| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
| | Author | Messages | |
BoloBaby
Sergeant
640 Posts
    
Fort Mill, SC
 | | 08/17/2007 12:48 PM |
| Consider this: they want you to play ONLINE. What is this going to do to the FLGS who keeps the fantasy roleplaying industry alive? Will less groups show up to their game store to play? Will the stores become deserted and finally all shut down?
WotC is kicking in the teeth of the people who peddle their products. Sure, you'll still be able to get their crap at Borders, but the diehards can be found at the FLGS.
IDIOTS!
| |
Champion of the Cleric with Raise Dead | |
|
GuJiaXian
Sergeant
661 Posts
Roswell, GA
| | 08/17/2007 12:52 PM |
| | No, they don't *want* you to play online. Most of the new web-based tools are just that: tools. They've made it clear that they're not turning D&D into some weird hybrid MMO or something (they're holding that "feature" back until 5th edition). | |
"Clearly a case of too many hunchbacks and not enough mad scientists..." | |
|
portermj
Warrior
332 Posts
| | 08/17/2007 5:47 PM |
| Posted By BoloBaby on 08/17/2007 12:48 PM
 Will less groups show up to their game store to play? Will the stores become deserted and finally all shut down?
Man I hope so, the FLGS belly aching is almost to the point where I'd rather see DnD go extinct then hear about how anything that has any kind of an impact on FLGS's IS GOING TO LEAD TO THE END OF TABLE TOP RPGS!!!!!!
Take a breath. Think. If the DI works as advertised it will be a way for people that don't currently have access to a real world DnD group to play the game. You may even get situations like in the Full Frontal Nerdity comic strip where you have a game group where one of the players is in another state entirely. Getting more people into the game is a good thing.
Imagine being able to play DnD with a friend or relative currently studing overseas or who is deployed with the military. Not really something that can be done well now. | |
Do you like games John?
Absolutely! | |
|
DisplacerBunny
Skirmisher
40 Posts
| | 08/17/2007 7:35 PM |
| As a proud partner in a young and struggling comic book // friendly local gaming store, I have already placed emails concerning product release schedules to our local Wizards rep. Monday, my partner already has an appointment for a call to our Wizards supplier direct contact, and at that time will further voice our concerns over product release time tables. As it stands, Wizards could put all of the 4th edition books up for sale online before the stores have a chance.
If Wizards has a virtual E-Book release before a physical shipping date, then there is going to be trouble for businesses like mine that see not an insubstantial portion of the rent come from D&D sales.
However, since they have already stated that the books will have a code available to activate online content (at a nominal fee) then I would assume that they want you to buy both the physical book and then go online and activate it. That way, they get money from book sales, and they get money from online fees.
YES. at first it really stung to read their forthcoming business model, but I am going to wait, and see how it works out. THEN I will rant my pants off... thanks... | | | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 08/17/2007 8:32 PM |
| I'm not worried for a few reasons.
1. Most people still want the book. Isn't that what we're hearing complaints about, people wanting a physical book? The physical book unlocks Online content, not vice versa.
2. Games set up at a FLGS can still exist. the game isn't an MMO, it doesn't require the internet to run. It just makes it easier for you to utilize the internet if you have it. The internet is an excellent tool, and it's finally being wielded by D&D. How many people here play vassal? that probably harms FLGS's more than 4E will. Heck, 4E will probably be a good cashcow, and bring in good revenue.
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
BoloBaby
Sergeant
640 Posts
Fort Mill, SC
| | 08/18/2007 7:30 AM |
| Actually, you must remember, I used to own a FLGS.
I owned the game store when Chronicles came out in Magic. Do you know how many people that set drove away from the game? There were people that would buy boxes at a time that stopped collecting in disgust.
DDM 2.0 is going to be semi-painful. Making earlier sets obsolete without a complete stat overhaul is like... oh, I dunno... printing Chronicles or stopping support for Type I.
D&D 4.0 is going to render whole bookshelves worth of stock in the FLGS as useless. Take a look at the collection of books in your FLGS. How many 3.X books are sitting on the shelves. Now... what do you think is going to happen to the sales of those books?
It all remains to be seen, of course, but I'm pretty convinced that this release is going to be something of a disaster for D&D.
|
|
Champion of the Cleric with Raise Dead | |
|
DisplacerBunny
Skirmisher
40 Posts
| | 08/18/2007 12:31 PM |
| So i've had a chance to simmer down, get some info from people who attended the seminar, read the point by point press releases, and I'm feeling a little bit better about things. Albeit, still edgy. My partner and I had a sit down and talked about things, looked at our quarterly buy list for Wizards, and actually decided to only buy 2 books until december, and at that, only because we had presold them. We have books on shelves that need to move, and an 8 month early announcement is what is really screwing us.
Yes, we are gladly going to take everyone's money when 4e hits shelves. Yes, i'm going to promote the crap out of it. Yes, its going to be good for the gamers... for the gamers...
By announcing 4e 8 months early, they are only suceeding in cutting into our projected sales for the next 6 months. We need to sell so many books a week to have a reason to even support carrying them. On top of that, we need to order X amount dollars of product to keep our Tier in the WotC direct buyers system. Right now, we are not going to sell the books we expected, because people are going to wait it out. Therefore, we aren't going to buy the books that are coming to press soon, so we have to bite the bullet and overbuy on Magic or DDM. DDM 2.0 is going to be backwards compatible with the next few sets, praise the gods, so thats not that bad. Don't get me into what Magic is doing with 4-5 sets a year in rapid succession..... thats a different story. The big picture is, our profit margin is tight, and any disturbance to something that should be a given (like, hmm, D&D core book sales?) is going to hurt.
on the bright side, the good decisions they made:
-online versions are just that, online, not e-book.
-mini which will be sold from now until April are going to be compatible, except Deathknell????? WTF!?!?!?!1!!
-books unlock the website, website gives you goodies to incentivize you to buy books... good!
-pander to the fan boy. we all hate them, but dang, they have fat wallets.
We'll see what happens on Monday when we talk to our distrubutor. | | | |
|
portermj
Warrior
332 Posts
| | 08/18/2007 12:40 PM |
| Posted By DisplacerBunny on 08/18/2007 12:31 PM
-pander to the fan boy. we all hate them, but dang, they have fat wallets.
That's fan man to you.
I for one am pulling for E-books that cost significantly less than the print versions. It is silly how much bookshelf space I have devoted to 2nd/3rd edition books.
Let me ask this question to the F(or not)LGS owners. How did your sale of DnD books compare from a year before 3rd edition and a year after 3rd edition was released? I'm sure we'll see some real crocodile tears flow over how much business they lost when 4th is released. | |
Do you like games John?
Absolutely! | |
|
Star
Sergeant
978 Posts
New Britain, CT
| | 08/18/2007 1:37 PM |
| I'm not insensitive to the FLGS owners concerns. I've always made it a point to buy a large portion of my RPG/Mini's/Boardgames from the stores that I play in when I know all too well that I could get them far cheaper online. Already there are 3.5 books that I had intended to buy that I no longer will - so the short term concerns are very real if I am a typical customer.
There is a long term silver lining though. In many ways I am NOT a typical customer. I own a stupid number of 3.0/3.5 books. I buy D+D books that I really don't need. Most people own the core books and maybe a couple more. The customers that buy one or two books a year will be buying the core books again. It'll be a tough year for the FLGS owners but if they make it through, they should see their sales increase next summer. | |
Champion of Gromph Baenre | |
|
DisplacerBunny
Skirmisher
40 Posts
| | 08/18/2007 2:02 PM |
| star, you got it right. we'll make good money next june, but this christmas season looks grim. Its no mistake that they release the general interest books around the holidays so that Gramma can get the kids something useful.
Portermj, I wasn't in the business in 1998, but my partner was. The thing is, 3rd edition from Wizards, under Hasbro management, took things from the "TSR prints a couple books and a few stores have them" to "Gaming Industry"
a hobby store will hang around for a while and keep itself in business, a store tied to a multimillion dollar supply chain can make a decent living. Hasbro and Wizards have helped alot, but to echo an earlier statement, sometimes when an entire industry hangs on one or two products plus peripherals that one product can make a decision that hurts alot of FLGSs. The statement about Chronicles (and to a greater extent Homelands) killing the early M:tG shops is brutally true. | | | |
|
Star
Sergeant
978 Posts
New Britain, CT
| | 08/18/2007 2:21 PM |
| Posted By DisplacerBunny on 08/18/2007 2:02 PM
star, you got it right. we'll make good money next june, but this christmas season looks grim. Its no mistake that they release the general interest books around the holidays so that Gramma can get the kids something useful.
Then the 4.0 preview books that someone mentioned were available for preorder on Amazon should be released only through game stores to help them weather what will obviously be a long winter.
I'm not surprised they didn't do that - making them available on Amazon will get them out to a far greater number of customers and will generate a greater interest in the new system. But it could have been a good way to help out the FLGS's. | |
Champion of Gromph Baenre | |
| Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6844 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 08/18/2007 5:02 PM |
| Well, when I told an LGS about the news the day after 4.0 was announced, the employee I spoke with swore loudly in WotC's general direction and then said that the owners would be swearing even more loudly when he told them later that day.
That is a lot of 3.X books that may need to be steeply discounted in order to move. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 08/19/2007 9:42 AM |
| | It's pretty similar to when 3.0 came out. Actually, less so. 3.0 and 3.5 have a pretty strong following, so they should move better than the 2E stuff did. I can't refute that the next 6 months will be rough, especially with DDM rebooting at the same time. That's got to hurt as well. You have my sympathies on that, as the DDM reboot, unless the Summer set is fisking spetacular, won't be a cash cow. It won't make up for the lost sales like 4E will. 4E will sell plenty to make up for the 6 months of lost revenue, probably even more. Tht's yet another reason I'm cheesed about the DDM reboot. It's bad for everyone (even WotC) 4E is an upgarde, but DDM 2.0 just needs a rules update, not a Minis ban. | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
roonechr
Sergeant
604 Posts
Kansas City, MO
| | 08/25/2007 9:02 AM |
| I will point out that WoTC did think ahead to release several non-game content supplements after the announcement. I will definitely be buying the Grand History of the Realms as well as the Practical Guide to Monsters and maybe Inn-Fighting (but maybe not Confessions of a Part-time Sorceress). Even the game content accessories like Exemplars of Evil, Elder Evils, and Dungeon Survival Guide seem to be long on "fluff" that is useful no matter what rules you are using. Wizards wants to sell product during fourth quarter as much as the FLGS does; the promise of future sales only counts for so much to the accountants (and stockholders) that inevitably drive decisions in this economy.
The month-by-month release of the core books is also something that seems to benefit stores more than players by spreading out the cash flow, simplifying logistics (receiving, shelf space, cash outlay), and hopefully improving store traffic over a longer period of time.
I too buy everything locally even though I can easily get a better deal online. I feel for the FLGS; it’s a hard business to be in. However, I don’t think Wizards wants the FLGS to go away; I absolutely don’t think they are actively trying to kill them. | |
Champion Of Hydras | |
| 
Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 08/25/2007 8:17 PM |
| Wizards would suffer if they lost game stores. I'm sure a lot of new customers are brought into their various games by introductions that happen in the game store environment.
That said, I hope that they put some effort into helping those stores stay afloat. Sure, sales of 4e books will help, a bit (after all, a lot of people will buy from Amazon instead), but, Wizards needs to push hard for things like game days and the like, to get customers into the stores.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13099 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 08/26/2007 4:59 PM |
| Posted By roonechr on 08/25/2007 9:02 AM
I will point out that WoTC did think ahead to release several non-game content supplements after the announcement. I will definitely be buying the Grand History of the Realms as well as the Practical Guide to Monsters and maybe Inn-Fighting (but maybe not Confessions of a Part-time Sorceress). Even the game content accessories like Exemplars of Evil, Elder Evils, and Dungeon Survival Guide seem to be long on "fluff" that is useful no matter what rules you are using. Wizards wants to sell product during fourth quarter as much as the FLGS does; the promise of future sales only counts for so much to the accountants (and stockholders) that inevitably drive decisions in this economy.
It's a shame that WotC is now releasing books heavy on fluff insted of three or four years ago. They know sales of books heavy on 3.5 crunch will suffer.
| |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
| |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 08/26/2007 6:44 PM |
| Posted By Ghendar on 08/26/2007 4:59 PM Posted By roonechr on 08/25/2007 9:02 AM
I will point out that WoTC did think ahead to release several non-game content supplements after the announcement. I will definitely be buying the Grand History of the Realms as well as the Practical Guide to Monsters and maybe Inn-Fighting (but maybe not Confessions of a Part-time Sorceress). Even the game content accessories like Exemplars of Evil, Elder Evils, and Dungeon Survival Guide seem to be long on "fluff" that is useful no matter what rules you are using. Wizards wants to sell product during fourth quarter as much as the FLGS does; the promise of future sales only counts for so much to the accountants (and stockholders) that inevitably drive decisions in this economy.
It's a shame that WotC is now releasing books heavy on fluff insted of three or four years ago. They know sales of books heavy on 3.5 crunch will suffer.
I don't know, a lot of the Creature type-specific books, and the races books, had a lot of fluff
| |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13099 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 08/26/2007 6:46 PM |
| Posted By Teflon Jeff on 08/26/2007 6:44 PM Posted By Ghendar on 08/26/2007 4:59 PM Posted By roonechr on 08/25/2007 9:02 AM
I will point out that WoTC did think ahead to release several non-game content supplements after the announcement. I will definitely be buying the Grand History of the Realms as well as the Practical Guide to Monsters and maybe Inn-Fighting (but maybe not Confessions of a Part-time Sorceress). Even the game content accessories like Exemplars of Evil, Elder Evils, and Dungeon Survival Guide seem to be long on "fluff" that is useful no matter what rules you are using. Wizards wants to sell product during fourth quarter as much as the FLGS does; the promise of future sales only counts for so much to the accountants (and stockholders) that inevitably drive decisions in this economy.
It's a shame that WotC is now releasing books heavy on fluff insted of three or four years ago. They know sales of books heavy on 3.5 crunch will suffer. I don't know, a lot of the Creature type-specific books, and the races books, had a lot of fluff
The "races" books were for me anyway one big collective "meh"
| |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
| |
|
yack
Commander
3321 Posts
Gatineau Canada
| | 08/31/2007 5:31 AM |
| | I know my flgs is not impressed right now with WOTC for the new edition at all. We talked about it the other night and like 90% of people here, they too believe this is a step in the wrong direction. | |
Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
DW: Duergar Priest
RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
|
Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 08/31/2007 8:05 AM |
| Do 90% of the people here believe that 4.0 is a step in the wrong direction? I'm not under that impression at all, but then again i haven't tried to evaluate any percentage. Also, i hang around other sites too and the response here is probably the least positive of them all, though there is a broad spectrum in all places.
Sky | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
| Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7737 Posts
| |
gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 08/31/2007 10:53 AM |
| | I think there might have been a little more space between the time of the announcement and release, but wrong direction, not necessarily. I really need to hear more about the mechanics. I really like the integration of all the tools we've been using for years. If it still keeps what I like about 3.5 but fixes some of the problems, then it's definitely a good move for me. The more I take a step back and really look at the game, the more I'm coming to realize how needed 4th ed is. Again, I think I might have released it differently, but then I'm not the one making the decisions. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
|
Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 08/31/2007 11:07 AM |
| | From Greyhaze's poll, 75% of the people will switch to 4E. Which doesn't mean that they all think 4E is a good thing for them, but it's indicative that most look at 4E in a favorable way. | |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 08/31/2007 5:06 PM |
| Posted By Skyscraper on 08/31/2007 11:07 AM
From Greyhaze's poll, 75% of the people will switch to 4E. Which doesn't mean that they all think 4E is a good thing for them, but it's indicative that most look at 4E in a favorable way.
Interesting, I'd bet those numbers are pretty accurate. | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 08/31/2007 6:13 PM |
| | This forum in general, not to single any one person out, has a "If it's new it's crap" tone. I think most webforums are like that, frankly. Not to say the comments are unjustified or wrong, just a lot louder, more strident, and usually more negative that the general public. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 09/03/2007 4:24 PM |
| Posted By gss_000 on 08/31/2007 6:13 PM
This forum in general, not to single any one person out, has a "If it's new it's crap" tone. I think most webforums are like that, frankly. Not to say the comments are unjustified or wrong, just a lot louder, more strident, and usually more negative that the general public.
wel, more people tend to complain about what they don't like. People don't tend to be vocal about they're contentment... | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13099 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 09/03/2007 4:58 PM |
| Posted By gss_000 on 08/31/2007 6:13 PM
This forum in general, not to single any one person out, has a "If it's new it's crap" tone.
I, for one, have been quite vocal about changes. However, I will be buying a 4E PH because I am genuinely interested in seeing these changes.
My beef is that if you change too many of the elements that make D&D what it is, you are no longer playing D&D. So for me anyway, new is not necessarily crap, it just might not be what I consider to be D&D.
| |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
| |
|
gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 09/03/2007 6:44 PM |
| | And that is perfectly fair. For me there's been so many changes over the years, I like the game it has been evolving into. Now will this be a good change as well? Not sure yet. I like the beginnings of what they are saying, but for me it's way to early. Like you, I know I'm going to buy it. Whether it's going to be a good step is still to be seen. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
| 
Fun Guy from Yuggoth
Cthulhufnord
Warlord
11113 Posts
Umass Amherst Baby!
| | 09/03/2007 11:13 PM |
| Posted By Skyscraper on 08/31/2007 8:05 AM
Do 90% of the people here believe that 4.0 is a step in the wrong direction? I'm not under that impression at all, but then again i haven't tried to evaluate any percentage. Also, i hang around other sites too and the response here is probably the least positive of them all, though there is a broad spectrum in all places.
Sky
I feel it's too early. Then again I also feel they have either started to run out of ideas for 3.5, or even worse are doling out the "kewl" books much like they do with the minis. | |
Pathetic Earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void - without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe - anything at all - you would have hidden from it in terror. | |
|
Dimitris
Warrior
197 Posts
Athens - Greece
| | 09/04/2007 4:39 AM |
| I don't think I will switch to 4e. Most probably I will start to develop home-made stuff for my campaigns.
IMHO there is no need to change the rules if you have a flexible core system like the 3.5e. Even if you want to introduce a new set of rules to enhance the system you could add them as optional rules. I believe that it would be much better if the WotC invest in building or revamp new worlds and adventures. I know that most of these books will be purchased by the DM and not the players but these are the most valuable intellectual property (IP) that D&D could exploit. Based on this IP you could sell miniatures or novels etc.
IMHO better to let the rules as a basic constant and change them only if it absolutely necessary. I don't feel that 4e was a desperate need for anyone who plays the game.
Dimitris | |
Ha 72/80 De 57/60 Ar 53/60 GoL 67/72 Ab 56/60 Dk 55/60 Af 54/60 Ud 57/60 Wd 58/60 WQ 55/60 BW 58/60 Uh 55/60 NB 57/60 DD 57/60 DuD 54/60 AtG 56/60 | |
| Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6844 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 09/05/2007 5:31 PM |
| I stopped by an FLGS today and talked about the shop owner's opinion of 4th edition. She said that they had an RPG group meeting for D&D 3.5. She said that she was hoping those players would play long enough to start buying their own PHB's and maybe other stuff. She said that after they heard about 4.0 and some things about 4.0, they quit D&D altogether. She said that she wasn't really interested in getting 4.0 stuff and will likely continue supporting 3.5 after 4.0 comes out. She did not think favorably of WotC bringing out a new edition.
What some people don't realize is that for some people, it is not as important which changes are made with a new edition as the fact that a new edition is coming out at all. The very fact that a new edition is coming out (and 3.5 materials will essentially be incompatible) which is the problem.
For a more direct quote from her, she said she thinks WotC is shooting themselves in the foot by coming out with 4.0 they way they are.
| |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
|
Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 09/05/2007 11:42 PM |
| Posted By Corim Danex on 09/05/2007 5:31 PM
For a more direct quote from her, she said she thinks WotC is shooting themselves in the foot by coming out with 4.0 they way they are.
And with how they're releasing DDM 2.0. And with how they're only releasing MtG Master's set online. And with Plansewalkers in Lorwyn (getting unfortunately negative feedback from the local MtG judges/drafters/liasons). And with the Digital Initiative in general (lots of negative feedback on several message boards). And with the serious problems with timely product placement (previews are negligent, retailer promo materials are excessively late--at least in the MtG realm).
I have a feeling, however, that a lot of careful consideration went into some of these decisions. There are some smart people working in brand management on WotC products. It just seems awfully messy to drop as many bombs as they have at the same time (perhaps it's better to drop all your bombs simultaneously than drag out horking off your consumer base over a prolonged period?).
On the flip side, a lot of gaming stores needed a slap in the face. Bad business plans and remedial marketing strategies ought not be rewarded. Unfortunately, the bombs will hurt the stores with good business models as well (at least in the short term).
| |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
|
portermj
Warrior
332 Posts
| | 09/06/2007 7:07 PM |
| Posted By zenthrus on 09/05/2007 11:42 PM And with the Digital Initiative in general (lots of negative feedback on several message boards).
| |
Do you like games John?
Absolutely! | |
| Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6844 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 09/06/2007 8:11 PM |
| Posted By portermj on 09/06/2007 7:07 PM Posted By zenthrus on 09/05/2007 11:42 PM And with the Digital Initiative in general (lots of negative feedback on several message boards).
To be fair, it is hard to take negative feedback on a product that isn't even in beta testing seriously. If internet forums were good predictors Ultimate Spiderman would have been a flop.
| |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
| Man of Renown
Wraithborne
Warlord
5309 Posts
The Red Light District
| | 09/06/2007 8:32 PM |
| Posted By Corim Danex on 09/06/2007 8:11 PM
I don't even know what Ultimate Spiderman is, so maybe it was a flop for me.
QFT | |
Eye dun no why youse guys think im not relly a person im jimgang from canada but im moving to cali as soon as i get a master card
-Jimgang
So, you stand at your grave, Has your soul yet been taken away?
So you can't read what's engraved, Is this Heaven or merely Decay?
Was there a light, enchantingly bright, A Question, just how did it end?
Just let me sift through your calm remains, And tear you away from your skin.
-Sumerias Fain. | |
| Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7737 Posts
| | 09/07/2007 6:56 AM |
| | I know what it is, but thought it was flop... guess I was wrong. o_O | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
| E Thug of the
Round Table
Wolfgang
Warlord
6637 Posts
Milton, Ontario Canada
| | 09/07/2007 7:19 AM |
| | my LGS is not happy and wonders who will buy 3.X edition books when in 8 months the will be no good | |
Proud member since March 26 2005
Champion of the SIVAK DRACONIAN
Completed trades: (94)
Bad traders(2) DJchuckles, sardal
Called shots:Sivak Draconian in DD
Trade References
Email Me | |
|
nyjastul69
Commander
2731 Posts
Rhode Island
|
| 09/07/2007 8:27 AM |
| Posted By Wraithborne on 09/06/2007 8:32 PM Posted By Corim Danex on 09/06/2007 8:11 PM
I don't even know what Ultimate Spiderman is, so maybe it was a flop for me.
QFT
No idea either. I'm about to google it however.Â
Edit: Apparently it's both a video game and a comic. | |
| |
|
portermj
Warrior
332 Posts
| | 09/07/2007 8:36 AM |
| Posted By Corim Danex on 09/06/2007 8:11 PM Posted By portermj on 09/06/2007 7:07 PM Posted By zenthrus on 09/05/2007 11:42 PM And with the Digital Initiative in general (lots of negative feedback on several message boards).
To be fair, it is hard to take negative feedback on a product that isn't even in beta testing seriously. If internet forums were good predictors Ultimate Spiderman would have been a flop. I don't even know what Ultimate Spiderman is, so maybe it was a flop for me.
If you didn't see Superbad does that mean it is a flop? Ultimate Spiderman is a very successful comic that had the longest collabaration between a writer and an artist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_spiderman
This is the age of the internet, there is no excuse for ignorance. If you have time to write a snarky post you have time to do a search.
| |
Do you like games John?
Absolutely! | |
|
Fun Guy from Yuggoth
Cthulhufnord
Warlord
11113 Posts
Umass Amherst Baby!
| | 09/07/2007 8:39 AM |
| I saw Superbad last night actually. Enjoyable movie.  | |
Pathetic Earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void - without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe - anything at all - you would have hidden from it in terror. | |
|
| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
| |
ActiveForums 3.7 | You must be signed in to participate in the
games. |