wicked cool
Underboss
1959 Posts
    
 | | 03/12/2008 6:39 AM |  Alert | | i hear a lot of talk on these boards on how 4th edition looks and feels like WOW and that 3.5 was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Im one of the people who is willing to give 4th ed a chance and believes that . had a lot of flaws. I want to know from why you feel 3.5 is superior to 4th ed. Forget the amount of books 3.5 you own or that your first great moment as a DM or pc was with 3.5or that they are changing it for the sake of change. I just want to know why 3.5 is better | |
The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
5150 Posts
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NotAnotherDrizztClone
Warrior
265 Posts
| | 03/12/2008 8:08 AM | Alert | Posted By wicked cool on 03/12/2008 6:39 AM
i hear a lot of talk on these boards on how 4th edition looks and feels like WOW and that 3.5 was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Im one of the people who is willing to give 4th ed a chance and believes that . had a lot of flaws. I want to know from why you feel 3.5 is superior to 4th ed. Forget the amount of books 3.5 you own or that your first great moment as a DM or pc was with 3.5or that they are changing it for the sake of change. I just want to know why 3.5 is better
I never said that 3.5 was the best thing since sliced bread. I believe it fixed some things that were wrong with 3.0 but I also think it changed some things in 3.0 that weren't broken imo. I am fully willing to give 4.0 a try and am looking forward to taking a look at the core books when they come out this summer and I will buy them. I do think however, that 4.0 is incorporating profound changes that take the game away from the traditional foundations of D&D (such as Vancian spellcasting, implementing self healing, doing away with "spells", etc) I think it remains to be seen if these changes will make the game better/worse. I made a WoW comparison because it seems many of these changes seem to be inspired by it and other similar MMORPGs and CRPGs. | |
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wicked cool
Underboss
1959 Posts
| | 03/12/2008 8:23 AM | Alert | | you are not the only one whos thrown the WOW feeling out there. the vancian spellcasting,self healing,etc are good examples. im looking for reasons on why 3.5 is a better game than 4.0 from those who are clearly opposed to 4.0. There are many of us who are on the fence and there are some who are still living in 1st edition. | |
The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
Vindicated-CHAMPION of the INTELLECT DEVOURER
i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10652 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 03/12/2008 9:02 AM | Alert | Reasons why one system is superior to another is opinion, nothing more.
I, for one, have never stated that 3.5 is superior to 4E. What I will say is that 3.5 feels like D&D. 4E (based on what I've seen so far) does not. Thus, I can say that I believe 3.5 to be a better system for me.
When I get the PH, I'll be able to definitvely conclude which system is superior for me. Actually, I'll probably just end up saying that 1E or BECMI D&D is superior to both of them.  | |
The details of my life are quite inconsequential... very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner and RPG designer from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute and RPGA certified DM named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark and THAC0. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons, D&D every night. In the spring we'd make meat helmets for LARP. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag, forced to walk the walk of a thousand four siders, and beaten with reeds- pretty standard really. At the age of twelve I received my first scribe, which was very handy for D&D. At the age of fourteen a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles for LARP. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum... it's breathtaking- I highly suggest you try it.
Spreading the love of the Digitus Impudicus
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Ctulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
5362 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 03/12/2008 12:05 PM | Alert | I thinka lot of the 3.5 preferences come from the feel. It's very comfortable, and it's what they want out an RPG.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
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yack
Commander
3082 Posts
Ottawa, Canada
| | 03/12/2008 4:06 PM | Alert | Teflon Jeff is right
3.5 has a classic D&D feel and from what I have read and seen art wise for 4th Ed. it's just doesn't feel the same D&D that I grew up with since the early 80s. Yes AD&D to 3.5 was way different but the game felt the same as they didn't mess with the core just changed to D20 and got rid of THACO (which was great for me as I suck at math). The whole look in 4th ED looks like they created it to just be different from the other editions to be just that.. different. Nothing against 4.0, it's just that so far it doesn't seem D&D to me but just another fantasy game. And that to me is very important. (As I don't play other fantasy games just D&D) I will scroll through the PHB but so far it just doesn't seem like the RPG game that I grew up on but more of a fast pace video game on a grid. | |
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warchanter
Warrior
333 Posts
Italy
| | 03/13/2008 11:57 AM | Alert | Posted By wicked cool on 03/12/2008 6:39 AM
I just want to know why 3.5 is better?
Because it's not 4E. | |
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Bail Ohmar
Sneak
56 Posts
Black Country, UK
| | 03/27/2008 7:07 AM | Alert | I don't think either system, or any RPG system is BETTER than any other. It's what a group feel comfortable playing.
Personally I enjoy the D20 system when played with characters of levels up to about 14. In 3/3.5e the various classes give me what I need to encourage the not so hardcore players into role-playing. The one thing I tried so hard with when I started running D&D was to get away from pure Hack 'n slash games, but 4e IMHO is guiding you towards that style of quick play.
There is also the BIGGIE... the cost. A lot of gamers have invested lots of money in 3/3.5e. I know for sure I have enough material to game for 20+ years, so I'm afraid I won't be buying into 4e. | |
"No disintegrations? Yeah right!" - Bail Ohmar, Warriors of Gar
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Avatar of the Irrelevant
Diomedes
Commander
3169 Posts
| | 03/27/2008 7:24 AM | Alert | As someone who's not yet had a chance to play 4th, but is eagerly awaiting a chance to try it, I've gotta say "feeling" aside the mechanic notions getting tossed around sound a lot more appealing to me.
To me, the D&D feel can be supplemented in game. I personally loved the feel of the old 1st edition rule that speaking the name of a devil could summon it. I brought it back into my games and it really brought the whole, "He who must not be named" feeling home. My players loved it, I loved it, when you hear a cultist chanting the name of a devil it sends chills up the player's spines as they know what has the potential to happen and that this cultist is insane enough to do it.
::Deep Breath:: However, when my wizard spends more time manning a heavy crossbow than spell slinging, I start to have an issue. Maybe I've just had one too many games that left me grumpy. You know, those games where the party almost dies on the second encounter of the day so you burn through your spells just to save their lives, you beg the party to let you rest but there's a time deadline, no rest. Finally when it is time to sleep, you have your rest interrupted all night long and can't even learn new spells. And by manning a crossbow, I mean that my +2 bab is facing down a penalty for an enemy that's in combat and receiving partial cover for a party member. Maybe I should be taking archery feats instead of metamagic feats? Maybe I should wade into combat with 12 hp and 12ac?
Given that combat often is upwards of an hour to resolve, that's a long time for me to stand around twiddling my thumbs.
When I'm in an RP heavy game, I bloody love my spell casters. But when I find out I'm with a DM that's combat heavy, I almost always flat out retire my spell casters. Yes, that delayed fireball is nice, but my array of RP useful spells is about to go to waste and after I get my one trick out there I'm done. Again, this isn't a problem in every game, or with every DM, and maybe I've just gotten a run of horrible horrible games. But as it stands now, some of the new mechanics sound like a darn good idea to me. I'd rather not spend an entire session hoping to get some RP in because lord knows I'm not casting another spell.
My $.02 uniformed opinion on the subject :P | |
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Avatar of the Irrelevant
Diomedes
Commander
3169 Posts
| | 03/27/2008 7:31 AM | Alert | I'd also like to add that any process wotc adds to play the game online are welcome to me. This is more or less how I constantly feel when I game in my area (STRONG LANGUAGE ADVISORY) http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/03/24
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
5362 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 03/27/2008 9:31 AM | Alert | As I've sadi before, I'm also in favor of integrating digital initiatives. If I can pick and choose based on personality instead of Geography, that would help me stay in touch with my distant friends as well.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
7965 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 03/29/2008 12:53 AM | Alert | Might be hard to say which is better with proper conviction right now. The better time to ask would probably be a year after 4.0 is released. One should probably play the new game for a while and get a good grasp of the differences. Then it would be easier to say which is truly better.
From a broad perspective, one thing I like about the new system is the supposed usability of all the character classes up to 30th level. This has a two-fold advantage. First, I don't like how full spellcasters are stronger than other classes in 3.5. Second, I don't like the "sweet spot" of levels 3-12 or so for 3.5. Low levels are just for getting it over with, and high levels are tough to DM properly. On the other hand, the thing that I do like about 3.5 is the idea of prestige classes. I heard that they were doing away with these in 4.0? It's fun to work one's character in a specific direction, and become really good at something.
Again, I'd have to play 4.0 for a while before I feel that I could give a fair opinion either way. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
10652 Posts
In the constellation of Cygnus, or Central Connecticut
| | 03/31/2008 8:14 AM | Alert | My DM has gotten ahold of all the 4e info from ENworld that someone collected into a preliminary PH and we are trying it out.
Im not sure I see (so far) a whole lot of this simplification I've been hearing about. First level PCs have several abilities to keep track of. I'll be interested to see how it plays. | |
The details of my life are quite inconsequential... very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner and RPG designer from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute and RPGA certified DM named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark and THAC0. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons, D&D every night. In the spring we'd make meat helmets for LARP. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag, forced to walk the walk of a thousand four siders, and beaten with reeds- pretty standard really. At the age of twelve I received my first scribe, which was very handy for D&D. At the age of fourteen a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my testicles for LARP. There really is nothing like a shorn scrotum... it's breathtaking- I highly suggest you try it.
Spreading the love of the Digitus Impudicus
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Ctulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
5362 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 03/31/2008 10:16 AM | Alert | Well, let us know how it goes, ghendar.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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vanrulzz
Underboss
2159 Posts
¯\(°_o)/¯
| | 04/02/2008 1:23 PM | Alert | | yep, go ghendar | |
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