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ccolinh
Sneak
144 Posts
    
 | | 02/23/2006 6:14 PM |
| Mods - feel free to move this if you like...
I am possibly running a tournament at Gencon this year for another game (Heroscape). And I have some questions regarding the Swiss pairing system.
I'd like to run Swiss round followed by a championship much like DDM does. We are expecting we can fill a tourney with , at least, 50 players maybe more.
My questions..
1. Where are the break points that decide how many Swiss rounds are needed based on number of entrants?
For instance the DDM Championship had almost 100 players and they had 7 rounds of Swiss...
If I have 50, is 4 rounds enough or do I need 5??
2. Pro's and Con's of allowing/disallowing intentional draws.
3. If I take the top 8 to a champ round - what do I do if 8th and 9th place are tied exactly - I ran a tourney recently on the DCI software and we took the top 4 to a champ round - places 5 and 6 were exactly tied across the board - I want to avoid this making a problem for determining my top 8.
I have other logistical concerns but these are my first questions.
ccolinh | |
Champion of the ???
Completed Trades (19): Raland, Frostrune, Ghendar (x2), Siddartha of Suburbia (x2), ckissee, doubtofbuddha, dagonet, jgsugden, Bugsy, smetzger, sttmxn, Drakkengi, Vrecknidj, Caustic_Mouse, lyus_sleyden, shoesan, Username, | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10445 Posts
United States
| | 02/23/2006 9:37 PM |
| You can calculate the break points yourself by just plotting out some possible numbers of entrants. But, in general, since people are playing 2 at a time, the "ideal" number of matches and players will be a number that's 2 to a power (2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, etc.).
So, with 8 to 16 players, it'll probably be 4 rounds;
with 17 to 32 players, it'll probably be 5 rounds;
with 33 to 64 players, it'll probably be 6 rounds.
I think.
Don't allow intentional draws. The pro is that the top players before the cut can take an hour off and chill--nobody else gains anything from it, and the top players will probably either 1) win, or 2) face each other near the end and both advance anyway.
If you have an "exact" tie and there's absolutely nothing to break the tie, have a dice off. Have both players roll a die, set the rules (no bumps, no spins, no dice on the floor, etc.) and the higher roll moves on. This way, whoever loses, gets to blame fate and not the judge, another player, or himself.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Zaukrie
Underboss
2007 Posts
| | 02/23/2006 9:52 PM |
| Well, if I don't qualify for DDM, I may be in. I've only played a handful of games of HS, but I own all the minis.
Do not allow IDs. They generate nothing but bad feelings. I know that I lost fair and square in the MN qualifier, but thanks to my opponent taking an ID in one round, and then his opponent forfeiting the next, my opponent in the championship had 2 hours off to rest his brain before I lost to him. That may not be why I lost, but there were a lot of people that aren't me that were/are angry about it.
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Fastest dropping DCI ranking on record!
Champion of Juiblex | |
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Zoons
Underboss
1066 Posts
| | 02/23/2006 9:53 PM |
| | Vrec has the rounds right (althogh 8 is only 3 rounds, 9-16 is 4). | |
Never teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of time and it annoys the pig.
Champion of the Blink Dog. | |
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Zaukrie
Underboss
2007 Posts
| | 02/23/2006 9:59 PM |
| Zoons is correct on the 9-16 thing.
I'd recommend breaking ties with die rolls also. Luck plays a part in the game. | |
Fastest dropping DCI ranking on record!
Champion of Juiblex | |
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ccolinh
Sneak
144 Posts
| | 02/24/2006 9:57 AM |
| Thanks for all the replies. Definitely helps.
I pretty much feel the same way on the ID subject and I did not allow it in the last HS tourney I ran.
I will be trying to play as much DDM as I can this Gencon so it looks like (if this HS thing happens) my Gencon trip will be pretty busy.[:)]
No complaints here though.
I'll post details once things are more set in stone. | |
Champion of the ???
Completed Trades (19): Raland, Frostrune, Ghendar (x2), Siddartha of Suburbia (x2), ckissee, doubtofbuddha, dagonet, jgsugden, Bugsy, smetzger, sttmxn, Drakkengi, Vrecknidj, Caustic_Mouse, lyus_sleyden, shoesan, Username, | |
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alepulp
Underboss
1538 Posts
Manchester, England
| | 02/24/2006 10:21 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zaukrie
Zoons is correct on the 9-16 thing.
I'd recommend breaking ties with die rolls also. Luck plays a part in the game.
In DDM ties work slightly differently also:
1) Closest to middle of map
2) If both are the same - then the highest value piece nearest the centre wins
3) the roll a dice | |
One of these days WoTC will update their tournament page when I'm in the top 5... they never seem to do when I'm in that bracket :(
My Collection My DDM Website And My Trade Refs Be a part of the UK DDM Forum
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Gnolaum
Sergeant
854 Posts
| | 02/24/2006 11:10 AM |
| When tied on match points, the DCI software has a number of methods of breaking ties.
The first is your win%. This is designed for games where you play more than one match a round. Going 2-0 is better than 2-1.
The second is your opponents win percentage. Theory being is that if you face more difficult opponents you should score higher.
The third is your opponents opponents win percentage. Getting into strange territory here
The forth, and final, tiebreaker is entry time into the tournament.
I've been cut out of the top cut twice on that %$#@%$# forth tiebreaker. I now register early for tournaments. | |
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ccolinh
Sneak
144 Posts
| | 02/24/2006 1:37 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Gnolaum
When tied on match points, the DCI software has a number of methods of breaking ties.
The first is your win%. This is designed for games where you play more than one match a round. Going 2-0 is better than 2-1.
The second is your opponents win percentage. Theory being is that if you face more difficult opponents you should score higher.
The third is your opponents opponents win percentage. Getting into strange territory here
The forth, and final, tiebreaker is entry time into the tournament.
I've been cut out of the top cut twice on that %$#@%$# forth tiebreaker. I now register early for tournaments.
Right, this is the problem I had previously and all the above were all tied. The breaker was that rank 5 had been entered in the system ahead of rank 6 at the beginning of the tourney. What a really crappy way of losing a tie! This isn't all that common is it?
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Champion of the ???
Completed Trades (19): Raland, Frostrune, Ghendar (x2), Siddartha of Suburbia (x2), ckissee, doubtofbuddha, dagonet, jgsugden, Bugsy, smetzger, sttmxn, Drakkengi, Vrecknidj, Caustic_Mouse, lyus_sleyden, shoesan, Username, | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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ccolinh
Sneak
144 Posts
| | 02/24/2006 4:05 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
It happens. Is it terribly common? Not really, but it happens with enough frequency that it deserves mention.
Does DCI have an official way to deal with this occurence?? | |
Champion of the ???
Completed Trades (19): Raland, Frostrune, Ghendar (x2), Siddartha of Suburbia (x2), ckissee, doubtofbuddha, dagonet, jgsugden, Bugsy, smetzger, sttmxn, Drakkengi, Vrecknidj, Caustic_Mouse, lyus_sleyden, shoesan, Username, | |
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Gnolaum
Sergeant
854 Posts
| | 02/24/2006 4:58 PM |
| Yes, entry time into the tournament.
The DCI reporter and the Swiss system is primarily designed for Magic The Gathering and similiar type games where you have 3 games per matches.
It runs into real problems when trying to deal with games such as DDM and other miniature games that only have 1 game per match.
I would propose a system such as the following for DDM:
1) Match Points (3 per win, 0 per loss/tie)
2) Total VPs scored by you against opponents
3) Total VPs scored against you by your opponents
4) Total VPs all your opponents have scored
5) Entry time into the tournament
In fact, I think I may right up a detailed mathametical/satistical analysis of this. | |
My online store http://store.hoardsters.com
Use quick search to see scans of every stat card! | |
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