The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11456 Posts
    
In ur house, stealin' yur minis
 | | 11/14/2007 7:10 AM |
| Still not liking much of what I'm seeing.
WotC is fundamentally changing D&D mechanics, fluff, and history.
Multiple core (PH, DMG) books is my latest annoyance. Apparently, the druid and barbarian (two of my favorites)Â won't be in the first PH.
Still have no interest in DI beyond an NPC generator and want my print mags back.
My plan all along was to buy the PH and that's it. Now, I don't think I'm going to do even that because of the whole multiple PH thing.
More and more, I'm thinking my D&D future belongs with previous editions of the game.
Where do you stand on 4EÂ on November 14, 2007? | |
Ghendar - Now snark free!
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6033 Posts
| | 11/14/2007 8:11 AM |
| | I feel exhausted, perhaps my hate is dying down. I'm still at the wait and see stage, but more than likely I'll probably stick with 3.5 for a few years until all the kinks are worked out of 4e. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Demon Web, Darkenbeast in Feywild. | |
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GuJiaXian
Sergeant
652 Posts
Roswell, GA
| | 11/14/2007 8:19 AM |
| | I'm feelin' groovy. | |
"Clearly a case of too many hunchbacks and not enough mad scientists..." | |
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Beware of Kobold
Sneak
73 Posts
| | 11/14/2007 9:35 AM |
| I'm still pissed that a bunch of hack writers and designers think that they know what I want in a D&D game, and that what they think I want is idiot-proof rules, more "I'm an evil bad-ass from hell" tinge, super-ultra-extreme combat powers, and random pointless changes to background fluff that has existed since 1st or 2nd edition.
the only thing "extreme" about 4e so far, is my extreme dislike for everything associated with it. | |
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Wraithborne
Commander
3726 Posts
West Virginia
| | 11/14/2007 10:10 AM |
| | My hate has died down from my initial reaction, but not my opinion. It's neither warranted or wanted and I'll be sticking with 3.x. I still have yet to hear about anything that I liked other than the Dragon's Breath catching someone on fire. | |
This new learning amazes me Sir Bedevere. Explain again how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.
-King Arthur
Life is pain and we have to scrape the joy out of it every chance we get.
-Rod Kimble | |
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Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 11/14/2007 10:10 AM |
| I don't like it for the way the mechanics is being changed. It's sad to see that WotC is putting it together because for all those haters out there, how many will buy the books? I think the majority will, because they'll want to play in leagues anyways...
3e is still on the top as far as I'm concerned. Tieflings, like Drow, is something of mystique. And making Tieflings core only makes them less flavorful. So.... What am I going on about here? I don't like the game mechanics, nor do I like the shafting of gnomes.
Fluff changes, I can see... The DnD world grows and changes, look at the changes from 1st to 2nd edition. Look at how the big powers in 2nd shifted in ADnD. And look how it changed in 3rd edition. Fluff is fluff, that's why I don't get those books. I say that the players play in a realm where the gods are any of their choice, just because they're there. Who cares if Bane is made into Greyhawk? I don't... It could have happened because followers of Bane went there and he gained power there. A god only has power if it has followers, so just know that the history involved is based on that. Why was Cyrus a god in later editions?
So... fluff isn't why I'm upset, they can make it as if all the gods died and new ones took their places and I'd be ok with it. | |
Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai.  I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
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VFults
Sneak
106 Posts
| | 11/14/2007 11:09 AM |
| I'll still buy the core rules just to give them a read, but the more I learn of the changes to the game, the less it resembles the frpg style I prefer to game master. I don't see me dropping the Castles & Crusades rpg to play 4E.
Regards,
V | |
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zenthrus
Commander
4908 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 11/14/2007 11:15 AM |
| Posted By greyhaze on 11/14/2007 8:11 AM
more than likely I'll probably stick with 3.5 for a few years until all the kinks are worked out of 4e. So, you'll be waiting for 4.5? 
I'm not terribly thrilled with the mechanics which have been revealed so far. None of the major "broken" mechanics from 3.5 have been addressed, rather, the core mechanics (which generally work well) have been monkeyed with. What about grapple? What about shapechanging? What about turn undead?
I suppose the main argument for picking up 4e at this point is that I assume RPGA events will require it. None too happy about that. 
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Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6033 Posts
| | 11/14/2007 12:07 PM |
| | I guess. I'm currently waiting for Saga to release a new fixed edition of their rulebook. I'm refusing to buy until the majority of the book is correct. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Demon Web, Darkenbeast in Feywild. | |
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Fun Guy from Yuggoth
Cthulhufnord
Warlord
10864 Posts
Umass Amherst Baby!
| | 11/14/2007 6:24 PM |
| | November eh. If anything the stuff regarding the new edition has only increased my desire not to pick it up. I'm more than happy to go with a diffrent system for my Fantasy RPG games. | |
Pathetic Earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void - without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe - anything at all - you would have hidden from it in terror. | |
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berus316
Sergeant
647 Posts
Markham, Ontario Canada
| | 11/14/2007 7:03 PM |
| I think there hasn't really been any more information to make an educated opinion on anything yet.
I'm still interested to see where it's going.
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Champion of the Aspect of Gruumsh
Nemesis of Gnomes and Warforged
References http://maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12304
H/W List http://www.maxminis.com/hw_list.asp?user=berus316 | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11456 Posts
In ur house, stealin' yur minis
| | 11/15/2007 3:44 AM |
| Posted By berus316 on 11/14/2007 7:03 PM
I think there hasn't really been any more information to make an educated opinion on anything yet.
I disagree. I see ample evidence that WotC is fundamentally changing D&D and making it into something it never has been. They clearly believe that to be the right move. I don't, thus my resistance to 4E.
They say they want to make a better game. I haven't seen better yet, only different.
Posted By berus316 on 11/14/2007 7:03 PM
I'm still interested to see where it's going.
You know what? Even though I posted that statement above, I'm still genuinely curious about what they do. However, it's looking more and more like it's not what I consider to be D&D. They are making a completely new game from the ground up.
I had been planning on buying the PH, but now after hearing about this multiple PH nonsense, I'm not going to buy it after all. | |
Ghendar - Now snark free!
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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berus316
Sergeant
647 Posts
Markham, Ontario Canada
| | 11/15/2007 6:11 AM |
| I am interested in seeing what they have to offer. If it's good, then
great. If it sucks then great as well.  I like it when decisions are
easy.  They have given themselves plenty of rope to hang themselves
with right now.
I would love it if people would post their 4E leaks, cause I really have heard very little right now.
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Champion of the Aspect of Gruumsh
Nemesis of Gnomes and Warforged
References http://maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12304
H/W List http://www.maxminis.com/hw_list.asp?user=berus316 | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6033 Posts
| | 11/15/2007 9:11 AM |
| | Check the wotc site articles. There aren't really any leaks, just gathered information. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Demon Web, Darkenbeast in Feywild. | |
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Puggins
Sergeant
622 Posts
| | 11/15/2007 11:20 AM |
| I'm pretty pleased with the changes they've made so far. Every edition has changed some fundamentals of the D&D system, so I'm willing to see some monkeying around, as long as the end result is an improvement. So far, practically everything has been a very positive change.
Before I list a few, let me address one comment:
I'm
not terribly thrilled with the mechanics which have been revealed so
far. None of the major "broken" mechanics from 3.5 have been addressed,
rather, the core mechanics (which generally work well) have been
monkeyed with. What about grapple? What about shapechanging? What about
turn undead?
The core mechanic worked well in a mid-level, non-optimized game, but it broke down a bit at lower levels and spectacularly at higher levels. Take the example of wizard trying to cast defensively. Against an Orc at 1st level, a 14con wizard would have a +6 concentration, and so would need to roll an 10+ to cast a first level spell (the best he has) defensively, making the chances of survival dicey at best. At 5th level, the 14con wizard trying to cast a 3rd level spell (the best he has) defensively would need an 8+ (he now has +10 concentration). A bit better, but still not a sure thing.
Now zoom to 15th level. An 18con wizard (he has an amulet of health +4 by then, almost a given) casting an 8th level spell needs to roll 23 or more on a concentration check in order to succeed. Of course, he now has a +22 concentration check, making it literally impossible to fail the check, since 1's are not autofails on skill checks. Thus, at high levels, concentration becomes completely trivial- there's really no need to improve concentration much beyond 15th level, since you'll never be called upon to make a tougher check than 24 (to cast a 9th level spell defensively).
The same situation exists in practically every skill. low level rogues risk life and limb trying to tumble against orcs. Mid level rogues are more confident, but still run a risk. An rogue higher than 10th level or so literally can't miss a tumble check, period. The core mechanic works below 10th level or so, then it start showing some major cracks before falling apart in the high teens. Some changes to make it more uniform throughout were definitely needed.
So, in terms of things I like:
(1) Scaling core mechanic- great change. Makes high level play a bti more tenable.
(2) Skills- great change. a 20th level fighter should be better at sneaking around than a 1st level fighter, but should have major issues against a 6th level rogue who specializes in stealth. The new system seems to handle this well. Plus, it's incredibly easier to allocate skills.
(3) Handling Saving Throws like armor class- good change, though its virtues are fewer than the two I listed above. Any tweak that allows the players, rather than the DM, to roll more dice is a great change. My wizard always felt a little cheated in terms of rolling dice. Plus, I never knew whether or not the DM was "cheating" when th enemy saved against my spell. I'll miss rolling my own saves a tiny bit, but that's something I'm willing to give up. I have a feeling that players that prefer melee-types will find this change a bit distasteful. Still, an overall improvement in my mind.
(4) Simpler Monster Stat Block- GREAT change, and I can't see how anyone, especially 1e grognards, would find this change to be anything but wonderful. The new stat block (as seen on the spined devil) contains 100% of the information the DM needs to handle the devil in a combat and it takes up perhaps 25% of the space an old 3.x stat block would take up. This is spectacular stuff.
(5) Annual PHB/DMG/MM- I don't see the problem with these, since we were essentially getting them already. The PHB2 was extremely successful and well recieved, as wa sthe DMG2. The MM was up to #5, and you might as well say that the entire "Complete X" and "Races of X" were really just disjointed PHBs, while the "X-scape" and "X Codex" series were variant DMGs. The fact that they're just going to name them PHBs and DMGs makes their function a lot clearer, while handling the same function that these books had.
I'm disctinctly neutral on the flavor as of yet- let me see the final product first- but that I can always change. I'm skeptical about DDI, and have yet to decide whether or not I'm going to actually subscribe. But the system itself is looking pretty good.
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References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7231 | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7507 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 11/15/2007 12:18 PM |
| Im interested. I'll pick up the core books, but more than anything, I'm looking forward to a lighter release schedule. Easier on the wallet.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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wicked cool
Underboss
2091 Posts
| | 11/15/2007 12:35 PM |
| | when 3.0 came out i was pumped. was the best thing to happen to D&D and probably saved the game. i want 4.0 and if the chages overall are better then im for it. dont care gnomes didnt make the cut or tieflings are a core race as im the one who usually places the non humans in the group anyway. we need a page that covers all the concrete changes. i need more information on core books. if barbarians dont come out until cor 2 and i want to play a barbarian how many PH's do i need to worry about. If im a fighter do i need ph2? these are major issues for me. I like the changes to stats,spellcasting and encounters. If the online thing is free for the basics then it wil help out for our player who loves out of state. i like the new troll and like the idea of more powerful zombies. i still need way more information to form a true opinion. | |
The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
Vindicated-CHAMPION of the INTELLECT DEVOURER
i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
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minatoman38
Underboss
1346 Posts
Minaniuonuma-shi, Japan
| | 11/17/2007 4:56 AM |
| Originally I was fatalistically indifferent yet slightly hopeful I knew 4.0 was going to happen and it was going to happen soon. Thus fatalistic Hopeful because there where areas of change I would like　to see. I've enjoyed 3rd editions more as a player than as a DM. And I am primarily a DM.
Now I am fearful and fatalistic "dake".
I've been running SW saga for awhile and I think they've gotten some things right but they have screwed up a few things big time. If the new Force power system reflects the new approach to magic for wizards and clerics then D&D is done,
So I am fearful
Cause I love the game... Â | |
Robert Rosehart
Champion of the pixie
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vanrulzz
Commander
2505 Posts
¯\(°_o)/¯
| | 11/18/2007 7:35 PM |
| | All i gotta say is limewire is ur freind. dowload the books and print it at kinkos for less than it takes to buy the books, and youre set. | | | |
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zenthrus
Commander
4908 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 11/19/2007 2:59 AM |
| Posted By vanrulzz on 11/18/2007 7:35 PM
All i gotta say is limewire is ur freind. dowload the books and print it at kinkos for less than it takes to buy the books, and youre set. Downloading copies of WotC books and printing them at Kinkos constitutes piracy and copyright infringement. I certainly wouldn't suggest either of those activities.
Besides, Kinkos employees are supposed to ask for proof of permission before printing copyrighted material, so printing at Kinkos shouldn't be an option (same thing with other printers/copy centers/office supply stores).
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Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
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Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 11/19/2007 8:40 AM |
| ....
Broken mechanics? That's when you play like the players and introduce them to their own broken tactics.
Or like myself, I say it doesn't work like that, wall of iron fabricate... making thousands of swords... nah.. When one fabricate spell is done on a wall of iron, it breaks the wall of ion spell and disappears. | |
Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai. I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
|
Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7507 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 11/19/2007 1:41 PM |
| Posted By zenthrus on 11/19/2007 2:59 AM Posted By vanrulzz on 11/18/2007 7:35 PM
All i gotta say is limewire is ur freind. dowload the books and print it at kinkos for less than it takes to buy the books, and youre set. Downloading copies of WotC books and printing them at Kinkos constitutes piracy and copyright infringement. I certainly wouldn't suggest either of those activities. Besides, Kinkos employees are supposed to ask for proof of permission before printing copyrighted material, so printing at Kinkos shouldn't be an option (same thing with other printers/copy centers/office supply stores).
A lot of them have a PC that you can print directly from. Then, you take it to them for binding. It's their way of avoiding the topic, from what i hear from the employees. Yay for a lack of oversight!
Seriously, though, not only is it illegal, but it's literally stealing from the company you're wanting to support. It's stealing from Linae and Shoe.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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TYGRHobbes
Sneak
149 Posts
| | 11/19/2007 2:03 PM |
| They took away Power Attack!!! That's it! I'm done with 4e! No way I'm never gonna get it!
On a serious note..
I may get 4e when they are on DMG3, PHB3, MM3 or whatever silly system they do but it will defintely be years from now.
From what I've seen of 4e, it looks like an extended rules edition of the D&D miniatures game. Part of the essence of playing D&D is figuring out how many dice to roll, adding numbers, etc. etc. If it's going to be dumbed down to a miniatures game why bother getting it when I already have a D&D miniatures game? | |
Champion of the Lamia
www.tygrhobbes.com | |
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Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 11/20/2007 1:43 PM |
| I'm generally optimistic but still firmly into the wait and see position.
I like most of the proposed rule changes and look forward to seeing how the entire system works because the parts we've been explained look like puzzle pieces that obviously attach to others that are concealed right now.
I'm moderately happy about the fluff. Some stuff i don't like like ditching the Erinyes, but most of it is interesting to me including the new planes system for example and, yes, i do like the idea of the Tiefling as a core race because i like the outsider-blood running in mortals.
I don't like the multiple core books idea but realize that there is no other way for the company to continue publishing stuff than to sell yearly updates. I didn't buy any rulebook apart from the core books in 3.5 (i don't count adventures and the fiendish codexes as rulebooks) and i hope but doubt that i'll be able to play with only the 3 initial core books. If 4E sucks my dilemna would be settled :)
I'm profoundly disappointed about the DDI concept which appears like a money grabber that i will obviously not subscribe to and will remove some fun stuff from the previously free online material. I don't actually use the online material, but i like reading it, losing that is a bummer.
Sky | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
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PaSquall
Underboss
1399 Posts
| | 11/21/2007 2:59 AM |
| I'm in the same boat as Ghendar, there has been too much sacred cows slaughtering in 4E. I can't call this game "D&D" anymore.
I'll probably be able to play 4E in the future, I'll see then. But i'm not thrilled at all right now. from all I read until now, there's almost nothing I could take from 4E and add it to my 1E/2E/house hybrid... I think I'll keep on with it.
Oh, and changing crunch and fluff that actually WORKS to something brand new is a risky business. WotC should have learned the lesson with 3E, but that's obviously not the case.
We'll see in a few months. | |
Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7507 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 11/21/2007 8:25 AM |
| I'm feeling glad that new editions usually have slow release rates. This will give me some time alone with just the core books (at least the first three) to see if I need to make a larger investment. PHB, MM, and DMG are a given.
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 11/21/2007 8:47 AM |
| Posted By TYGRHobbes on 11/19/2007 2:03 PM They took away Power Attack!!! That's it! I'm done with 4e! No way I'm never gonna get it! On a serious note.. I may get 4e when they are on DMG3, PHB3, MM3 or whatever silly system they do but it will defintely be years from now. From what I've seen of 4e, it looks like an extended rules edition of the D&D miniatures game. Part of the essence of playing D&D is figuring out how many dice to roll, adding numbers, etc. etc. If it's going to be dumbed down to a miniatures game why bother getting it when I already have a D&D miniatures game?
That's what turns me off... PHB 2 will look exactly like the PHB 1, except with things added in or taken out. Yep. Very good marketing plan.
There's a reason TSR flopped... Do you see the resemblance? | |
Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai. I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
|
berus316
Sergeant
647 Posts
Markham, Ontario Canada
| | 11/21/2007 7:13 PM |
| Posted By TYGRHobbes on 11/19/2007 2:03 PM
They took away Power Attack!!! That's it! I'm done with 4e! No way I'm never gonna get it!
      Â
Where did you see this?
| |
Champion of the Aspect of Gruumsh
Nemesis of Gnomes and Warforged
References http://maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12304
H/W List http://www.maxminis.com/hw_list.asp?user=berus316 | |
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PrometheusEnslaved
Sneak
78 Posts
Central Florida
| | 11/22/2007 6:30 PM |
| I wholeheartedly support 4th Edition. And by that I mean I seriously hope this proves to be such colossal blunder for WotC that it cripples the company. Everything about 4th Edition smacks of shameless money-grubbing.
Was 3.5 perfect? No. But 4th Edition isn't going to be perfect either. There will always be imbalances or mechanics that don't quite intergrate as seamlessly as they'd like or myriad little issues that need to be tweaked. But you know what? The sourcebooks were never meant to solve all those issues. They were meant to lay down some basic guidelines, a system of game rules and mechanics, and nothing more. It was up to the DM and players to tweak the game, deciding what worked better or made more sense for them. That's what irks me about the neverending stream of updates and 'supplemental' material WotC seems bent on churning out. A 150-page supplement for $30? No greed there.
What bothers me most about 4th Edition is, as was previously stated, they don't seem to necessarily be addressing some of the more standout issues with the 3.5 mechanics. Instead, they're almost completely reinventing the wheel. While I'm not specifically outraged over the changes made to the 'fluff' I have to ask why they're being made. Couldn't they just as easily have created a whole new and separate RPG world with this new angle? Maybe like a comic book Alt universe or something? Or, hey, wasn't that the whole idea behind new campaign worlds? Of course, if you couple that with a whole new mechanics system, then you're talking an altogether different game. Why not go that route? Why mess up something that's already well-established and well-loved exactly as it is?
Kinda makes me think of when a successful movie franchise is given over to some dim-witted director who claims to be a fan yet still feels he can somehow improve upon the original by a studio that's as soulless as it is greedy. | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3898 Posts
Adelaide
| | 11/22/2007 7:30 PM |
| Posted By berus316 on 11/21/2007 7:13 PM Posted By TYGRHobbes on 11/19/2007 2:03 PM
They took away Power Attack!!! That's it! I'm done with 4e! No way I'm never gonna get it!
       Where did you see this?
-
http://www.gleemax.com/Comms/Pages/Communities/BlogPost.aspx?blogpostid=23612&pagemode=2&blogid=2076
Power Attack, I disown thee! Foul deceiver! False friend! Vile tempter! You promised fun and flavor, but you brought only arithmetic and delay. You offered wild, barbaric swings, but you bogged us down with attempts to maximize average damage. Begone! Thou art no rule of mine.
Looks like it will be replaced with a simply version eg fixed at -2 attack, -5 damage | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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berus316
Sergeant
647 Posts
Markham, Ontario Canada
| | 11/23/2007 5:24 AM |
| On the topic of a change to Power Attack.... Thanks the heavens.
The 2 fighter types in my game spend at least 5-10 seconds each time it's their turn to act, deciding how much to put into the attack (based on chances to hit), and virtually every time they miss because of it, get completely pissed off. I've always felt it was sort of greedy they way they try to maximize their damage. I really, really hate it.
I also 100% agree that a character would not be deciding in the midst of combat whether to swing harder by just a little bit as compared to full out.
Though someone's suggestion that they should trade AC for power attack seems to make a bit of sense to me here as well.
I'm willing to bet that they replace it as a Feat and make it a standard attack option. Change it to, you lose any Dex/Dodge bonus and -2 to hit, to gain your 1.5 (or 2) times your STR bonus to an attack.
Nice and simple and always the same, which makes more sense to me as well.
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zenthrus
Commander
4908 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 11/23/2007 1:21 PM |
| Also from the Power Attack article:
"1: Remember that this is me speaking personally as a game designer, not announcing anything one way or another regarding 4E."
So, Power Attack may or may not get the axe. Granted, anything that requires less thinking/math/decision-making seems to be the direction 4E is heading, so I could see Power Attack getting a makeover. | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2710 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 11/24/2007 8:49 AM |
| Posted By zenthrus on 11/23/2007 1:21 PM
Also from the Power Attack article:
"1: Remember that this is me speaking personally as a game designer, not announcing anything one way or another regarding 4E."
So, Power Attack may or may not get the axe. Granted, anything that requires less thinking/math/decision-making seems to be the direction 4E is heading, so I could see Power Attack getting a makeover.
I agree, RPGers should not have to do math or think. Both are hard to do. Things that are hard should not be in 4E. Sorry for the sarcasm. This whole dumbing the game down is annoying. | |
You know, I keep thinking that after the new design team gets done with D&D 4e, D&D won't stand for Dungeons and Dragons anymore, because well, that's just not fun. It's old and stuffy. - Originally Posted by BabWryter on Kenzerco.com | |
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Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 11/26/2007 8:19 AM |
| meh....
I hope that WotC doesn't see a flop. Hasbro would kill DnD because it would flop.
It won't flop because it won't. There will be many people that will get into 4e, and it seems that WotC is indeed catering to the younger generation... Practical Guide to Monsters, I saw it at Wal-Mart, is all cutsied up with a little goblin as the hero...
Just look at it. | |
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I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai. I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11456 Posts
In ur house, stealin' yur minis
| | 11/26/2007 8:41 AM |
| Posted By Kaya Kenobi on 11/26/2007 8:19 AM
 Hasbro would kill DnD because it would flop.
It that were to happen, and if Paizo could afford to buy the game, I'd be okay with that. I truly do not like (based on what I've seen so far) the direction WotC is taking the game. Lots of ifs though and you're right. It won't fail because it will have the brand recognition of the D&D name on it. | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6033 Posts
| | 11/26/2007 2:01 PM |
| | I'd be very curious to see what would happen to D&D if hasbro "killed it" and Paizo took over... very curious. | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3898 Posts
Adelaide
| | 11/26/2007 5:30 PM |
| | I bet it (books, modules, etc) would cost a whole lot more under Paizo | |
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zenthrus
Commander
4908 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 11/26/2007 9:49 PM |
| Posted By Bert the Troll on 11/26/2007 5:30 PM
I bet it (books, modules, etc) would cost a whole lot more under Paizo And have crappy shipping times
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Cthulhufnord
Warlord
10864 Posts
Umass Amherst Baby!
| | 11/26/2007 10:16 PM |
| Hmm... I think my stance can be summed up with one prase. Â No Sir, I don't like it. |
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Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7507 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 11/27/2007 1:15 PM |
| Posted By zenthrus on 11/26/2007 9:49 PM Posted By Bert the Troll on 11/26/2007 5:30 PM
I bet it (books, modules, etc) would cost a whole lot more under Paizo And have crappy shipping times 
Looking at what they charge for minis already (singles) DDM would get the axe too...
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