KAGE
Sneak
150 Posts
    
 | | 03/10/2006 1:00 PM |
| i've read every side of the missing paint steps, so I figured I might as well show some pics.
I read someone from WotC say that the Wemic was a rare because it had more paint steps then the Fiendish Girallon. If that is the case then this leads me to believe that there is no way rares should have missing paint steps. the frost dwarf I can live with, but the other rares no way.
I only did 5 of them, 4 of them rares. I could have probably done every figure in the set. While there as been shoddy paint jobs in other set, which is fine. WotC makes this product fairly cheap, and you can't expect perfect paint jobs. But nothing like the missing steps in this set.
here is the frost dwarf, probably the most obvious
here is the gulgar, thought it had crystals coming out of it?
Chimera, fantastic fantastic skulp.....no paint, even on the dragons horns.
the dragon, should have been a common if they decide on rares by its paint job
where is the red sheild, this would have looked fantastic
Can you guess which one is the Rare and which one should be the rare?
this one isn't to bad but missing some gold and red
everything is opposite, silver where brown should be and vice versa
atleast his teeth are painted
Again, this probably should be a complaining thread, just to show, but I think when you spend money on a product it should look atleast close to the preview.
I have multiples of all the figs in the set and have seen others, and not one of them looks like its picture in the poster. | |
10000 days in the fire is long enough.
You're going home...
KAGE | |
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Username
Warlord
5690 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 1:09 PM |
| | The frost dwarf is unpleasant, but the dragon is a real let down. The copper dragon from AF looks fantastic with the patina! | |
Originally posted by Schooly_D
Username - he deals in minis
Champion of Lhesh Haruuc Shaarat'kor | |
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Lab Monkey
Commander
4136 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 1:09 PM |
| Thank you for posting this! The pictures really put things in perspective.
My thoughts:
No comment necessary on the Frost Dwarf.
Wow that Gulgar looks terrible! I haven't seen one yet, but that's really disappointing.
Your picture of the Chimera really sums up the problems with that figure well.
The Bronze is still a nice figure, but it the difference between it and the paint master is remarkable. Even the sculpt (angle of the neck) is different from the paint master in every one I've seen.
I'm fine with the Rakshasa missing it's shield color. IMO that falls within the variation we've seen in previous sets. I currently have two Zakya Rakshasas. One looks like the figure you posted and the other is a total mess (green eye smears across the face, orange paint all over the armor, etc.).
We should get pictures of some of the other problem figures up as well (Lion of Talsid, Shuluth, etc....).
Thanks again,
LM | |
Have: Cat; Want: Storm Giant
Champion of Anything Dragonlance
Before trading, please check the Disputed Trades Thread | |
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alepulp
Underboss
1538 Posts
Manchester, England
| | 03/10/2006 1:17 PM |
| | This is quite disconcerting - hmmm. Thanks for highlighting (no pun intended). | |
One of these days WoTC will update their tournament page when I'm in the top 5... they never seem to do when I'm in that bracket :(
My Collection My DDM Website And My Trade Refs Be a part of the UK DDM Forum
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Sean-Khan
Commander
2723 Posts
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KAGE
Sneak
150 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 1:45 PM |
| | I've just had a look at the arcane ballista, and its all outa wack. i'll tray to post a picture of it soon. | |
10000 days in the fire is long enough.
You're going home...
KAGE | |
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maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 1:46 PM |
| WOW I didn't really have any problem with the paints except the frost dwarf but seeing them side by side its glaringly obvious. It really does look like the skipped entire paint steps.
I knew about the misscolored head on the chimera and it didn't bother me but I didn't realize all the highlight colors were missing.
The rakshasa's sheild doesn't look mispainted it looks like they didn't paint it at all.
The LBD I noticed the missing wing color but until I saw the side by side I hadn't noticed the missing neck and belly colors.
The gular just looks like they skipped the last step, painting the crystal outcropping.
I have been sort of defending the paint jobs in various threads (except that fursuggina' frost dwarf) but now I have to rethink my position after seeing these side by sides.
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Sir Bozak The Damned
Commander
2854 Posts
Québec
| | 03/10/2006 1:48 PM |
| | I was also content with most of the minis I currently have, but seeing them like that, side-by-side is quite disconcerting. This has been said many times, but I just do not understand why they let all these so dark. Do we need to let them out to get some sun so their true colors emerge or is this a horrible case of misrepresentation ? The only positive I can see is that they did not raise the price, which would have made me lose all interest in new miniatures... [:0] | |
Please donate BLOOD at http://www.monstersgame.co.uk/ac=vid&vid=11018554
Champion Of Kaz the Minotaur Knight of ALL Draconians. Squire Of ALL Constructs
The number ONE fanatic Of Dread Guards ! I own 66 !!! And the GMR1 !!!
119 completed trades so far...NB called shot: Medusa | |
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Tactician
Sergeant
888 Posts
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Richard II
Commander
3663 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 2:01 PM |
| | I too didn't see much wrong with my minis when I looked at them, but seeing them side by side like that is quite startling. | |
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Red Ranger
Sergeant
708 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 2:02 PM |
| I have not chimed in on one of the complain about the paint threads yet, but seeing these side by side is very telling. I really hope that it is just a new batch of painting recruits that they're getting trained and skilled for WOTDQ, or I might just start going fully to Reaper for RPG and ebay for skirmish minis.
I hadn't seen a production Chimera yet, that's horrendous. Supposedly the 'flagship' piece and it has less paint steps than some commons from this and previous steps. I'm disappointed I'm going to have to spend so much time repainting this set. Wow, I just scrolled down and looked at the Chimera again. They should all be returned as defective, they look nothing like the paint master. | |
Champion of the Yeti
(large uncommon please!)
Assistant to the Regional Manager | |
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Count Dooku
Commander
4637 Posts
New York
| | 03/10/2006 2:08 PM |
| Your pic of the Frost Dwarf was to kind.
The average frost dwarf is colored "Outside the Lines". There shoul dbe blue paint comming off his hands onto his cape and blue paint spilling off his beard onto his shirt.
Am I right or am I right? :) | |
Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
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maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 2:12 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Count Dooku
You pic of the Frost Dwarf was to kind.
The average frost dwarf is colored "Outside the Lines". There shoul dbe blue paint comming off his hands onto his cape and blue paint spilling off his beard onto his shirt.
Am I right or am I right? :)
YOU ARE RIGHT.... at least on mine (only 3 but all 3). | | | |
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PaSquall
Underboss
1399 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 2:15 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Count Dooku
Your pic of the Frost Dwarf was to kind.
The average frost dwarf is colored "Outside the Lines". There shoul dbe blue paint comming off his hands onto his cape and blue paint spilling off his beard onto his shirt.
Am I right or am I right? :)
Alas, you are right... | |
Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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Archer_Drake
Skirmisher
15 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 2:17 PM |
| | My Warpriest of Moradin has black legs, no paint for the greves. Not to mention the scant amount of flesh color on his head. I will try to post pics tonight. | |
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Jenbar
Skirmisher
27 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 2:23 PM |
| I'm knew to DDM but I think the reason for all the darker washes is its very easy for anyone without any kind of painting skills to do. Just apply the ink everywhere without regard. Washing a mini is one of the basic principles of painting. The people painthing these things were not hired for the artistic ability they possess.
To get the Frost dwarf to look anything like the master requires 3 more colors and 4 different dry brushes applications. A light blue/almost white for the beard, a Chain/gun metal color to highlight the armor, a light brown for the fur/boots and a light grey for the cloak. Drybrushing takes time to wipe the brush down so maybe thats why this guy has had so little done?
The gulgar would require more finess because it has more skin, skin is difficult to look good drybrushed, so out comes the ink again.
The Chimera is a prime candidate for dry brushing, I dont know why it wasn't. I just started to collect DDM but I have a Snig who's wolf was dry brushed from the box, why can't the chimera be dry brushed? both are rares right? A light brown drybrush would look way better than that dark ink, and go along way to making the mini acceptable to alot of people.
The dragon isnt even the same, different pose. But regardless painting white over a metalic takes a few coats to completley get rid of the underlaying color. So I guess they ommited this step because of the time. The green could be done in 30 seconds, not sure why this was left out, as green lays on the metalic just fine and would still look ok if you could see through some of the green.
The last guy could be improved easily without much fuss. An orange ink over the fur and ink the armor, the metalic doesnt look shaded in the pic. The Shield would be very hard to replicate, it would have to be all silver or all red I suspect. Painting the red and keeping the metal color as shown in the master pic would take 15-20 mins per shield.
Like I said im knew toDDM but I have been paiting minitures for approx 12 years. As soon as I saw the paint job quality I decided to repaint all my mini's. I think WOTC decide what steps and colors to use based the biggest bang for your buck in 60 seconds worth of painting (maybe 2 minutes for some rares). But I could certainly paint that dragon in under 2 minutes total, sure it has to dry but when you have 20 to paint the first is done by the time you finish the first coast on the last).
So the Dwarf ends up looking like crap because to add anything else from the master would double or more on the painting time. Painting the white for the dragon takes skill and time not to mess it up. Etc Etc.
My 2 cents
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Dordledum
Commander
3398 Posts
Netherlands
| | 03/10/2006 2:26 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Archer_Drake
My Warpriest of Moradin has black legs, no paint for the greves. Not to mention the scant amount of flesh color on his head. I will try to post pics tonight.
got a few of him and love the mini, do admit he has got some black smooches over his face, but I don't really think it to be an issue. He is a cleric of the soulforger, well he looks like has just been working the forge, or in the mines. no strange things for a dwarf..
I don't think that the Warpriest of Moradin is a major quality issue within this set, but it could be that yours are worse than mine. looking forward to the pics you promised.
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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PaSquall
Underboss
1399 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 2:28 PM |
| I noticed something : my chimera is a bit different of yours. It has white patches on its legs and neck as if it had been hastily painted...
My take on all this is that WotC tried to cut on their costs. WD is a starter set and they had to produce more minis than usual. I suppose they didn't want to hire new painters (even with very small chinese wages...) so the painters had to work faster than usual, that lead to bad paintjobs (frost dwarf) and some paint steps completely discarded (see rakshasa's shield).
If I'm right, things might go back to normal for WotDQ. Hopefully.
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Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3398 Posts
Netherlands
| | 03/10/2006 2:31 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by PaSquall
If I'm right, things might go back to normal for WotDQ. Hopelessly.
hopelessly??? | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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MackeyJ
Underboss
1414 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 2:33 PM |
| Frost Dwarf looks completely lifeless (what's with the lolly pop he's holding)
Chimera is a huge disapointment for me. I might just as well have purchased an unpainted mini.
Dragon, Rakshasa and Gulgar though they look very little like their paint masters I can still deal with the way they look now. I'm not saying they're good or even acceptable just that I'll be able to deal with them. | |
John
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 2:35 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by PaSquall
I noticed something : my chimera is a bit different of yours. It has white patches on its legs and neck as if it had been hastily painted...
My take on all this is that WotC tried to cut on their costs. WD is a starter set and they had to produce more minis than usual. I suppose they didn't want to hire new painters (even with very small chinese wages...) so the painters had to work faster than usual, that lead to bad paintjobs (frost dwarf) and some paint steps completely discarded (see rakshasa's shield).
If I'm right, things might go back to normal for WotDQ. Hopelessly.
My chimeras goat and lion are slighty different tones of brown, and it does have white splotches here or there were they attempted to dry brush. There are some vastly different, and I have some gripes with a few of them, but overall I am still in the not really complaining camp. I dont think I ever heard the wemic was rare vs the girallon because of paintsteps, actually we thought the opposite we figured the wemic had very few so it might be an uncommon. | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 2:37 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MackeyJ
Frost Dwarf looks completely lifeless (what's with the lolly pop he's holding)
Chimera is a huge disapointment for me. I might just as well have purchased an unpainted mini.
Dragon, Rakshasa and Gulgar though they look very little like their paint masters I can still deal with the way they look now. I'm not saying they're good or even acceptable just that I'll be able to deal with them.
I think the Raksasha still looks fabulous. There are a few things Id like (the straps holding his stuff on being a differnt color) but I might do those myself if I get around to it.
I only have one complaint on the frost dwarf and thats the axe, Sure its bland and would be cooler as brown, but its a frsot dwarf. The axe on the other hand, yueah thats painful. | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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Ridureyu
Underboss
1622 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 2:42 PM |
| Darnit, the Gulgar has painted crystals!
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y185/Ridureyu/gulgar.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y185/Ridureyu/gulgarknee.jpg
Granted, they're not neon, but they are painted differently than the body.
You should post pics of the Dragon Totem hero, though - his paint differences are incredibly obvious. | |
Owner of The Original Rust Monsters!
DDM: Harbinger: 76/80 Dragoneye: 60/60 Archfiends: 56/60 GoL: 72/72 Aberrations: 60/60 Deathknell: 60/60 Angelfire: 60/60 Underdark: 60/60 War Drums: 60/60 War of the Dragon Queen: 60/60 Blood War: 60/60, Unhallowed: 60/60 Night Below: 60/60 Desert of Desolation: 60/60 Dungeons of Dread: 60/60 Against the Giants: 60/60
Dreamblade: All | |
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Anthraxus
Warrior
212 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 2:52 PM |
| | Ugh. Not that the finished mini has to be exactly the same as the master, but it should be a good representation. | |
Yeah, I really need to work on my H/W list one of these days...
Completed trades: 17 ; Pending: 2
Champion of Yugoloths | |
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forkedmoon
Underboss
1305 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 2:53 PM |
| My guess.
"We need everything package NOW in order to make the release deadlines."
"But boss figures are not ready"
" Wizards said NOW"
Later at Wizards
"WTF? - Did you see these things they're sending us?"
"Too late now we've already started distributing these and the new set is in production."
"Act casual maybe they won't notice."
Please don't interpret this as Wizards bashing. These things happen and choices have to be made on how to rectify them. With all the talk about the new rules, new maps, etc., It would have been near impossible to pull these back if my scenario is even close. And even if they could have pulled them back it would have probably caused Wardrums to be pushed back a couple of sets. Can't do that with a starter that the next few sets are based off.
It would be nice if Wizards could tell us how to finish off our figures to get them where they belong but that woudl require admitting a major faux pas - not likely in this day and age. For those who do understand how to do these things please share with us less knowledgable and talented.
In the end I love the new sculpts and see much promise in the set. The pictures though make me realize what could have been. | |
Champion of Cyclops
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Ridureyu
Underboss
1622 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 2:56 PM |
| Check the e-mail to WOTC thead - they did respond, and stated that this was worse than they intended, and plan to keep it from happening again.
I'm just reacting to the people on the WOTC thread stating that they are done buying DDM because of this one error. Mind you, the forum keeps timing out before I can post a response. | |
Owner of The Original Rust Monsters!
DDM: Harbinger: 76/80 Dragoneye: 60/60 Archfiends: 56/60 GoL: 72/72 Aberrations: 60/60 Deathknell: 60/60 Angelfire: 60/60 Underdark: 60/60 War Drums: 60/60 War of the Dragon Queen: 60/60 Blood War: 60/60, Unhallowed: 60/60 Night Below: 60/60 Desert of Desolation: 60/60 Dungeons of Dread: 60/60 Against the Giants: 60/60
Dreamblade: All | |
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KAGE
Sneak
150 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 3:12 PM |
| | added more pics. | |
10000 days in the fire is long enough.
You're going home...
KAGE | |
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forkedmoon
Underboss
1305 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 3:16 PM |
| Thanks for telling me about Wizards response on their boards. I don't go there - too negative.
If ever a set cried out for a second run.... | |
Champion of Cyclops
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NotAnotherDrizztClone
Warrior
265 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 3:41 PM |
| I guess a picture DOES speak louder than a thousand words... good job! This was exactly the type of side-by-side comparison we needed.
NADC | |
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KAGE
Sneak
150 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 3:50 PM |
| in the WotC official response it says they could do anything to just ask, and if he wanted his warduke replaced they would do that too, are they going to replace all of our wardukes....and all of the figures i've shown here? I have 2 and 3 of everything myself. are they willing to replace it all with properly painted figs.
i've come to accept half A$$ed paint jobs, I mean they do sell them to us for pretty cheap. They sculpts were getting better and better, and the paint jobs have been getting better and better.... but these are missing entire paint schemes, they arn't painted half a$$ed, they arn't painted at all.
I recently calculated what my collection is worth, based on scrye and zenako price lists
my set is worth any where from $9,000 to $13,000. maybe its time to get out?
anyone want a collection of almost 2 of every single rare, and repaint? 2590 minis in all
2 of every map, tile....I pretty much have 2 of everything ever released for minis'.
i'll let it go for $10,000....it includes 3 large silver dragons!
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10000 days in the fire is long enough.
You're going home...
KAGE | |
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PaSquall
Underboss
1399 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 3:54 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Dordledum
quote:
Originally posted by PaSquall
If I'm right, things might go back to normal for WotDQ. Hopelessly.
hopelessly???
OOOPS - edited [:I] | |
Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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robby
Sergeant
918 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 3:57 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ridureyu
Check the e-mail to WOTC thead - they did respond, and stated that this was worse than they intended, and plan to keep it from happening again.
I'm just reacting to the people on the WOTC thread stating that they are done buying DDM because of this one error. Mind you, the forum keeps timing out before I can post a response.
Strange, I didn't read anywhere that they said it was worse than they intended. In fact, I read where they said the paint jobs were exactly as they had intended.
Also, I didn't read where anyone said they were done buying DDM because of this, uh, "error". I did read (and post) that I wouldn't buy the next set until I'd actually seen it, however.
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Ridureyu
Underboss
1622 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 4:07 PM |
| Well, it looks like Kage is selling off his whole set because of this. That's an overreaction.
Also, it helps if you know how to read between the lines with PR statements. They just gave the equivalent of a big apology. | |
Owner of The Original Rust Monsters!
DDM: Harbinger: 76/80 Dragoneye: 60/60 Archfiends: 56/60 GoL: 72/72 Aberrations: 60/60 Deathknell: 60/60 Angelfire: 60/60 Underdark: 60/60 War Drums: 60/60 War of the Dragon Queen: 60/60 Blood War: 60/60, Unhallowed: 60/60 Night Below: 60/60 Desert of Desolation: 60/60 Dungeons of Dread: 60/60 Against the Giants: 60/60
Dreamblade: All | |
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robby
Sergeant
918 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 4:15 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ridureyu
Well, it looks like Kage is selling off his whole set because of this. That's an overreaction.
I agree.
quote:
Originally posted by Ridureyu
Also, it helps if you know how to read between the lines with PR statements. They just gave the equivalent of a big apology.
I disagree. I know how to read behind the lines with these; heck, I write them enough. This wasn't an apology. It was a deflection.
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KAGE
Sneak
150 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 4:18 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ridureyu
Well, it looks like Kage is selling off his whole set because of this. That's an overreaction.
Also, it helps if you know how to read between the lines with PR statements. They just gave the equivalent of a big apology.
no probably not. I've have been asking myself when is it time to get out, for the last couple of months actually. this just might have convinced me of what I was already trying to find a reason to do.
but I am looking forward to the WotDQ so much, that I doubt I will do anything.
besides who has $10,000 to spend on DDM in one shot anyway.
if someone offered me that money for my set I probably would take it whether this set was bad or not. | |
10000 days in the fire is long enough.
You're going home...
KAGE | |
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Ridureyu
Underboss
1622 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 4:18 PM |
| I write them, too, although I mostly work in quality assurance.
Generally, we're told to always be dodgier than this letter - a statement like this is basically saying "there was a mistake, we'll fix it next time." | |
Owner of The Original Rust Monsters!
DDM: Harbinger: 76/80 Dragoneye: 60/60 Archfiends: 56/60 GoL: 72/72 Aberrations: 60/60 Deathknell: 60/60 Angelfire: 60/60 Underdark: 60/60 War Drums: 60/60 War of the Dragon Queen: 60/60 Blood War: 60/60, Unhallowed: 60/60 Night Below: 60/60 Desert of Desolation: 60/60 Dungeons of Dread: 60/60 Against the Giants: 60/60
Dreamblade: All | |
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robby
Sergeant
918 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 4:20 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ridureyu
I write them, too, although I mostly work in quality assurance.
Generally, we're told to always be dodgier than this letter - a statement like this is basically saying "there was a mistake, we'll fix it next time."
Guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. Definitely one thing I like about this board - that is allowed (and even encouraged) here. :)
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Ridureyu
Underboss
1622 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 4:24 PM |
| Yeah, I agree. We can disagree without the thread degenerating into massive arguments, and people being put on ignore lists[:D]
By the way, has anyone figured out why the Blood Ghost Berserker has such a good paint job? | |
Owner of The Original Rust Monsters!
DDM: Harbinger: 76/80 Dragoneye: 60/60 Archfiends: 56/60 GoL: 72/72 Aberrations: 60/60 Deathknell: 60/60 Angelfire: 60/60 Underdark: 60/60 War Drums: 60/60 War of the Dragon Queen: 60/60 Blood War: 60/60, Unhallowed: 60/60 Night Below: 60/60 Desert of Desolation: 60/60 Dungeons of Dread: 60/60 Against the Giants: 60/60
Dreamblade: All | |
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Lab Monkey
Commander
4136 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 4:26 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ridureyu
By the way, has anyone figured out why the Blood Ghost Berserker has such a good paint job?
No, but these guys are getting hard to find. It's one cool looking mini. | |
Have: Cat; Want: Storm Giant
Champion of Anything Dragonlance
Before trading, please check the Disputed Trades Thread | |
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robby
Sergeant
918 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 4:30 PM |
|
Well, that sparks a question I was thinking about - I wonder in what order these are painted?
Most of the commons are decent, and some are very nice. They are about par or better with previous sets. Some of the uncommons (BGB is a good example) are very nice, most are okay ... and then a few are really bad (Lion, Frost Dwarf, etc). Most of the rares are substandard (especially compared to masters).
So, perhaps they got halfway through the set, and realized they were over budget or short on time, and decided to cut back a little? Or perhaps (does a little math) when the company's proforma was looking a little sickly and they were axing people, they also cut the budgets on some ongoing projects? (I think more likely the former than latter, but both are possible). The result of an event like either would be that the minis that weren't done yet got the short end of the stick, and came out ... well, you've seen them.
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