minatoman38
Underboss
1341 Posts
    
Minaniuonuma-shi, Japan
 | | 12/09/2007 7:33 PM |
| It seems something we are likely to see in the next edition is a simplification of a lot of the races and creature types. Rather than completely different stats for each variation on a creature they are going to be attributed to cultural differences.
This is something I like.
In the first monster manual I would love to see just an entry called...
Giant
All basic giants would have the same basic stats and most likely a racial ability called environmental adaption giving the ones that live an extended time in an extreme environment a related energy resistance (no vulnerability). Then with one entry we have all the giants we currently have. Challenge ratings would vary based on class levels added to the giants. The only giants that would need distinct entries would be the really odd ones such as Ogres (degenerate or primative giant-ken filling the roll they currently fill as well as the hill giant slot), Cyclops and Ettins (oddly twisted giant-kin) and Titans (the really big primal giants both good and bad)
This could work for a number of creatures. Other good examples.
The Naga
They are all basically the same. Sure some have different specialities but that could be reflected in class levels added onto the base creature. A Guardian Naga could be a Paladin or Cleric type and a dark Naga a warlock type.
Dragons
It will never happen but why not. In most fantasy literature dragons color has little to do with its character. In fact the association of color and alignment in D&D is a tad uncomfortable as it is. Dragons could be born in hatches with different color dragons born to a single hatch. Most grow to have fire breathing abilities although some develop other types based on environmental influences. Thus dragons from a wintery environment will be more likely to have a coloration based on where they are from (silver or white) and have their breath weapon reflect that but it doesn't have to be as rigid as it is now. And again it would mean one entry per creature. Rather than ten pages of dragon-types it could be four or five pages on dragons and we would get to keep the age catagories from hatchling on up.
This would mean future monster manuals might have the spirit naga (Naga Psion?) and the Frost Giant Jarl (High Level Giant Barbarian) but they will be samples of creatures with class levels instead of independent races. They do that now anyway. | |
Robert Rosehart
Champion of the pixie
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
5473 Posts
| | 12/10/2007 9:42 AM |
| Interesting thoughts.
The end result of what you are proposing, ends up "almost" the same. You end up with Giants that are frost resistant/immune, which in miniature form are frost giants, but part of some clan instead of being labeled a Frost Giant, they're "Giant of Frostclan". The only thing I could see being better about the old system vs u'r proposal is that the old system allows for scale variances and racial traits (like blue skin vs black vs grey vs green) instead of a very eclectic group of related giants. A cloud giant can be huge, while a Taer is medium and a Frost Giant is large.
Sometimes defining traits are needed to keep players interested. Running a world where every encounter is a guessing game is almost as frustrating as running a game where every encountered is the same ol'.
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Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
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Called Shots: Ghast in Against the Giants, Darkenbeast in Demon Web. | |
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Wraithborne
Commander
3426 Posts
West Virginia
| | 12/10/2007 10:06 AM |
| I think it would definitely be a bad thing, but I'm more of the camp that thinks monsters with class levels in a Monster Manual reeks of "We need 30 more pages and we're outta ideas for monsters." Just feels like a rip off to me.
I dunno, maybe it also has something to do with me already having seen more needless changes than I can stomach without reinventing stuff that is as classic as a Frost Giant or Green Dragon. Then again, maybe it has a little to do with me being cranky about having the highest scoring team in my Fantasy Football League by nearly 300 points and not making the playoffs. Either way, I don't like the idea. | |
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wicked cool
Underboss
2017 Posts
| | 12/10/2007 10:43 AM |
| | i doubt that would happen. i agree with Wraithborne that it would be a bad idea. I dont have a probelm with the green as much. Its just a horn. Easy to modify. I made my fantasy playoffs. Down to final 4. Show me the money!! | |
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Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6234 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 12/12/2007 5:18 PM |
| I prefer a creation distinction amongst my races.
there are different giants because they were made separately by the same deity. They are distinct races.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
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minatoman38
Underboss
1341 Posts
Minaniuonuma-shi, Japan
| | 12/13/2007 3:53 PM |
| Okay, But what about goblins. In the early monster manuals orcs and goblins were said to be different colored with different features depending on the clans yet they all fell under one entry. Again they were separate races created by one diety. Just like Giants. The argument being that there aren't enough differences between the clans to merit separate entries. However I'd agrue that the same is true of the giant.
Basically they are all big guys who hit hard and throw stuff.
As for adding class levels. That would not be necessary. The new system for monsters seems to be this skirmisher level thing. A DM or adventure designer should be able to move a creatures skirmisher level up and down a notch or two to keep the players from being to sure of what they are facing.
Unless a giant really does has alternate abilities (beyond a varient energy resistance) then I don't see the point in 10 pages of giant types. Moving the strength score one or two places and adding a hit die or two seems more like customing a single race than defining a different race. | |
Robert Rosehart
Champion of the pixie
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
5473 Posts
| | 12/13/2007 5:21 PM |
| There's a fair bit of flavour injected in to each of the main giant races, besides energy resistances, and other than stat, colour, energy types and size differences, what distinguishes a race then anyways? Giant is more like a class of creature, they all share certain traits, but are distinct enough to stand out from one another.
Would Drow and High Elves be joined up? Duergar and Hill Dwarves? Just curious. The MM would become pretty thin, which might not be such a bad thing. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Ghast in Against the Giants, Darkenbeast in Demon Web. | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6234 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 12/14/2007 9:16 AM |
| | In a Dragon a while back, there was an artcle about making races altered, and had diferent "subtypes" you could add to any basic race, i.e. aquatic, or frost, or desert. But different races adapt differently to climactic changes. Frost Giants work differently than Frost Dwarves for instance. I think if it's already a distinguishing race, it should be left that way. | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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yack
Commander
3129 Posts
Ottawa, Canada
| | 01/02/2008 5:16 PM |
| | I agree with Wraithborne, goblins sure but giants and the types are classic just like dragons. | |
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Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
8472 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 01/02/2008 6:41 PM |
| | I like having the giants as more distinct from each other, the way we currently have them. Having said that, it would not be the end of the world for me if they were done differently. I'm not sure what WotC stands to gain by not making them distict from each other - seems like the Monster Manuals would fill up much faster. Anyhow, we shall see if the change is for the better or not. | |
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minatoman38
Underboss
1341 Posts
Minaniuonuma-shi, Japan
| | 01/06/2008 3:26 PM |
| Well it seems they are going in another direction with the giants. Rather than make them one entry with cultural differences they are going to be pretty radically different with each type tied more closely to their respective elemental backgrounds. This should make a lot of people happy. Since the responses on this thread seem to indicate that each giant type should be distinct and unique. Frankly I'm alright with it. It isn't what I wanted but it still sounds creative and interesting enough. | |
Robert Rosehart
Champion of the pixie
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