| Author | Messages | |
AnarionZelle
Underboss
1071 Posts
    
USA
 | | 01/03/2008 9:39 PM |
| More words from Ed Greenwood concerning the changes to Forgotten Realms on the Candlekeep Forum:
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9905
Hello, all. I continue to receive e-mails, phone calls, snail mail letters, and in-person queries, beefs, and pleas for reassurance from longtime Realms fans - - and continue to be humbled by the depth of your feeling for the Realms. Thank you, everyone.
Though I am frantically busy trying to get things done before flying off to Australia (during which trip I will almost certainly fall e-silent, BTW) I will try to respond to scribes who have posted in this thread, as I come to your posts in the e-mails THO forwards me.
Red Walker, you’re welcome, thanks for the love, and you are very, very right to say: “Fear of change is natural, and greater fear of Big changes is too!”
The reactions of Realms fans were expected for this very reason. Of COURSE everyone will be upset, or at least anxious, in some way, whether eager for change or hating its possible/probable consequences. Wooly Rupert and others are correct to say we haven’t seen enough yet to really judge the so-called “new” Realms, and I agree.
None of which doesn’t make opinions on it, based on the little we have seen, perfectly valid. Zandilar isn’t the only one to decide that the changes she’s heard about thus far seem “so... well... dumb, to put it bluntly.”
Please, please, all of you: respect each other’s opinions. Disagree with them as heatedly as you want, but please bend over backwards not to disrespect each other for holding them. As it happens, the way the “peekaboo” revelations have thus far appeared (I’m guessing so as to foment maximum “buzz” and therefore unpaid publicity), I agree with Zandilar. Those don’t sound like MY gods. :}
However, Chosen of Moradin quite rightly points out that “a timeline is not an explanation of what happens. It's only a summary. And a summary cannot explain clearly anything. The summary of the Fall of Myth Drannor don't explain the Fall of Myth Drannor. So, to see exactly what happened, we will have to wait until the next FRCS.”
Correct. As I’ve always said, mortals in the Realms can never know the “truth” about divine deeds and intentions, only what’s reported to them. By deities, priests, soothsayers, “possessed” madwits, and in dream-visions - - and ALL of those sources can be mistaken or misinterpreted, or can lie and distort or slant to further their own agendas. Yes, even the gods themselves. So what appears in THE GRAND HISTORY OF THE REALMS is what “the loudest reports say” happened, not what every being in the Realms personally saw and therefore “knows” (and agrees) happened.
It should be obvious to everyone by now that there are major changes in magic and the deities underway, and that the Spellplague is part of that. We now know that it begins in the Year of Blue Fire, in a dramatic way, and that part of Bob’s newest novel takes place a hundred years in the future (at a time when almost all human characters alive in the Realms of “today,” if they haven’t found some magical means of prolonging their lifespans - - in a “magic unstable and unreliable” situation - - will have perished of old age).
Which brings us to eiglos, who posts: “My only current played character in the Realms is a Priestess of Lurue. Her future must be uncertain, unless Lurue returns to her original role in the Realms.”
Passing over the obvious points that everyone’s future is always uncertain, and that the particular priestess will almost certainly have died of old age by the time of THE ORC KING anyway, we know that gods can and have been subsumed by other gods, and that “dead” or fallen gods are still worshipped fervently, just as before, because other deities adopt their followers, still grant spells, and so on - - so mortals may or may not know the true fate of the deity they worship. This MIGHT be one future for this specific priestess. Lurue (or any other deity, for that matter) could of course survive “unchanged,” or change in divine power but keep the same looks, portfolios, aims, and credos. Deities tend to shift subtly all the time in these things, however. And IF we are talking a century of time, that’s a lot of roleplaying (in terms of real-world duration). So for now, eiglos, roleplaying “life” for your priestess can be very much “business as usual.”
I personally would welcome the separation of, say, The Living Realms and the “history” RPGA play therein develops, from my own home campaign. If characters played in an RPGA adventure slay a wizard and blow up his tower, and I’m using both wizard and tower extensively in my home campaign, the potential conflict vanishes; the destruction won’t occur until the future (if mage and/or structure “go down” in my campaign, there’s plenty of in-Realms time for the one to be brought back to life somehow and the other rebuilt, to “explain away” the conflict).
A gamer can play in their own current campaign just as before, peek at eventual 4e Realms releases in hobby shops, at conventions, and via online discussion, and either decide never to go to 4e, or (if the new material at some point seems really exciting) “jump” the characters from one Realmsdate to the other by some magical means (even if it’s “caught in a portal for a century,” and I set just such weirdness up with some comments in SWORDS OF DRAGONFIRE that also “start to” explain the 2e to 3e “map changes” in the Realms without being too explicit, for those who didn’t make the change). Or, if a DM and player group collectively decide to move to the “new” Realms, they can even try to arrange cached treasure and PC breeding so as to “set up” descendants of their favourite characters as adventurers in the future Realms.
So, eiglos, your priestess can have a long and rewarding life and career, regardless.
However, this leads to another important point Zandilar raised: “If I run my campaign prior to the Year of Blue Fire, then I don't need the 4e products. Since I don't need them, I don't buy them. Since I don't buy them, WotC doesn't get my money. WotC doesn't get my money, and it is starting to look like a lot of the "old guard" are going down this path... So WotC starts to loose money, and eventually the line will get cut.”
This is indeed the Big Risk in all of this, the “roll of the dice” that I wish someone had never decided to make (because I personally value the ongoing development of a shared and unbroken imaginary Grand History of a fictional fantasy setting as something magnificent in itself, an achievement we should all continue to contribute to).
Yet it’s happening regardless of my personal wants, and I choose to be onboard trying to paddle and steer, rather than left behind swimming in the water, calling out that perhaps we should have set a different course.
Zandilar is perfectly correct to post: “I've never ever had problems with a business wanting to make a profit. That is, after all, the purpose of a business. But what they're doing here is taking a HUGE risk with a known quantity. They're risking the entire Realms product line with this move, and they seem to have gone to great lengths to rub us old guard up the wrong way with the changes they're making. (Just my perception, I'm sure they haven't deliberately set out to slight us.)”
I don’t think anyone at Wizards set out to deliberately upset or slight anyone. I do think it has been decided to make these changes swiftly, and that very “brutal rapidity” is increasing some of the upset along with the “buzz.”
However, there’s no reason at all to move your own campaign if you don’t want to. IF there’s a hundred-year jump, that’s a LOT of time to roleplay through; most FR campaigns I hear about don’t cover more than ten to twelve years in the Realms unless they incorporate “down time” jumps of their own, before they “run down” and the folks involved start anew.
Yes, the Spellplague is going to shift the flavour of the Realms (if wizards are dying or their magic is going wild or failing, and priests are all upset, too, it follows that the “tone” of daily life and therefore of roleplaying will change a bit), but the Realms is a big place, and there’s no reason yet to suspect that “all civilization will fall.” Waterdeep, Silverymoon, Cormyr - - I don’t think a century will sweep any of them away. CHANGE them, yes, but they’re all changing constantly, anyway; we just usually live with the changes as they’re happening rather than seeing a “big jump-cut.” Nor is there any reason, based on what we’ve seen thus far, to believe that the Spellplague is a single big event, over in a short time; the very name implies something of longer duration, with almost certainly (if real-world “plagues” are anything to go by) varying results from place to place and person to person (this city or region largely unaffected, that wizard untouched, this one over here driven mad; that allows DMs plenty of “elbow room” to preserve the “heart locations” of a beloved campaign, and favourite PCs and NPCs, too; it’s “the rest of the Realms” where the BIG changes occur . . . something that a lot of DMs have already been doing for two decades, as they steer their own campaigns around events in the published Realms).
None of which means my arguments should be seen as quelling, denying, or belittling the personal anger and upset longtime Realms fans are feeling over this. Believe me, I know how you feel. :}
Neriandal Freit, your queries don’t come off as offensive, at all (and I’m glad you loved that little scene in EL’S DAUGHTER; one of my favourite moments, out of everything I’ve written). I hear you and I sympathize, deeply. (And yes, I’ll check out “Redeemers of Dawn,” and let you know; somebody please give THO a heads up when the new Compendium is released, okay?)
My answer begins: Although I know the Realms is intended as “a place to play,” and therefore should be something of a haven from the unpleasantnesses of real life, so we can hold on to elements in it we love and hold most precious, even in the Realms everything changes. I hate changing anything in the published Realms before I finish the (admittedly endless) task of detailing every corner of it (we still aren’t really off the first continent, are we?), but the alternative is static boredom . . . dust settling on statues in silence.
Everything changes; eventually, everyone (even deities, as they are conceived of in the Realms, with power tied to worshippers) dies. So with that said, my "answer direct" to you becomes another question: In real life, and in the Realms, do you NOT fall in love with someone, or befriend them, or work with them on something that interests you both and that you can both be proud of, because someday both of you will die?
I don’t think so. Despite yourself, even if you know we’re all rushing to oblivion, you do it anyway. In the end, that’s what “living” is all about.
We know we’re all doomed (as the song goes: “We’re here for a good time/Not a long time”), but we go ahead and love, laugh, climb mountains, read books, and fall in love with the Realms anyway. At least I did. :}
If it helps you decide, I intend to go on exploring the Realms, bringing us all more detail. Some of it in the “now” Realms, and some of it in the “new” Realms.
I strongly suspect the published Realms will shortly become “new Realms only” in terms of the time-setting of products - - and that many fans may step back from that new Realms. That’s an individual choice I certainly don’t want to try to (further than by setting forth my views here) influence for everyone. It’s going to have to be your call.
I hope you’ll join with Xysma and others in “clinging to the merest sliver of hope that Ed, Eric, and the rest can salvage what at first glance is going to be a nightmare for those of us who love the Realms so dearly,” and therefore at least give the new Realms a look.
I’m going to go right on exploring the Realms, and if that means finding some way to paint in bits of the “Lost Years” in the time-jump, I’ll try to find some way to do that. We MIGHT end up with a Realms of the novels that’s far “ahead in time” of where you or other gamers might be roleplaying, and therefore not conflicting much with your unfolding play. Lovely smell over here, steak sizzling over there, so to speak.
I KNOW it hurts when you’ve come to love and cherish a fictional place and characters, that you can enjoy in your imagination, and someone goes and stomps on what you hold precious. Yet what lies your imagination can be only be hurt if you let it be.
In the Realms, this has all happened before; the Mystra you loved that scene about is Mystra Number 2 (Number 3 if you count Mystryl). The Realms you love grew out of previous planet-shaking debacles. and you may come to like the post-Spellplague Realms.
Or not. I understand and respect both your love for the Realms, and that you feel the way you do right now.
Kuje expressed his dismay early on in this, and many other scribes have cried out between him and you; I understand and sympathize with all of your misgivings and raw emotions. I went through the same thing at a secret summit meeting at GenCon some years ago; believe me, heavy-hitter novelists and game designers who love the Realms have argued about this “change” over and over heatedly.
There’s always a strong streak in gamers and game designers of what I said onstage at the Killer Breakfast this year, when Tracy asked me what my character was going to do, and I replied: “Being a game designer, I go for the bright shiny object.” We always feel the lure of what’s exciting and new.
Yet I deliberately left the ever-busier city where I grew up (“home”) to go and live in the country, to try to cling to some of the good things of the past that were slipping away in the big city. So I’m going through this struggle, too. Lose Syluné? Hell, lose ALL the human NPCs I spent forty years bringing to life? This had BETTER be good!
Wizards of the Coast obviously believes it will be. I’m going to do my best to help them make it so. I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . . . | |
Completed Trades: Cha0tic g0od x2,IHawk x6,demagogue x5,jcnorris00,Sammael x3,Diomedes x3,Pan,Phoenix,samstephenson500,sage_raistlin,jai,simage,Lab Monkey x4,bugsy,Vulturedoodle,T-Bone,niolo,GreyOne,Kunimatyu,Mullins,ShivanWurm,berus316,Thenameless x3,Tysac,ksuvampire,Mama Cass,Metz,Zim x2,brucemc,Krush x2,Venport,RedneckDM,nycfarmkid,Corim Danex,Chad the DragonLordofAiur x2,Puggins,Izeya82 x2,Oryan77 x3,Zenako,Wayne,Vocenoctum1,Drakkengi,Username x2,lyus_sleyden,Cyberia,Star x2,xuthal x3,Qucalion of Celene x8,sam500 x2,Blob39,Keoki x2,hazel monday x3,emontedodger,Dargoth,Wraithborne,Anothermullen,Vrecknidj x4,Ghendar,Gunthar,shoesan,beurice,ckissee,kyrin,Khellrendros,GuJiaXian,Wolfgang,True_Blue,md3,stephengroy(MMT08),Teflon Jeff,GuJiaXian(MMT08),aries71,Count Dooku,Kat_Dawg33,oldben,TheChuckI I I I I I I I I I 0 I I I I I I I I I I Pending: hung4treason | |
|
vanrulzz
Underboss
2294 Posts
¯\(°_o)/¯
| | 01/06/2008 12:32 PM |
| | so long... needs better formatiing.. | |
TENTACLES!!!!!
STRANGE TEMPLES!!!!
FREE PIE!!!!
IM CRZY KEWL!!!! | |
|
yack
Commander
3129 Posts
Ottawa, Canada
| | 01/08/2008 5:13 AM |
| | I'm very worried on what they have planned. :( | |
Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
ATG: Fog Giant
DW: Duergar Priest
RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
|
thekidxii
Sergeant
362 Posts
No Yack. I said.. we need a DM not BM!
| | 01/08/2008 6:38 AM |
| | ummm.. is that Ed's way of saying "look I hate the changes as much as you, but they're still paying me so I have to spin this (but good)!" or am I reading too much into this? | |
Champion of the dire hippo.
Audi Vide Tace
"Nothing matters but the weekend, From a Tuesday point of view" -Diamond & Zero | |
| Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
5473 Posts
| |
Shottglazz
Sergeant
879 Posts
Quinte West, Ontario, Canada
| | 01/08/2008 8:25 AM |
| | I took it as more "I don't agree with this, parts of it made me very angry - but parts of it interest me"...overall displeasure, but not total... | |
Shottglazz
"Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand;
I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me."
Completed trades ( 42 ): Pikel, Darrell, JeffDHarvey, BiggPappa001, Ghendar, Valinrook X2, Wolfgang x2, Wraithborne x5, Mr Ruffles, Anothermullen, CKissee x3, Browns_Scoundrel, Kyrin, GuJiaXian x2, Tyngfumv, Basic_Aim, Mickey Mouse, Berus316, Crisisman, Zoons, Rockfrd, Sterling40 x2, Brucemc, 2007 Magical Mystery Trade, Redskullz x2, Stephengroy, Lyus_Sleyden, Foolforthought, 2008 Magical Mystery Trade, Kilsek, Generic Fighter
Pending trades ( 0 ):
WotC trades ( 1 ): Red_Deceiver
Bad trades ( 2 ): LeftEyeofGruumsh, Yotebeth | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10838 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 01/08/2008 10:32 AM |
| Posted By Shottglazz on 01/08/2008 8:25 AM
I took it as more "I don't agree with this, parts of it made me very angry - but parts of it interest me"...overall displeasure, but not total...
Yeah, that's the vibe I get as well.
Ed knew what he was getting into when he signed over the rights to FR to TSR. He knew that the days of total creative control were over.
For me, as a long time Realms fan, I actually think the setting is in need of a reset. Maybe just not as radical as what they seem to be planning. I'm actually curious enough in what they are doing to buy the 4E FR campaign book but more and more I'm thinking about just going back to the original 1E grey box set and some of the early supplements. | |
Leaning towards giving 4e the Digitus Impudicus
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Ctulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|
Shottglazz
Sergeant
879 Posts
Quinte West, Ontario, Canada
| | 01/08/2008 10:42 AM |
| | The grey box was well done - so were (IMHO) most of the 2e materials... | |
Shottglazz
"Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand;
I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me."
Completed trades ( 42 ): Pikel, Darrell, JeffDHarvey, BiggPappa001, Ghendar, Valinrook X2, Wolfgang x2, Wraithborne x5, Mr Ruffles, Anothermullen, CKissee x3, Browns_Scoundrel, Kyrin, GuJiaXian x2, Tyngfumv, Basic_Aim, Mickey Mouse, Berus316, Crisisman, Zoons, Rockfrd, Sterling40 x2, Brucemc, 2007 Magical Mystery Trade, Redskullz x2, Stephengroy, Lyus_Sleyden, Foolforthought, 2008 Magical Mystery Trade, Kilsek, Generic Fighter
Pending trades ( 0 ):
WotC trades ( 1 ): Red_Deceiver
Bad trades ( 2 ): LeftEyeofGruumsh, Yotebeth | |
|
yack
Commander
3129 Posts
Ottawa, Canada
| | 01/08/2008 6:30 PM |
| | I agree the old grey box you couldn't go wrong. Lots of great information in 2ed. | |
Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
ATG: Fog Giant
DW: Duergar Priest
RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
6234 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 01/09/2008 12:48 PM |
| You know, I talked with Ed about 18 months ago at GenCon '06 about something very much like this, specifically, how it feels to share control of "your baby"
He said that he has to let go, or no one else really gets to play with it, and he doesn't really share it. This waswhen some realms-changin events were happening 9death of Khelben, Myth Drannor siege, the Fey-ri, Shade, etc.
So, he probably would have liked things to turn out another way, but then, wouldn't we all?
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
| Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
8476 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 01/18/2008 2:29 AM |
|
More words from Ed Greenwood concerning the changes to Forgotten Realms on the Candlekeep Forum:
Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . . .
I rather like this image. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
|
|