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wicked cool
Underboss
1959 Posts
    
 | | 05/05/2008 2:23 PM |  Alert | | i'm looking at the back of some of the dungeon of dread cards and trying to figure out the levels of creatures vs part level. Now the deathjump spider is a level 4 skirmisher. Does that mean its meant for a level 4 party to fight it? any guess's on how monster level=party of 4 level | |
The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
Vindicated-CHAMPION of the INTELLECT DEVOURER
i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
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MarioCleanstuff
Sneak
170 Posts
San Diego, CA
| | 05/05/2008 7:09 PM | Alert | | X monsters of Y level is an appropriate challenge for X player characters of Y level. | |
Completed trades: Brenigin, desiderata | |
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Puggins
Sergeant
593 Posts
| | 05/06/2008 12:00 PM | Alert | A couple of caveats:
(1) An Elite Monster counts as two monsters of its level.
(2) A Solo Monster counts as five monsters of its level.
(3) When in doubt, check the experience point total for the monster And compare it to the experience point total for a non-elite, non-solo monster of that level. An elite 2nd level monster is worth 250xp, I believe, which means it is 2.5x as tough as a normal level 1 monster, which is worth 100xp. Two elite second level monsters (500xp) should give the same amount of challenge as five normal first level monsters (500xp).
(4) Designers warn about level difference. A higher level monster worth the exact same experience points as a lower level solo monster is going to produce a much more random encounter- the high level mosnter will have fewer hit points but hit much, much harder, making combats against it short and potentially deadly. | |
References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7231 | |
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wicked cool
Underboss
1959 Posts
| | 05/06/2008 1:26 PM | Alert | ok so the trog bonecrusher is a level 6 soldier. that means 5 of them are appropriate for a level 6 party? since the card dont have experience points on them it makes it a little harder
why on #4 are they worth the same xp? Does the low level monster xp assume the party is fighting 5+? | |
The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
Vindicated-CHAMPION of the INTELLECT DEVOURER
i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
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Puggins
Sergeant
593 Posts
| | 05/07/2008 8:21 AM | Alert | ok so the trog bonecrusher is a level 6 soldier. that means 5 of them are appropriate for a level 6 party? since the card dont have experience points on them it makes it a little harder
Yep, you hit it right on the button. Of course, just what "appropriate" means is a totally different issue- a party of four 3rd level characters in 3.5e usually laugh at a CR3 creature, so we'll have to see what the "standard" encounter does to a party in 4e.
why on #4 are they worth the same xp? Does the low level monster xp assume the party is fighting 5+?
Exactly. Elite and Solo monsters were created in order to promote "epic" boss encounters and such. In 3.5e, you generally can't have a long, tense battle with a big bad guy, because the big bad guy's capabilities would be so powerful that the party must kill him fast, before he kills them. So you get four or five round dragon fights, three round balrog fights, so on and so forth. Let them live much longer than that and you're looking at a complete party wipe.
4e changes that by adding elites and solos. Solo monsters have large hit point totals and the ability to take lots of actions, but each action is not powerful enough to wipe out a character. A soldier mob of the same experience total, on the other hand, will be doing a ton more damage per attack and will have better defenses but fewer hit points, making the battle a lot more random (and lethal) in nature.
Check out the Chuul, a level 10 soldier worth 500xp:
HP:109, AC27, 2 claw attacks at +17, 1d6+6 or 3d6+6 against an immobilized creature. If both claws hit a single creature, Chuul makes another attack at +14 vs. Fort, target is immobilized if attack hits. save +0
Now check out the Young Black Dragon, a level 4 solo lurker worth 875xp:
Hp:280, AC24, 2 attacks at +8, 1d4+3 damage or one attack at +10, 1d6+3 plus ongoing 5 acid damage, save ends. Breath: +7 vs reflex, 1d12+3 damage plus ongoing effect, save ends, recharge 5+. save +5
I simplified both, of course. But you can see the glaring difference- the Dragon is meant to be a final boss for a level 2 party (most level 1 parties would wipe against it). The battle will be long, and winning is no sure thing, but the party will have a realistic chance. The Chuul, on the other hand, is worth less xp but is far, far more lethal to a 2nd level party. He had fewer HP, higher defenses and no save bonus, meaning he's likely to do one of two things: get taken out by a lucky sleep spell or slaughter some characters.
I really like the addition, to be honest- the ability to challenge a party without putting them in danger of being completely wiped out with some bad rolling is a great option. | |
References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7231 | |
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