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Vrecknidj
Warlord
9938 Posts
    
United States
 | | 09/21/2007 7:39 PM |
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From Rich Baker's Blog:
A brief playtest note from last night's game, DM'd by Dave Noonan: I rolled not one, but *two* critical hits with fireball attack rolls last night. The second actually one-shotted a tough troglodyte skirmisher; just smoked him outright, full hp to dead in one go. Oh, and I had a great initiative roll, so it was the very first thing that happened in the fight. Hee hee hee! Scoring criticals with attack spells is *fun.* My warlord/wizard sure feels like he kicks some butt!
Dave
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Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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greyhaze
Warlord
5473 Posts
| | Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6560 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 09/21/2007 9:42 PM |
| | I do like the idea of critical hit with a fireball. | |
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Champion of Something, I imagine I will think of something
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minatoman38
Underboss
1341 Posts
Minaniuonuma-shi, Japan
| | 09/21/2007 10:09 PM |
| This seems to suggest that saving throws will be like the Star Wars Saga system. Rather than you rolling a saving throw against a DC the spell or affect rolls against the set saving throw number. I had mixed feelings about that aspect of Star Wars. | |
Robert Rosehart
Champion of the pixie
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Cthulhufnord
Warlord
10556 Posts
Umass Amherst Baby!
| | 09/21/2007 11:48 PM |
| Posted By Corim Danex on 09/21/2007 9:42 PM
I do like the idea of critical hit with a fireball.
Hmm... a Magic attack roll perhaps, with the targets AC based on magical bonuses and their wisdom bonus? | |
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Sean-Khan
Commander
2696 Posts
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
9938 Posts
United States
| | 09/22/2007 7:01 AM |
| I don't know exactly how this will work. Maybe the wizard casts a fireball and rolls a d20, adding some modifiers. That roll then is compared to the Reflex Defense numbers of each critter within the area of effect. Those whose Ref Defs are higher take half damage (or none with evasion), those whose Ref Defs are lower take the full fireball damage.
I'm guessing a spell like cloudkill will roll against Fortitude Defense, and a mass suggestion will roll against Will Defense.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
| Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6560 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 09/22/2007 9:32 AM |
| | So, the fireball could crit on one person in the area of effect and on none of the others? That kind of makes sense. It is interesting. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Ha 80/80---De 60/60---Ar 60/60---GoL 72/72---Ab 60/60---Dk 60/60---Af 60/60---Ud 60/60---WD 60/60---WDQ 60/60---BW 60/60---UH 60/60---NB 60/60---DDe 60/60---SSB 59/60 (Does anyone want to buy my SSB collection?)
Champion of Something, I imagine I will think of something
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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Wraithborne
Commander
3426 Posts
West Virginia
| | 09/22/2007 7:34 PM |
| Crit with a fireball is interesting, something i've always done for spells that require an attack roll, but I really hope they're not replacing the saving throw. A part of me very much thinks that they're leading all of the "Sacred Cows" to the slaughter just because they can, like at some point it ceased being about "How can we make this better" and changed to "How can we change this enough to justify new books."
Only time will tell, but in the meantime, speculation is all we have. | |
Hey Woman, Hey Woman!! Listen here. Since your ol' man ain't got no heart, maybe you'd like to see a real man. I bet you stay up late every night dreamin' you had a real man, don't ya'? I tell you what, bring your pretty little self over to my apartment tonight and I'll show you a real man!
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greyhaze
Warlord
5473 Posts
| | 09/22/2007 9:00 PM |
| | Saving throws are ok, but it ends being pretty much the same when a character has high defenses. I'd prefer saving throws to go. | |
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Shottglazz
Sergeant
879 Posts
Quinte West, Ontario, Canada
| | 09/23/2007 5:35 AM |
| | Hits like this are indicative of the Rolemaster system...there, any offensive action requires an attack roll, bolt spells, ball spells, weapons, etc...you can "critically hit" with a spell in that system too...interesting... | |
Shottglazz
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Wraithborne
Commander
3426 Posts
West Virginia
| | 09/23/2007 8:57 AM |
| Posted By greyhaze on 09/22/2007 9:00 PM
Saving throws are ok, but it ends being pretty much the same when a character has high defenses. I'd prefer saving throws to go.
I would much rather the roll for 1/2 damage or to get through metal resistance or whatever be made by the player as opposed to the DM doing to-hit rolls and doling out results. It lets a player feel a tad more in control of his PCs fate when he's the one slinging the dice. | |
Hey Woman, Hey Woman!! Listen here. Since your ol' man ain't got no heart, maybe you'd like to see a real man. I bet you stay up late every night dreamin' you had a real man, don't ya'? I tell you what, bring your pretty little self over to my apartment tonight and I'll show you a real man!
Ghouls: 1 Player Characters: 0 | |
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berus316
Sergeant
621 Posts
Markham, Ontario Canada
| | 09/23/2007 4:18 PM |
| | I like the idea... and I really like Vrecknidj's theory... that would be great and speed up things nicely. It might feel like you are taking away some rolls from the PCs but it would be quick and neat. | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3754 Posts
Adelaide
| | 09/23/2007 4:21 PM |
| Posted By Shottglazz on 09/23/2007 5:35 AM
Hits like this are indicative of the Rolemaster system...there, any offensive action requires an attack roll, bolt spells, ball spells, weapons, etc...you can "critically hit" with a spell in that system too...interesting...
It is something I quite like about role master too. (plus the crits are often so much dealier).
~
I often make the players roll the save against spells for the bad guys as it embiggens them.
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"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: Sometimes the road less traveled is less traveled for a reason. ~ Seinfeld
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 09/24/2007 10:54 AM |
| Posted By Wraithborne on 09/23/2007 8:57 AM Posted By greyhaze on 09/22/2007 9:00 PM
Saving throws are ok, but it ends being pretty much the same when a character has high defenses. I'd prefer saving throws to go. I would much rather the roll for 1/2 damage or to get through metal resistance or whatever be made by the player as opposed to the DM doing to-hit rolls and doling out results. It lets a player feel a tad more in control of his PCs fate when he's the one slinging the dice.
Actually, since the players would be making the attack rolls against the critters instead of the latter making saving throws, the players would be "in control" of as many rolls as they are with the present system. I.e. with the current system, players roll their own saving throws and critters roll their own saving throws; with the new system, players roll their own attack rolls and critters roll their own attack rolls. It's simply a switch between offensive rolls and defensive rolls.
If you're fond of players rolling more often then not, I recommend looking at the "players roll all the dice" variant rule from Unearthed Arcana that you'll find here http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedRolls.html (mod, please include as a link if you happen by this post, thnx!)
We've started using this variant rule in the last couple of sessions, but only had a short battle so it's still mostly untested. I like the idea myself.
Sky
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The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6234 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 09/24/2007 3:07 PM |
| I don't know how defenses or saves are done, but I like either one. Played 3.5 extensively, and I currently play a Saga game. Either works for me. But critting with spells sounds AWESOME! | |
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vanrulzz
Underboss
2294 Posts
¯\(°_o)/¯
| | 09/24/2007 3:32 PM |
| | hmm... like the rest of 4e im kinda neutral | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3754 Posts
Adelaide
| | 09/24/2007 4:57 PM |
| Posted By Skyscraper on 09/24/2007 10:54 AM
My mod stick doesnt work in here but high lighting and control+k works http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedRolls.html (& yes it should _just_ do it anyway)
~
Excellent link BTW. Likethe idea of using the bell curve 3d6 varient. I might try it. | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: Sometimes the road less traveled is less traveled for a reason. ~ Seinfeld
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
1549 Posts
Portland OR
| | 09/24/2007 10:15 PM |
| Saves need to stay... stop dumbing down things that are already as simple as they can get!
I mean, its not like we have saves vs. rod, stave, want, pet and poly, BW... remember that??? | |
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Sean-Khan
Commander
2696 Posts
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3754 Posts
Adelaide
| | 09/25/2007 4:28 PM |
| | {grin} save + 10 reminds me of working out Thac0 | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: Sometimes the road less traveled is less traveled for a reason. ~ Seinfeld
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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warty_nosed_goblin
Underboss
1384 Posts
| | 09/25/2007 7:31 PM |
| | I like it- it simplifies the game by removing unneseccary delays while still essentially accomplishing the same thing. Instead of having to hand the metaphorical dice back and forth all the time (OK Bob, I cast fireball, roll reflex. Well Bill, I got 15, OK Bob, that's half damage, so you take 8) all of the action is done by the, well, acting player (OK Bob, I cast fireball, got a 16 and rolled 16 for damage, how much do you take?) Seems far more elegant to me, and much more in keeping with the mechanics for attacks as well, cutting down on the stuff to know, which I find appealing to some degree. | |
Call me: W.N. Gobo!
originally posted by grim:
While he is clearly insane, he does have a point. | |
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berus316
Sergeant
621 Posts
Markham, Ontario Canada
| | 09/26/2007 5:46 AM |
| I agree with WNG, it does seem to be more elegant. I have often found playing a spellcaster to be a bit boring... I cast command, what happens? It feels like they are out of the equation, making caster rolls seems to correct that. Though I do know that some players love being able to save themselves with a good roll, ie a 20 on a WILL save or some such which might go missing with this change.
I lean towards elegant and quicker as of right now... | |
Champion of the Aspect of Gruumsh
Nemesis of Gnomes and Warforged
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| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10836 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 09/26/2007 6:55 AM |
| | Critting with non targetted spells is certainly a departure. Should be fun when that fireball pops for double damage. | |
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Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
8472 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 09/28/2007 7:59 PM |
| | As a guy who almost always plays a spellcaster, this is some fun news. | |
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Elenial Noial
Skirmisher
13 Posts
Dufresne, MB, Canada
| | 09/28/2007 11:45 PM |
| Cannot stand the idea. A spell is a spell. If you want to roll an attack with it then cast a spell which requires an attack roll. The amount of damage that can be done with a critical fireball/any mass destruction spell is staggering and quite ridiculous. I would say that if they're going this route, then consider the critical miss and dropping the fireball at your feet for double-damage. See how many people will like the idea after that happens a couple of times. | |
When the levee breaks, mama you got to move.... | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6234 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 09/29/2007 12:59 PM |
| Interesting that they'll make less dice for rolls like spells (to reduce variance) but increase crit capability (which increases variance)
However, the latter is all bonus, while the former is a zero-sum-equation variance. | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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