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Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2353 Posts
    
Australia
 | | 05/03/2006 12:27 AM |
| *wham* *wham* *wham* *wham*
That's the sound of me hitting my head against a virtual wall.
One of the most irritating things about recent events is that Wizards seemed to have developed a really great method of previewing the figures for D&D Miniatures. If this set had gone to plan, we would have had known 80% of the figures in the set by the time it was released. (That's around 48 of 60).
Instead, due to the actions of a few individuals, we've got people at Wizards extremely worried about their jobs, and the entire preview plan is in turmoil.
For previous sets, I've been extremely happy to see the few leaks that come out beforehand. However, the scale of it this time - and with still so long to go before the set is released - has killed any joy I felt over learning details in advance.
Instead of hunting down news to put on my page, I've been dreading the next leak.
For various reasons, I can't condone the posting of spoiler information on maxminis for this set. We know from recent experience that Wizards can and will deal with problem sites, and I really don't want maxminis to be in that category.
I also want maxminis to remain a site where Ian Richards, Stephen Schubert, Linae Foster and anyone else from Wizards can post and feel welcome. If maxminis becomes known by Wizards as a site that has these leaks happen regularly, then we could well lose the company of those good people. That is something I really want to avoid.
I'm leaving this thread open so you can discuss the ramifications of what's happened.
Yours sincerely,
Merric Blackman
Maxminis.com Forum Administrator
EDIT:
If you check the dozens (hundreds) of posts that follows, you'll find my stance has changed on leaks.
* Leaks are fine, but scale and timing does come into it. 16+ pictures two or three months out is problematic. In those cases, please contact a moderator first.
* Smaller leaks, go ahead and have fun. Still, 20 leaks from 20 different people on the same day will probably be counted as very suspicious by Wizards' lawyers.
* At present, I'd prefer the original 16 leaked pictures to be kept private, but I'm soliciting input on changes. | |
Merric Blackman
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| 
Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5091 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 05/03/2006 12:36 AM |
| It might not be popular, but you certainly have my support. Spoilers just tend to spoil (but I've said that before). It's been my experience that spoilers just create huge headaches for the folks from WotC. I'm not a big fan of headaches and I think that maxminis has been a place where headaches have been minimal. Let's keep it that way.
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Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
|
realmaster
Underboss
2010 Posts
Home of the 2002 Winter Olympics
| | 05/03/2006 12:41 AM |
| | Why is it that when ever these leaks keep resurfacing on the maxminis boards I am not around to see?[:(!][)] | |
Thanks, realmaster. Let's split up!!!!!
RIP Gary Gygax 1938-2008
Unhallowed vindicated champion: van richten
Successful trades:72
Trades in progress:0
Have issues with:1 burning_kazuki
Bad trades:0 | |
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Fearfrost
Sergeant
518 Posts
| | 05/03/2006 12:58 AM |
| | I personally prefer the weekly previews and not the leaked pictures. For me it leaves the excitement of the new set intact. When toomuch is revealed too early it kinda kills the fun for me. If it wern't for the fact I love sealed tourny's I could even do with out the spoilers prior to release. But again that's just my personal take. | |
Asystole is a stable heart rhythm | |
| Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11587 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 05/03/2006 1:03 AM |
| | I support Merric on this one. I find the scheduled previews to be exciting, and that's more than enough for me. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Darthrau
Underboss
2233 Posts
| | 05/03/2006 1:06 AM |
| | I say ban them for a week if they can't listen. I'm probably getting out of DDM as I'm working on selling my Harbinger and Dragoneye sets now. But plan to be here for SWM and DBM. I for one have always enjoyed this site and would like to see it stay here. People need to remember Mike Donais challenged us to find it and post it. He's gone now(to DBM) and Shoe is here now. This is Shoe's first set and the first is always the most special, but for Shoe it's probably become a nightmare. And the very people who he felt he could converse with are the ones that caused it. Now ask yourself how you feel about that! | |
Champion of Jarlaxle
Sets:
Star Wars Year one complete,44/60 Champions of the Force,0/60 Bounty Hunters | |
|
DrX
Sergeant
408 Posts
| | 05/03/2006 1:26 AM |
| What constitutes an "allowed" leak and what doesn't?
My understanding is that the War Drums images and stats from Scrye leaked out earlier than the release because someone who worked at the printer got a hold of the magazine early. Yet we all got to see that. Should that have been allowed? How do we know?
Heck, the wholesale posting of Scrye's copyrighted information (not to mention that WotC has copyright on their stats to begin with) was possibly a violation of US law. Violating a non-disclosure agreement is a civil matter, isn't it? Which is a "worse" violation? I understand Maxminis wants to stay on Wizards' good side, so I understand if you choose one way.
It just seems there's a gray area here with regard to leaks that should be addressed. If in the future we're only going to allow WotC-sanctioned previews here, so be it. But that's changing the precedent, isn't it?
Personally, I could care less. Wake me up when we get skirmish stats...
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HW List: http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=DrX
References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12409
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| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2353 Posts
Australia
| | 05/03/2006 1:42 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by DrX
It just seems there's a gray area here with regard to leaks that should be addressed. If in the future we're only going to allow WotC-sanctioned previews here, so be it. But that's changing the precedent, isn't it?
As I said, in previous sets, leaks are something I've looked forward to. I rather hope that for Blood War, this will also be the case.
The scale of the leaks for WotDQ have just been so huge that I've had to change policy for this set. I'm also hoping this will help a few people at Wizards.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
| |
| Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6805 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 05/03/2006 1:44 AM |
| I felt awkward about the most recent leak that resulted in someone being banned for a month. I apologize for responding the way I did--telling him he needed to prove something. I wasn't excited about the leak. It was more like that I didn't believe him because his story sounded fishy. And then he did have a miniature he took pictures of and posted. I then responded to learning what the new miniature was the way I normally do--by sharing my opinion of the miniature.
I think that we are in the painful process of developing new guidelines about what is revealed or not. In previous sets, there seemed to be no limits on what was posted. If someone discovered something, it was posted, and people talked about it. It seems that there is a lot of momentum from that that is continuing.
It's really a sticky thing. The best thing is to get a clear policy regarding what can be posted and discussed here in the way of information about a new set.
Information revealed by WotC employees at GenCon (and similar events) and information revealed on the WotC website seems like the kind of stuff we should post. Anything in official publications--as long as they are not leaked before they have been distributed to the stores?
Clear guidelines and clear consequences need to be developed, I believe, so that the board in general isn't confused about what is happening.
I REALLY have enjoyed having the WotC people (I'm thinking of Shoe, Talafenix, lurkinglidda, guyf, etc.) around and contributing to our site. I think that maxminis has benefitted greatly. I support whatever decisions Merric and the moderators make regarding these issues. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2353 Posts
Australia
| | 05/03/2006 1:44 AM |
| It should also be noted that timing plays a great deal in my attitude to leaks. When we get to know things a few days in advance, it probably doesn't matter quite so much. 8 weeks in advance? That's another matter entirely.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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FeranEldritchKnight
Sergeant
385 Posts
Kansas City, MO USA
| | 05/03/2006 1:46 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Darthrau
I say ban them for a week if they can't listen.
I saw the end of the most recent thread before it vanished, and Merric's giving him a month with a reduced sentence if he talks on the source. Considering the jobs of WotC allies are on the line, I say Merric is right.
But DrX is right too.
Many of us originally came here wanting to hear all the juicy tidbits before the set was released. We have slowly figured out the majority of every set before the set was released. Having said that, we pieced a lot of this together by rumors and box art, not by illegally gained booty. the bottom line is this-- if it's bad for WotC, it's bad for DDMs, and therefore bad for this site. ANY pics we post of un-previewed minis need to go through Merric or another moderator first, and Shoe or LurkingLidda needs to know about (probably from Merric et al) and clear it before we post it. They have been saying this very thing for weeks now, and have it stickied at the top of the page. They have warned us about proper behavior. Merric has every right to exercise extreme prejudice on this. | |
Completed trades: Gausse, Mazra, Pagansexy, Galerians, Lord_Raven, Drakkengi, Temujinn x2, Random Sasquatch, elf_ranger, Azuretide, Hung4treason, Griffrat (face2face), Nasamonkey
Carpe Forum! | |
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DrX
Sergeant
408 Posts
| | 05/03/2006 1:51 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MerricB
The scale of the leaks for WotDQ have just been so huge that I've had to change policy for this set.
So, let's say for the sake of argument, if the first 16-picture leak hadn't happened, would the most recent leak have been allowed?
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HW List: http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=DrX
References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12409
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Massawyrm
Sneak
89 Posts
| | 05/03/2006 1:53 AM |
| Well, Personally, I love seeing spoilers like this well in advance...but for the very same reason WoTC doesn't want me to see them. Because it influences my decision to buy - one way or another.
I've had my preorders in for sets months in advance (way back to Harbinger.) But because of financial woes, I had to put off Wardrums...and as a result I got to see a complete figure list (not to mention the infamous paint job thread) and said "Woah! No F-ing way am I dropping $250 on that!" Thus I've traded for the few minis I wanted with you nice folks.
Seeing WotDQ in advance of the release might help make some important decisions for me - decisions the folks at wotc may not like - but I might certainly be thankful for. But then again Mini's aren't my primary hobby. Film is. And I know I am absolutely religious about spoilers. Hell, I have an infamous story in which Quentin Tarantino offered me a copy of his Kill Bill script in '02...and I turned it down because I knew it would ruin my first time in a theatre experience. So I can certainly understand the sentiments being passed around.
Personally, I think it's just time to require SPOILER headings on threads. Read at your own risk, fanboys. ;) | |
If you have to ask what DA is, then I never whooped your ass with it. | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 05/03/2006 2:03 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by FeranEldritchKnight
quote:
Originally posted by Darthrau
I say ban them for a week if they can't listen.
I saw the end of the most recent thread before it vanished, and Merric's giving him a month with a reduced sentence if he talks on the source. Considering the jobs of WotC allies are on the line, I say Merric is right.
But DrX is right too.
Many of us originally came here wanting to hear all the juicy tidbits before the set was released. We have slowly figured out the majority of every set before the set was released. Having said that, we pieced a lot of this together by rumors and box art, not by illegally gained booty.the bottom line is this-- if it's bad for WotC, it's bad for DDMs, and therefore bad for this site. ANY pics we post of un-previewed minis need to go through Merric or another moderator first, and Shoe or LurkingLidda needs to know about (probably from Merric et al) and clear it before we post it. They have been saying this very thing for weeks now, and have it stickied at the top of the page. They have warned us about proper behavior. Merric has every right to exercise extreme prejudice on this.
My two coppers.
I like some spoliers and stuff before hand. (der) I do see the diffence between a few days and months.
Hopefully we find this balance. | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2353 Posts
Australia
| | 05/03/2006 2:05 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by DrX
quote:
Originally posted by MerricB
The scale of the leaks for WotDQ have just been so huge that I've had to change policy for this set.
So, let's say for the sake of argument, if the first 16-picture leak hadn't happened, would the most recent leak have been allowed?
I would have been with the rest of you going "Cool!" [:)]
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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sam500
Sergeant
419 Posts
Berkeley, CA
| | 05/03/2006 2:08 AM |
| I do NOT like the trend that the moderators have set here.
Maxminis has turned from an "open source" faunt of information and leaks of upcoming sets to a restricted environment. I feel threatened for voicing my opinions now for fear of being banned.
Merric, you yourself have said that you have looked forward to leaks in the past. The only difference this time is the scope of the current leak and the intervening time to the next set. I don't believe these differences justify the shift in management of the site. If you personally feel that leaks have gone to far, many others do not. I don't really know how these sites are run, but it seems one persons opinion should not control a public forum (especially not one independent of WOTC). You've also set a precedent in the past for allowing images to be posted.
Reguarding WOTC employees posting here:
I think it's cool... really cool.... but not essential. I don't think policies should change in an effort to keep them here. It's our forum after all not theirs. There is a WOTC forum for people to post at. I appreicate getting heads up from shoe, lidda, and gang, but don't think the site should be run different than previously (and leaks have happened in the past).
However, (and this is a big however) I do NOT want to see maxminis get into any legal trouble. This seems like the only real problem with picture posts (although this is less of a problem just talking about the leaked minis, which I think should be allowed). I love the site and want to support it. I've been supported by others here with problem trades and find many of the topics fun to post about.
These are just my opinions. I don't mean them to sound disparaging.
Please don't boot me.
Yours,
Sam
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CHAMPION OF ALL TOWNSFOLK
47 COMPLETED TRADES ON MAXMINIS
14 COMPLETED TRADES ON WOTC BOARDS
I USE THE SAME HANDLE ON HORDELINGS, WOTC DDM BOARDS, AND DWARVEN FORGE FORUMS. | |
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DrX
Sergeant
408 Posts
| | 05/03/2006 2:13 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MerricB
quote:
Originally posted by DrX
quote:
Originally posted by MerricB
The scale of the leaks for WotDQ have just been so huge that I've had to change policy for this set.
So, let's say for the sake of argument, if the first 16-picture leak hadn't happened, would the most recent leak have been allowed?
I would have been with the rest of you going "Cool!" [:)]
Cheers!
Then, with all due respect, banning the most recent leaker just doesn't seem right. Sorry to cause stress. I just don't agree. | |
HW List: http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=DrX
References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12409
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Massawyrm
Sneak
89 Posts
| | 05/03/2006 2:15 AM |
| | Wait? Was the most recent leaker banned for posting NEW leaked pics? | |
If you have to ask what DA is, then I never whooped your ass with it. | |
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DrX
Sergeant
408 Posts
| | 05/03/2006 2:17 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Massawyrm
Wait? Was the most recent leaker banned for posting NEW leaked pics?
Yes. (Several pics of one new figure.) | |
HW List: http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=DrX
References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12409
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| Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6805 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 05/03/2006 2:20 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by DrX
quote:
Originally posted by MerricB
quote:
Originally posted by DrX
quote:
Originally posted by MerricB
The scale of the leaks for WotDQ have just been so huge that I've had to change policy for this set.
So, let's say for the sake of argument, if the first 16-picture leak hadn't happened, would the most recent leak have been allowed?
I would have been with the rest of you going "Cool!" [:)]
Cheers!
Then, with all due respect, banning the most recent leaker just doesn't seem right. Sorry to cause stress. I just don't agree.
Well, there were statements posted requesting people not to post leaked pictures of War of the Dragon Queen after the 16 picture leak. The moderators had expressed their opinions in a general way. It wasn't just one moderator. After all the explanations from WotC (particularly the posts of lurkinglidda) and the moderators expression of support to them and the desire to hold back the information so that they could release it was very clear.
This whole thing about leaks this set is doing a lot of damage to trust and causing a lot of confusion. That's why I was saying that clear policies need to be made if any policies are going to be made. It's too difficult for us as a community to draw the line in the right place. If there is going to be some line, it needs to be drawn clearly. There's too much confusion and frustration the way it has been going. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2353 Posts
Australia
| | 05/03/2006 2:26 AM |
| Quite frankly, I don't like to have to be continually acting in reactive fashion with only seconds to think about things. I often don't act well.
There are also things I'm privy to behind the scenes that are influencing what my reactions are. No, these don't involve the threat of legal action or anything like that. Ask me about the full story after WotDQ comes out, and I'll fill you in.
As for my reaction to the last leak: I will think about it.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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DrX
Sergeant
408 Posts
| | 05/03/2006 2:29 AM |
| | Thanks, Merric. I, for one, really appreciate the honest replies. | |
HW List: http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=DrX
References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12409
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5091 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 05/03/2006 2:43 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by DrX
Thanks, Merric. I, for one, really appreciate the honest replies.
I'll second that. | |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
|
Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 05/03/2006 2:46 AM |
| I think part of the problem is a radical shift in how spoilers/leaks are dealt with. For the first few sets, we were encouraged to hunt them down. Now, that same activity is [severely] frowned upon.
Why the change was made is irrelevant for our purposes. However, we are dealing with it as normal people do. We are continuing to engage in previously accepted/encouraged behavior. The simple act of changing a standard does not automatically alter the behavior, and to expect total compliance to a 180 degree switch is unreasonable. It will take time to adjust, and there will be missteps along the way.
In the meanwhile, I can only say to the moderators that you have my sympathies for the headaches you all are going through.
However, this is EXACTLY why I said having Shoe, Ian, Linae, et al. here was like having drinks with the boss. Recently, this has been like a 24 hour a day, seven day a week office party with free booze. Pictures have been leaked, information was spilled, and people are getting hurt. Any time the lines between groups (in this case between the fans who seek the information and the employees who need to conceal information) are blurred like this, bad things happen.
No matter what they might say or believe to the contrary, Shoe, Ian, Linae and crew are not simply fans of D&D as most of us are. First and foremost, they are employees and representitives of Wizards of the Coast (Hasbro) and have responsibilities that they must satisfy based upon that relationship before dealing with any others (assuming that they wish to keep their respective jobs and stay in the good graces of thier respective bosses).
Unless some new rules or other drastic changes are made, things like this will continue to happen. Clearly defined policies need to be made. | |
Champion of the Werewolf Lord, Knight of Anything Duergar, and Squire of Things Gnollish
List reset with the start of previews for each new set...got Chainmail®? | |
|
Toxic_Rat
Sergeant
745 Posts
Lehi, Utah, USA
| | 05/03/2006 2:47 AM |
| Its not the size of the leak (I think) its that the leaks are causing personal problems. Its not just finding out a set number, jobs and reputations are being affected.
This is not right.
There is a difference between a speculation and a leak. We know what the set number for Tiamat is. There is all kind of speculation as to how many LG, CG are in the set. That info was "leaked" by WotC when they allowed the figure to go to europe. Its a little tidbit. But when we've been asked not to post info here that has not come from an official source, then I think we ought to zip our lips (or keyboards as the case may be).
So many unofficial leaks are going to cause WotC Management to reconsider how things are done. Maybe they change nothing, but why risk it? It's certainly not worth making Lidda explain to the Boss why things are happening.
| |
Any time you try to make something idiot-proof, someone always goes out and invents a better idiot.
Champion of Siege Equipment | |
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Cosworth
Warrior
215 Posts
| | 05/03/2006 2:49 AM |
| Without having the details, I think the most recent ban for posting multiple pictures of one (new?) WotDQ mini, was over the top.
The "don't post leaked pictures of the preview X pictures - even AFTER they have been shown by WotC" is just silly. There are more legal issues with all the stats posted here than those pictures.
I think highly of the moderators here, but in this case they have led themselves astray in favour of information control.
While Sam500 is provoking in his "please don't boot me" statement it does reflect the current state of the site, where any member accidentally could post sensitive material and be banned. | |
Sorry Maxminis - find me at Hordelings from sep. 14 2006 | |
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sam500
Sergeant
419 Posts
Berkeley, CA
| | 05/03/2006 2:57 AM |
| I agree with what Can of the Cave Bear said.
This forum is not designed for Shoe, Lidda, or other WOTC employees.
This is a forum for fans looking for new info about their hobby. Leaks are a big part of this search and should be encouraged here.
It is unreasonable for WOTC managers to expect there not to be leaks (there are just too many people involved in each step of production). It would be a very unfair boss to hold Lidda and co. responsible and hand down strict punishments. Even so, this is not the main concern of the maxminis board.
I think WOTC should accept that leaks are going to happen and concentrating on continuing to make a great product.
If they make good minis consumers will buy them, leaks or no.
Yours,
Sam | |
CHAMPION OF ALL TOWNSFOLK
47 COMPLETED TRADES ON MAXMINIS
14 COMPLETED TRADES ON WOTC BOARDS
I USE THE SAME HANDLE ON HORDELINGS, WOTC DDM BOARDS, AND DWARVEN FORGE FORUMS. | |
|
sam500
Sergeant
419 Posts
Berkeley, CA
| | 05/03/2006 2:59 AM |
| quote:
[i]
While Sam500 is provoking in his "please don't boot me" statement it does reflect the current state of the site, where any member accidentally could post sensitive material and be banned.
I didn't mean this statement as provoking. | |
CHAMPION OF ALL TOWNSFOLK
47 COMPLETED TRADES ON MAXMINIS
14 COMPLETED TRADES ON WOTC BOARDS
I USE THE SAME HANDLE ON HORDELINGS, WOTC DDM BOARDS, AND DWARVEN FORGE FORUMS. | |
| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2353 Posts
Australia
| | 05/03/2006 2:59 AM |
| quote:
Without having the details, I think the most recent ban for posting multiple pictures of one (new?) WotDQ mini, was over the top.
Quite possibly. I'm still interested in knowing where the mini came from, however. (Bans can be overturned, quite easily. It's not that easy to excise a memory.)
quote:
The "don't post leaked pictures of the preview X pictures - even AFTER they have been shown by WotC" is just silly. There are more legal issues with all the stats posted here than those pictures.
It's not mainly for legal reasons. The two main reasons that I'd prefer the leaked pictures not to be reposted are these:
* It makes Linae happy. (Wizards spent more time & money on the promo photos for WotDQ than usual. The leaked photos undermine their efforts, and can cause other problems).
* It doesn't make the original leaker happy. (If that person pops by and sees everyone looking at the photos he or she leaked, then it makes them want to do it again. So, I'd like to restrict that pleasure.)
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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sam500
Sergeant
419 Posts
Berkeley, CA
| | 05/03/2006 3:08 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MerricB
* It makes Linae happy. (Wizards spent more time & money on the promo photos for WotDQ than usual. The leaked photos undermine their efforts, and can cause other problems).
* It doesn't make the original leaker happy. (If that person pops by and sees everyone looking at the photos he or she leaked, then it makes them want to do it again. So, I'd like to restrict that pleasure.)
I don't think these are good reasons for recent actions taken.
Reason 1: Maxminis is a site for fans and should focus on making the fans happy, not Linae or other WOTC employees. "Drinks with the boss" is a good metaphore for this. One of the things I liked about this site was it's independence from WOTC (ie. not tied to the same rules as the WOTC boards so I could say what I liked about wizards. If I said negative things about WOTC and lauded their competitors it probably wouldn't make WOTC employees happy either, so should those ideas be banned as well?
Reaons 2: I really don't understand this reason at all. Why do you want to punish the original leaker? He/she is just doing the same as many have done before and at one point was even encouraged on this site. In addition, in attemting to punish him/her you are punishing many other fans who come to maxminis. I for one, didn't get a chance to see the pics when they were up. I wanted to. But now I can't. So in effect you are punishing me as well. This just doesn't seem like a good reason to me.
Yours,
Sam | |
CHAMPION OF ALL TOWNSFOLK
47 COMPLETED TRADES ON MAXMINIS
14 COMPLETED TRADES ON WOTC BOARDS
I USE THE SAME HANDLE ON HORDELINGS, WOTC DDM BOARDS, AND DWARVEN FORGE FORUMS. | |
|
evilMoose
49 Posts
Broken Hill, Australia
| | 05/03/2006 3:09 AM |
| Now we see the violence inherent in the system .....
.....Help, Help, we're being repressed ! | |
'nuff said,
AC | |
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sam500
Sergeant
419 Posts
Berkeley, CA
| | 05/03/2006 3:10 AM |
| | For the record, I think WOTC has done wonders for RPGers. When I refer to having the freedom to express dislike in WOTC, it's just hypothetical. | |
CHAMPION OF ALL TOWNSFOLK
47 COMPLETED TRADES ON MAXMINIS
14 COMPLETED TRADES ON WOTC BOARDS
I USE THE SAME HANDLE ON HORDELINGS, WOTC DDM BOARDS, AND DWARVEN FORGE FORUMS. | |
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Warden
Skirmisher
2 Posts
| | 05/03/2006 3:17 AM |
| | Hang him high! | |
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evilMoose
49 Posts
Broken Hill, Australia
| | 05/03/2006 3:21 AM |
| I just got beaten senseless by a chick in a bikini with enormous breasts and you all think that a little mini's leak is a problem ?
.... anyway, back to the xbox. | |
'nuff said,
AC | |
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md3
Sergeant
702 Posts
| | 05/03/2006 3:31 AM |
| Wow, things got busy while I was gone.
Anyway, thanks to all of those who went to bat for me. I guess deep in the back of my mind I knew this cool fig would be trouble. The sad thing is that he wouldn't trade it to me.
Anyway, I'll be going back to that store in the hopes that there might be a cool Rare in a starter. Just kidding. I won't be posting a photo or posting about it here if I did get one anyway.
Thanks Merric for being so reasonable.
Anyone up for a drink? | |
"You are not the sum of your miniatures."
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zanaroth
Sneak
149 Posts
| | 05/03/2006 3:46 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by sam500
I do NOT like the trend that the moderators have set here.
Maxminis has turned from an "open source" faunt of information and leaks of upcoming sets to a restricted environment. I feel threatened for voicing my opinions now for fear of being banned.
Merric, you yourself have said that you have looked forward to leaks in the past. The only difference this time is the scope of the current leak and the intervening time to the next set. I don't believe these differences justify the shift in management of the site. If you personally feel that leaks have gone to far, many others do not. I don't really know how these sites are run, but it seems one persons opinion should not control a public forum (especially not one independent of WOTC). You've also set a precedent in the past for allowing images to be posted.
Reguarding WOTC employees posting here:
I think it's cool... really cool.... but not essential. I don't think policies should change in an effort to keep them here. It's our forum after all not theirs. There is a WOTC forum for people to post at. I appreicate getting heads up from shoe, lidda, and gang, but don't think the site should be run different than previously (and leaks have happened in the past).
However, (and this is a big however) I do NOT want to see maxminis get into any legal trouble. This seems like the only real problem with picture posts (although this is less of a problem just talking about the leaked minis, which I think should be allowed). I love the site and want to support it. I've been supported by others here with problem trades and find many of the topics fun to post about.
These are just my opinions. I don't mean them to sound disparaging.
Please don't boot me.
Yours,
Sam
I agree with you 100%.
I'm quite sure that the past sets leaks were "allowed" from WotC(just to increase the sellings), the last one maybe (and I say Maybe) was a true leak, and so disappointed the WotC staff.
Excuse me for my bad English, i hope you understand my wwords. | |
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TheDoctor
Sneak
99 Posts
| | 05/03/2006 4:02 AM |
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quote:
It's not mainly for legal reasons. The two main reasons that I'd prefer the leaked pictures not to be reposted are these:
* It makes Linae happy. (Wizards spent more time & money on the promo photos for WotDQ than usual. The leaked photos undermine their efforts, and can cause other problems).
* It doesn't make the original leaker happy. (If that person pops by and sees everyone looking at the photos he or she leaked, then it makes them want to do it again. So, I'd like to restrict that pleasure.)
Cheers!
So, let me get this straight. One new mini was shown, and the admins removed the thread and banned the poster?
I'm sure there's more at work here behind the scenes but come on!
This board is supposed to be a place for fans of the DDM game, where we can discuss old sets and new sets (it says so in the title). And now you're saying the current direction of the board is in place, basically, to please Wizards and punish the fans? And we can't discuss certain minis? Threads disappear? People disappear?
Now, to an extent I can agree with you. A leak of over a quarter of the set is a bit much, and it is absolutely lovely that the WotC respresentatives give us their opinions. But this seems a bit much, frankly.
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| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2353 Posts
Australia
| | 05/03/2006 4:24 AM |
| The policy at Maxminis isn't to punish the fans. However, it's also not to shelter someone doing something that is definitely illegal. (e.g. breaking a NDA)
It looks like md3 got hold of a "Warden of the Wood" purely by chance - his friend found it in a starter. That raises questions about how the starters are packaged (and is something I'm sure Wizards will look into). It also makes me wish I could be so lucky.
Do I have a problem with the pictures in this circumstance? No, I do not.
Did I blunder in handling it? Yes, I did. I made my question to md3 about where his friend got the figure to sound trivial. It wasn't. Thus, when his original response didn't say "mispackaged in a starter" but "wouldn't you like to know!", I got very suspicious indeed. (In his defense, he didn't actually know where it came from at the time, being a born snooper and posting the photos immediately rather than finding out).
Will I make this mistake again? No. Will I make others? I hope not, but it wouldn't surprise me.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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Cosworth
Warrior
215 Posts
| | 05/03/2006 4:40 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by sam500
quote:
While Sam500 is provoking in his "please don't boot me" statement it does reflect the current state of the site, where any member accidentally could post sensitive material and be banned.
I didn't mean this statement as provoking.
Sorry for misrepresenting your statement
quote:
[i]Originally posted by MerricB
The two main reasons that I'd prefer the leaked pictures not to be reposted are these:...
* It makes Linae happy. (Wizards spent more time & money on the promo photos for WotDQ than usual. The leaked photos undermine their efforts, and can cause other problems).
* It doesn't make the original leaker happy. (If that person pops by and sees everyone looking at the photos he or she leaked, then it makes them want to do it again. So, I'd like to restrict that pleasure.)
The second argument almost had me convinced!
The dangerous trend here is that while most moderated sites have a "be nice to each other" policy, we have for a while had a "be nice to each other AND WotC" policy, which is a big part of why WotC dare post here. Now it becoming "Be nice to each other and don't dare upset WotC or you will be banned" policy. Let's not go there please.
Good call on lifting the ban Merric. | |
Sorry Maxminis - find me at Hordelings from sep. 14 2006 | |
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5091 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 05/03/2006 4:44 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Cosworth
Good call on lifting the ban Merric.
A ban seemed a bit harsh in this particular case. I agree it was a good call to lift it. | |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
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