Posted By berus316 on 10/16/2007 12:21 PM


I'm excited about it and getting sick of people sucking that enthusiasm away with their negativity.

Posted By greyhaze on 10/16/2007 12:43 PM
What about those of us that are still on the fence, but don't like what they see in regards to specific aspects? Can we voice our opinions? Will you allow us to do that?

What about those of us that are still on the fence, but don't like what they see in regards to specific aspects? Can we voice our opinions? Will you allow us to do that?

Posted By Ghendar on 10/16/2007 1:04 PM

Posted By greyhaze on 10/16/2007 7:07 PM
But I like to bash things... I'm a hater...

Posted By Skyscraper on 10/17/2007 7:44 AM

Posted By Star on 10/19/2007 5:34 AM
WOTC has people to tell them how great they are - if they don't they should hire some because they're wonderful. I'm not that guy though.

Posted By greyhaze on 10/19/2007 7:46 AM
I'm totally gonna sig this.

Posted By Star on 10/19/2007 5:34 AM

As new information about 4e becomes available I post about it. I'm being unbiased. Some of my comments have been good but mostly bad. There hasn't been much that I've liked and nothing that's actually gotten me excited about the game. I will continue to post what I think about the changes that they are making to a game that I love.

WOTC has people to tell them how great they are - if they don't they should hire some because they're wonderful. I'm not that guy though.

Posted By Star on 10/19/2007 11:45 AM
Please change the credit to "unknown"

Posted By MuscledDestroyer on 10/31/2007 10:43 PM
   Me I'm not trying to be constructive. I'm pissed. Old system was fine could have made an upgrade book.Didn't need a whole new addition.Make a new world and simpler adventures.Stop with the lousy Monster Manuals; a book of TEMPLATES. Furthermore what does minis have to do with new rules.Why say old minis are no good for skirmish. Remember regardless of 4E you can use your D&D minis anyway to role play.Really they screwed skirmish and the $ value for sale or trade. Because we complained we got the card prints ( I hope they live up to it). If we would have just laid back we would have got totally burned and alot of people would have left. I still may . I'm waiting . I'm not buying cases either until I see the first of the old set prints. I'll get the stats and custom build for constructed. I have already started to replace D&D.

  Let the people at the company be " Constructive". I'm a customer and it seems your outlook is that people like me should give up and just buy more or leave. I doubt wizards shares your opinion. They want my 35yrs old and playin since I was 12 money; which carries alot of weight and they do watch these boards. There are  many people pissed about the minis and I dont have any idea how anyone at that company could have considered this as good news. Also the local stores are angry they're stuck with lots of stock . They had this in the works for a long time. Respectable business practice would've been to somehow work with them instead of pumping them with stuff thats impossible to move now. How on Earth is that good news to announce at a yearly convention. If I'd have went to Gen Con I would have felt even more hollow.

Good news your $20.00 minis and your $65.00 dollar minis are now totally worthless! Now pay us 16.00 and maybe you can pull this cartoony Lobster Beholder! Awesome!

Posted By MuscledDestroyer on 10/31/2007 10:55 PM
Also I'm fortunate I have loads of 3.5 and I'm gonna buy alot of Goodman adventures. I'm not touchin the 4E roleplay the old edition was fine. A few home rules (and I mean very few) and 3.5 is pretty much perfect . Plus I also haven't heard anything to make me believe this an improvement .

Posted By Skyscraper on 11/01/2007 11:32 AM

This being said, please go on playing 3.5. Maybe i'll just do that myself. No one is asking you to stop. I'm still dumbfounded by that sky-is-falling attitude towards new 3.5 material being discontinued.

Sky

Posted By MuscledDestroyer on 11/01/2007 9:10 PM
  Maybe I'm just more decisive. I look at both sides and then come to a conclusion. One thing is for sure ;#1 is the customer. Rationally you cant stop the books now; everybody understands that. It's still wrong. The minis was a slap.Period . Unecessary. Just for money and in the process takes money away from me for things I purchased from them in the past. The product they sold me dont work no more GET IT! Thats the point. I wouldn't have been able to play tournaments with the stuff I had . So because its art everybody will not agree on 60 minis and be happy. If we were wrong we would have been ignored. We weren't so we got the card re-stats/reprints. An improvement would have been to announce they were doing that in the first place. It wouldn't have happened if we didn't bitch. It should have been done anyway. All skirmishers know that most cool hard fighting minis are badly overcosted. I'm sorry if you dont understand why people complain endlessly. They have invested thats why . You never crap on a good regular customer ever! The Drow book was great and Fortress of the Yuan - Ti looks great. If they want more money they have to buckle down and give us good art( I mean in total).Take the stories in new directions to make new money. Not books that tell us how to make templates. The customer comes first or else the stockholder gets nothing. One thing for sure when the company starts to have trouble the market bails on it. It looks like sharks in a frenzy.

 That said I think D&D sees it a little more the way I see it. I would listen not tell people to take a walk. I think they used sound judgement and listened to reason. A carpenter doesn't burn down the neighboorhood to build more houses.

Posted By MuscledDestroyer on 11/02/2007 8:39 PM
I just never saw the point in a new D&D . An ogre is still an ogre a dragon  is a dragon.

Posted By zenthrus on 11/02/2007 10:37 PM

The point to a "new" D&D is to increase sales. Why are new models of cars produced every year even though most years the changes are at best purely cosmetic? Why does a new ipod model come out so frequently?

In defense of 4E, there were some problems in the 3.0/3.5 system that were never adequately addressed (shapechanging in general, grappling, etc). These (and a few other) problems created situations where a simple combat could devolve into an unecessarily complicated and lengthy process. Other ares with room for improvement are the Challenge Rating system (seriously flawed), the ECL system (also seriously flawed), and problems with how classes are balanced (including mutliclassing wonkiness).

The initial argument from WotC seemed to be a desire to address these issues as well as streamlining the game process in order to allow for faster combats which require less time spent researching rules interactions. Sounds swell to me.

Unfortunately, then we start to see the scope of changes. Fluff changed for the sake of change. Races completely overhauled because concept artwork looked cool. Mechanical changes which reduce player involvement (saving throws functioning as armor class means the DM rolls the dice more and players roll the dice less) and a complete overhaul of monsters are not reassuring signs. Removal of 'save or die' situations and parts of the Digital Intiative appear to be moving a pen-and-paper game in the direction of video games. Since a new version of D&D will need new monsters that match the new artwork, the DDM line also had to be overhauled.

There is definitely a point to 4E. There are also a number of legitimate concerns raised as more information about the design scheme underneath the new edition is revealed.

Posted By Ghendar on 10/16/2007 1:04 PM
However, unabashed fawning can be equally sickening, imo. I'm not saying you are one of those, just sayin'.

And that's coming from someone who will buy a 4E PH.

Posted By Ghendar on 11/05/2007 9:37 AM

I'm now hearing that the PH1 will NOT contain the druid and barbarian. If that is true then I will not be buying the PH and will wait for the SRD instead.

Posted By nyjastul69 on 11/07/2007 8:11 AM
I think they've announced that there will be an SRD. IIRC it will require a license to use so i don't know if it will bge available on-line. I don't think it will be.

Posted By Ghendar on 11/07/2007 9:04 AM


And no doubt requiring us to pay for the priviledge right? Yeah, that's great news.