Sean-Khan
Commander
2656 Posts
    
 | |
Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
5362 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 03/11/2008 12:05 PM |  Alert | Not yet, but I shoudl be getting the stuff I need here in the next few weeks to start demoing it.
I'll make a more informed decision then.
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Fun Guy from Yuggoth
Cthulhufnord
Warlord
10174 Posts
Umass Amherst Baby!
| | 03/11/2008 8:06 PM | Alert | I'm going to poke the RPG club at college to pick up the core stuff.
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Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
Robert E. Howard | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
5362 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 03/12/2008 12:06 PM | Alert | Posted By Cthulhufnord on 03/11/2008 8:06 PM
I'm going to poke the RPG club at college to pick up the core stuff.
Smooth! | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
Nebulous
Skirmisher
2 Posts
| | 03/13/2008 4:28 AM | Alert | I ran a 2.5 hour session and posted it to Enworld. You can read about it here.
Bottom line: i really liked it. Curious to see how the full game pans out and if the fun gets better, or too confusing (which is a possibility)
http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=4098543&postcount=85
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Sean-Khan
Commander
2656 Posts
| |
Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
5362 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 03/13/2008 8:28 AM | Alert | I'll be doing Demos of it in Idaho, if anyone is nearby and wants to stop in.
I believe WotC will be posting all the delegate 4E demos to a site. Help get the word out. Ask your local delegate or store about it.
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
Fun Guy from Yuggoth
Cthulhufnord
Warlord
10174 Posts
Umass Amherst Baby!
| | 03/13/2008 10:21 PM | Alert | Mass tax dollars (and my tuition) at work!
Posted By Teflon Jeff on 03/12/2008 12:06 PM Posted By Cthulhufnord on 03/11/2008 8:06 PM
I'm going to poke the RPG club at college to pick up the core stuff.
Smooth! | |
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
Robert E. Howard | |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10652 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 03/14/2008 7:27 AM | Alert | Posted By Teflon Jeff on 03/13/2008 8:28 AM
I'll be doing Demos of it in Idaho, if anyone is nearby and wants to stop in.Â
Someone needs to get off his arse and invent the matter to energy transporter so I can take advantage of such invites. | |
The details of my life are quite inconsequential... very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner and RPG designer from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute and RPGA certified DM named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark and THAC0. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons, D&D every night. In the spring we'd make meat helmets for LARP. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag, forced to walk the walk of a thousand four siders, and beaten with reeds- pretty standard really. At the age of twelve I received my first scribe, which was very handy for D&D. At the age of fourteen a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles for LARP. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum... it's breathtaking- I highly suggest you try it.
Spreading the love of the Digitus Impudicus
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Ctulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|
Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
5362 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 03/14/2008 10:02 AM | Alert | Posted By Ghendar on 03/14/2008 7:27 AM Posted By Teflon Jeff on 03/13/2008 8:28 AM
I'll be doing Demos of it in Idaho, if anyone is nearby and wants to stop in.Â
Someone needs to get off his arse and invent the matter to energy transporter so I can take advantage of such invites.
Look, I can't learn 4E and invent teleporters at the same time. And I think we both know which is more important.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
5150 Posts
| |
Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
5362 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 03/14/2008 12:05 PM | Alert | Posted By greyhaze on 03/14/2008 11:54 AM
Teleporters.
Priorities, man, PRIORITIES!!
Gaming always takes precedence...
http://preview.tinyurl.com/2s488t
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
Pedro
Commander
3448 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 03/14/2008 1:38 PM | Alert | Posted By Teflon Jeff on 03/14/2008 12:05 PM Posted By greyhaze on 03/14/2008 11:54 AM
Teleporters. Priorities, man, PRIORITIES!! Gaming always takes precedence... http://preview.tinyurl.com/2s488t
Personal teleporters! | |
C[][illillillilli][lloll]{=========================
1.0 Champion of Sa'Di-Noel, the famous Phalanx Captain General who gives bonuses to his armies in the Phalanx Formation
2.0 Champion of ...
Next Icon Called Shot: Baldur's Gate pack - Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc (and BOO!), Imoen, Xan, Sarevok...
Dungeon of Dread Called Shot: Cranium Rat
Against the Giants Called Shot: Phoenix
Demonweb Called Shot: Yagnoloth | |
|
Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
5150 Posts
| | 03/14/2008 7:52 PM | Alert | Posted By Teflon Jeff on 03/14/2008 12:05 PM Posted By greyhaze on 03/14/2008 11:54 AM
Teleporters. Priorities, man, PRIORITIES!! | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Ghast in Against the Giants, Darkenbeast in Demon Web. | |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10652 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 03/17/2008 5:16 AM | Alert | On Saturday, my DM printed out some stuff for 4E and we played it. I think it was delve stuff from D&DXP.
The only conclusion I came away from it was that I need to play more in order to form a proper opinion. One thing I can say is that I found the character sheets a bit busy. Lots of stuff on there for 1st level PCs. I'm wondering how many pages the sheet for a 10th level PC will be? | |
The details of my life are quite inconsequential... very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner and RPG designer from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute and RPGA certified DM named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark and THAC0. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons, D&D every night. In the spring we'd make meat helmets for LARP. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag, forced to walk the walk of a thousand four siders, and beaten with reeds- pretty standard really. At the age of twelve I received my first scribe, which was very handy for D&D. At the age of fourteen a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles for LARP. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum... it's breathtaking- I highly suggest you try it.
Spreading the love of the Digitus Impudicus
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Ctulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|
Sean-Khan
Commander
2656 Posts
| |
Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
5362 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 03/17/2008 2:09 PM | Alert | Posted By greyhaze on 03/14/2008 7:52 PM Posted By Teflon Jeff on 03/14/2008 12:05 PM Posted By greyhaze on 03/14/2008 11:54 AM
Teleporters. Priorities, man, PRIORITIES!!
There, i'm done. I've invented them, but the power necessary to do so is astronomical. Literally, we'll need the output of a small star to power it.
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
5150 Posts
| | 03/17/2008 2:33 PM | Alert | | So, u rushed it so you could gaming and did it half assed! Ok, now do it again so that it runs on lolli pops and hope. ;) | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Ghast in Against the Giants, Darkenbeast in Demon Web. | |
|
Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
5362 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 03/17/2008 4:32 PM | Alert | Posted By greyhaze on 03/17/2008 2:33 PM
So, u rushed it so you could gaming and did it half assed! Ok, now do it again so that it runs on lolli pops and hope. ;)
LOL, nice.
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
Vrecknidj
Warlord
9466 Posts
United States
| | 03/19/2008 9:46 AM | Alert | Posted By Ghendar on 03/17/2008 5:16 AM
One thing I can say is that I found the character sheets a bit busy. Lots of stuff on there for 1st level PCs. I'm wondering how many pages the sheet for a 10th level PC will be? I'm thinking the curve is different than it used to be. That is, that characters are VERY heavily front-loaded. The first-level characters that we've seen so far are loaded to the hilt with hit points and ways to recover hit points, for example.
I actually rather like that my 1st level chump will be able to carry out a whole day's worth of exploration and encounters instead of having to run home and nurse his wounds after 24 seconds of combat.
My guess is that this heavy front-loading will be just that, and that as characters progress in level, the "stuff per level" ratio
(to keep track of, that is, not in terms of treasure), will even out.
Just a guess.
Dave
| |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10652 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 03/19/2008 10:24 AM | Alert | Posted By Vrecknidj on 03/19/2008 9:46 AM
I actually rather like that my 1st level chump will be able to carry out a whole day's worth of exploration and encounters instead of having to run home and nurse his wounds after 24 seconds of combat.
not picking specifically on you Dave....
I've heard stuff like this stated over and over by the pro-4E crowd and I just don't get every time I hear it. This so-called 5 minute work day is so alien to me and my group that I can't understand how it became such a huge issue, huge enough in fact for WotC to take notice and decide they had to fix it.
Are there that many D&D players who shoot their entire load in one or two encounters and then have to rest? Is it a powergaming/munchkin mentality that has led us to this point?
I honestly and sincerely don't get it.
| |
The details of my life are quite inconsequential... very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner and RPG designer from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute and RPGA certified DM named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark and THAC0. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons, D&D every night. In the spring we'd make meat helmets for LARP. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag, forced to walk the walk of a thousand four siders, and beaten with reeds- pretty standard really. At the age of twelve I received my first scribe, which was very handy for D&D. At the age of fourteen a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles for LARP. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum... it's breathtaking- I highly suggest you try it.
Spreading the love of the Digitus Impudicus
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Ctulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|
wicked cool
Underboss
1959 Posts
| | 03/19/2008 12:10 PM | Alert | "This so-called 5 minute work day is so alien to me and my group that I can't understand how it became such a huge issue, huge enough in fact for WotC to take notice and decide they had to fix it" . this has been a problem since 2nd edition. sometimes its just bad luck of the dice. you have a encounter,you run out of healing or magic from that encounter or from total encounters throughout the session. You then have to "nap" or leave the dungeon to get more healing back at town. you then had to calculate whether you got true sleep or not . This slows down the fun aspect of the "game" . now it doesnt always have to be resting for offensice/healing spells. what if your spellcaster hant studied identify or knock for day. you only have limited spells that you can prepare. Opps sorry have to stop the dungeon so i can knock this door. It boring and stops the game for no good reason
Arent you going to substitute out spells and feats at higher levels so character sheet size should stay the same | |
The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
Vindicated-CHAMPION of the INTELLECT DEVOURER
i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
|
Bert the Troll
Commander
3595 Posts
Adelaide
| | 03/19/2008 5:07 PM | Alert | Posted By Pedro on 03/14/2008 1:38 PM Posted By Teflon Jeff on 03/14/2008 12:05 PM Posted By greyhaze on 03/14/2008 11:54 AM
Teleporters. Priorities, man, PRIORITIES!! Gaming always takes precedence... http://preview.tinyurl.com/2s488t
Personal teleporters!
linky keeps telling me not hot linking - Could you please repost
 |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: Sometimes the road less traveled is less traveled for a reason. ~ Seinfeld
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Olaf the Stout
Sergeant
393 Posts
Adelaide, Australia
| | 03/19/2008 10:56 PM | Alert | Posted By Ghendar on 03/19/2008 10:24 AM Posted By Vrecknidj on 03/19/2008 9:46 AM
I actually rather like that my 1st level chump will be able to carry out a whole day's worth of exploration and encounters instead of having to run home and nurse his wounds after 24 seconds of combat.
not picking specifically on you Dave....I've heard stuff like this stated over and over by the pro-4E crowd and I just don't get every time I hear it. This so-called 5 minute work day is so alien to me and my group that I can't understand how it became such a huge issue, huge enough in fact for WotC to take notice and decide they had to fix it. Are there that many D&D players who shoot their entire load in one or two encounters and then have to rest? Is it a powergaming/munchkin mentality that has led us to this point? I honestly and sincerely don't get it.
Actually, in this case, I think that Dave is referring to the fact that in 3E, 1st level PC's will generally have 14 hit points max (a Barbarian might have a couple more, a Wizard would be lucky to have 6).
This means that once they have been hit once or twice they are in danger or dying. Once the Cleric blows his healing spells it's just to risky for first level characters to carry on since the next combat could easily kill them.
4E 1st level characters on the other hand seem like they will start off with a few more hit points so they can take a few more hits in combat before they need to worry about getting KO'd or killed. Add in healing surges and/or second wind abilities and it gives all classes a bit more staying power to keep going.
At least I think that's what Dave is referring to. I may be wrong (and have been many times before! :-) ).
Olaf the Stout | |
My Trade Thread
12 Trades Completed - Bert the Troll, Keoki, elf_ranger, kalle, Dropbear, twilightraven, SkYlyn3, Monolthicus (x2), qillan_dvra, xuthal, MMT 2007
My Reference Thread | |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10652 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 03/20/2008 9:38 AM | Alert | Posted By ghendar
"This so-called 5 minute work day is so alien to me and my group that I can't understand how it became such a huge issue, huge enough in fact for WotC to take notice and decide they had to fix it" .
Posted By wicked cool on 03/19/2008 12:10 PM
this has been a problem since 2nd edition. sometimes its just bad luck of the dice. you have a encounter,you run out of healing or magic from that encounter or from total encounters throughout the session. You then have to "nap" or leave the dungeon to get more healing back at town. you then had to calculate whether you got true sleep or not . This slows down the fun aspect of the "game" . now it doesnt always have to be resting for offensice/healing spells. what if your spellcaster hant studied identify or knock for day. you only have limited spells that you can prepare. Opps sorry have to stop the dungeon so i can knock this door. It boring and stops the game for no good reason
Arent you going to substitute out spells and feats at higher levels so character sheet size should stay the same
What I find amusing is when people quote this kind of stuff and at the same time D&D has remained the most popular, most played RPG in existance. Seems to me that these problems couldn't have been that bad otherwise they would have driven so many poeple from the game that the company (TSR or WotC) would have tanked. When WotC introduced 3.0 it didn't have all these sweeping changes that 4E looks to be having and it was still a wildly popular and successful game.
I'm not trying to use that as an argument against change but when I hear folks complain that this MUST be changed or that MUST be changed and at the same time they keep playing the system they are so passionately railing against, I blink my eyes and say wha? Why are you playing a game that you seem to think is so flawed?
 | |
The details of my life are quite inconsequential... very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner and RPG designer from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute and RPGA certified DM named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark and THAC0. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons, D&D every night. In the spring we'd make meat helmets for LARP. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag, forced to walk the walk of a thousand four siders, and beaten with reeds- pretty standard really. At the age of twelve I received my first scribe, which was very handy for D&D. At the age of fourteen a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles for LARP. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum... it's breathtaking- I highly suggest you try it.
Spreading the love of the Digitus Impudicus
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Ctulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|
wicked cool
Underboss
1959 Posts
| | 03/20/2008 10:19 AM | Alert | it didnt drive me from the game and if they cancelled 4th edition tomorow id still play 3.5. However for the most part i like the changes in the mechanics ive seen. The only parts i havent liked is the changes on how some monsters will look such as trogs. to me i compare it to a favorite video game upgrade. Loved playing mario on my old nintendo but now i like playing on a new system. this argument applies to record players,video cassettes and anything else that worked wel then but with change is clearly better. Rewinding a casette etc was a pain but what was the point of complaining. I still bought these things but deep down wished some how it could be improved.
Im playing 3.5 up to the moment i can get my hands on 4.0. And didnt TSR tank? | |
The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
Vindicated-CHAMPION of the INTELLECT DEVOURER
i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10652 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 03/20/2008 10:56 AM | Alert | Posted By wicked cool on 03/20/2008 10:19 AM
And didnt TSR tank?
yeah, but for reasons that go far beyond just what we're talking about here. | |
The details of my life are quite inconsequential... very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner and RPG designer from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute and RPGA certified DM named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark and THAC0. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons, D&D every night. In the spring we'd make meat helmets for LARP. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag, forced to walk the walk of a thousand four siders, and beaten with reeds- pretty standard really. At the age of twelve I received my first scribe, which was very handy for D&D. At the age of fourteen a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles for LARP. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum... it's breathtaking- I highly suggest you try it.
Spreading the love of the Digitus Impudicus
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Ctulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|
wicked cool
Underboss
1959 Posts
| | 03/20/2008 11:26 AM | Alert | | top reason was money. top reason for wotc is to make money. second reason is to make a better product. there are some out there that say we shouldnt have gone to 2.0,3.0,3.5 etc. They dont want to use miniatures or any other gam aids. Good for them i say. Ill never say they are wrong but its not for me. someday the new version will leave me behind to | |
The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
Vindicated-CHAMPION of the INTELLECT DEVOURER
i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
|
Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
5362 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 03/20/2008 11:47 AM | Alert | Posted By Bert the Troll on 03/19/2008 5:07 PM Posted By Pedro on 03/14/2008 1:38 PM Posted By Teflon Jeff on 03/14/2008 12:05 PM Posted By greyhaze on 03/14/2008 11:54 AM
Teleporters. Priorities, man, PRIORITIES!! Gaming always takes precedence... http://preview.tinyurl.com/2s488tPersonal teleporters! linky keeps telling me not hot linking - Could you please repost
http://tinyurl.com/2jjmju
let's try this.
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
5362 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 03/20/2008 11:55 AM | Alert | Posted By Ghendar on 03/20/2008 9:38 AM Posted By ghendar
"This so-called 5 minute work day is so alien to me and my group that I can't understand how it became such a huge issue, huge enough in fact for WotC to take notice and decide they had to fix it" . Posted By wicked cool on 03/19/2008 12:10 PM
this has been a problem since 2nd edition. sometimes its just bad luck of the dice. you have a encounter,you run out of healing or magic from that encounter or from total encounters throughout the session. You then have to "nap" or leave the dungeon to get more healing back at town. you then had to calculate whether you got true sleep or not . This slows down the fun aspect of the "game" . now it doesnt always have to be resting for offensice/healing spells. what if your spellcaster hant studied identify or knock for day. you only have limited spells that you can prepare. Opps sorry have to stop the dungeon so i can knock this door. It boring and stops the game for no good reason
Arent you going to substitute out spells and feats at higher levels so character sheet size should stay the same What I find amusing is when people quote this kind of stuff and at the same time D&D has remained the most popular, most played RPG in existance. Seems to me that these problems couldn't have been that bad otherwise they would have driven so many poeple from the game that the company (TSR or WotC) would have tanked. When WotC introduced 3.0 it didn't have all these sweeping changes that 4E looks to be having and it was still a wildly popular and successful game. I'm not trying to use that as an argument against change but when I hear folks complain that this MUST be changed or that MUST be changed and at the same time they keep playing the system they are so passionately railing against, I blink my eyes and say wha? Why are you playing a game that you seem to think is so flawed? Â
As for the argument that the change was necessary, well, no, it wasn't driving gamers off in droves. But that doesn't mean it couldn't be made better. Look at all the upgrades that happen in every industry. people willd eal with what they ahve, but that doesn't mean they don't want something better. Internet speeds, for instance. Some areas have average speeds, not premium speeds. But that's not driving people to quit the internet altogether. But if higher speeds come along, they'll generally partake.
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10652 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 03/20/2008 12:18 PM | Alert | Posted By Teflon Jeff on 03/20/2008 11:55 AM
Hold on, 3.0 had massively sweeping changes. 4E is closer to 3E than 3E was to 2E.
Yes, 3e was a BIG change over 2e. However, the changes that WotC are putting forth with 4E are fundamentally altering what D&D has always been. Sacred cows that were left intact in 3e are now going under the knife and either being substantially altered or changed completely. WotC is setting a new tone for the game. This isn't your papa's D&D. It's a D&D for a new generation.
Problem is, I liked the D&D for the old generation and didn't think such enormous changes were necessary in order to make a fun, yet profitable game. They could have taken the 3e engine and fixed it. They didn't do that. They built the 4e engine instead. Yeah, it's still D20 but 4e is not backwards compatible with 3e. To me, that's the definition of a whole new game.
And if anyone truly thinks they couldn't fix 3e, they're fooling themselves. No, this was a conscious decision to take the game in a new direction.
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As for the argument that the change was necessary, well, no, it wasn't driving gamers off in droves. But that doesn't mean it couldn't be made better. Look at all the upgrades that happen in every industry. people willd eal with what they ahve, but that doesn't mean they don't want something better. Internet speeds, for instance. Some areas have average speeds, not premium speeds. But that's not driving people to quit the internet altogether. But if higher speeds come along, they'll generally partake.
I agree that games can improve and probably should improve. I just don't like what WotC is presenting as an improvement. This is not what I need or require out of a RPG. It's not change per se that I don't like. It's the particular 4e changes that I don't like. | |
The details of my life are quite inconsequential... very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner and RPG designer from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute and RPGA certified DM named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark and THAC0. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons, D&D every night. In the spring we'd make meat helmets for LARP. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag, forced to walk the walk of a thousand four siders, and beaten with reeds- pretty standard really. At the age of twelve I received my first scribe, which was very handy for D&D. At the age of fourteen a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles for LARP. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum... it's breathtaking- I highly suggest you try it.
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I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
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Teflon Jeff
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| | 03/20/2008 12:42 PM | Alert | They killed a lot of the sacred cows in the 2E-3E convergence too.
They're getting more in the 4E change, and maybe that's not for the best. The Magic Missle one I really didn't like, but I understand why. sacred Cows that don't make sense (in the neqw version) have to be burgerized.
I will agree, they're changing the feel. But that's happened a lot before too.
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In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 03/20/2008 6:02 PM | Alert | Posted By Teflon Jeff on 03/20/2008 12:42 PM
They killed a lot of the sacred cows in the 2E-3E convergence too. Such as? THAC0 doesn't count and was not a sacred cow. I will agree, they're changing the feel. But that's happened a lot before too.
imo, not to the extent they are doing it with 4e.
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The details of my life are quite inconsequential... very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner and RPG designer from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute and RPGA certified DM named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark and THAC0. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons, D&D every night. In the spring we'd make meat helmets for LARP. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag, forced to walk the walk of a thousand four siders, and beaten with reeds- pretty standard really. At the age of twelve I received my first scribe, which was very handy for D&D. At the age of fourteen a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles for LARP. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum... it's breathtaking- I highly suggest you try it.
Spreading the love of the Digitus Impudicus
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Ctulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
5362 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 03/21/2008 11:39 AM | Alert | The feel has changed a lot more than before, But the feel has changed with each revision.
As for ThAC0, it most definitely. I remember reading an article by Gygax that he out ThAC0 in specifically to m,ake players think, and be reasonably intelligent. He was a bit elitist about who he wanted playing. So, considering he went out of his way to make it that way, I'd say it's certainly sacred to some. That doesn't mean it's not an improvement to drop it.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Fun Guy from Yuggoth
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| | 03/23/2008 1:11 AM | Alert | Thac0..... we hates it yess we do! 
3.0 and 3.5, no annoying math... Yes precious....
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Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
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nyjastul69
Commander
2710 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 03/24/2008 1:54 AM | Alert | THAC0 did nothing more than give players the equasions that where used to build the 'to hit' tables. It was never a bar. Simply a tool. Nothing more.
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You know, I keep thinking that after the new design team gets done with D&D 4e, D&D won't stand for Dungeons and Dragons anymore, because well, that's just not fun. It's old and stuffy. - Originally Posted by BabWryter on Kenzerco.com | |
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Bert the Troll
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| | 03/24/2008 3:56 PM | Alert | | I really dont see much diference between thac0 than using the vs defense etc of 4th. | |
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