Man of Renown
Wraithborne
Warlord
5309 Posts
    
The Red Light District
 | | 08/16/2007 5:13 PM |
| We were told time after time in post after post, whether here, hordelings, wizards boards, enworld, or wherever, that 4e was still a long way off, wasn't even being worked on or considered at this time and that we would know well in advance when it was coming.
Now we know they've been working on it for over 3 years, a scant year after their last cash grab. Is there any reason we should ever believe anything that anyone from WotC tells us about the future after being lied to since at least May 2004? | |
Eye dun no why youse guys think im not relly a person im jimgang from canada but im moving to cali as soon as i get a master card
-Jimgang
So, you stand at your grave, Has your soul yet been taken away?
So you can't read what's engraved, Is this Heaven or merely Decay?
Was there a light, enchantingly bright, A Question, just how did it end?
Just let me sift through your calm remains, And tear you away from your skin.
-Sumerias Fain. | |
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Thespian
Sergeant
442 Posts
Lethbridge, Alberta
| | 08/16/2007 5:38 PM |
| If they WOULD have told you, would you have bought any 3.5 products, knowing that they system would be changing? In my view - especially after revoking the Dungeon and Dragon magazines from Paizo - this new online version of the game is going in a direction that I am not liking. It looks like they want to tap into the popularity of World of Warcraft gaming. Call me old fashioned, but DnD isn't real if I am sitting alone in my basement. It is a social game that requires face to face people to take in the full enjoyment of it. The beer, the sodas, the snacks, the jokes, the farts, the comraderie...I am sorry, but they can take gleemax and shove it. I am so pissed about everything that have presented so far. I don't want secret online codes to get my game information. As far as telling the truth - WotC has backstabbed its comsumers too many times. I was pissed about the lack of organized play for Dreamblade (after promising 3 years if I remember correctly). More lies about 4th edition. There is no reason why these cash-grabbers (selling two preview books? are you kidding?) are going to get any money of mine any more. | |
A wand of silence means never having to say you're sorry.
CHAMPION OF THE ANNIS HAG!!! | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13099 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 08/16/2007 5:43 PM |
| Posted By Wraithborne on 08/16/2007 5:13 PM
Now we know they've been working on it for over 3 years, a scant year after their last cash grab. Is there any reason we should ever believe anything that anyone from WotC tells us about the future after being lied to since at least May 2004? About a month or two after 4E is released, they'll start musing about 5E. Bank on it. They won't admit it, but they'll start thinking about it.
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WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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DisplacerBunny
Skirmisher
40 Posts
| | 08/16/2007 5:47 PM |
| Posted By Thespian on 08/16/2007 5:38 PM Call me old fashioned, but DnD isn't real if I am sitting alone in my basement.Â
Dude, you are totally right! I sit alone in my basement 6 days a week, If it weren't for D&D i couldn't get my friends to join me down here every sunday. | | | |
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Man of Renown
Wraithborne
Warlord
5309 Posts
The Red Light District
| | 08/16/2007 6:01 PM |
| | Do I think they should've been telling us when they were working on it? No. I do, however, think that repeatedly lying to me over and over has caused at least as much bitterness as any of the rest of the crappy news. No one twisted anybodys arm and forced them to tell us anything. Sometime around May '04 when they began concepting 4e, someone made a conscious decision to lie to all of us....At the very least it is a slap in the face and shows a profound lack of respect to all of their customers. | |
Eye dun no why youse guys think im not relly a person im jimgang from canada but im moving to cali as soon as i get a master card
-Jimgang
So, you stand at your grave, Has your soul yet been taken away?
So you can't read what's engraved, Is this Heaven or merely Decay?
Was there a light, enchantingly bright, A Question, just how did it end?
Just let me sift through your calm remains, And tear you away from your skin.
-Sumerias Fain. | |
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Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6844 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 08/16/2007 6:21 PM |
| I feel that they have definitely lied to us about 4th edition, like Wraithborne has said. I feel cheated and lied to. And I don't appreciate that. I might stop buying WotC books altogether. Or I might get an adventure or two they had already announced and then call it good then.
I really dislike the way they have handled this 4th edition thing.
I also dislike the fact that lurkinglidda says that they haven't decided to ignore us at maxminis, but Ian (of organized play) has not posted here in over a year. They can't admit to us when bad things happen. They can't talk straight to us about it. I hate being "marketed" by marketing. I hate the dishonesty in marketing. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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hazel monday
Warrior
338 Posts
Baltimore MD
| | 08/16/2007 7:12 PM |
| I dunno....
WOTC has done a lot of stuff I didn't like this year. They cancelled Dungeon and Dragon, they've released a bunch of subpar supplements, this DI thing seems pretty iffy.
But I gotta admit, 3rd edition is a pain to DM. Me and my friends have been complaining about that for a while now. If a new edition makes the game more fun and easier to run, of course I'm gonna play it. I usually buy 3 books a year from WOTC anyway so it's not like I'll be spending a ton of extra money on a new core set.
But yeah, they were pretty shady w their main customer base about announcing it. But what are you gonna do? You can choose to take it personally or or choose not to. I'm gonna choose not to take the new edition as a personal insult. I guess I'm taking a "wait and see" attitude. | |
Champion of Phanatons. | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 08/16/2007 7:20 PM |
| Add to the deceit the misinformation about epic cards (is there 4 in NB), the constant statements that they will try to avoid set rotation (now only two legal sets left).
| |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Man of Renown
Wraithborne
Warlord
5309 Posts
The Red Light District
| | 08/16/2007 7:37 PM |
| Hmmm...they also lied to the delegates, telling them at D&DXP time that it would be 2010.
Why would I want to support a company like that?
.....Anyone? Bueller? | |
Eye dun no why youse guys think im not relly a person im jimgang from canada but im moving to cali as soon as i get a master card
-Jimgang
So, you stand at your grave, Has your soul yet been taken away?
So you can't read what's engraved, Is this Heaven or merely Decay?
Was there a light, enchantingly bright, A Question, just how did it end?
Just let me sift through your calm remains, And tear you away from your skin.
-Sumerias Fain. | |
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Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 08/16/2007 11:35 PM |
| | They never lied. They admitted many times that there would be a 4e, it was just a matter of time til it happened. Hasbro likes money, that's why so many games by WotC is dead. | |
Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai.  I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13099 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 08/17/2007 4:47 AM |
| Posted By hazel monday on 08/16/2007 7:12 PM
But I gotta admit, 3rd edition is a pain to DM.
You are soooo right about that. I refuse to DM 3E ever again. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13099 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 08/17/2007 4:50 AM |
| Posted By Corim Danex on 08/16/2007 6:21 PM
I really dislike the way they have handled this 4th edition thing.
I tend to agree but that shouldn't surprise any of us. Look how they handled the whole cancelation of print mags and intro to DI mess. Their communication skills seem to be lacking. However, that is not a problem unique to WotC. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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yack
Commander
3321 Posts
Gatineau Canada
| | 08/17/2007 5:01 AM |
| "Hmmm...they also lied to the delegates, telling them at D&DXP time that it would be 2010."
there is proof about that and that to me is very shady.... like Ghendar said they don't want to hear what the community wants they just want to make $$$ and the younger generation lives behind the computer more then in the outside world. Sad but most of it is true.
I'm upset that they don't care about us and what we want. (esp. the players that have been around since AD&D)
| |
Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
DW: Duergar Priest
RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7737 Posts
| |
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13099 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 08/17/2007 5:07 AM |
| Posted By yack on 08/17/2007 5:01 AM
I'm upset that they don't care about us and what we want. (esp. the players that have been around since AD&D)
Yup. Take us old timers and flip em the big ol bird. I understand wanting to attract new gamers but why does that have to come at the expense of alienating the old timers? I supported D&D from the red Basic set back in '84 right on up till the present time. I bought 2E stuff (and a lot of it) at a time when I wasn't even playing because I enjoyed reading it. I can't see myself doing that moving forward because I don't like some of the direction the game is going.
This, however, is not a strategy unique to WotC either.
| |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13099 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 08/17/2007 5:08 AM |
| Posted By Kaya Kenobi on 08/16/2007 11:35 PM
They never lied.
Yeah, they did. They lied to the delegates about when 4E would be released. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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Man of Renown
Wraithborne
Warlord
5309 Posts
The Red Light District
| | 08/17/2007 6:18 AM |
| Posted By Kaya Kenobi on 08/16/2007 11:35 PM
They never lied.
Yes they did. Many times, on many message boards, the community was told over and over that they weren't working on 4e, there were no current plans for 4e and that we would know when they were. Telling us they were wouldn't have been a good business move, but no one forced them to tell us they weren't. | |
Eye dun no why youse guys think im not relly a person im jimgang from canada but im moving to cali as soon as i get a master card
-Jimgang
So, you stand at your grave, Has your soul yet been taken away?
So you can't read what's engraved, Is this Heaven or merely Decay?
Was there a light, enchantingly bright, A Question, just how did it end?
Just let me sift through your calm remains, And tear you away from your skin.
-Sumerias Fain. | |
|
Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 08/17/2007 7:30 AM |
| | Ah... Then you must have missed it. The designers for the original 3rd edition, Skip and Monte, both admitted that as soon as 3rd was out, they were already making plans for a 4th edition. The WotC people "joked" about a 4.0 in the works, but never directly said they were working on it. Why? Because people for the most part is sheep. I gave up on 3.5, I gave up on DDM over 2 years back... I saw this coming. People like Guy Fullerton wouldn't say what was in the works because they have a no show no tell policy. Do you think 3.5 was off? According to everyone at WotC, 3.0 was a bit rushed out the door. They didn't have time to playtest, and then the 3.0 designers were fired because they opposed the 3.5 changes that were being made. | |
Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai. I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
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portermj
Warrior
332 Posts
| | 08/17/2007 7:45 AM |
| Posted By yack on 08/17/2007 5:01 AM
"Hmmm...they also lied to the delegates, telling them at D&DXP time that it would be 2010."
there is proof about that and that to me is very shady.... like Ghendar said they don't want to hear what the community wants they just want to make $$$ and the younger generation lives behind the computer more then in the outside world. Sad but most of it is true.
I'm upset that they don't care about us and what we want. (esp. the players that have been around since AD&D)
A D&D player making fun of other peoples' social skills? Oh the irony is as thick as the funky musk at a game convention. | |
Do you like games John?
Absolutely! | |
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Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 08/17/2007 7:55 AM |
| Posted By portermj on 08/17/2007 7:45 AM Posted By yack on 08/17/2007 5:01 AM
"Hmmm...they also lied to the delegates, telling them at D&DXP time that it would be 2010."
there is proof about that and that to me is very shady.... like Ghendar said they don't want to hear what the community wants they just want to make $$$ and the younger generation lives behind the computer more then in the outside world. Sad but most of it is true.
I'm upset that they don't care about us and what we want. (esp. the players that have been around since AD&D)
A D&D player making fun of other peoples' social skills? Oh the irony is as thick as the funky musk at a game convention.
Yeah... For the most part, DnD players' social skills lack.
And just so you know, you can keep playing 3rd edition, like I do. I haven't converted much to 3.5, and a friend of mine in Florida still runs an ADnD game. And there hasn't been any new material in years! | |
Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai. I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
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thomast22
Skirmisher
7 Posts
New Jersey
| | 08/17/2007 8:29 AM |
| | I say stick with First Edition! It's got all you need and the artwork is the best! | |
Is life so dear,or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it,Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! | |
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Talistran
Warrior
310 Posts
| | 08/17/2007 8:43 AM |
| I am glad they are moving on to 4th Edition.
1) I create ALL of my own adventures and don't rely on anything they put out. I didn't even swap to 3.5 until a year ago. I've been playing 2nd edition since the 90's and just swapped in 2006.
2)Â The price of books for 3.5 will go down.
The only thing I am worried about is the future of the D&D miniatures. Even then if Hasbro / WotC decides not to do them, I have faith that someone else will.
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Fun little game...
http://www.mgcluster.net/?ac=vid&vid=11028679ac=vid&vid=11028679 | |
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Kaya Kenobi
Underboss
1304 Posts
San Jose, California
| | 08/17/2007 9:05 AM |
| Posted By Talistran on 08/17/2007 8:43 AM
I am glad they are moving on to 4th Edition.
1) I create ALL of my own adventures and don't rely on anything they put out. I didn't even swap to 3.5 until a year ago. I've been playing 2nd edition since the 90's and just swapped in 2006.
2)Â The price of books for 3.5 will go down.
The only thing I am worried about is the future of the D&D miniatures. Even then if Hasbro / WotC decides not to do them, I have faith that someone else will.
Reaper is coming out with nonrandomized prepainted plastic minis.
As far as the books go, what's the cheapest you have seen 2nd or 1st edition books to be at? They are cheap if not in good condition, but so is 3.5. They are expensive and often triple the value if near mint to mint condition. | |
Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley!
I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai. I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else.
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13099 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 08/17/2007 9:11 AM |
| Posted By Kaya Kenobi on 08/17/2007 9:05 AM
 They are expensive and often triple the value if near mint to mint condition. That may be the case for 1st printings of things like the 1E PH or DMG but not for a 8th printing PH. You can get 1st ED stuff in decent shape cheap enough. All it takes is a little digging.
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WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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PaSquall
Underboss
1399 Posts
| | 08/17/2007 2:45 PM |
| And you don't need dozens of supplemental books to "enhance" your game...
But you need a bit of imagination...
My 1E/2E hybrid is still my fave system, and I suspect it will be for a long time. | |
Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
|
Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 08/17/2007 8:39 PM |
| Posted By Ghendar on 08/17/2007 5:08 AM Posted By Kaya Kenobi on 08/16/2007 11:35 PM
They never lied. Yeah, they did. They lied to the delegates about when 4E would be released.
I'm a delegate, and I don't ever recall being told it wasn't coming. I even checked the delegate boards, and every communique I recieved. I checked these boards too, as much as possible. I see a lot of people saying the end is near, and a lot of people saying it'll be much later. Even I thought it would be 2010, and even said so. But, I haven't seen anything from WotC itself. If you have something from WotC, I would love to see it. But I personally was never told, and have not seen or been able to recall, any misinformation from Wizards. Silence, sure, but nothing that could be considered a lie. These are large insults to be bandied, and I think it would be reasonable to expect some proof.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Mushroom King
Thor
Underboss
1938 Posts
| | 08/17/2007 8:43 PM |
| I got worried back when "Products of the Imagination" was dropped as TSR's logo..........
Don't think - Just Buy.
GRIN | |
Cheers !!
----THOR (Atlanta GA)
Kauke@Juno.com (E-Mail me for a current Trade List)
www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=Thor
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13099 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 08/18/2007 7:09 AM |
| Posted By Teflon Jeff on 08/17/2007 8:39 PM Posted By Ghendar on 08/17/2007 5:08 AM Posted By Kaya Kenobi on 08/16/2007 11:35 PM
They never lied. Yeah, they did. They lied to the delegates about when 4E would be released.
I'm a delegate, and I don't ever recall being told it wasn't coming. I even checked the delegate boards, and every communique I recieved. I checked these boards too, as much as possible. I see a lot of people saying the end is near, and a lot of people saying it'll be much later. Even I thought it would be 2010, and even said so. But, I haven't seen anything from WotC itself. If you have something from WotC, I would love to see it. But I personally was never told, and have not seen or been able to recall, any misinformation from Wizards. Silence, sure, but nothing that could be considered a lie. These are large insults to be bandied, and I think it would be reasonable to expect some proof.
Hmm, perhaps my source is/was mistaken.
| |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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Man of Renown
Wraithborne
Warlord
5309 Posts
The Red Light District
| | 08/18/2007 7:57 AM |
| Posted By Teflon Jeff on 08/17/2007 8:39 PM Posted By Ghendar on 08/17/2007 5:08 AM Posted By Kaya Kenobi on 08/16/2007 11:35 PM
They never lied. Yeah, they did. They lied to the delegates about when 4E would be released. I'm a delegate, and I don't ever recall being told it wasn't coming. I even checked the delegate boards, and every communique I recieved. I checked these boards too, as much as possible. I see a lot of people saying the end is near, and a lot of people saying it'll be much later. Even I thought it would be 2010, and even said so. But, I haven't seen anything from WotC itself. If you have something from WotC, I would love to see it. But I personally was never told, and have not seen or been able to recall, any misinformation from Wizards. Silence, sure, but nothing that could be considered a lie. These are large insults to be bandied, and I think it would be reasonable to expect some proof.
Â
I was told this by someone who is a delegate, that he was told around the time of D&D XP that 4e would not come until at least 2010. If he wants to chime in and say who he is, I'll leave that to him. I have no reason whatsoever to doubt this person's integrity though. | |
Eye dun no why youse guys think im not relly a person im jimgang from canada but im moving to cali as soon as i get a master card
-Jimgang
So, you stand at your grave, Has your soul yet been taken away?
So you can't read what's engraved, Is this Heaven or merely Decay?
Was there a light, enchantingly bright, A Question, just how did it end?
Just let me sift through your calm remains, And tear you away from your skin.
-Sumerias Fain. | |
|
Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 08/19/2007 12:58 PM |
| Posted By Wraithborne on 08/18/2007 7:57 AM Posted By Teflon Jeff on 08/17/2007 8:39 PM Posted By Ghendar on 08/17/2007 5:08 AM Posted By Kaya Kenobi on 08/16/2007 11:35 PM
They never lied. Yeah, they did. They lied to the delegates about when 4E would be released. I'm a delegate, and I don't ever recall being told it wasn't coming. I even checked the delegate boards, and every communique I recieved. I checked these boards too, as much as possible. I see a lot of people saying the end is near, and a lot of people saying it'll be much later. Even I thought it would be 2010, and even said so. But, I haven't seen anything from WotC itself. If you have something from WotC, I would love to see it. But I personally was never told, and have not seen or been able to recall, any misinformation from Wizards. Silence, sure, but nothing that could be considered a lie. These are large insults to be bandied, and I think it would be reasonable to expect some proof. Â
I know who you are referring to (and I have found a post by him stating as such on the delegate forums) But nothing more than that. While I trust this person's virtue, I do know that people make mistakes and hear things differently than they are said. I'm not calling him a liar, but one non-official voice does not a corporate lie make. | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Lab Monkey
Commander
4136 Posts
| | 08/19/2007 8:06 PM |
| Feb 19, 2007
" &D Experience, the convention previously known as Winter Fantasy, is now over - and D&D 4th Edition was not announced! From "Abyssal Maw" who was present at the show:
The 4th Edition Question gets a lot of laughter.
"I'm surprised it took this long for someone to ask that. It's going to come at some point. It's a long ways away. You'll get an announcement when that happens, but it's a long ways away. We have a lot of good stuff coming out through 2008.""
Posted here:
http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e
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The Great
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Ghendar
Warlord
13099 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 08/20/2007 4:34 AM |
| Posted By Lab Monkey on 08/19/2007 8:06 PM Feb 19, 2007 "  &D Experience, the convention previously known as Winter Fantasy, is now over - and D&D 4th Edition was not announced! From "Abyssal Maw" who was present at the show: The 4th Edition Question gets a lot of laughter. "I'm surprised it took this long for someone to ask that. It's going to come at some point. It's a long ways away. You'll get an announcement when that happens, but it's a long ways away. We have a lot of good stuff coming out through 2008."" Posted here: http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e
Sounds like an outright lie to me. (cynical ghendar)
Sounds like someone was misinformed. (benefit of the doubt ghendar)
You can decide which one is more likely. Personally, I'm leaning toward the cynical. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
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I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 08/20/2007 8:56 AM |
| Posted By Ghendar on 08/20/2007 4:34 AM
You can decide which one is more likely. Personally, I'm leaning toward the cynical. Ghendar? Cynical? Surely you jest 
Might not be nice to lie to your consumer base, but it makes perfect sense from the marketing perspective (if everyone knew 4E was coming out in 2008 would they have purchased much 3.5 stuff throughout 2006-2007? Probably not).
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 08/20/2007 11:12 AM |
| I still don't see anything other than plausible deniability. Of course they aren't going to use time specific words. Of course they made it sound like it wouldn't be in the next 2 years. They had it timed for GenCon for a reason.
Again, all I see is a marketing department being secretive with propietary industry information. Which is Standard operating procedure. So again, does anyone actually have a lie more firm than "well, my definiton of a long time is [insert value X], and that's not what happened" | |
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wicked cool
Underboss
2151 Posts
| | 08/20/2007 11:16 AM |
| | is wotc any different that say sony or microsoft. do they have to be ehld to higher standards. 7 years is a long time for a game system. ive had 3 jobs since 3.0 came out and 3 kids. ive watched some of my favorite tv shows start and get cancelled and then restart(Farscape). if the rules are simplified and better than i have no problem lied too. i was/am going to still buy older D&d mins and will still buy sets leading up to 4.0. If 4.0 isnt waht i expected then 3.5 wil be where i stay but i dont expect that. | |
The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
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nyjastul69
Commander
2731 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 08/20/2007 12:12 PM |
| Posted By wicked cool on 08/20/2007 11:16 AM
is wotc any different that say sony or microsoft. do they have to be ehld to higher standards. 7 years is a long time for a game system. ive had 3 jobs since 3.0 came out and 3 kids. ive watched some of my favorite tv shows start and get cancelled and then restart(Farscape). if the rules are simplified and better than i have no problem lied too. i was/am going to still buy older D&d mins and will still buy sets leading up to 4.0. If 4.0 isnt waht i expected then 3.5 wil be where i stay but i dont expect that.
I'm not sure about Sony or Microsoft, they're not relevant to the discussion, but I certainly hold WotC to a higher standard than other game co's. | |
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wicked cool
Underboss
2151 Posts
| | 08/20/2007 1:34 PM |
| | right they are not relevant as a paper/pen company but they are relevant in the idea that just because you paid a lot of money for it at 1 point theres no guarantee they wont upgrade it and your system is now obsolete. Xbox and playstation are gaming companies that have upgraded/improved systems and dont care that your old product is no longer compatible with their new systems. 4.0 is the natual progression of the game in my opinion and WOTC owes me nothing in telling me when they are going to release a new product. My question is why are you holding them to a higher standard. this game almsot died out a few years back and without wotc the game probably along with other rolpelaying game companies would have vanished off the map. Hasbro is in this too make money. They answer to stock holders who dont care about the value of your red dragon or your favrite moments in 3.5. A few years 5.0 will come out and many of us will still be here along with new gamers who were introduced to it by parents or friends. i spent a lot of money on ral partha mins and tsr modules back in the 70-80s and i dont miss them. |
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The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
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i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 08/20/2007 3:00 PM |
| | From everything I've been able to piece together, the people at DDXP did not intentionally give misinformation. I think what they said was the framework they were working under. I don't know how these things are decided. Maybe Hasbro wanted to push it up. Maybe they were ready and decided not to wait. Maybe the feedback they got generally told them people wanted it and sooner was better. It could be none of these, but I'm pretty sure it's more comple than we know. | |
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Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 08/20/2007 6:43 PM |
| from another thread  Posted By Olaf the Stout on 08/20/2007 6:22 PM Posted By Lab Monkey on 08/19/2007 7:52 PM Posted By Teflon Jeff on 08/19/2007 12:56 PM
 And again, I personally haven't seen anything where they said "no 4E anytime soon" or the like. But, that's just me. I don't see any lies on Wizards part about 4E. Feb 19, 2007: "I'm surprised it took this long for someone to ask that. It's going to come at some point. It's a long ways away. You'll get an announcement when that happens, but it's a long ways away. We have a lot of good stuff coming out through 2008."Found here: http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e That's what has me a little cheesed off. It's pretty darn misleading given that they were working on 4e since 2005.Â
Lab Monkey,
Scott Rouse has since come out and said that he was misquoted in that statement on EN World. He actually said they had a lot of good stuff coming out this year (as in 2007, not 200 . He didn't want to correct it at the time because it would have pretty much told people that 4E was on the way.
Here is a thread on EN World that goes into more detail:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=204662
Olaf the Stout
Â
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2731 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 08/21/2007 6:00 AM |
| Posted By wicked cool on 08/20/2007 1:34 PM
right they are not relevant as a paper/pen company but they are relevant in the idea that just because you paid a lot of money for it at 1 point theres no guarantee they wont upgrade it and your system is now obsolete. Xbox and playstation are gaming companies that have upgraded/improved systems and dont care that your old product is no longer compatible with their new systems. 4.0 is the natual progression of the game in my opinion and WOTC owes me nothing in telling me when they are going to release a new product. My question is why are you holding them to a higher standard. this game almsot died out a few years back and without wotc the game probably along with other rolpelaying game companies would have vanished off the map. Hasbro is in this too make money. They answer to stock holders who dont care about the value of your red dragon or your favrite moments in 3.5. A few years 5.0 will come out and many of us will still be here along with new gamers who were introduced to it by parents or friends. i spent a lot of money on ral partha mins and tsr modules back in the 70-80s and i dont miss them.
IÂ apologize if I came across as testy, it wasn't intended.Â
I don't have a problem with 4e.  The last time I ranted about an edition change was from 1e to 2e, fortunately, there wasn't anyone around to hear me.  I don't share the thought that I have to change editions or that my D&D collection is some how invalidated. I do think it's too early for an edition change, but I realize my opinion only matters to me. My only 'issue' with 4e is the self realization that I'm a fossil and the designers are moving the game to a place that I don't really want to go to. I hope it works out for WotC.Â
I don't so much hold WotC to a higher standard as I do the holder of the D&D brand. It's 'the world's most famous RPG', and shouldn't suffer from the poor design that sends other rule sets to the cleaners every few years. It shouldn't be following industry trends, it should be setting them.  And it is doing that.  Again, I'm just not fond of where it's leading.
As for Hasbro, I'm a big fan. Their corporate HQ employs a lot of people in my state (RI), and I hope they continue to do so. Â
I can't speak for Xbox, or PSIII, but my PSII is backwards compatible with my PSI games.    Â
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