Mjollnir
Underboss
1433 Posts
    
Canary Islands - Spain
 | | 06/03/2008 9:36 AM |
| Maybe it's too soon to ask but I don't understand how multi-classing work in 4th ed. From what I have read here and there you can pick a single class and take it to up to level 10. From there on you can pick a paragon path which is similar to Prestige Classes in 3rd ed., but what if I'm thinking of a paragon path which should have prerrequisites from two different classes as 3rd edition had (ie the elven bladesinger which most of the times was a fighter-wizard combo)? I mean, it seems there is no tables for each class, then, how do you do it? What if you want to make a multiclass character? No info on the matter anywhere I have found so far.
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Champion of the Molydeus
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MarioCleanstuff
Warrior
323 Posts
San Diego, CA
| | 06/03/2008 10:33 AM |
| You take one class and you stick with it. Paragon Paths provide extra abilities to your class, as do Epic Destinies.
Multiclassing is managed through the use of feats. I don't remember all of the specifics, but some feats grant you access to powers from other classes. | |
Completed trades: Brenigin, desiderata, HockeyFan, MikeyChraal, Raland, GuJiaXian | |
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Mjollnir
Underboss
1433 Posts
Canary Islands - Spain
| | 06/03/2008 10:36 AM |
| | I think I don't like the concept. | |
Champion of the Molydeus
Vindicated Blood War Called Shot: Cornugon (Horned Devil)
Icons Called Shot: Tarrasque
Vindicated Dungeon of Dread Called Shot: Mind Flayer
Against the Giants Called Shot: Uncommon Fire Giant
Demonweb Called Shot: Myrlochar
Feywild Called Shot: Molydeus
"Sé que me acusan de soberbia, y tal vez de misantropía, y tal vez de locura. Tales acusaciones (que yo castigaré a su debido tiempo) son irrisorias." - Jorge Luis Borges
I sell my collection at:
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/54/view/topic/postid/801203/Default.aspx | |
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Fun Guy from Yuggoth
Cthulhufnord
Warlord
10786 Posts
Umass Amherst Baby!
| | 06/03/2008 11:53 AM |
| That's more or less been my reaction to it too. I'm unsure why standard multiclassing was not used for 4th ed.
Posted By Mjollnir on 06/03/2008 10:36 AM
I think I don't like the concept.
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Pathetic Earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void - without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe - anything at all - you would have hidden from it in terror. | |
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MarioCleanstuff
Warrior
323 Posts
San Diego, CA
| | 06/03/2008 12:05 PM |
| | I know I'm liking it. Makes multiclassing quick and easy. Granted, characters won't become quite as versatile (and possibly not quite as broken) as in 3.5, but it captures the feel well. Take a feat to gain access to another class's ability. Take another feat or two to swap out one of your powers for one of theirs... You're still an effective character at all times, and your "borrowed" abilities can be swapped multiple times to allow them to scale. | |
Completed trades: Brenigin, desiderata, HockeyFan, MikeyChraal, Raland, GuJiaXian | |
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Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 06/03/2008 12:30 PM |
| Posted By MarioCleanstuff on 06/03/2008 12:05 PM
I know I'm liking it. Makes multiclassing quick and easy. Granted, characters won't become quite as versatile (and possibly not quite as broken) as in 3.5, but it captures the feel well. Take a feat to gain access to another class's ability. Take another feat or two to swap out one of your powers for one of theirs... You're still an effective character at all times, and your "borrowed" abilities can be swapped multiple times to allow them to scale.
Right....
So a Wiz 1/Sor 1/Clr 1/Fig 1/Rog 1 is better than a 3rd level Fighter? Sure, the multiclassed character has a boatload of 0 and 1st level spells, has 1d6 sneak attack, 5 HD, and a +1 BAB. While the third level fighter has only three levels?
Multiclassing is still better than this concept of feats to gain other class abilities. If a Fighter wanted to learn wizardly ways, make the fighter take the class, not swap class abilities whenever they choose. In my opinion, swapping abilities is broken, not multiclassing.
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Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai.  I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11197 Posts
The Dark and Forbidding Lands of The Necromancer.
| | 06/04/2008 1:24 PM |
| | I've read the 4e multiclass rules and I too am not liking them very much. | |
Ghendar - Bringin' the snark!
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
5804 Posts
| | 06/04/2008 7:59 PM |
| | I find this really odd since in Saga (which I figured would be the bridge between 3.5 and 4e) multiclassing is just simply taking a level in another class. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
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Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Demon Web, Darkenbeast in Feywild. | |
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Fun Guy from Yuggoth
Cthulhufnord
Warlord
10786 Posts
Umass Amherst Baby!
| | 06/05/2008 7:07 AM |
| An edition ago for both D&D and SWM I did a quick write-up on a Fantasy game using the Star Wars rules. Rather than picking up 4th ed, I may simply dig out those old notes and adapt them to the new SW game.
Posted By greyhaze on 06/04/2008 7:59 PM
I find this really odd since in Saga (which I figured would be the bridge between 3.5 and 4e) multiclassing is just simply taking a level in another class.
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Pathetic Earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void - without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe - anything at all - you would have hidden from it in terror. | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7146 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 06/05/2008 9:30 AM |
| Interesting. I'm not sure I like it much. I like level dipping. However, this may help keep power levels down.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
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Anorian
Sergeant
480 Posts
| | 06/05/2008 3:11 PM |
| | Well, I just wonder if there will be any prestige classes (sorry if it has been said before, but I'm not really up for all the news about 4th edition...) My best characters in 3.5 were all prestige classes (like dervish and oder of the bow initiates...) | |
Anorian
Completed trades : 12 / Pending trades : 1 / Bad trades : 0
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MarioCleanstuff
Warrior
323 Posts
San Diego, CA
| | 06/05/2008 3:15 PM |
| | There are no prestige classes at present, but between levels 11 and 20 you take a "Paragon Path" of your choice for your class, which provides some extra abilities, and between levels 21 and 30 you take an "Epic Destiny" of your choice to get even more extra abilities. | |
Completed trades: Brenigin, desiderata, HockeyFan, MikeyChraal, Raland, GuJiaXian | |
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Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 06/05/2008 3:37 PM |
| Anything a prestige class for a warrior can do, a straight Fighter can do better. Ask my 33rd level fighter that could do 90-130 damage a hit before adding in a critical of around 300-350 a hit if they managed to fail the Devastating Critical save. Even at lower levels, an 18th level fighter, he was doing right around 60-100 a hit and 150-250 for a critical.
As for archery, Deepwood Sniper was the only PrC that could outshine a Fighter archer.
And for TWF, a straight up fighter, once again outshines the competition from PrCs.
Posted By Anorian on 06/05/2008 3:11 PM
Well, I just wonder if there will be any prestige classes (sorry if it has been said before, but I'm not really up for all the news about 4th edition...) My best characters in 3.5 were all prestige classes (like dervish and oder of the bow initiates...)
But a fighter/cleric, fighter/wizard, or fighter/rogue yields interesting results.
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Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai. I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
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XAos
Underboss
2382 Posts
London
| | 06/09/2008 6:07 AM |
| In 4e you can at most achieve a somewhat restricted dual-class character. And that would require expending 4-feats (have you ever known a PC with 4 feats to spare) And giving up the option of a "Paragon class"
In 3.5e I invariably consider multi-class characters more fun to play (simply because they are "unique".) 4e basically limits players to a single character class. With the exception that if you find a strong combo using a couple of abilities (from one other class) that might be worth expending the feats.
I'd rate the whole muli-classing issue as a tick against 4e. | |
Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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GuJiaXian
Sergeant
652 Posts
Roswell, GA
| | 06/09/2008 6:45 AM |
| Posted By XAos on 06/09/2008 6:07 AM
In 4e you can at most achieve a somewhat restricted dual-class character. And that would require expending 4-feats (have you ever known a PC with 4 feats to spare) And giving up the option of a "Paragon class"
In 3.5e I invariably consider multi-class characters more fun to play (simply because they are "unique".) 4e basically limits players to a single character class. With the exception that if you find a strong combo using a couple of abilities (from one other class) that might be worth expending the feats.
I'd rate the whole muli-classing issue as a tick against 4e.
4e PCs gain a minimum of 15 feats over their "lifetime": one every other level. That's not even counting the free feat that humans get at 1st level. Also, remember that feats in 4e are generally weaker than they were in 3.5, simply because feats serve a slightly different purpose. Feats are now intended to compliment abilities that you already have, not grant you new abilities. There might be (and almost certainly are) exceptions, but they're just that...exceptions.
Having said that, why would you need to spend four feats to create a "dual-class" character? Four feats would mean dipping into four other classes, not one. Also, no one else has mentioned it, but remember that when you hit 11th level and qualify for a paragon path, you can opt out and instead "multiclass" into another class, gaining a greater number of powers/abilities than the multiclassing feat alone grants.
Perhaps the new system still isn't for everyone (and that's fine), but it's not as narrow or limiting as people here are making it out to be.
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"Clearly a case of too many hunchbacks and not enough mad scientists..." | |
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MarioCleanstuff
Warrior
323 Posts
San Diego, CA
| | 06/09/2008 8:57 AM |
| | GJX... You need four feats if you want to become "fully multiclassed." One makes you count as the class and get a class ability. A second gives you an encounter power from the class. A third gives you a daily power from it. The fourth gives you a utility power from the class. | |
Completed trades: Brenigin, desiderata, HockeyFan, MikeyChraal, Raland, GuJiaXian | |
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XAos
Underboss
2382 Posts
London
| | 06/10/2008 5:40 AM |
| Posted By GuJiaXian on 06/09/2008 6:45 AM
Posted By XAos on 06/09/2008 6:07 AM
Having said that, why would you need to spend four feats to create a "dual-class" character? Four feats would mean dipping into four other classes, not one. Also, no one else has mentioned it, but remember that when you hit 11th level and qualify for a paragon path, you can opt out and instead "multiclass" into another class, gaining a greater number of powers/abilities than the multiclassing feat alone grants.
two details you missed;
A) "dipping into four other classes" Is specifically forbidden, your only allowed to spend feats on one additional class. The only (partial) exception for that is the half-elf.
B) You mention the option to multiclass instead of taking a paragon class. That's requires spending the 4 feats, as it's pre-requisit. So ideally you want to spend those 4 feats before 11th level. By which time, your PC has 5 or 6 feats in total. See why I think it's too expensive...
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Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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wicked cool
Underboss
2083 Posts
| | 06/18/2008 6:01 AM |
| | its to bad you couldnt get an at will power. It doenst seem worth it | |
The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
Vindicated-CHAMPION of the INTELLECT DEVOURER
i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
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Sean-Khan
Commander
2714 Posts
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qstor
Sneak
136 Posts
| | 06/22/2008 7:12 PM |
| where does it say in the 4e PHB does it say you CAN'T take a level in another class. I've skimmed through it and didnt see that rule. Mike | |
We walk in the dark places no others will enter.
We stand on the bridge, and no one may pass.
We live for the one, we die for the one. | |
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GuJiaXian
Sergeant
652 Posts
Roswell, GA
| | 06/23/2008 6:30 AM |
| Posted By qstor on 06/22/2008 7:12 PM where does it say in the 4e PHB does it say you CAN'T take a level in another class. I've skimmed through it and didnt see that rule. Mike
More specifically, the PHB doesn't say you can. Once a fighter, always a fighter in 4e...with the exception of "dipping" into one other class via multiclassing feats.
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"Clearly a case of too many hunchbacks and not enough mad scientists..." | |
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zenthrus
Commander
4806 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 06/23/2008 2:10 PM |
| Posted By qstor on 06/22/2008 7:12 PM where does it say in the 4e PHB does it say you CAN'T take a level in another class. I've skimmed through it and didnt see that rule. Mike
The PHB also doesn't state that your character can fly if you say "gefloygan." Omission should not imply permission.
It's a little more complex than in 3.x but the more I think about it, the more I like the new multiclass system. A vast amount of time was spent by players in 3.x attempting to slash-build uber-optimized characters. And trust me, those were generally the broken ones (I built a wiz/eldritch knight/abjurant champ build that had better AC/attacks/damage than the party fighter who was also heavily optimized. I was also a full-power blaster/crowd control/utility character. Granted, wizards in 3.x were seriously overpowered).
Much less wiggle room for 'breaking' builds.
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Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
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