Posted By Puggins on 12/07/2007 8:46 AM

And remember that #1 the Barbarian was not "core" (applying modern terminology to older editions... you know what I mean) in either 1e or 2e, and #2 the druid was taken out of 2e due to lack of popularity. If the druid wasn't popular enough, then pushing it aside temporarily would make sense. Unlike the bard or monk, the druid has no issues with lack of power. If it's still unpopular as the most powerful class in the game, then good riddance (for now).

Posted By Puggins on 12/07/2007 8:46 AM
If the druid wasn't popular enough, then pushing it aside temporarily would make sense. Unlike the bard or monk, the druid has no issues with lack of power. If it's still unpopular as the most powerful class in the game, then good riddance (for now).

Posted By greyhaze on 12/07/2007 11:56 AM
I'm getting the distinct impression that you will be fine with whatever wotc hands us.  Which I guess is okay, I can live with that.  But, based on that last sentence, you're just not making any sense anymore.  You seem to be trying to delude or jedi mind trick us to feel the same way, and I'm not going to.  I am trying to take things impartially as they come out, but this "teaser" BS they are doing doesn't work for this kind of product.

Splitting up the core classes in to several releases pisses me off.  IF they are NOT in the FIRST book they are not CORE (by my own definition, call it what you will).  If I have to buy suppliments to get the BASICS I will be very disgruntled.  I'm not saying everyone is up in arms about it, I AM.

Posted By Puggins on 12/07/2007 8:46 AM
Nothing I have seen implies that they burnt D&D to the ground. The new rules are, if anything, more consistent with core elements of old D&D.

Posted By Ghendar on 12/07/2007 7:17 PM





Funny I seem to remember the exact same thing being said about 3E.


And 2E


And Unearthed Arcana (1983)


*Shrug*

Posted By Puggins on 12/07/2007 8:46 AM
Nothing I have seen implies that they burnt D&D to the ground. The new rules are, if anything, more consistent with core elements of old D&D.

* 4e skills are now a hybrid of 1e's non-weapon proficiencies and 3.x's skill system. You get the fun of skill checks, but lose the tedium of trying to figure out your skill bonus and spending oodles of time setting up skill ranks. Again, I think this is taking what was good about older editions and using them to improve 3.x edition.

* No one has confirmed that the barbarian and druid are out. There's rampant speculation, but that's all. They are both mentioned in Races and Class, so you know they're still in the mix.

And remember that #1 the Barbarian was not "core" (applying modern terminology to older editions... you know what I mean) in either 1e or 2e,

and #2 the druid was taken out of 2e due to lack of popularity.

If the druid wasn't popular enough, then pushing it aside temporarily would make sense. Unlike the bard or monk, the druid has no issues with lack of power.

If it's still unpopular as the most powerful class in the game, then good riddance (for now).

Posted By Pale Rider on 12/08/2007 8:59 PM

Funny I seem to remember the exact same thing being said about 3E.

And 2E

And Unearthed Arcana (1983)

*Shrug*

Posted By Ghendar on 12/10/2007 4:29 PM

You didn't hear me saying it though.

I welcomed 3E because I felt it was necessary to keep D&D alive. Was I happy with everything they did? No, of course not, but I was willing to accept those changes for the greater good. I think 3E was needed. 4E in my estimation is not needed. Worse still, WotC is moving away from D&D's roots.

Again, my issue is not with change necessarily. My issue is with the particular change that WotC is embracing.  I have an issue with their design philosophy. I will be playing 4E when it comes out but I'm not sure it will be what I consider to be D&D. Large issue for me, not so much for others.

Posted By Pale Rider on 12/11/2007 8:12 AM

So you'll be playing it but not liking it?  I have to ask why you would be playing it then?

If they get you to switch it would seem to be a successful edition wouldn't it?  It really seems you are trying hard to be offended that WotC has dared to make a new edition before you were ready.Â

Posted By greyhaze on 12/05/2007 12:55 PM
Enough of the vague tidbits from Design & Development, what I want to see right now, are 2 things;

1. A list of the player character races in the 1st PHB 4e.

2. A list of the player character classes in the 1st PHB 4e.

That'd about do it.  Call it piece of mind, call it what you will, but these 2 things are really the biggest things bugging me about the silence from the dev team right now.