minatoman38
Underboss
1363 Posts
    
Minaniuonuma-shi, Japan
 | | 10/29/2007 11:52 PM |
| I remember when the tiefling first appeared in Planescape. It was one of many interesting and well developed ideas for that setting.
The tiefling was a human with demonic heritage. This manifested in demonic traits such as glowing eyes or a demon's tail. However it varied from tiefling to tiefling. Some had the horns, some glowing red eyes, others red skin, etc. It was often a trait that could be covered up to avoid drawing attention to their heritage. Which you'd think is pretty critical given that particular heritage. I mean if a half orc is made to feel unwelcome...
Now all tieflings...seem to be exactly the same, bright red skin and horns. Hooves as well I think. I am not pleased with this. I mean I guess they now stand in nicely as Half-Fiends but I think they really lost the flavor that made them interesting to play in the first place.
They cannot blend into a society that would hate them because of what they are and they've lost the chaos edge.
Also almost all the tiefling minis seem to fail to capture what I think is what the designers (and me) secretly see the tiefling as. Even the new bright red cartoony tiefling.
Fantasy demon babes.
The Teifling wizard, Tiefling cleric and tiefling rogue all look like really conservative, demonic puritians. You'd think they were working for the other side.
The Blademaster (or whatever he was called) looks the part nicely and the Tiefling Captian from way back in the day had it right...in a kind of scary macho way.
If we are going to have a race of demon babes as a core player race (something I have mixed feelings about) at least make the minis look like what they were supposed to look like. | |
Robert Rosehart
Champion of the pixie
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nyjastul69
Commander
2712 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 10/30/2007 5:15 AM |
| | I've never understood the appeal of Tieflings. I've never used them in any of my games. I was never a fan of the Planescape setting either. That prolly explains it. | |
In the constellation of
Cygnus, there lurks a
mysterious, invisible
force:
Rush | |
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minatoman38
Underboss
1363 Posts
Minaniuonuma-shi, Japan
| | 10/30/2007 6:32 AM |
| I think they have the same appeal as the Drow. As a player race they are the redeemed bad guy or the anti-establishment hero. Cooler than drow from my point off view. | |
Robert Rosehart
Champion of the pixie
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6934 Posts
| | 10/30/2007 8:12 AM |
| | I think they're actually worse than the drow as player character races (in many respects). It does appear that they are taking on a particular hellboy look, although a few have goat legs and the rest have human legs, it's not much variety. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5104 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 10/30/2007 8:36 AM |
| The Tiefling Captain is macho? She must be proud (it's a female sculpt  ).
Tieflings are spiffy mechanically to play. Only ECL 1 with superior stats (the charisma hit is usually negligible) and abilities.
It does seem as though the concept artists seem to have one particular idea of what a multi-faceted, complex lineage should entail. Very essentializing. | |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2712 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 10/30/2007 9:07 AM |
| Posted By zenthrus on 10/30/2007 8:36 AM The Tiefling Captain is macho? She must be proud (it's a female sculpt ). Tieflings are spiffy mechanically to play. Only ECL 1 with superior stats (the charisma hit is usually negligible) and abilities. It does seem as though the concept artists seem to have one particular idea of what a multi-faceted, complex lineage should entail. Very essentializing.
Are they properly balanced as a LA1? If not, it explains why they're very popular.
Edit: Hmmmm... they're not in the SRD so I can't check. | |
In the constellation of
Cygnus, there lurks a
mysterious, invisible
force:
Rush | |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12482 Posts
The G Spot
| | 10/30/2007 10:07 AM |
| Posted By zenthrus on 10/30/2007 8:36 AM The Tiefling Captain is macho? She must be proud (it's a female sculpt  ).
Butch is her name. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
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Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM | |
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minatoman38
Underboss
1363 Posts
Minaniuonuma-shi, Japan
| | 10/30/2007 2:56 PM |
| Posted By Ghendar on 10/30/2007 10:07 AM Posted By zenthrus on 10/30/2007 8:36 AM The Tiefling Captain is macho? She must be proud (it's a female sculpt ). Butch is her name.
That is what I meant. She is fairly Butch. | |
Robert Rosehart
Champion of the pixie
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PaSquall
Underboss
1399 Posts
| | 10/30/2007 3:41 PM |
| Mmmmmmm. Tieflings... Bring me THIS one ! |
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Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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minatoman38
Underboss
1363 Posts
Minaniuonuma-shi, Japan
| | 10/30/2007 7:50 PM |
| That was how they looked in all the planescape art. I was looking at my new tiefling minis last night and the other thing that gets me about them is they look so practically dressed. The rogue in the cleric are so well armored they look like serious adventurers or something. The older wizard one as well. This is a race heavy on the fantasy side. Why are the dressing so conventionally. Why aren't they decked out like our many elf babes (wood elf skirmisher, evermet wizard, war singer, just to name a few) or like our drow in heavy metal (by that I mean sexy black leather not full plate) gear. For male tieflings the Blademaster looks the part but the new rogue is pretty plain. | |
Robert Rosehart
Champion of the pixie
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5104 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 10/30/2007 10:23 PM |
| | Hmm...maybe the concept artists (or more likely, brand managers/marketing directors/etc.) aren't too partial to perpetuating fantasy females as objects of sexual gratification. Just a thought. | |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
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minatoman38
Underboss
1363 Posts
Minaniuonuma-shi, Japan
| | 10/30/2007 11:26 PM |
| Um. Okay. That might be possible...
However they are the same brand managers/marketing directors/concept artists who came up with the range of elf babes. And the Art work I've seen for the possible cover of the new players handbook certainly doesn't suggest that kind of sensitivity.
But you could be right.
Although I think I got way into the point that really didn't matter to me here.
Why have they gotten so demonic looking. With the overally obvious-uniform demonic appearance they are pretty useless as a PC race.
They cannot blend.
If half orcs thought they had trouble for having an orc in the family tree how are the superstitious villagers going to react to somebody (or a whole community) with obvious demonic background...not well I'd guess. At least with the half orc in any but the most old school settings these days orcs can be included in society in some way (Long ago defeated orc tribes now work as laborers, barbarian orc traders visit to trade with villagers, etc). Same cannot be said for a Balor.
And the minis. Although I suppose they don't need to be sexy. They should at least be more dramatic. The figure you should say something about the heritage. The early ones were good. I mean the Teifling Captain was clearly a figure of demonic rage and the Blademaster looks like a manipulator.
The new ones are goodie-goodies. | |
Robert Rosehart
Champion of the pixie
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6934 Posts
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Wraithborne
Commander
4531 Posts
The Red Light District
| | 10/31/2007 7:16 AM |
| | Like the rest of the reimagined artwork, I really don't care for the new Tieflings at all. | |
Eye dun no why youse guys think im not relly a person im jimgang from canada but im moving to cali as soon as i get a master card
-Jimgang
May I mambo dogface in the banana patch?
-Steve Martin | |
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thekidxii
Sergeant
464 Posts
No Yack. I said.. we need a DM not BM!
| | 10/31/2007 8:51 AM |
| An observation/question:
Would Wraithborne turn his back on his own dog if it were labeled 4e?
(Kidding; mostly)
Blissfully awaiting the release of the new edition,
Kid
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Champion of the dire hippo.
Audi Vide Tace
"Nothing matters but the weekend, From a Tuesday point of view" -Diamond & Zero | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7675 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 10/31/2007 2:04 PM |
| Hmm, I would bet they want to keep them as Playable as possible. So, they're probably trying to show they can be Good as well as evil. But that really takes away the flavor when that becomes the norm. For reference, see: Every Drizzt Clone ever. makes CG "emo" drow more common than the evil guys!
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Wraithborne
Commander
4531 Posts
The Red Light District
| | 10/31/2007 7:48 PM |
| Posted By thekidxii on 10/31/2007 8:51 AM
An observation/question:
Would Wraithborne turn his back on his own dog if it were labeled 4e?
(Kidding; mostly)
Blissfully awaiting the release of the new edition,
Kid
If I had one...you bet!!  | |
Eye dun no why youse guys think im not relly a person im jimgang from canada but im moving to cali as soon as i get a master card
-Jimgang
May I mambo dogface in the banana patch?
-Steve Martin | |
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PaSquall
Underboss
1399 Posts
| | 11/01/2007 4:26 PM |
| Posted By zenthrus on 10/30/2007 10:23 PM
Hmm...maybe the concept artists (or more likely, brand managers/marketing directors/etc.) aren't too partial to perpetuating fantasy females as objects of sexual gratification. Just a thought. Very possible.
But mistake IMO.
WotC said that they wanted to grab a part of WoW and other MMO's audiences. Although not playing these games, I've seen tons of screenshots on the web and it seems to me female characters of these games are mostly on the cute/sexy side...
TSR used to be the leading force in RPGs. That's far away in time now. CRPGs and MMOs are today's leaders, and I'm not sure WotC have any other choice than following the trends that these games establish.
Just a thought, too.
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Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12482 Posts
The G Spot
| | 11/02/2007 8:57 AM |
| Posted By minatoman38 on 10/30/2007 2:56 PM Posted By Ghendar on 10/30/2007 10:07 AM Posted By zenthrus on 10/30/2007 8:36 AM The Tiefling Captain is macho? She must be proud (it's a female sculpt ). Butch is her name. That is what I meant. She is fairly Butch.
I got it. 
| |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM | |
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Cylerist
Skirmisher
10 Posts
Red Hill PA
| | 12/11/2007 11:46 AM |
| | I think that change happend when WotC moved the abyss to the elemental planes and made demons mindless killing machines, I assume that means tieflings are largley the result of a devil and mortal union - thus the "devilish" look they have. | |
Old School Greyhawk!
Protector of Gnomes, Killer of core Tieflings! | |
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