar, which is pretty inevitable i guess unless they change the classes significantly. What i would foresee is that the aasimar need to be good or neutral, while the tiefling could be neutral or evil.
I doubt very, very much that they would introduce an evil-only core race, considering that they always put forward the good and neutral alignments as the most favorable PC alignments and most if not all adventure assume non-evil PCs.
Generally, i'd be happy that a few additional races be introduced as core for more frequent usage by those who want them in their game worlds. I think that half-races such as half-elves and half-orcs are halfway between two distinct races, they feel sort of watered down to me, and as such lack the spicy flavor of the root races as they are not races in themselves IMO; and the gnome also lacks some discinctive character IMO (although i'm sure a lot of DMs out there have given them a lot of distinctive character). Thus, the human, dwarf, elf and hobbit... er, halfling, sorry, are often repeated. I'm looking forward to more diversity.
Sky
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The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
5590 Posts
| | 08/27/2007 12:42 PM |
| Posted By Ghendar on 08/26/2007 6:20 PM
WotC can do whatever the hell they want with core races. Teiflings will NEVER be core in any game I run.
Cripes. Tieflings as core... guh. Yeh, I guess they're the new Drow. More evil guys turned good guys, with a million resistances... how is this gonna balance out? Believe it or not I prefer the Gnomes. Of course, if you compare this to the warforged, I prefer the tieflings. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Demon Web, Darkenbeast in Feywild. | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 08/27/2007 12:43 PM |
| Posted By Darkfather on 08/27/2007 7:53 AM
The latest 4E Design & Development article should put minds to rest about scale and facing, etc worry's...
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20070827a
DF
Membership to D&D insider appears required to read this article, unless the guess login is still available? I don't see a guess option anywhere though, after short scrutiny.
Care to give a short synopsis? 
Also, can someone post the picture of the troll mini or a link to where it can be found?
Thanks,
Sky
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The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
|
Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
5590 Posts
| |
Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 08/27/2007 12:53 PM |
| Thanks. It's the background picture from Wizard's site too.
Hmm. Different looking i guess. I can't say i prefer one over the other.
Sky | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
|
Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6567 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 08/27/2007 3:28 PM |
| Posted By Skyscraper on 08/27/2007 12:43 PM Posted By Darkfather on 08/27/2007 7:53 AM
The latest 4E Design & Development article should put minds to rest about scale and facing, etc worry's...
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20070827a
DF
Membership to D&D insider appears required to read this article, unless the guess login is still available? I don't see a guess option anywhere though, after short scrutiny. Care to give a short synopsis? Also, can someone post the picture of the troll mini or a link to where it can be found? Thanks, Sky
Membership to D&D Insider is not required until they start charging (around May 2008 ). I accessed it by using my WotC boards login, which I rarely use since I have less than 5 posts there. So, currently, access is free.
| |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Ha 80/80---De 60/60---Ar 60/60---GoL 72/72---Ab 60/60---Dk 60/60---Af 60/60---Ud 60/60---WD 60/60---WDQ 60/60---BW 60/60---UH 60/60---NB 60/60---DDe 60/60---SSB 59/60 (Does anyone want to buy my SSB collection?)
Champion of Something, I imagine I will think of something
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
|
Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 08/27/2007 3:55 PM |
| | Ah, thanks for the tip Corim. | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
|
Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6567 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 08/28/2007 7:15 AM |
| | sweet, I like this new info... | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
portermj
Warrior
318 Posts
| | 08/28/2007 7:31 AM |
| Posted By Darkfather on 08/27/2007 7:53 AM
The latest 4E Design & Development article should put minds to rest about scale and facing, etc worry's...
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20070827a
DF
I'll take it as a good sign that this designer appears to "get it" imo. It seems like a more interesting approach to enounters. | |
Do you like games John?
Absolutely! | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 08/28/2007 11:32 AM |
| I'll voice partial dissent concerning the content of the Design and Development article.
Generally, i'm glad that the modifications to 4E appear to allow a 1st level party to take on several opponents without there being a TPK threat. We'll see what this mysterious minions rule is about.
However, the article appears to bring in the "news" that dungeons should now be run on the basis of encounters that span a few adjacent rooms instead of running encounters room-by-room.
This, for me, is a given and i've been doing that for quite some time. I hope and think that most DMs do. And i also hope and think that most DMs would think about the CR or EL of the entire dugneon area before setting the PCs to pit against the enemies therein.
In other words, what Mearls appears to claim as a novelty in 4E design, as far as i understand his contention, is pure obviousness to me.
I do not set up a 3-4 room encounters. The entire castle is a multi-room encounter. When the PCs arrive towards a room in a structure inhabited by enemies, i'll be looking at everything they do and have done to see how the enemies react. Assuming very good stealth during a sleeping period, they can take down enemies in their sleep. Assuming poor stealth, the entire castle minus the minimum sentries will be after them within a few minutes time, after having organized if possible and if they are of a type of creature that organizes. If the alarm is raised, there will be very few rare creatures singled out in rooms, they'll be massing together to find and take down the opponents in the best possible way. One such encounter occurred a year ago in my campaign, which led to 2 of the party dying, 3 being captured and 2 escaping. They didn't take the time to loot an underground temple before taking out the other inhabitants after that, let me tell you This is a rare circumstance, it requires a big venue with multiple enemies, but if the players fare baldy, things can and will turn very ackward for them. Otherwise, might as well let them kick in the door, kill the monster and take the treasure, basic-D&D style.
Also, very rare (though existant) are the creatures that remain in a room all day long. Think of people you know: how many actually remain in the exact same place day after day? None. People go out, eat, sleep, hire guards, buy from merchants, worship demons or whatever it is that they do.
This actually touches one point that i dislike in the recent encounter formats that i've seen in WotC products, e.g. 3.5 Raventloft. For each encounter, whatever the previous actions by the PCs, the creatures will be at exactly the same spot as marked on the mini-map that comes with the encounter description, waiting in ambush or whatnot. This is railraoding in its purest form IMO. There is no leeway for the DM in the adventure format which is suggested. You've done a great job in being stealthy? Screw you, you're still surprised by the monster in the closet!
Anyway, that's just my two cents. I haven't read that many adventures either, especially in the recent encounter format, so my impression may be unfounded. But i dislike static settings where X, Y, Z wait in a room, or two rooms, or three rooms, which is the same concept as far as i'm concerned, for the players to arrive before the encounter is triggered. I prefer to have a big encounter location with several enemies (if they are enemies) statted out, with a description of their activities and how might be there or not there at a given time, and if you really want to sugar-coat it then sure give a few concrete precise encounter possibilities such as if the enemies know about the PCs' presence and want to ambush them, or if they don't know anything but react to an alarm, and so on.
In summary, in my opinion the problem doesn't come from the fact that the monsters are all waiting in a single room instead of three as the author of the Des. & Dev. appears to suggest. The problem comes from the fact that the monsters are all waiting, period.
Sky | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6567 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 08/28/2007 2:40 PM |
| Sky, I do the same. When you really get into designing an adventure, you get a feel of how the NPC's will react. No matter how many rooms away they are.
I like to make routines that they follow, and if they coincide, they change based ont hat reaction.
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 08/28/2007 3:42 PM |
| | I don't think i understand what you mean by "if they coincide, they change based on that reaction". Care to expand? | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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