IHawk
Underboss
1054 Posts
    
Lisle, Illinois
 | | 02/08/2006 10:25 PM |
| Does anyone want to venture a guess on what we are going to see a bunch of at Saturday's midwest open.
I am guessing
Coatl + Marut
Chralls
Helmed horrors in excess!
any other guesses?
(no I'm not fishing for warband ideas, I am anxious!) | |
mark - Champion of the Goblin Worg Riders | anteblue_at_yahoo_dot_com
IHawk's Have/Want List | IHawk's Trade List | Completed Trades - 214 | Pending Trades - 0
| |
|
Ack
Underboss
1476 Posts
| | 02/08/2006 10:37 PM |
| Other things I planed for -
Frenzied Berserkers
Dark Flame (Naga, Gauth, LE Beaters)
Beholder
Archmage
CE Quad / Quint
LRD
LSD
Monks
What will probably get played? 80% of that. But yeah - Helmed Horrors are gonna be everywhere. So play something that can kill them easily. | |
Minis... Serious Business
Completed Trades (18 ) | Pending Trades (0)
Ebay seller to Avoid –Fantasy_Quest_Dist
| |
|
bshugg
Underboss
1832 Posts
| | 02/08/2006 10:42 PM |
| Its gonna be a good fight thats for sure! Its gonna be tough having to watch people play rather than battling it out myself. [:)]
I would bet that over half the field will be with LE, a sprinkling of LG and the rest mostly CE. In an unsure format people go with what they are comfortable with. I would be suprised if theres more than just a few CG bands.
Come up with the "Anti-LE" LE band and things will go well for you.
| |
Looking for someone to cosponser a midwest DDM event. let me know if your interested!
Check out my brand new blog:
http://bshugg.blogspot.com | |
|
Herald of Winter
Rav950
Warrior
340 Posts
| | 02/09/2006 12:33 AM |
| I think the better way to put it is "what will the bands that survive to the second half consist of?"
I see a lot of CE and a lot of anti-CE. CE is taking a beating in the current metagame, with AC22+ pieces all over lawful alignments with solid hits and damage wrapped into the package. However, the classic CE beaters still deliver reasonably consistent results when piloted properly.
The bands you can be certain will be taking to the field:
- Multiple Red Samurai, as they have high attack bonuses and AoE damage... two things needed to respond to the high AC metagame.
- 3 Gith Monk & Young Master with Couatl support
- 3 Helmed Horror (not 4)
- Multiple commanders.... the midwest open is using the OOC move 2 rules, so you can expect bands running one primary commander and a secondary 20-point commander to provide supplemental support/init.
Stuff you might see:
- Marut with Couatl support
- Dark Naga/Gauth with Duergar/Helmed Horror support
- Zombie White Dragon as a meaty lead-in to a CE band.
- Chraals in light doses. They can't hit the high ACs reliably, and a Couatl shuts them down. Anyone running 3-4 Chraals tied to a commander isn't likely to go far.
- Multi Death Slaad, in an attempt to counter all the lawful bands (this will not go too far... Death Slaad is a great piece, but still not quite enough).
Unlikely to appear:
Pretty much anything CG, including:
- Archmage
- Inspired Frenzy, Go-go-goliath and derivatives
- First turn CG fireballs, since there is a lot less fodder to clear in 8 activation.
I'll give an outside chance to Greenfang Bears due to the high AC environment, but its still far too vulnerable a band.
Also not appearing in this film:
- Beholders; Helmed Horrors are too prevalent
- Ogre Ravager; its slow and can't hit AC25 reliably.
- Anything else not mentioned
As far as maps, I'd come prepared for Magma Keep, Drow Outpost and Mushroom Cavern. Magma Keep and Drow Outpost for their massive LOS gains, Mushroom Cavern for its bottleneck. I'd be surprised if someone ran Hellspike, even though it is an extremely strong choice for melee-heavy bands that have a secondary commander. | |
Thanks for the memories. :) | |
|
dj-chuckles
Underboss
2455 Posts
The State that invented Spam!
| |
PatEllis15
Commander
4463 Posts
| | 02/09/2006 7:29 AM |
| quote:
- 3 Helmed Horror (not 4)
- Multiple commanders.... the midwest open is using the OOC move 2 rules, so you can expect bands running one primary commander and a secondary 20-point commander to provide supplemental support/init.
Well, the New England Open used OOC Move 2 rules, and Penta Chrall and quad horrors did very well....
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
|
CSchroder
Sergeant
413 Posts
| | 02/09/2006 8:30 AM |
| | Good luck to all the participants! Sounds like a blast and I wish I lived closer but us East Coasters will just have to be satisfied with Winter Fantasy in two weeks[:D] | |
Charles AKA The Beardless One, Proud Member of Team Amish | |
|
Avatar of the Tank
Newtoncain
Commander
2985 Posts
Land of 10,000 taxes
| | 02/09/2006 9:49 AM |
| | Have fun. I really wanted to come, but couldn't swing it. | |
They just don't know what's good in life...Conan, tell them what is good in life.
To rip the boosters. To count the minis spilled out before you, and to hear the indifference of the women... | |
|
dj-chuckles
Underboss
2455 Posts
The State that invented Spam!
| |
Herald of Winter
Rav950
Warrior
340 Posts
| | 02/09/2006 11:02 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by PatEllis15
quote:
- 3 Helmed Horror (not 4)
- Multiple commanders.... the midwest open is using the OOC move 2 rules, so you can expect bands running one primary commander and a secondary 20-point commander to provide supplemental support/init.
Well, the New England Open used OOC Move 2 rules, and Penta Chrall and quad horrors did very well....
I read the report, but didn't hear anything about them. *5* Chraals? 175 points. Sounds like they must have been tied to SNIG for activation control. I can't believe anything so reckless went so far.
Quad Horrors sounds more feasible, but still should not have fared so well. Commander assassination is going to be a popular theme for the Open... I've already designed my band to acheive and counter it.
Anyhow, Saturday looms. Looking forward to it. | |
Thanks for the memories. :) | |
|
dj-chuckles
Underboss
2455 Posts
The State that invented Spam!
| |
kgradert13
Sergeant
909 Posts
| | 02/09/2006 11:14 AM |
| Who cares is you asassinate a commander when the maps are so small, especially with Quad HH.
By the beginning of round 2, on most maps they are within rush range (if not charge) after that, no need for the commander 0 they normally run. | |
| |
|
EldritchSoul
Warrior
324 Posts
| | 02/09/2006 11:23 AM |
| | midwest open is in Niles, IL, at pasttimes games. | |
Champion of Dracotaur- Vindicated!
T32 | |
|
lynchpt
Sergeant
926 Posts
| | 02/09/2006 11:28 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Rav950
quote:
Originally posted by PatEllis15
quote:
- 3 Helmed Horror (not 4)
- Multiple commanders.... the midwest open is using the OOC move 2 rules, so you can expect bands running one primary commander and a secondary 20-point commander to provide supplemental support/init.
Well, the New England Open used OOC Move 2 rules, and Penta Chrall and quad horrors did very well....
I read the report, but didn't hear anything about them. *5* Chraals? 175 points. Sounds like they must have been tied to SNIG for activation control. I can't believe anything so reckless went so far.
Adam's 5 Chrall band was tied to Snig, as you guessed. It's risky, but not as much as you think. With proper care, Snig is invulnerable to warbands without flyers. Even against flyers, with Snig in a corner and two Chralls surrounding him, he is safe from basing. That still leaves 3 Chralls to go fighting, say Helmed Horrors. That is not a great matchup for the Chralls, but they have an outside chance with the breath weapons and deathbursts. Believe it or not, 4 Red Sams don't fare that well against 5 Chralls (Adam beat a Quad Sam team). Basically, the only extremely tough matchups left are LRD (especially 2 of them) and Death Slaad armies. Adam gambled that they wouldn't show up, or would lose before they got to him, and he was right. His only loss came to Marut/Dual Coatl, who just beat down the Chraals.
As someone else pointed out, The Helmed Horrors don't even need Snig after the beginning of round 2, and proper placement guarantees Snig will live that long. In the ten matches Adam and I played, no one ever got a swing off on Snig. In my case, they could have gotten him, but probably realized that he was not worth the effort.
Pat Lynch | |
Dreamblade Rules Advisor | |
|
Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 02/09/2006 11:39 AM |
| | I predict there will be lots and lots of minis. :P | |
I am not gone. | |
|
Sharn Inquisitor
Underboss
1623 Posts
| | 02/09/2006 11:45 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ack
Other things I planed for -
Frenzied Berserkers
Dark Flame (Naga, Gauth, LE Beaters)
Beholder
Archmage
CE Quad / Quint
LRD
LSD
Monks
What will probably get played? 80% of that. But yeah - Helmed Horrors are gonna be everywhere. So play something that can kill them easily.
The thing that is nice about these lists...look at the variety of what you might be facing. Heck, if everyone shows up with something different, it's all good. | | | |
|
Temperance
Sergeant
522 Posts
| | 02/09/2006 12:13 PM |
| For more info on the Midwest Open, go here:
http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13753 | |
Champion of the common Flying Monkey (Fez optional)
Peter Lee on the WotC board
BAD WOLF
| |
|
Herald of Winter
Rav950
Warrior
340 Posts
| | 02/09/2006 2:34 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by lynchpt
Adam's 5 Chrall band was tied to Snig, as you guessed. It's risky, but not as much as you think. With proper care, Snig is invulnerable to warbands without flyers. Even against flyers, with Snig in a corner and two Chralls surrounding him, he is safe from basing. That still leaves 3 Chralls to go fighting, say Helmed Horrors. That is not a great matchup for the Chralls, but they have an outside chance with the breath weapons and deathbursts. Believe it or not, 4 Red Sams don't fare that well against 5 Chralls (Adam beat a Quad Sam team). Basically, the only extremely tough matchups left are LRD (especially 2 of them) and Death Slaad armies. Adam gambled that they wouldn't show up, or would lose before they got to him, and he was right. His only loss came to Marut/Dual Coatl, who just beat down the Chraals.
As someone else pointed out, The Helmed Horrors don't even need Snig after the beginning of round 2, and proper placement guarantees Snig will live that long. In the ten matches Adam and I played, no one ever got a swing off on Snig. In my case, they could have gotten him, but probably realized that he was not worth the effort.
Pat Lynch
Interesting rundown on the Chraals for sure. Certainly a tough matchup for standard CE beats, gotta love that. They'd definitely give a standard Gith Monk band some headaches. The morale save when coupled with Snig as a commander isn't great though, and their speed is high enough to zip out of rally range in a hurry. I still wouldn't give that band good odds, especially when losing the init advantage. I guess a lot of it has to do with the skill and patience of the opponent too... anyhow, I hope someone runs 5 Chraal against me... ;)
| |
Thanks for the memories. :) | |
|
kgradert13
Sergeant
909 Posts
| | 02/12/2006 2:26 AM |
| There were 30 players at this event. Let's check the predictions.
quote:
- Multiple Red Samurai, as they have high attack bonuses and AoE damage... two things needed to respond to the high AC metagame.
Top finish - 6th.
quote:
- 3 Gith Monk & Young Master with Couatl support
Top finish 5th or 7th
quote:
- 3 Helmed Horror (not 4)
Top finish - maybe 7th or 8th, or below 11
quote:
Stuff you might see:
- Marut with Couatl support
Top finish - 3rd
quote:
- Dark Naga/Gauth with Duergar/Helmed Horror support
Top finish - below 11
quote:
- Zombie White Dragon as a meaty lead-in to a CE band.
Top finish - Sir Not-Appearing In the Tourny
quote:
- Chraals in light doses. They can't hit the high ACs reliably, and a Couatl shuts them down. Anyone running 3-4 Chraals tied to a commander isn't likely to go far.
Top Finish - 4th (single Chraal)
quote:
- Multi Death Slaad, in an attempt to counter all the lawful bands (this will not go too far... Death Slaad is a great piece, but still not quite enough).
Top finish - 11th
quote:
Unlikely to appear:
Pretty much anything CG, including:
- Archmage
- Inspired Frenzy, Go-go-goliath and derivatives
- First turn CG fireballs, since there is a lot less fodder to clear in 8 activation.
All accurate
quote:
I'll give an outside chance to Greenfang Bears due to the high AC environment, but its still far too vulnerable a band.
Also not appearing in this film:
- Beholders; Helmed Horrors are too prevalent
- Ogre Ravager; its slow and can't hit AC25 reliably.
- Anything else not mentioned
1st place was Quad LE - Rakshasa, Helmed Horror, Duergar Champ x2, Efreeti, Kobold Miner x2
2nd place was LRD, Tiefling Capt, Eye of Gruumsh, Orc Champion and fodder.
No beholder or ravager though. | |
| |
|
Herald of Winter
Rav950
Warrior
340 Posts
| | 02/12/2006 9:01 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by kgradert13
There were 30 players at this event. Let's check the predictions.
quote:
Stuff you might see:
- Marut with Couatl support
Top finish - 3rd
quote:
- Chraals in light doses. They can't hit the high ACs reliably, and a Couatl shuts them down. Anyone running 3-4 Chraals tied to a commander isn't likely to go far.
Top Finish - 4th (single Chraal)
quote:
Unlikely to appear:
Pretty much anything CG, including:
- Archmage
- Inspired Frenzy, Go-go-goliath and derivatives
- First turn CG fireballs, since there is a lot less fodder to clear in 8 activation.
All accurate
1st place was Quad LE - Rakshasa, Helmed Horror, Duergar Champ x2, Efreeti, Kobold Miner x2
2nd place was LRD, Tiefling Capt, Eye of Gruumsh, Orc Champion and fodder.
I'm pleased to see Curt managed to pull out a first place win; the dice were definitely not on his side during our matchup and I know that was a frustrating loss for him. I'd be interested to see the report on that.
As for my 4th place; I played like a bonehead from the start of my first playoff game. David aced both my Ogre Mage and Chraal at the start of the second round, then followed it up with a very solid crit on one of my remaining beaters making it rout... I just decided it was my time to lose. I already had the validation I needed from the day, and a play-off for third place just didn't seem as good to me as getting home at a reasonable hour.
I credit a good portion of my wins to Snig and the goblins he brings with him. They scored 30 damage on a Helmed Horror in my round 3 game! But mostly, the superior activation control helped me mitigate the initiative losses and get optimal positioning as well as delay critical actions for the optimal moments.
The Gith Monk band was my 4th matchup. Elliot was the most cunning opponent I played all night; he had definitely practiced his game out well and used Hellspike to fantastic effect. I expect the next time I see him he'll have something even more devious in tow. He used the Hellspike smoke to conceal his monks and then dash out to score victory points while denying them to his enemies. This was my closest match all day, and would have been a loss except for the smoke blocking his ability to rally his pieces (I routed one Gith off the table) and also causing Move2 problems (since current OOC move2 rules were still in effect). I also had some vital fore-knowledge of my opponent's tactics from a friend of mine who faced him first round and lost... this definitely worked to my advantage in the early stages.
The real shocker were how many bands present that were non-meta. There was a Balor band with Ogre Ravager, Taer and Cursed Spirit that got aced early, and several Justicators at the table. Very unexpected. I faced a Triple Berzerker band in my first match, also unexpected.
Anyhow, a great day. I look forward to the next MidWest Open event... the organizer is hoping for every 6 months. Thanks to Wizards and the organizers for making this a fantastic event. | |
Thanks for the memories. :) | |
|
Tactician
Sergeant
888 Posts
| |