wicked cool
Underboss
2130 Posts
    
 | | 10/17/2007 12:41 PM |
| | Not sure if this question has ben asked or answered. Player chooses class such as monk that nots in core book 1 . will player need to bring core 1 and core 2 books to looks up standard rules? or will core 2 just have some different chapters than core 1? | |
The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
Vindicated-CHAMPION of the INTELLECT DEVOURER
i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
|
PaSquall
Underboss
1399 Posts
| | 10/17/2007 2:34 PM |
| I ask myself the same question.
Not much has been said about that AFAIK, but I doubt they will repeat all the standard rules in each PHB, or else everybody will complain that they're selling the same book with only a few different pages, and it may not sell...
OTOH, if new content ensures good sales for each subsequent PHB, what new content can it be ? New races, classes and skills are OK, but is this enough to fill a PHB every year ? Doubtful.
I'll look forward to see how they manage this.
| |
Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
|
Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 10/17/2007 2:45 PM |
| I wonder about this also. I'm not too fond of buying books on a regular basis, i was hoping for a similar system as 3.5 that would allow me to buy 3 core rule books and that's it. (Well, 6 core rule books considering that i also bought 3.0.)
However, if they issue no other book during the year and a single set of three rules book per year under the PHB/MM/DMG line, they might have enough stuff to fill them up. They've restricted themselves to 8 initial classes, including at least one (the warlord) that's new. They'll have many to pump into subsequent books.
I don't like where this entire thing is heading on the books side, i hope that most of the 3.5 core elements which will be present in 4E are transposed in the initial books. I hear for example that frost giants aren't going to be in the initial MM, that's a real bummer.
As for what is going to be core and what isn't... that's up in the air. Personally i don't really care since "core" is an expression to identify certain rules over others that have been issued later on. I have no problem in retaining only those rules that fit my playing style inside a single book, let alone refusing entire books at the table if i don't want them there. Still, i understand why this would be important for many players and i'm curious to see how they propose to handle that.
Sky | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
|
nyjastul69
Commander
2712 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 10/18/2007 10:41 AM |
| Posted By Skyscraper on 10/17/2007 2:45 PM
 I hear for example that frost giants aren't going to be in the initial MM, that's a real bummer.
Sky
Ummm... What!?Â
| |
In the constellation of
Cygnus, there lurks a
mysterious, invisible
force:
Rush | |
|
Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6934 Posts
| |
Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 10/19/2007 11:02 AM |
| Yeah, no frosties. (Got that in one of the WotC articles IIRC).
I hope they don't cut down on the iconic monsters too much initially. However, my impression is that this is exactly what they're going to do to ensure that people will buy ulterior 4E material. I was reading a post by Eric Mona (on EnWorld, i think) where he was saying that at Paizo, when they published anything relating to the core, iconic monsters, the reviews on Internet were super-positive and their sales for that product went up (thus, i assume, the reason why the recent pathfinder appears based on the classic monster races: goblins, orcs, ...). I can't imagine that WotC is blind to this kind of information, so i assume that they'll try to spread out the iconic monsters over different books to ensure that people buy regularly.
However, they can't really eliminate giants entirely from the initial MM, likewise for the demons, dragons and so on. So my impression is that we'll get a couple of giants and other iconic races in every MM. My only hope is that the MM-1 will have more stuff in it as a starter book, such as many undead, many base monster races (orcs, goblins, ...), ...
Sky | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
|
Star
Sergeant
978 Posts
New Britain, CT
| | 10/19/2007 11:30 AM |
| No Frost Giants in the MM1?
I can't think of anything to say about that which won't get my post deleted. | |
Champion of Gromph Baenre | |
|
thekidxii
Sergeant
464 Posts
No Yack. I said.. we need a DM not BM!
| | 10/19/2007 11:58 AM |
| OK. I've been trying to keep an open mind about 4e but it seems that every day I read somehting more that gets my dander up. Are they (wotC) intetionally trying to pissmeoff? (excuse my Russian).
***Note to WotC***
Speading out what used to be core content over many volumes is NOT EFFING COOL!
Regards,
ye 'ole cranky man | |
Champion of the dire hippo.
Audi Vide Tace
"Nothing matters but the weekend, From a Tuesday point of view" -Diamond & Zero | |
|
vanrulzz
Commander
2563 Posts
¯\(°_o)/¯
| | 10/20/2007 3:21 PM |
| what if the reason there is no frost giant core is there is NO FROST GIANT? that would suck. | | | |
|
Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6934 Posts
| | 10/20/2007 3:59 PM |
| | No, they said there is a frost giant, it just won't be in the first MM. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
|
wicked cool
Underboss
2130 Posts
| | 10/22/2007 6:31 AM |
| | People who play character types such as barbarian and paladin wonn be able to convert their pcs until the second core book comes out? i hope the rumor isnt true that both these class's are not left out of core book 1. Im playing a barbarian in my group and i am actualy one of the people looking forward to new rules. Will i now have to convert my barbarin to a fighter for a while? | |
The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
Vindicated-CHAMPION of the INTELLECT DEVOURER
i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
|
Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 10/22/2007 11:45 AM |
| I'm unsure about the up-to-date speculations on the 8 core classes present in the first PHB. However, i think paladin is one of them and barbarian is not.
Sky
| |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
|
Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 10/23/2007 9:54 AM |
| Barbarian has always been a core class.
Paladin was originally a prestige class.
If I may make assumptions, here's what I think is in:
Fighter
Wizard
Cleric
Bard
Rogue
Paladin
Barbarian
Ranger
What's definately out?
Sorcerer
Monk
Druid
What would the Warlord take up? May take the Ranger, Paladin, or Fighter spot. | |
Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai.  I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12482 Posts
The G Spot
| | 10/23/2007 10:22 AM |
| Posted By Kaya Kenobi on 10/23/2007 9:54 AM
Barbarian has always been a core class.
Paladin was originally a prestige class.
Paladin was originally a prestige class? Did I miss something?
No really, did I?
| |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM | |
|
wicked cool
Underboss
2130 Posts
| | 10/23/2007 10:24 AM |
| | isnt warlock in. maybe warlock takes sorcerer spot. warlord maybe takes paladins spot or rangers. Fighter would have to be in. i would say the only 4 that are safe are fighter,rogue,cleric,wizard. Barbarian hasnt always been core. Paladin could just be cleric with certain feats,etc. | |
The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
Vindicated-CHAMPION of the INTELLECT DEVOURER
i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
|
Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5104 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 10/23/2007 1:16 PM |
| I'd hazard the guess of:
Fighter
Rogue
Wizard
Cleric
Warlock
Paladin
Ranger
Druid
Reasoning:
1) Barbarians and fighters overlap too much. The barbarian doesn't have a distinct enough role to survive the "streamlining" process.
2) Sorcerers and wizards overlap too much. The sorcerer doesn't have a distinct enough role and the warlock is confirmed as a core class (design & development article)
3) Druids have a clear niche (shapechanger/hippy)
4) Rangers have a clear niche (archer--I would speculate that the two-weapon option might be dropped)
5) Paladins have a clear niche (holy warrior)
6) Clerics have a clear niche (healer)
7) Rogues have a clear niche (traps)
8) Bards seem too 'jack-of-all-trades' for a game design which focuses on clearly emphasizing party roles.
I suspect that either Ranger or Paladin might get the axe, since Hybrids aren't favorable to a "streamlined" system. I would suspect that Ranger would be more likely to get axed with Psions filling the gap.
Wicked Cool has it right that the only "safe" classes are Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, and Wizard (although Warlock seems pretty clearly included). | |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
|
Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5104 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 10/23/2007 1:17 PM |
| | On a related note, I would speculate that Gnomes are definitely out and Tieflings are definitely in. | |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
|
Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11768 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 10/23/2007 7:29 PM |
| Posted By Ghendar on 10/23/2007 10:22 AM Posted By Kaya Kenobi on 10/23/2007 9:54 AM
Barbarian has always been a core class.
Paladin was originally a prestige class.
Paladin was originally a prestige class? Did I miss something? No really, did I?
I believe Kaya might be mistaken. My first edition AD&D PHB has the paladin as a core class. The barbarian was a core class that came out later in the original Unearthed Arcana. I don't go back much earlier than that though, so maybe he knows something beyond what I know. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
|
Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 10/24/2007 10:01 AM |
| The original DnD, Paladin was a prestige class.
Barbarian... I can't remember... Ranger, I remember it used to be the broken class that started with 2HD instead of the usual one. And I'm talking the box sets. ;p
Bard was a prestige class then too. In 1st edition, the bard was a very cool class to have, and with the full potential of a rogue, fighter, wizard, and cleric.. Yeah, the Bard's a nice prestige class. 3rd edition, the bard was toned down (Maybe because the 2nd edition bard was overpowered) to be barely playable but still one of the most enjoyable classes I have played.
And, she, not he. ;) | |
Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai. I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
|
Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 10/24/2007 10:08 AM |
| Posted By zenthrus on 10/23/2007 1:17 PM
On a related note, I would speculate that Gnomes are definitely out and Tieflings are definitely in.
mmmm...
Tiefling? Why? It's too good, an ecl besides..
Gnomes, half-elves, elves, humans, dwarves, and halflings. Most likely in. Half-Orcs, might be out. Anyone want to take a gander at the race that would be in? I'm thinking along the lines of a non-monster, non-template (planetouched are templates that can be human, elf, halfling, etc... Maybe not your game but in mine, yeah!)Â race..
Hobbit? nah... Tolkien estate would flip again like they did in the 70s when DnD used hobbits.
I'm betting on warforged or something along that lines. | |
Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai. I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
|
Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6934 Posts
| | 10/24/2007 10:42 AM |
| Gnomes, Half-orcs are out.
Tieflings, Eladrin and Aasimar are in. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
|
wicked cool
Underboss
2130 Posts
| | 10/24/2007 11:46 AM |
| | why would half orcs be out? | |
The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
Vindicated-CHAMPION of the INTELLECT DEVOURER
i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
|
Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5104 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 10/24/2007 12:45 PM |
| Posted By Kaya Kenobi on 10/24/2007 10:08 AM
Tiefling? Why? It's too good, an ecl besides..
In the Design & Development article regarding warlocks it basically states that Tieflings had to be included in the core because the concept artwork was really spiffy. Not the best reason to make game design decisions, but what do I know?
| |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
|
Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6934 Posts
| | 10/24/2007 1:38 PM |
| Posted By wicked cool on 10/24/2007 11:46 AM
why would half orcs be out? iirc, they didn't generate enough interest. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing they've dropped 3 races to replace with the new 3 "cool" races, I just don't know what the 3rd drop would be.
Humans
Elves
Half-Elves
Halflings
Dwarves
Half-orcs
Gnomes
What's left? | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
|
Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7675 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 10/24/2007 1:45 PM |
| Posted By zenthrus on 10/24/2007 12:45 PM Posted" by="" kaya="" kenobi="" on="" 10="" 24="" 2007="" 10:08="" am="">
Tiefling? Why? It's too good, an ecl besides..
In the Design & Development article regarding warlocks it basically states that Tieflings had to be included in the core because the concept artwork was really spiffy. Not the best reason to make game design decisions, but what do I know?
I don't like it, too much closer to the "Humanization" of a fantasy world. Aasimar and Tieflings are majority human, after all.
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
PaSquall
Underboss
1399 Posts
| | 10/24/2007 3:20 PM |
| Posted By greyhaze on 10/24/2007 1:38 PM Posted By wicked cool on 10/24/2007 11:46 AM
why would half orcs be out? iirc, they didn't generate enough interest. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing they've dropped 3 races to replace with the new 3 "cool" races, I just don't know what the 3rd drop would be. Humans Elves Half-Elves Halflings Dwarves Half-orcs Gnomes What's left?
That would make 8 classes and 8 races.
And yes, I've still to understand why previous outerplanar creatures (aasimar, eladrin, even tieflings) are now core. Some of them were even uncommon or rare in their home plane... Cool concept art is not a good enough reason.
| |
Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
|
Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6934 Posts
| |
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12482 Posts
The G Spot
| | 10/26/2007 3:43 AM |
| Posted By PaSquall on 10/24/2007 3:20 PM Posted By greyhaze on 10/24/2007 1:38 PM Posted By wicked cool on 10/24/2007 11:46 AM
why would half orcs be out? iirc, they didn't generate enough interest. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing they've dropped 3 races to replace with the new 3 " be. And yes, I've still to understand why previous outerplanar creatures (aasimar, eladrin, even tieflings) are now core. Some of them were even uncommon or rare in their home plane... Cool concept art is not a good enough reason
The following message presented with tongue firmly in cheek.
Because aasimar, eladrin, even tieflings are kewl. Humans and elves are soooooo 1st Edition old man. Fast forward to the future and stop living in the past. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM | |
|
Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6934 Posts
| | 10/26/2007 10:57 AM |
| | Dang you young punks with your funny hair and u'r weird pants, get off my lawn! | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
|
PaSquall
Underboss
1399 Posts
| | 10/26/2007 5:07 PM |
| Posted By zenthrus on 10/23/2007 1:16 PM
I'd hazard the guess of:
Fighter
Rogue
Wizard
Cleric
Warlock
Paladin
Ranger
Druid
Replace "druid" by "warlord" and you're spot on.
| |
Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
|
Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7675 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 10/31/2007 2:05 PM |
| Posted By greyhaze on 10/26/2007 10:57 AM
Dang you young punks with your funny hair and u'r weird pants, get off my lawn!
And why is this flaming bag on my porch?
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|