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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10645 Posts
    
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
 | | 01/23/2008 4:04 AM |  Alert | Posted By doubtofbuddha on 01/22/2008 1:43 PM
Give me an example of something that is being changed for the sake of change.
To me, fluff changes are by their very nature, change for change sake. No one would be complaining if they didn't touch that stuff.
The term "change for change sake" is a potentially volatile topic because anyone can present examples of why they think it isn't true.
A few examples
Inclusion of Dragonborn is change for change sake. Lots of people seem to want the Tiefling, but Dragonborn? Where did that come from?
Eladrin = elves. Change for the sake of change.
The whole devils and demons makeover.
I've spent lots of time recently on the WotC boards reading the various 4E forums and it's amazing how many people screaming for change would still be playing D&D if those changes were not being made. I've also had people tell me that despite all those things that are now suddenly so horrible about 3E, they would still play despite all those horrible things. Everyone seems to want to see vancian magic go away. Yet, if it wasn't those same folks would still be playing D&D. Why? Because it's D&D.
Now, I'm not trying to use that as an argument against change, however, it's quite enlightening to hear folks say stuff like that. When you make the argument that the system is fatally flawed and needs to be changed but at the same time you keep playing it, I think you lose a significant amount of credibility. If the system is so flawed and so bad and in such need of change then why don't you stop playing it and try to find something more to your liking?
WotC has embarked on a design philosophy that varies significantly from past editions of the game. They believe it to be the best way to proceed. That's why 4E is a whole new game and not just a fix to 3.5. However, if they were making a game that was a fix to 3.5, call it 3.75, you would still have all those people playing the game. WotC would still be successful.
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The details of my life are quite inconsequential... very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner and RPG designer from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute and RPGA certified DM named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark and THAC0. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons, D&D every night. In the spring we'd make meat helmets for LARP. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag, forced to walk the walk of a thousand four siders, and beaten with reeds- pretty standard really. At the age of twelve I received my first scribe, which was very handy for D&D. At the age of fourteen a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles for LARP. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum... it's breathtaking- I highly suggest you try it.
Spreading the love of the Digitus Impudicus
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Ctulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
5329 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 01/24/2008 4:14 PM | Alert | I don't know, some of the change is good, wanted even. I wanted more races out there. It seems strange to me that such low power races dominate the world. As for Dragonborn, they even explain, people want to play dragons, or, if that's not possible, dragonmen. I figure there has to be tons of mixture of races anway. I like a lot of the racial changes. Cosmology and pantheistic? Not so much.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
| Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 01/25/2008 1:37 PM | Alert | | For a long, long time I didn't actually play D&D. I kept with fantasy role-playing (with other d20 systems) because it gave me an additional use for my miniatures. It was things like the Book of Nine Swords that brought me back, and 4e which is likely to cause me to stay with it. | |
I am not gone. | |
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Elenial Noial
Skirmisher
13 Posts
Dufresne, MB, Canada
| | 01/30/2008 11:10 PM | Alert | | I am against it. It sucks the bigtime. As I recall, there are feats you can take (from Complete Mage, don't have it on me right now) which allow you to cast certain offensive spells repeatedly as long as you have a spell in memory of that energy subtype. This pretty much allows magic-users to continue to be effective even though a large part of their spells have been used up. I think it's only available at a higher level, but it still does allows them to be useful after blowing their magical wad. | |
When the levee breaks, mama you got to move.... | |
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magefire
Skirmisher
8 Posts
New Hampshire, USA
| | 01/31/2008 11:53 PM | Alert | | What I guess I will never understand is how people can sit and complain about not having anything to do in a fight, whether a wizard, cleric, etc. If you are out of spells, it's clearly because you chose poorly. In that case, do something called Role-playing. Use a "useless" spell in a different way; pick up a chair and swing it, however ineffectually; whatever. The fighter doesn't complain when you identify items, enchant friends, or pray, so you shouldn't worry when he's taking names and you're in the background. Your character should never be beholden to the stats on the sheet. Be a character. Having per encounter/recharge abilities is like playing a video game, and if that's what you want to do, great, Go do it. It doesn't make it "more fun" to have more options. Sometimes less options is much better for making a memorable scene! | | | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10645 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 02/01/2008 4:31 AM | Alert | Posted By magefire on 01/31/2008 11:53 PM
What I guess I will never understand is how people can sit and complain about not having anything to do in a fight, whether a wizard, cleric, etc. If you are out of spells, it's clearly because you chose poorly.
I wont go as far as to say they chose poorly but "blowing your wad" as it were on a couple encounters is poor planning, imo.
Sadly, some ( a LOT it seems) pro-4E folks blame the 3.5 rules for this. What it really is, is poor resource management on the part of the player and possibly poor encounter design (or too many encounters) on the part of the DM, thus leading to cries of the "5 minute workday" complaint and cries that Vancian magic MUST be removed from the game.
I get really irked when players blame vancian magic and 3.5 because they chose to burn all their wizard's spells on two or three encounters and then find themselves with nothing to do. | |
The details of my life are quite inconsequential... very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner and RPG designer from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute and RPGA certified DM named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark and THAC0. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons, D&D every night. In the spring we'd make meat helmets for LARP. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag, forced to walk the walk of a thousand four siders, and beaten with reeds- pretty standard really. At the age of twelve I received my first scribe, which was very handy for D&D. At the age of fourteen a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles for LARP. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum... it's breathtaking- I highly suggest you try it.
Spreading the love of the Digitus Impudicus
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Ctulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
5329 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 02/07/2008 2:46 PM | Alert | Yes, but part of the problem is some days, you have only one encounter, so if you hold back, and maybe someone dies. then the next day, you have 11 encounters, and you don't know.
Now, I have no complaint over this in 3.5. It's part of the game, and makes it more of a challenge. But I do know people who have shied away from casters for this exact reason.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Elenial Noial
Skirmisher
13 Posts
Dufresne, MB, Canada
| | 02/09/2008 1:21 PM | Alert | Posted By Teflon Jeff on 02/07/2008 2:46 PM
Yes, but part of the problem is some days, you have only one encounter, so if you hold back, and maybe someone dies. then the next day, you have 11 encounters, and you don't know.
I think that's part of the fun of role-playing. You have to decide when to use spells to their best effect. I'm playing a 3.5 Warmage and I'm just now starting to learn not to jump in with spells blazing right off the hop. I don't have any big area spells yet, so that's a factor. Anyway, I enjoy that part of the game and I guess looking ahead to 4E, it will definitely be more of a video game feel. | |
When the levee breaks, mama you got to move.... | |
| Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
5147 Posts
| | 02/09/2008 5:11 PM | Alert | | I think in 3.5, once you expend spells, you then get desparate and start using magic items. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Ghast in Against the Giants, Darkenbeast in Demon Web. | |
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Elenial Noial
Skirmisher
13 Posts
Dufresne, MB, Canada
| | 02/23/2008 6:32 AM | Alert | | Exactly. Or use the magic items before you expend all of your spells so that you still have something good in the bag for any unexpected surprises. It's just as fun sometimes to fool the DM as it is to get fooled by him/her. | |
When the levee breaks, mama you got to move.... | |
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