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Cardboard Carnage
Skirmisher
43 Posts
    
Montana
 | | 11/06/2008 8:22 PM |
| | Well, I have put it off for months and months. All of my gaming group buddies made the switch long ago, but I didn't feel like buying new books, reading/learning new rules, etc.
A little background on myself, I was heavily into D&D in the 80's and early 90's (before the switch to 2nd edition) while I was in Jr. High and High School. I usually was the DM, as I enjoyed creating the story as much as playing, and all of my old school friends loved when I ran the games.
When the switch was made to 2nd edition, I had reached a point in my life where I had 'grown up', and was focusing on my career and starting a family, then 3.0 and 3.5 showed their faces, and I was in a position to dabble in the game from time to time with friends from my local gaming group. (I have about 10 - 15 hard cover 3.5 books in the attic that I no longer use since everyone I did play with over the last few years has switched to 4th edition).
Now my two oldest sons are of age to be playing D&D (oldest is 14) and they have been having fun with the mini's game.... They've been interested in the RPG and with the recent developments of the minis game being all changed around, I thought this might be a good time to make a move from mini gaming to role playing with use of minis. From what my friends have told me, it is a much better idea to do this with 4th instead of 3.5 (I am told the minis are much more important in 4th), and to be honest, as much as I don't want to sink extra money into 4th books (since I do have all of those 3.5 books), I might as well get going on the current edition with them (anyone want a bunch of 3.5 books cheap? haha).
So today I ordered the new 4th edition starter kit (the new thing that just came out this month I think) as well as the hardcover Monster Manual and the first module for the level 1 characters.
I already have tons of dice and thousands (literally) of minis, so I am thinking we'll be all set to 'get our feet wet' in this game.
I would love some tips, or any info anyone might be able to share to make my transition into 4th edition easier. Remember, for the most part I spent years playing 1st edition, and then some casual 3.5. Do I really need the hardcover Players Handbook and DM's guide to start off, or do those basic rules (or the starter rules I read come in the first module) provide enough info to get us going far enough into it (Level 1-3 or so I guess - I know I'll eventually need the PH and DMG). The only reason I got the 4th edition Monster Manual now was because I enjoy looking through the MM's.
Anyone else used to play D&D as a 'kid' and now discover you can enjoy it again with your kids now? Pretty neat experience!
D. | |
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D-Rock Roberts
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 11/06/2008 8:33 PM |
| Pick up the PHB.
The DMG is really not terribly necessary. If you find yourself using tons of traps, poisons, and disease it might be worth picking up. Also, the relatively short section on balancing encounters is critical but not until you get out of the prepublished modules.
Conversely, the PHB is essential. It has 98% of the rules you need to run the game. The characters included with prepub modules (especially Keep on the Shadowfell) are really subpar. Much better to slap your own together (takes about 15 minutes) and go from there.
Aside from the PHB I can't say there's anything you absolutely need (especially if you have the MM). The DMG is worth a look if you're going to stick with the format.
One other note...don't be too vicious with the monster tactics in Keep on the Shadowfell. It's a good way to off your party. | |
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wicked cool
Underboss
2151 Posts
| | 11/07/2008 7:32 AM |
| | If i were a DM i would not allow my players to run more than 1 character in 4t ed. The game is dramatically different from 3.5. The powers for each class take time getting used to and my group is finding that running 2 pc's at the same time takes a lot of fun out of game and to much time is spent flipping from one section to another. I switched to one character and have been a lot happier. We often had each player run 2 pc's in case party members die. | |
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Cardboard Carnage
Skirmisher
43 Posts
Montana
| | 11/10/2008 9:39 AM |
| Wicked Cool & Zenthrus - thanks for your tip on this, the more I learn on 4th edition, the more this makes sense to me... I used to always allow 2 characters in 1st and 3.5 when I used to DM those, but it does seem like it is a different type of setup now that would lead to confusion, especially for players new to 4e (as we are).
I'll probably have everyone roll up two characters, and keep on 'resting at the inn' or something, in case someone is killed we can rather quickly work their replacement into the scenario.
Question (again, I only have the Starter Rules at this point so I am just gettin' my feet wet), but let me ask this question... if we had 5 players, and they made it up to level 3, and someone died and their 1st level reserve character was to step into the party... how would the 1st level guy hold out in a 3rd level group? How does gaining XP compare to the older versions? (Sorry if that is a basic question).
Thanks,
D.
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D-Rock Roberts
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Auric
Warrior
219 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 12/02/2008 9:19 PM |
| From what I've experienced in my Living Forgotten Realms campaign, if the encounter level given is about level 2 or 3, then while it may be a little challenging, the 1st level guy will be able to hold out, especially if they play a little on the conservative side and also get enough support from the other PCs. For example, we are playing the Scepter Tower of Spellgard module, and most of the party is level 3 or 4, but we do have a couple at level 1 and 2 and they are making like the Brothers Gibb.
That's one of the things I like about 4th edition, that 1st level characters aren't the puny weaklings they were in past editions. While they might not be able to take down a mind flayer or beholder at that level, taking one critical hit from a kobold isn't going to mean their demise anymore. | |
Trade references: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/801085/view/topic/Default.aspx
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Cardboard Carnage
Skirmisher
43 Posts
Montana
| | 12/03/2008 5:13 PM |
| | Yeah, we ran our first game over Thanksgiving... 3 players in total (Warrior, Paladin and Warlock), and it was pretty good. I was the DM and didn't have to tone down the encounters much at all, some were a little difficult, but none came too close to dying (the encounters were for a team of five players).
I liked 4e better than 3.x and am glad I'm getting into it now.
D. | |
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D-Rock Roberts
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tirwin
Sergeant
462 Posts
North Dakota, USA
| | 12/06/2008 1:08 PM |
| I started with the 1st level module starter rules and everything went well. PHB is the most essential book of the bunch as someone has already pointed out. The rules take a little getting use to but the game definitely plays faster. In fact one of our players last week said he had to go to the bathroom but he didn't want to hold the game up because every time he turned around it seemed to be his turn again while in combat! This was unheard of in 3.x as you could sometimes go have lunch and still be back in time for your next turn. Battles can still be lengthy but with quicker rounds everyone stays involved, there is just more hit points for monsters and the damage delivered by both sides is scaled down significantly. To me this adds to the game as battles seem more epic and last more than 24 seconds in the game world. It took a bit of getting use to but the new rules are growing quickly on us all.
My biggest suggestion is to buy 2 or 3 of each Dungeon Tile set you can get your hands on. They are only $10 per pack and are fun and easy to use, not to mention they look very nice and are very sturdy. I have bought three of every set so far and love them. I just use a large piece of black tag board on the game table to build each set up, this makes a nice dark background that really sets off the game table and dungeon tiles. Then I use a piece of scotch tape on the back of the tiles to connect them so they stick together (the tape removes easily with no damage to the tile!) and don't push apart while gaming. I have many sets of expensive Dwarven Forge dungeon sets and barely use them now because these new tiles or so inexpensive and easy to use.
My only question is if anyone has come up with a good way to store the tiles so they are easy to locate and use when searching for a certain piece? I try to build my tiles before we game and then cover unexplored areas using black construction paper. But sometimes I build the set on the fly as well.
I also agree that one PC per player makes for a more enjoyable and fast paced night. In the event of a character death our house rule is the new character will be made at the beginning xp total of the lowest level character still alive. This creates a penalty for dying yet doesn't penalize the person too terribly much. I want my player to care about their characters and their success so to me dying has to have consequences, but yet not ruine anyones fun. This method will usually keep the party within a reasonable level distance from one another. The nice thing is PC now start with some survivable hit point totals because your hp are based on a set number plus you add you ability score total to that number. (ex. if I start with 12 hp plus my Constitution Score is a 15, my starting hit points would be 12 + 15 = 27 hit points!!! No more 7 hp and your dead, thank goodness. | |
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Cardboard Carnage
Skirmisher
43 Posts
Montana
| | 12/06/2008 2:02 PM |
| Thanks for the tips, I ran my first game (3 players and me as DM with an NPC) over thanksgiving and it went very well, I was happy with the new rules and eager to learn more and get deeper into 4e.
I think the rounds have to be longer than 6 seconds though, it just seems like so much is going on with movement, combat, free actions, minor actions, etc., it just doesn't' seem right that entire battles take under a minute in game time with all that happens, otherwise all went well and everyone enjoyed it.
I have 1 of each of the dungeon tile sets, I could probably use some more though, so that would be good to get some extras of.
Yeah, I remember the days of basic D&D where you'r guy would take one good hit at level 1 and be dead. :)
D.
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D-Rock Roberts
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2045 Posts
Portland OR
| | 12/12/2008 2:43 PM |
| My tip is stay basic. Don't dig into extra materials (FR players guide or martial powers for example) until you mastered the old stuff. Also, there isnothing wrong with limiting classes or races for simplicity sake in the begining.
Keep parties managable. 4-5 is plenty if built together but if you only have 2 PCsyou need to run an npc to cover where they lack. You have to have a leader to trigger surges; an npc cleric with multiclass warlord does wonders for party survivability (opposite works too).
Make a ruling during combat and stick with it- page flip later during a break or ask a player who is inactive to look it up and then announce "from now on..."
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