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Subject: The New Quest System

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vanrulzz
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¯\(°_o)/¯

11/22/2007 7:22 PM Alert 
In D&D, the words "adventure" and "quest" are virtually synonymous. They both mean a journey, fraught with danger that you undertake for a specific purpose. We sometimes joke that the game is all about killing monsters and taking their stuff, but the reality is that the game is about adventures. You go into the dungeon and kill monsters with a larger purpose in mind: to stop their raids on caravans, to rescue the townsfolk they've captured, to retrieve the lost Scepter of the Adamantine Kings for the rightful descendant of those kings.

Quests are the story glue that binds encounters together into adventures. They turn what would otherwise be a disjointed series of combats and interactions into a narrative -- a story with a beginning, a middle, and a climactic ending. They give characters a reason for doing what they do, and a feeling of accomplishment when they achieve their goals.

Quests can be major or minor, they can involve the whole group or just a single character's personal goals, and they have levels just like encounters do. Completing a quest always brings a reward in experience points (equal to an encounter of its level for a major quest, or a monster of its level for a minor quest), and it often brings monetary rewards as well (on par with its XP reward, balanced with the rest of the treasure in the adventure). They can also bring other rewards, of course -- grants of land or title, the promise of a future favor, and so on.

The idea of quest rewards is nothing new to D&D. Second Edition, in particular, promoted the idea of giving story rewards of experience points when players completed adventures. The quest rules in 4th Edition are directly descended from that idea, integrated into the economy of rewards in the game. They're a rules wrapper around the story of the game, a way to keep players mindful of the purposes behind all their adventuring.

One of the suggestions in the 4th Edition Dungeon Master's Guide is to give players a visual, tactile representation of a quest as soon as they begin it. At the start of the adventure, after the baron has briefed the characters on their mission and been bullied into paying them more than he intended, you can hand the players an index card spelling out the details of the quest -- including the agreed-upon reward. In the middle of the adventure, when the characters find a key with a ruby set in its bow, you can hand them a card, telling them that finding the matching lock is a quest.

When the players have cards or some other visual representation of their quests, it's easy for them to remember what they're supposed to be doing -- and to sort out goals that might be contradictory. That's a really interesting ramification of the quest system: It's okay to give the players quests they don't complete, quests that conflict with each other, or quests that conflict with the characters' alignments and values.

For example, the mentor of the group's paladin might ask him to find and destroy the Ruby Tome of Savrith the Undying. At the same time, a shady character is offering the rogue a sizable sum in exchange for the same tome, and the wizard's research turns up a reference to a ritual contained in the Ruby Tome that the characters will need to use in order to complete another quest. Three quests stand at odds, and it's up to the players to decide what they want to do.

There's a story that's a lot richer and more interesting than simply going into the dungeon to see what treasure is there.






Help!!! The wrold of Warcraft parallels are killing me!


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Bert the Troll
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Adelaide

11/22/2007 7:34 PMAlert 
Doesnt seem over new to me, though dont follow the nuts and bolts approach to 3x. Does seem more idiot proofing than anything.

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West Virginia

11/23/2007 4:27 AMAlert 
In the middle of the adventure, when the characters find a key with a ruby set in its bow, you can hand them a card, telling them that finding the matching lock is a quest.


So should we give them a card with a little red fish on it if they find something that's not important? I've had many great adventures stem from PCs thinking something was irrelevant or dungeon dressing or what have you. Deciphering clues and sifting through misinformation and red herrings have always been an important part of the game. What's next, describing NPCs with something important to say as having a light bulb over their head? Or perhaps they'll just say "Here, take my hand and let me walk you through this adventure."

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zenthrus
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SLC, UT

11/23/2007 1:17 PMAlert 
4E Quests: Rewards for players who are too lazy to take notes.

Next up is the dungeon auto-mapper

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nyjastul69
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11/24/2007 8:58 AMAlert 
Lazy players should be rewarded. Industrious players should be punished in 4E, they make lazy players look bad. So very sad.


You know, I keep thinking that after the new design team gets done with D&D 4e, D&D won't stand for Dungeons and Dragons anymore, because well, that's just not fun. It's old and stuffy. - Originally Posted by BabWryter on Kenzerco.com
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11/26/2007 6:36 AMAlert 
WARNING - Post reformatted

In D&D, the words "adventure" and "quest" are virtually synonymous. They both mean a journey, fraught with danger that you undertake for a specific purpose. We sometimes joke that the game is all about killing monsters and taking their stuff, but the reality is that the game is about adventures. You go into the dungeon and kill monsters with a larger purpose in mind: to stop their raids on caravans, to rescue the townsfolk they've captured, to retrieve the lost Scepter of the Adamantine Kings for the rightful descendant of those kings.


Quests are the story glue that binds encounters together into adventures. They turn what would otherwise be a disjointed series of combats and interactions into a narrative -- a story with a beginning, a middle, and a climactic ending. They give characters a reason for doing what they do, and a feeling of accomplishment when they achieve their goals.


Quests can be major or minor, they can involve the whole group or just a single character's personal goals, and they have levels just like encounters do. Completing a quest always brings a reward in experience points (equal to an encounter of its level for a major quest, or a monster of its level for a minor quest), and it often brings monetary rewards as well (on par with its XP reward, balanced with the rest of the treasure in the adventure). They can also bring other rewards, of course -- grants of land or title, the promise of a future favor, and so on.


The idea of quest rewards is nothing new to D&D. Second Edition, in particular, promoted the idea of giving story rewards of experience points when players completed adventures. The quest rules in 4th Edition are directly descended from that idea, integrated into the economy of rewards in the game. They're a rules wrapper around the story of the game, a way to keep players mindful of the purposes behind all their adventuring.


One of the suggestions in the 4th Edition Dungeon Master's Guide is to give players a visual, tactile representation of a quest as soon as they begin it. At the start of the adventure, after the baron has briefed the characters on their mission and been bullied into paying them more than he intended, you can hand the players an index card spelling out the details of the quest -- including the agreed-upon reward. In the middle of the adventure, when the characters find a key with a ruby set in its bow, you can hand them a card, telling them that finding the matching lock is a quest.


When the players have cards or some other visual representation of their quests, it's easy for them to remember what they're supposed to be doing -- and to sort out goals that might be contradictory. That's a really interesting ramification of the quest system: It's okay to give the players quests they don't complete, quests that conflict with each other, or quests that conflict with the characters' alignments and values.


For example, the mentor of the group's paladin might ask him to find and destroy the Ruby Tome of Savrith the Undying. At the same time, a shady character is offering the rogue a sizable sum in exchange for the same tome, and the wizard's research turns up a reference to a ritual contained in the Ruby Tome that the characters will need to use in order to complete another quest. Three quests stand at odds, and it's up to the players to decide what they want to do.


There's a story that's a lot richer and more interesting than simply going into the dungeon to see what treasure is there.







Help!!! The wrold of Warcraft parallels are killing me!


I had to reformat your post Van. Sorry, but trying to read it that way was giving me a headache.


The details of my life are quite inconsequential... very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner and RPG designer from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute and RPGA certified DM named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark and THAC0. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons, D&D every night. In the spring we'd make meat helmets for LARP. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag, forced to walk the walk of a thousand four siders, and beaten with reeds- pretty standard really. At the age of twelve I received my first scribe, which was very handy for D&D. At the age of fourteen a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles for LARP. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum... it's breathtaking- I highly suggest you try it.


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Teflon Jeff
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11/27/2007 1:16 PMAlert 
Seems like an easy way to get beginners in the game. Face it, advanced players are doing their own thing anyway.

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PaSquall
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11/28/2007 9:37 AMAlert 
Posted By vanrulzz on 11/22/2007 7:22 PM

One of the suggestions in the 4th Edition Dungeon Master's Guide is to give players a visual, tactile representation of a quest as soon as they begin it. At the start of the adventure, after the baron has briefed the characters on their mission and been bullied into paying them more than he intended, you can hand the players an index card spelling out the details of the quest -- including the agreed-upon reward. In the middle of the adventure, when the characters find a key with a ruby set in its bow, you can hand them a card, telling them that finding the matching lock is a quest.

WotC have really made the assumption that today's kids/adolescents are utterly stupid and lazy.
And yeah, finding a door... Talk of a fascinating quest...

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Bert the Troll
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Adelaide

11/29/2007 3:57 PMAlert 
Plus think of the potential.

Randomised collectable quest card parks. You could probably make a seperate card game to go with it, so you can play. rpg & collect with them

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zenthrus
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11/29/2007 10:44 PMAlert 
Posted By Bert the Troll on 11/29/2007 3:57 PM
Plus think of the potential.

Randomised collectable quest card parks. You could probably make a seperate card game to go with it, so you can play. rpg & collect with them
You laugh....


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11/30/2007 5:10 AMAlert 
Posted By Bert the Troll on 11/29/2007 3:57 PM
Plus think of the potential.

Randomised collectable quest card parks. You could probably make a seperate card game to go with it, so you can play. rpg & collect with them


Deal a Dungeon

4dv3ntur3
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Ravage the land as never before,
Total destruction from mountain to shore!!!!

Kaya Kenobi
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11/30/2007 8:01 AMAlert 
I do that... I just roll a d100 and it comes up with an adventure, and if I need a dungeon I use my computer to use a program to randomly create a dungeon.

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12/03/2007 11:22 AMAlert 
Posted By Wraithborne on 11/30/2007 5:10 AM
Posted By Bert the Troll on 11/29/2007 3:57 PM
Plus think of the potential.

Randomised collectable quest card parks. You could probably make a seperate card game to go with it, so you can play. rpg & collect with them


Deal a Dungeon


Dial a Dragon...

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magefire
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02/01/2008 12:31 AMAlert 
What? Players should have a card that tells them what quest they are on? Are we getting dumber? Seriously. I need to know. When did playing D&D become a video game and stop being about interaction and figuring things out on your own? If my players are stupid enough to need to be told they now need to find the lock the key goes to, then I RREEALLY need new players. Man, I can see it now. Those quest packs are going to sell so well. "No, wait, you can't do that! The card says you have to find the door!"

yack
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02/06/2008 5:24 AMAlert 
This sounds all too video game to me... what happened to the roleplaying. Hate the card idea.

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02/06/2008 6:53 AMAlert 
has anyone else figured out that they are not marketing this game to older players???? When i first started this game i was seven. My dm was 9 at the time. Im now 38 and i approach a dungeon a lot different from when i was 8. Just because you dont need a quest card doesnt mean they cant throw the idea out there to younger gamers.

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02/07/2008 2:42 PMAlert 
Hook em while they're young...

Seriously, though, childhood memories go a long way towards making a brand last.

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