Talistran
Warrior
310 Posts
    
 | | 03/09/2006 11:27 AM |
| of people complaining about duplicate rares in a case?!
I know I sure do. What is it that you guys expect? To buy "two cases" or "three cases" and have one of each rare before they dare put a random duplicate?
Seriously, it is ridiculous the amount of complaints I hear about it.
For those who aren't aware of it, Wizards has chosen to distribute these miniatures by random, with a rare, a few uncommons and several commons per booster. RANDOM.
If it was up to me, I would have them randomize it COMPLETELY so that you could EASILY end up with 3 or 4 duplicates in a case... and stop wasting time working on getting that "perfect" non-random distribution of random rares.
*shakes head in dismay*
I am sure I'll get flamed by some, but dang it if some people aren't whining just to be able to whine.
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Sharn Inquisitor
Underboss
1623 Posts
| | 03/09/2006 11:30 AM |
| | Talistran, the point is that many of us thought the days of duplicate rares were over with and it seems to have come back. No biggie. | | | |
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 03/09/2006 11:33 AM |
| But when people buy 3 cases they have to expect duplicates. One of the reasons we all come to this site is to trade, if we get no duplicates, then we don't trade. I think that getting a duplicate in a case is not as big a deal as others make it out to be.
I'm in agreement with Talistran on this point. | |
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Benimoto
Underboss
1125 Posts
| | 03/09/2006 11:46 AM |
| There do seem to be a lot of threads about it. I mean on one hand, you have people saying "hey, having 16 commons is awesome!" And then some of the same people are like "hey, having 23 rares means I get more duplicates? I'm mad!"
I can't blame people for wanting it all, but I wonder if these were the right trade-off for Wizards to make. Would having only 12 commons (and subsequently getting 8/12 of them in a starter) annoy people as much as the duplicate rares seem to? | |
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glumag
Warlord
5968 Posts
| | 03/09/2006 11:47 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Talistran
of people complaining about duplicate rares in a case?!
I know I sure do. What is it that you guys expect? To buy "two cases" or "three cases" and have one of each rare before they dare put a random duplicate?
Seriously, it is ridiculous the amount of complaints I hear about it.
For those who aren't aware of it, Wizards has chosen to distribute these miniatures by random, with a rare, a few uncommons and several commons per booster. RANDOM.
If it was up to me, I would have them randomize it COMPLETELY so that you could EASILY end up with 3 or 4 duplicates in a case... and stop wasting time working on getting that "perfect" non-random distribution of random rares.
*shakes head in dismay*
I am sure I'll get flamed by some, but dang it if some people aren't whining just to be able to whine.
Talistran
Welcome to the boards [:D] and nice way to start although lurking since the 22nd [:D]
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Count Dooku
Commander
4637 Posts
New York
| | 03/09/2006 11:55 AM |
| Its just taking people by surprise.
If you have 2 cases and get the same rare in each case...Thats the way it goes. NO ONE is complaning about that. If they are I would be annoyed to.
What people are bringing up on multiple threads is that you can get 2 of the same rare in the SAME case. I havent seen this happen since Archfiends.
For the past 5 sets I have not seen a dupe in the same case. So it just kinda came as a shock to see it happen. | |
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taliesin
Underboss
1113 Posts
| | 03/09/2006 12:03 PM |
| Dupe rares never wen't away, though having 24 rares in the set seemed to minimize it. I pulled dupe Beholders out of a case of Deathknell, and dupe Hezrous out of Angelfire. Those I don't mind, personally, although I understand the pain of those who pull dupe Phoelarchs.
Now, triples in a case would be worrisome. But I haven't heard any complaints about that yet. So I'm not worried. | |
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glumag
Warlord
5968 Posts
| | 03/09/2006 12:07 PM |
| Also let's note that if they used to guarantee one large uncommon per booster and now a commander per booster, then the distribution is not so random after all, or is it just by probabilities?
There has to be a method of packaging the minis into a booster, I refuse to believe that they have one big machine labeled RARES where you have them all in one big massive pile and as the booster passes under it just drops one in there. | |
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Username
Warlord
5690 Posts
| | 03/09/2006 12:11 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Talistran
of people complaining about duplicate rares in a case?!
I know I sure do. What is it that you guys expect? To buy "two cases" or "three cases" and have one of each rare before they dare put a random duplicate?
Seriously, it is ridiculous the amount of complaints I hear about it.
For those who aren't aware of it, Wizards has chosen to distribute these miniatures by random, with a rare, a few uncommons and several commons per booster. RANDOM.
If it was up to me, I would have them randomize it COMPLETELY so that you could EASILY end up with 3 or 4 duplicates in a case... and stop wasting time working on getting that "perfect" non-random distribution of random rares.
*shakes head in dismay*
I am sure I'll get flamed by some, but dang it if some people aren't whining just to be able to whine.
Talistran
Ah, quit your whining, ya lil baby!
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Username - he deals in minis
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zoroaster100
Sergeant
873 Posts
| | 03/09/2006 12:15 PM |
| | I got three phoelarches from two cases in a prior set, so there must have been duplicate rares then, though maybe less common. | |
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PatEllis15
Commander
4463 Posts
| | 03/09/2006 12:19 PM |
| I'm pretty darned tired of it...
County Dooku wrote:
quote:
NO ONE is complaning about that.
No? Go take anotehr read at the Customer Service E-mail that "not another drizzt clone" sent to WotC.
This is the first time since Aberrations that we've had an "issue" with it. I'm not sure why people odn't remember the Ab problems. I know that in all 4 cases that I bought and saw opened each one had at least one set of duplicates inside.
This is tied to the 23 total rares issue....
I fully expect that we will be back on form for WotDQ, though the addition of huges into the seeding assuredly opens the doors for issues as well.
Pat E | |
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yack
Commander
3270 Posts
Gatineau Canada
| | 03/09/2006 12:25 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Count Dooku
Its just taking people by surprise.
If you have 2 cases and get the same rare in each case...Thats the way it goes. NO ONE is complaning about that. If they are I would be annoyed to.
What people are bringing up on multiple threads is that you can get 2 of the same rare in the SAME case. I havent seen this happen since Archfiends.
For the past 5 sets I have not seen a dupe in the same case. So it just kinda came as a shock to see it happen.
thats right Count its when its in the same case. I started buying cases at GOL and never seen it before till WD. | |
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Gnolaum
Sergeant
854 Posts
| | 03/09/2006 12:56 PM |
| Just pretty much back to the case where people would complain about how it was folded if WoTC stuffed their boosters full of money.
Seriously WoTC has done us a great service with attempting to not have duplicate rares in a case. It still happens, but when it does it is almost always only 1 duplicate in a case.
The reason why we are seeing this more in War Drums is because the set as 23 rares (a prime number) as opposed to 24. It is alot easier to split up 24 rares between 2 cases, than it is to split up 276 (12 of each) rares between 23 cases.
Not only more difficult, it may be impossible. I don't feel like putting in the effort to prove it, but I'll start another thread about it, and see if anyone fails their will save against their obsessive comulsive disorder.
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AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 03/09/2006 1:00 PM |
| | I pulled dupe Minas out of a case of Angelfire, thats the suck. | |
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glumag
Warlord
5968 Posts
| | 03/09/2006 1:17 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by AesophDarkfable
I pulled dupe Minas out of a case of Angelfire, thats the suck.
Amazes me how people used to crave and cry for her while she was a promo. Glad I waited and glader I pulled only one [:D] | |
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Lab Monkey
Commander
4136 Posts
| | 03/09/2006 1:30 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by glumag
quote:
Originally posted by AesophDarkfable
I pulled dupe Minas out of a case of Angelfire, thats the suck.
Amazes me how people used to crave and cry for her while she was a promo. Glad I waited and glader I pulled only one [:D]
Me too. I didn't save any of the ~35 Mina Promos I landed because well, Mina's not that great (even for a hardcore DL fan). I was happy to wait until she came as part of a regular set.
______________________________________________________________
As to the topic at hand, lets not fight amongst ourselves here. IMO there are legitimate concerns about the overall quality of War Drums. I suggest that we focus on voicing our opinions about this set (and not about eachother) in the hopes that Shoe and other WotC designers/developers will see our concerns, understand where we are coming from, and respond by improving quality control in future sets.
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 03/09/2006 1:35 PM |
| Again, for the record, I have always gotten at least one duplicate rare per case. I've never been so luck as to be one of the people here with no duplicates... and I'm glad I'm not. I enjoy getting some trade bait and working with people on trades. I'll be happier once I'm in my house and can focus on the trades more though.
We seem to be slinging the same topic over and over again.
Albert Enstein said: "The definition of insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting different results."
Let's vary it up a bit. | |
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robby
Sergeant
918 Posts
| | 03/09/2006 2:12 PM |
|
People must have forgotten the old posts by Rob where he explicitly said they were doing all they could to eliminate dupe rares, but that they were still possible, if out of the ordinary. And that was with 24 rares, an easier number to manage with their packing system.
I worry a lot more about the quality issues of WD than the dupe rare issues.
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True_Blue
Underboss
2386 Posts
| | 03/09/2006 2:18 PM |
| Personally I'd rather have dupe rares more possible than have that extra rare. I really liked the distrobution and was very happy with the number of minis I got from my cases.
I can deal with getting two of something, since I can just trade on here. Having more of Uncommons and Commons, its a lot harder to trade.
So I'm all for keeping this distro, but I know it wont happen heh | |
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Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 03/09/2006 11:29 PM |
| The duplicate Rares issue is one of quality for me. Not quality of the mini (obviously) but the quality of the product as a whole.
Many of us switched to buying cases to help alleviate the crazy packaging of the first three sets! I remember getting 3 Medusas and 2 D-Beasts in a case. A THIRD of my Rares were consumed by the same pieces!! Sure, the D-Beast is worth something now, but then I just wanted to get another Rare (of the MANY that I was missing) I hadn't previously pulled!
And the resurgance is a setback for us. The odd duplicate Rare has always popped up from time to time, but those were rarities (so to speak)--and now it seems to be the norm.
If triplicate rares wouldn't bother you, imagine pulling three Dromites, Champions of Yondolla, Dire Lion, War Chanter, Skullsplitter or Vadania.
Is this a world crisis-like issue? Of course not. But we've gotten used to a certain way of things being done, and we don't always react well to change (especially when it's percieved as a setback). | |
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Ragnarok
Sneak
91 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 9:40 AM |
| YES
simply buy the product or not
then shut your pie hole | |
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Thailfi
Sergeant
956 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 9:52 AM |
| | After opening one Harbinger starter and one booster case I had four umber hulks, so duplicates are not necessarily a bad thing. I think most people are complaining about rotten luck rather than getting a duplicate. | |
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alepulp
Underboss
1538 Posts
Manchester, England
| | 03/10/2006 10:03 AM |
| | I don't mind so much - part of the fun is trading. | |
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 10:04 AM |
| Well if luck is the question then this should be a dead topic. Every now and then people have bad luck. Anyone complainning about the dup Beholder they pulled from a case, or maybe the dup ZWD? No, they are complainning over the dup Arcane Ballista.
My response, find someone looking for it and make a trade... that is one of the reasons the site is here. | |
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WakeXX
Warlord
10152 Posts
Edinboro PA
| | 03/10/2006 10:20 AM |
| | Stop whining![:p]Back in the days of yore when Archfiends was new and dinosaurs roamed the earth my buddy pulled no less than 4 Large Monstrous Spiders out of one case! | | | |
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 10:29 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by WakeXX
Stop whining![:p]Back in the days of yore when Archfiends was new and dinosaurs roamed the earth my buddy pulled no less than 4 Large Monstrous Spiders out of one case!
And to an RPGer, that is one hell of a find. What would be the point of pulling 4 uniques to an RPGer, but pulling for large monsterous spiders would be great. It is all a matter of perspective. | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11768 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 03/10/2006 3:38 PM |
| | For me, one dupe per case is fine. Two is acceptable, but three would be a bit much. | |
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Dwilgar
Warrior
215 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 3:56 PM |
| I did a quick analysis based on some supposition of how rares are sorted into packages, and my guess is the change from 24 to 23 rares is almost entirely responsible for the large instance of duplicate rares being found in sealed cases. Assuming the sorting method works something like this:
- Randomize the 23 rares into a queue.
- Randomize the next batch of 23 rares and add to the queue.
- Repeat.
- Take 12 rares from top of queue and fill 12 boxes of 1 case.
- Take next 12 rares from queue and fill next case.
- Repeat.
This results in Case 1 having rares 1-12, Case 2 having 13-23 and 1 random rare from a different batch, etc... Those cases where rares come from two batches are the ones where you can have duplicate rares. Doing a statistical analysis would give this breakdown on the probability of duplicate rares:
No duplicates: 64.2% of cases
One duplicate: 21.1% of cases
Two duplicates: 11.5% of cases
3 duplicates: 2.9% of cases
more the 3 dup: ~0.3% of cases
I realize this is supposition, but it hopefully gives a reasonable explation of the increase in observed in-case rare duplicates.
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Dwilgar
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Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 4:35 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Thailfi
After opening one Harbinger starter and one booster case I had four umber hulks, so duplicates are not necessarily a bad thing. I think most people are complaining about rotten luck rather than getting a duplicate.
Well, speaking as someone who still has 4 D-Beasts, 3 Umber Hulks and 3 Trolls: I was hating life as I attempted to collect the set.
It took me forever to get a bleedin' Centaur, and I never managed to pull a Vadania or a Hound Archon, and I'm not sure that I ever managed more than 1 Sun Soul Initiate or Gnoll.
Double Rares suck for the case-buyer. It may work out in the end (i.e. if you get the highly desired ones), but at that time, it stinks. And if you pull the crappy rares that few people want, hardly anyone wants to spend the postage to trade it. If you do find someone, they probably aren't one of the few R-for-a-R traders, and so you have to give up even more of your collection to gain that highly sought after piece.
Double Rares in a case are bad for the collector and the community--Unless WotC can somehow guarantee that ALL Rares will be highly sought after. | |
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Ackrus
Warrior
282 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 8:50 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Talistran
of people complaining about duplicate rares in a case?!
I know I sure do. What is it that you guys expect? To buy "two cases" or "three cases" and have one of each rare before they dare put a random duplicate?
Seriously, it is ridiculous the amount of complaints I hear about it.
For those who aren't aware of it, Wizards has chosen to distribute these miniatures by random, with a rare, a few uncommons and several commons per booster. RANDOM.
If it was up to me, I would have them randomize it COMPLETELY so that you could EASILY end up with 3 or 4 duplicates in a case... and stop wasting time working on getting that "perfect" non-random distribution of random rares.
*shakes head in dismay*
I am sure I'll get flamed by some, but dang it if some people aren't whining just to be able to whine.
Talistran
I totally agree. If you are going to order more than one case you are going to get duplicate rares. It just that simple. | |
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True_Blue
Underboss
2386 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 9:12 PM |
| I agree also. Anyone should know that if you buy multiple cases that you will probably get doubles of stuff. That happens. I bought 3 cases,a nd got 3 of some of the stuff. It happens, nothing you can do about it.
Now I'm not too happy about double rares in the same case, but honestly I'll take it if it means a better distrobution, which I thought Wa Drums was compared to the sets before it. I like 23/21/16. | |
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Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 9:20 PM |
| | Double rares are fine in a case! As long as that rare is a dragon! [)] | |
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