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Rakhamon
Warrior
319 Posts
    
 | | 06/17/2008 5:05 PM |
| Alrighty, I noticed there's a thread on a similar tone, but I figure I would post everything in a concisive list.
While this list is pretty complete, I am certain that I have made mistakes, omissions or whatever. Feel free to supply corrections and comments.
Firstly, these creatures are gone from the Monster Manual 4.0. I have NOT bothered listed missing "subtypes" in the case where the base creature is still there except in special circumstances. Some creatures that are "missing" can be found in a list further down concerning radically changed creatures, but there's not many of them.
Creatures with a * after their name have had one or more miniatures made of them.
Creatures from Monster Manual 3.5 not in Monster Manual 4.0
Achaierai *
Allip
Angels - Planetar, Astral Deva, Solar *
Animated Objects (all)
Ankheg *
Aranea
Archons - Lantern, Hound, Trumpet *
Arrowhawk (all)
Assassin Vine
Athach
Barghest (all) *
Beholder, Gauth *
Belker
Blink Dog
Celestial (Template)
Centaur *
Chaos Beast *
Cloaker
Cockatrice
Couatl *
Darkmantle *
Delver
Demon - Babau *
Demon - Bebilith
Demon - Dretch *
Demon - Nalfeshnee
Demon - Quasit *
Demon - Retriever
Derro *
Devil - Barbed/Hamatula *
Devil - Hellcat *
Devil - Horned/Cornugon *
Devil - Lemure *
Digester *
Dinosaurs (All)
Dire Ape *
Dire Badger *
Dire Bat *
Dire Lion *
Dire Wolverine *
Dragon - All metallic dragons *
Dragon turtle
Dragonne *
Dwarf - Duergar *
Eagle, Giant *
Elementals (All, the new ones are very different critters) *
Ethereal Filcher *
Ethereal Marauder *
Fiendish (Template)
Formians (all) *
Frost Worm
Fungus - Violet
Fungus - Shrieker
Genie - Djinni *
Genie - Janni
Ghoul, Ghast *
Giant - Cloud *
Giant - Frost *
Giant - Stone *
Girallon *
Golem - Clay *
Golem - Iron *
Gray Render*
Guardinal - Avoral
Guardinal - Leonal
Hag - Green
Hag - Annis
Hag - Sea
Half-celestial (Template)
Half-Dragon (Template)
Half-fiend (Template)
Howler *
Inevitable - Kolyarut *
Inevitable - Zelekhut
Invisible Stalker
Kraken
Krenshar *
Lammasu/Golden Protector *
Lillend *
Locatah
Lycanthrope - Werebear *
Lycanthrope - Wereboar *
Lycanthrope - Weretiger *
Magmin *
Mephits (all) *
Merfolk
Mimic
Mohrg
Naga - Spirit
Naga - Water
Nightshade - Nightcrawler
Nightshade - Nightwing
Nymph
Ooze - Black Pudding
Ooze - Gray Ooze
Owl, Giant *
Pegasus *
Phantom Fungus
Phase Spider
Phasm
Planetouched, Aasimar *
Rast
Ravid
Remorhaz
Rust Monster
Sea Lion
Shadow (all) *
Shocker Lizard
Skum
Slaad - Death *
Sphinx - Gynosphinx
Sphinx - Criosphinx
Sphinx - Hieracosphinx
Spider-eater
Sprite - Grig
Sprite - Nixie
Sprite - Pixie
Swarm (all except rat swarm) *
Tendriculous
Thoqua
Tojanida
Triton
Vargouille *
Will-ó-wisp
Winter Wolf *
Xill *
Xorn *
Yeth Hound
Yrthak
Animals (Everything except Horses, Hyena and Wolf)
Vermin (Everything)
***
So, what can you conclude from this list? Well, some specific creature groups have taken pretty strong hits, possibly indicating they are being reserved for future splats. In particular, elemental creatures of all kinds (from elementals to tojanidas to arrowhawks to Ravids), aquatic creatures (we are left with pretty much just the aboleth here) and any creature found in our world (ie almost all animals and vermin).
Second, you can note that a few critters recently made into minis or even scheduled for Against the Giants and beyond are on this list, which means they're either flying through based on being iconic, or scheduled for upcoming products. Metallic dragons would be one example.
Stay tuned, next up is the list of NEW creatures in the 4.0 Monster Manual
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My trading references: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/680508/view/topic/Default.aspx
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stephengroy
Underboss
1418 Posts
Tempe AZ Beeyotch
| | 06/17/2008 5:33 PM |
| | Silly Rak, they gonna be 4.0 MM2, MM3 etc until all they kids of WotC gets sent to college!! | |
Waiting for Chainmail Equivalencies since 2005
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Rakhamon
Warrior
319 Posts
| | 06/17/2008 6:00 PM |
| We return to our rundown of changes to the Monster Manual. This time, we're tackling the creatures that were not in the 3.5 Monster Manual. Very few of these creatures are actually brand new. Most are imported from various older sources. Most had an official 3.5 adaptions.
Again, I'm NOT going to even touch listing up all the new "subtypes" of creatures. There are a LOT, from differently-named goblins to differently-powered skeletons. I have only listed new subtypes when I felt they were interesting enough to do so, and I'm totally capricious here, so again, feel free to correct or amend me.
Once again, creatures with a * have appeared in mini form at least once, or are confirmed for Against the Giants.
Creatures in the Monster Manual 4.0 that were not in Monster Manual 3.5
Abomination - Astral Stalker *
Abomination - Atropal
Abomination - Blood Fiend
Abomination - Phane
Angel - Angel of Battle
Angel - Angel of Protection
Angel - Angel of Valor *
Angel - Angel of Vengeance *
Archon - Fire Archon
Archon - Ice Archon *
Balhannoth *
Bat - Shadowhunter Bat *
Bat - Fire Bat
Battlebriars (all) *
Beetle - Tangler
Beetle - Rot Scarab Swarm *
Behemoth - Macetail *
Behemoth - Bloodspike
Beholder - Eye of Flame *
Berbalang
Boar, Thunderfury
Boneclaw *
Cambion *
Colossus - Godforged Colossus
Crocodile - Visejaw *
Crocodile - Feymire
Cyclops (all) *
Dark one - Dark Creeper *
Dark One - Dark Stalker
Demon - Bar-lgura *
Demon - Evistro/Carnage Demon *
Demon - Goristro
Demon - Immolith *
Demon - Mezzodemon *
Devil - Legion Devil (all)
Devil - Spinagon *
Devil - War devil/Malebranche
Dracolich (Both H and G sizes) *
Dragonborn (all) *
Dragonspawn - Redspawn Firebelcher *
Dragonspawn - Blackspawn Gloomweb
Dragonspawn - Bluespawn Godslayer *
Drake - Spiretop Drake
Drake - Guard Drake/Crested drake *
Drake - Spitting Drake
Drake - Rage Drake *
Eidolon *
Elemental - Firelasher
Elemental - Rockfire Dreadnaught
Elemental - Earthwind Ravager
Elemental - Thunderblast Cyclone *
Flameskull *
Fomorian *
Foulspawn (all)
Galeb Duhr
Gargoyle, Nabassu
Ghoul - Abyssal Ghoul
Giant - Death Giant *
Gibbering Beast - Gibbering Abomination
Gibbering Beast - Gibbering Orb
Grell *
Hag - Howling Hag *
Hag - Death Hag
Hag - Bog Hag
Helmed Horror *
Homunculus - Iron Defender *
Homunculus - Iron Cobra *
Human (All, no, I'm not kidding) *
Hyena - Snickerfang
Kruthik (all) *
Larva Mage/Worm that Walks
Lich - Lich vestige
Magma Beast - Magma Claw
Magma Beast - Magma Hurler *
Magma Beast - Magma Strider
Magma Beast - Magma Brute *
Marut - Marut Blademaster
Naga - Bone Naga *
Naga - Primordial Naga
Orcus
Doresain, the ghoul king *
Aspect of Orcus *
Cultists of Orcus (all)
Panther - Fey Panther
Panther - Spectral Panther *
Quickling
Roc - Phoenix
Roc - Thunderhawk
Rot Harbinger/ Angel of Rot
Scorpion - Stormclaw
Scorpion - Hellstinger
Shadar-kai (all) *
Shifter (all) *
Skull Lord
Slaad - Slaad Tadpole
Slaad - Black Slaad/Void Slaad
Snake - Deathrattle Viper
Snake - Crushgrip Constrictor
Snake - Flame Snake *
Snake - Shadow Snake
Sorrowsworn (all)
Specter - Voidsoul Specter
Spider - Deathjump Spider
Spider - Bloodweb Swarm
Spider - Blade Spider *
Spider - Demonweb Terror
Swordwing (all)
Vine Horror (all)
Warforged (all) *
Worg, Guulvorg *
Yuan-ti - Yuan-Ti Anathema *
Yuan-Ti - Snaketongue cultists (all) *
***
So, what's this list tell us? First of all, the naming convention they use for "new" creatures is -horrible-. I mean, lord almighty. I don't want to see another "voidsoul deathjump crushgrip Earthwind Rockfire" anything ever again. This kind of naming works in Magic the Gathering, where it's vital not to duplicate names, but it serves NO PURPOSE here besides looking Frankensteinian and silly. I mean come ON, couldn't we just have said "large spider" and be done with it?
Second, a lot of critters from the minis game have made it in, in specific a number of creatures from the Miniatures Handbook. No surprise here, as Shoe is one of the writers for the Monster Manual and will likely have wanted his skirmish babies in the game. Too bad they had little fluff to talk of from the start and even less now.
Speaking of that, critters really don't get much material here at all. There's nothing to indicate WHY different versions of the same creature are different. There's not even any description of what makes them different. Sometimes not even a picture. This is kind of weird and makes these "new" monsters feel even more like quickly assembled M:tG fillers.
However, a lot of the additions are cool, iconic monsters from various books that I am happy to see included.
Finally, I'm running a small and quickly assembled list over creatures that have been changed in some significant way between editions, as well as a brief list of specific D&D Miniatures figures that have made it into the new Monster Manual as variant monsters, for the diehard D&DM collectors out there.
Monsters significantly changed between edition 3.5 and 4.0
Aboleth (Huge -> Large)
Angels (Altered beyond recognition)
Archons (Also altered beyond recognition)
Basilisk (Medium -> Large)
Dark One - Dark Stalker (Medium -> Small)
Demon - Balor (Large -> Huge)
Demon - Bar-lgura (Medium -> Large)
Demon - Mezzodemon (Medium -> Large)
Devil - Erinyes/Succubus (Merger of the two different devil and demon types into one)
Devil - Spinagon (Small -> Medium)
Devil - War Devil/Malebranche (Huge -> Large)
Dragonborn (Moderate redesigned)
Eladrin (Heavily redesigned)
Galeb Duhr (Slight redesign, Large -> Medium)
Gargoyle, Nabassu (Large -> Medium, formerly a devil, not a gargoyle)
Giants/Titans (Merged into one category, new sizes)
Horse - Celestial Charger (No longer a unicorn)
Hydra (Moderately redesigned)
Lamia (Redesigned to unrecognizability)
Lycanthrope (No more werewolf lord or other large-sized lycanthropes)
Nightwalker (Huge -> Large)
Orcus (Huge -> Gargantuan)
Roc (Gargantuan -> Huge)
Roc - Phoenix (Large -> Huge)
Salamander (No more Small or Medium salamanders)
Stirge (Tiny -> Small)
Tiefling (Heavily redesigned)
Worg (Heavily redesigned)
Dungeons & Dragons Miniatures figures in the 4.0 Monster Manual
Cambion - Hellsword
Drow - Arachnomancer
Drow - Blademaster
Gnoll - Gnoll Claw Fighter
Goblin - Goblin Blackblade
Goblin - Goblin Underboss
Lizardfolk, Blackscale
Ogre - Ogre Skirmisher
Ogre - Ogre War hulk
Orc - Orc Eye of Gruumsh
Rakshasa - Rakshasa Warrior (Zekya Rakshasa)
Sahuagin - Sahuagin Baron
Shambling Mound - Stormrage Shambler
Skeleton - Blazing Skeleton
Skeleton - Boneshard Skeleton
Skeleton - Tomb Guardian
Troll - War Troll
Zombie - Chillborn
***
There we are, I hope this compilation is of use or interest to anyone but me.
Rak
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5104 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 06/17/2008 8:59 PM |
| One other point of interest:
No Colossal size category in 4.0.
Ancient Red Dragon (Colossal-->Gargantuan)
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Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
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Sean-Khan
Commander
2723 Posts
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Sean-Khan
Commander
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OhGodtheRats
Warrior
190 Posts
| | 06/18/2008 3:58 AM |
| So, are there more or less monsters in the new MM? I don't mean monster entries....but with an average of 3 or so stat blocks for variants of the same monster, I sort of thought it was "more monsters, but less entries." From counting monsters in the book, you get a total of 491 monster in there. So my question is if it wasn't a design change. We're seeing fewer monsters, but a heck of a lot more monsters at the same time. If that makes sense.
I agree with you though...they really don't explain much about the variants except for a few implicative mechanical things mentioned. Some of the new monsters sound really interesting...makes me wonder if we'll see a Monster Compendium that's all background story or something. Not that it's necessarily required...I kind of dig the open-ended nature they've set up 4th edition monstrosities as.
-jared | | | |
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Rakhamon
Warrior
319 Posts
| | 06/18/2008 4:38 AM |
| I did a quick rundown of this. Only counting statblocks, not cosmetic variants:
Monster Manual 3.5:
Total statblocks: 466 (Counting animals and vermins but NOT templates or dragons)
Variant creatures of the total: 163
Dragon stats: 120
Templates: 8
The "variant" percentage was very hard to count and should be considered indicative, not absolute. What constitutes a "variant"
creature, really? Surely not every creature to share a header is a
variant? In the end I counted creatures I felt were different enough to be unique as unique.
Dragons are another special case due to them not having statblocks at all in the traditional sense. If you want, you can count them as 10 statblocks with 12 modes of modification each. Or they could be 120 very condensed statblocks. I ended up just putting them in their own category.
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Shottglazz
Underboss
1139 Posts
Quinte West, Ontario, Canada
| | 06/18/2008 6:14 AM |
| No shadows?
IIRC, this would be a BBEG from an old Dungeon magazine: Doresain, the ghoul king * | |
Shottglazz
"Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand;
I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me."
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Rakhamon
Warrior
319 Posts
| | 06/18/2008 7:01 AM |
| Doresain was in the 1st edition Monster Manual, albeit not with his own statblock. He's had a few appeareances here and there in the decades since.
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