Kunimatyu
Sergeant
725 Posts
    
 | | 06/03/2006 2:42 PM |
| On the main WotC site, it's mentioned that "R&D wanted Aspects of each of the Demon Lords" and that said Aspects will be released in a Web Enhancement soon.
Now, why would R&D want aspects for each of the demon lords? Hmm.... | |
Champion of the Aboleth, Prophet of Denizens. BW Called Shot: Babau, UH Called Shot: Aspect of Vecna | |
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Zaukrie
Underboss
2007 Posts
| | 06/03/2006 2:44 PM |
| They want them for the FC1 book that comes out in 2 weeks. (edited to be complete sentence)
But, I'm certain we'll get 1-3 of them in the next set also. | |
Fastest dropping DCI ranking on record!
Champion of Juiblex | |
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PaSquall
Underboss
1399 Posts
| | 06/03/2006 2:49 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zaukrie
They want them for the FC1 book that comes out in 2 weeks. (edited to be complete sentence)
But, I'm certain we'll get 1-3 of them in the next set also.
HA ! I hope you're right !!! | |
Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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MechaKingGhidra
Sergeant
632 Posts
| | 06/03/2006 3:03 PM |
| | I can understand aspects of certain beings. Dragons are obviously going to be aspects of draconic dieties. Humanoids are going to represent the gods they follow and for the most part no one else worships those particular gods. But how in the Abyss do you choose an aspect for demonic beings? Will it be a creature that looks very similar to the demon lord? Will it be an already known demon, possibly mainstream, that will take the job? It's very confusing. | |
Champion of the Prismatic Golem
MechaKingGhidra: Infamous for his absolute despisement of Red Dragons and devout worshipper of all Black Dragons. | |
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Custom Title
WakeXX
Warlord
10152 Posts
Edinboro PA
| | 06/03/2006 3:05 PM |
| | Yeah baby,Demon lord aspects rock! | | | |
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Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 06/03/2006 3:12 PM |
| Goodies!
I've always dug on the Aspects, and I'll be happy to see more show up! Since I've never been hung up on the size of the base (or can easily make larger ones--which reminds me I need to buy some 3" and 2" discs pretty soon...) they're just handy to have around. | |
Champion of the Werewolf Lord, Knight of Anything Duergar, and Squire of Things Gnollish
List reset with the start of previews for each new set...got Chainmail®? | |
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Kunimatyu
Sergeant
725 Posts
| | 06/03/2006 3:46 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MechaKingGhidra
I can understand aspects of certain beings. Dragons are obviously going to be aspects of draconic dieties. Humanoids are going to represent the gods they follow and for the most part no one else worships those particular gods. But how in the Abyss do you choose an aspect for demonic beings? Will it be a creature that looks very similar to the demon lord? Will it be an already known demon, possibly mainstream, that will take the job? It's very confusing.
You're a bit off on the definition of aspect. An Aspect is a tiny fraction of a being's power embodied and sent to the material plane to accomplish that entity's wishes. It's not a worshipper of the deity.
But that's not what's funny.
The CRs of the demon lords have all been downgraded to the CR19-23 range(as in, 2 balors could kill most of them) so that players can kill a demon lord at the end of a campaign.
So, if an aspect is a tiny fraction of a deity's or demon lord's power, and a deity is very very powerful(CR 40+), what's a tiny fraction of a CR20ish demon lord? CR 5? CR 2? ::snicker:: | |
Champion of the Aboleth, Prophet of Denizens. BW Called Shot: Babau, UH Called Shot: Aspect of Vecna | |
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MechaKingGhidra
Sergeant
632 Posts
| | 06/03/2006 4:01 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Kunimatyu
quote:
Originally posted by MechaKingGhidra
I can understand aspects of certain beings. Dragons are obviously going to be aspects of draconic dieties. Humanoids are going to represent the gods they follow and for the most part no one else worships those particular gods. But how in the Abyss do you choose an aspect for demonic beings? Will it be a creature that looks very similar to the demon lord? Will it be an already known demon, possibly mainstream, that will take the job? It's very confusing.
You're a bit off on the definition of aspect. An Aspect is a tiny fraction of a being's power embodied and sent to the material plane to accomplish that entity's wishes. It's not a worshipper of the deity.
But that's not what's funny.
The CRs of the demon lords have all been downgraded to the CR19-23 range(as in, 2 balors could kill most of them) so that players can kill a demon lord at the end of a campaign.
So, if an aspect is a tiny fraction of a deity's or demon lord's power, and a deity is very very powerful(CR 40+), what's a tiny fraction of a CR20ish demon lord? CR 5? CR 2? ::snicker::
That makes no sense, at least to me. How is it that a random, non-worshipper of a diety or equivalent being receives a splinter of power in hopes the creature will use it for accomplishing that being's wishes? Does the power come with pre-programmed instructions on what to do, making it a form of Dominate Person or Dominate Monster? If a little more light could be shed on this, it would be greatly appreciated. | |
Champion of the Prismatic Golem
MechaKingGhidra: Infamous for his absolute despisement of Red Dragons and devout worshipper of all Black Dragons. | |
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kgradert13
Sergeant
909 Posts
| | 06/03/2006 4:05 PM |
| Aspect of Iuz
Aspect of Zuggmatoy
Aspect of Vecna
Yes please.
I also want to see some of the old school greyhawk stuff (From the early Gord the Rogue books) like Aspect of Rexfelis, Chert, Curley Greenleaf, etc
Can re-enact the whole ultimate evil cycle then | |
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Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 06/03/2006 4:18 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MechaKingGhidra
That makes no sense, at least to me. How is it that a random, non-worshipper of a diety or equivalent being receives a splinter of power in hopes the creature will use it for accomplishing that being's wishes? Does the power come with pre-programmed instructions on what to do, making it a form of Dominate Person or Dominate Monster? If a little more light could be shed on this, it would be greatly appreciated.
Every day, people walk through the world leaving bits of themselves everywhere. Hair, dead skin cells, nail clippings, etc.
Now, imagine that clump of hair you pulled out of the shower drain this morning was sentient, looked and acted just like you and instantly hated every other clump of hair you've ever left in the shower.
Aspects are fractions of the entities power that either spring up randomly from said entities home plane or "break off" at seemingly random times. They usually don't last long, and most are reabsorbed by the entity (probably without ever realizing that the Aspect was created) or by the plane itself.
For all intents and purposes, most Aspects probably believe themselves to BE that entity.
Think of them as echoes of their greater selves.
From the Miniatures Handbook
quote:
An aspect is the embodiment of a small portion of an archfiend's or deity's life force. The original's power is so great that this shred of life force is actually able to take shape as a living creature (or an undead creature, as in the case of an aspect of Vecna).
There's more on pages 46-47, but hopefully that will clear things up. | |
Champion of the Werewolf Lord, Knight of Anything Duergar, and Squire of Things Gnollish
List reset with the start of previews for each new set...got Chainmail®? | |
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jacksonm
Warlord
5560 Posts
River City
| | 06/03/2006 4:21 PM |
| | Sounds good to me. [}:)] | | | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2712 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 06/03/2006 4:21 PM |
| | I think most Aspects clock in at about CR 9. | |
In the constellation of
Cygnus, there lurks a
mysterious, invisible
force:
Rush | |
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TroglodyteWizard89
Warrior
346 Posts
USA
| | 06/03/2006 4:24 PM |
| Aspect of Graz'zt
Aspect of Fraz-Urb'luu
WOOT
not really expecting the second one...but Graz'zt would be great to battle my Aspect of Demogorgon and Orcus | |
Champion of Troglodytes!
Guy Who Cant Get Anything Exact
(called uncommon displacer beast for Unhallowed
Squire of Runic Guardian, gets shield Guardian) | |
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MechaKingGhidra
Sergeant
632 Posts
| | 06/03/2006 6:59 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Can of the Cave Beer
quote:
Originally posted by MechaKingGhidra
That makes no sense, at least to me. How is it that a random, non-worshipper of a diety or equivalent being receives a splinter of power in hopes the creature will use it for accomplishing that being's wishes? Does the power come with pre-programmed instructions on what to do, making it a form of Dominate Person or Dominate Monster? If a little more light could be shed on this, it would be greatly appreciated.
Every day, people walk through the world leaving bits of themselves everywhere. Hair, dead skin cells, nail clippings, etc.
Now, imagine that clump of hair you pulled out of the shower drain this morning was sentient, looked and acted just like you and instantly hated every other clump of hair you've ever left in the shower.
Aspects are fractions of the entities power that either spring up randomly from said entities home plane or "break off" at seemingly random times. They usually don't last long, and most are reabsorbed by the entity (probably without ever realizing that the Aspect was created) or by the plane itself.
For all intents and purposes, most Aspects probably believe themselves to BE that entity.
Think of them as echoes of their greater selves.
From the Miniatures Handbook
quote:
An aspect is the embodiment of a small portion of an archfiend's or deity's life force. The original's power is so great that this shred of life force is actually able to take shape as a living creature (or an undead creature, as in the case of an aspect of Vecna).
There's more on pages 46-47, but hopefully that will clear things up.
Thanks for the info. That's all I needed to know. | |
Champion of the Prismatic Golem
MechaKingGhidra: Infamous for his absolute despisement of Red Dragons and devout worshipper of all Black Dragons. | |
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Dargoth
Underboss
1274 Posts
| | 06/03/2006 11:21 PM |
| | Given the fact the LE source book comes out around the same time Blood War comes out Id expect to see Aspects of Arch devils in the set as well | |
Champion of the Zhentarim: Manshoon, Fzoul and Scyllua Darkhope | |
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DarkWhite
Warrior
185 Posts
| | 06/04/2006 12:04 AM |
| Juiblex is just screaming to be immortalised in translucent green plastic with teeth and floating eyes!
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060601b&page=1
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http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=DarkWhite
[for trade only within Australia, no overseas trade thanks] | |
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I Tyrant
Warrior
178 Posts
| | 06/04/2006 12:46 AM |
| quote:
So, if an aspect is a tiny fraction of a deity's or demon lord's power, and a deity is very very powerful(CR 40+), what's a tiny fraction of a CR20ish demon lord? CR 5? CR 2? ::snicker::
Jez, I never thought of that, good catch, man that stinks, at that rate just make a mini of the demon lord it's self! | |
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Ackrus
Warrior
282 Posts
| | 06/04/2006 1:30 AM |
| | I am hoping for all of the Demon Aspects[:D]! | |
Champion of Halaster Blackcloak
Rage!!!!!!!!!! | |
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Korhal_IV
Sergeant
852 Posts
| | 06/04/2006 2:07 AM |
| The CR 19-23 statblocks were meant to be Aspects. The text explaining that they were only Aspects and not the demon lords themselves was erased, according to a developer post on ENWorld. There are rules in the Codex for upgrading demon lords, however.
So, quitcherbitchin' already. | |
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Trade References: www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8560 | |
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TYGRHobbes
Sneak
149 Posts
| | 06/04/2006 2:58 AM |
| | Is an aspect the same as an avatar of a particular deity? I was asking because they have avatars listed at the end of a deity's description in the FR Faiths and Pantheons book. | |
Champion of the Lamia
www.tygrhobbes.com | |
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Sammael
Underboss
1881 Posts
| | 06/04/2006 3:22 AM |
| Aspects are weaker than Avatars.
Generally speaking, IMO, aspects should be around CR 10-15, avatars CR 20-25, and real archfiends should be CR 35+. Deities should not, of course, be statted. | |
Hypethetical Blood War Set List | Champion of the Gelugon | Vindicated Prophet of Blood War
Ha 69/80 | De 60/60 | Ar 57/60 | GoL 72/72 | Ab 60/60 | DK 60/60 | AF 60/60 | UD 59/60 | WD 57/60 | WDQ 3/60| BW
Total DDM Count: 1037 | No chance of finishing the set | Will finish the set | Set | |
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Kunimatyu
Sergeant
725 Posts
| | 06/04/2006 6:14 AM |
| | Sammael has the right of it. An avatar is basically a super-charged aspect spawned directly by the deity/archfiend for a specific purpose. An aspect, while it may consider itself the deity, doesn't have the same power level and purpose that an avatar does. | |
Champion of the Aboleth, Prophet of Denizens. BW Called Shot: Babau, UH Called Shot: Aspect of Vecna | |
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orcdoubleax
Sergeant
694 Posts
| | 06/04/2006 6:59 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by TYGRHobbes
Is an aspect the same as an avatar of a particular deity? I was asking because they have avatars listed at the end of a deity's description in the FR Faiths and Pantheons book.
The biggest difference is that an avatar is controlled directly by the god, demon etc. It is a prime material mmanfstation of the creatures will.
An aspect has no connection with the god or demon. It is just left over risdue that has form into a poor photocopy of the god/demon.
examples
It could happen because a demon enter the prime material plane.
It could arise spontaneously at an ancient temple that had thousands of human scarfices for example.
A good aspect might arise at the site of a incredably important mircle by a cleric of the diety.
P.S. Can of Cave Bear explanation and visual reference is very good. I like it. | |
Yes I am Gelatinous.
www.gelatinousdudes.com
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FeranEldritchKnight
Sergeant
385 Posts
Kansas City, MO USA
| | 06/04/2006 11:31 AM |
| | The MHB says that aspects can also be summoned using the Planar Ally spells. I would say that those particular aspects are less random and the diety should be aware of their existence (in the same way they are aware of their followers' prayers). | |
Completed trades: Gausse, Mazra, Pagansexy, Galerians, Lord_Raven, Drakkengi, Temujinn x2, Random Sasquatch, elf_ranger, Azuretide, Hung4treason, Griffrat (face2face), Nasamonkey
Carpe Forum! | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3398 Posts
Netherlands
| | 06/04/2006 1:34 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by orcdoubleax
The biggest difference is that an avatar is controlled directly by the god, demon etc. It is a prime material mmanfstation of the creatures will.
Correct, I would say that another BIG difference is the CR. Aspects are generally between 9 and 14 and Avatars are 27-40 or something like it.
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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taliesin
Underboss
1113 Posts
| | 06/04/2006 2:26 PM |
| You know what? As long as they can proxy well for something else, I'm fine with Aspects. So, Grazz't is a little lower on my list than, say, Yeenoghu. Yeenoghu can at least pass for an enlarged gnoll.
As long as we're on the topic of aspects, while I'd rather just get a Leonal (it's on the summon monster list), if we have to have aspects, then an aspect of Talisid would proxy well and give the Good factions another powerful piece. | |
Champion of the Entire Monster Manual 1!
(Click link to see current progress!)
Uncommon Painting Competition 2 Winner | |
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lingster
Sergeant
778 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 11:41 AM |
| | Aspect of Asmodeous is already comingout.... We've already got Errata for it! | |
May you find peace and happiness at the hand of Hextor.
Champion of Black Pudding
Called Shot Desert of Desolation: Drider - VINDICATED!
Called Shot Demonweb: Drow Cleric of Lloth
Called Shot FeyWild: Water Nymph (06-26-08)
Member of Team Millennium
4E takes away our Big Bad Evil Guy (BBEG) and give us this:
The Big Bad Mis-Understood But Not Quite Inherently Evil Who Does Naughty Things Guy (BBMUBNQIEWDNTG for short) | |
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lantern314
Sergeant
684 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 11:46 AM |
| I'm suspicious that the new gnoll archer and hyena figures presage an Aspect of Yeenoghu in Blood War.
While we are on the topic of Juiblex, am I the only one that thought that the temple to Juiblex in the Wrath of the Dragon God movie was awful clean for a shrine to an ooze? | |
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Count Dooku
Commander
4637 Posts
New York
| | 06/05/2006 11:50 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by lingster
Aspect of Asmodeous is already comingout.... We've already got Errata for it!
Not to dissapoint...but the Errata is for the RPG stats found in the Miniatures Handbook....Not for an upcomming mini.
That doesnt mean I REALLY want an Aspect of Asmodeous though :)
Aspect, Avatar, or the real deal...It doesnt really matter how its labeled on the mini...As long as the size is the same I can use the mini for all 3 in RPG. | |
Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
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yack
Commander
3270 Posts
Gatineau Canada
| | 06/05/2006 12:00 PM |
| | Agree Count bring on the demon princes and the arch devils! | |
Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
DW: Duergar Priest
RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12463 Posts
The G Spot
| | 06/05/2006 12:26 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by kgradert13
Aspect of Iuz
Aspect of Zuggmatoy
Aspect of Vecna
Yes please.
Yes, yes, yes please. [:D] | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM | |
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Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 8:46 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by lantern314
I'm suspicious that the new gnoll archer and hyena figures presage an Aspect of Yeenoghu in Blood War.
Oh...If only that is true!
Yee-no-ghu!
Yee-no-ghu!
Of course, I wouldn't say "no" to Asmodeus, either. | |
Champion of the Werewolf Lord, Knight of Anything Duergar, and Squire of Things Gnollish
List reset with the start of previews for each new set...got Chainmail®? | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3398 Posts
Netherlands
| | 06/06/2006 7:06 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Can of the Cave Beer
quote:
Originally posted by lantern314
I'm suspicious that the new gnoll archer and hyena figures presage an Aspect of Yeenoghu in Blood War.
Oh...If only that is true!
Yee-no-ghu!
Yee-no-ghu!
Of course, I wouldn't say "no" to Asmodeus, either.
We've got the Glabrezu, which can sub as Aspect of Yeenoghu. Even Gnolls are fooled (check the Quinix entry in the Shining South).
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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caliban
Sergeant
542 Posts
| | 06/06/2006 7:57 AM |
| The aspects are some of the coolest minis IMHO. They fill in for avatars nicely.
My beef is having more than one aspect in a warband. The MHB states that individual aspects represent different aspects of the god's personality and if two aspects were to meet they would most likely be hostile to each other.
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"Whoops there goes another rubber tree"
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Pending Trades: Kestrel.ca
BAD TRADES: | |
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 06/06/2006 9:00 AM |
| | Well here is to getting a few aspects of demon lords in blood war. My big hope is that it is not more then a couple... three at the most. | |
Sean Banks
Champion of Elementals
Official Organizer
Gen Con 05 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 06 maxminis Event | Gen Con 06 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 07 Community Event | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3398 Posts
Netherlands
| | 06/06/2006 10:41 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by striderlotr
Well here is to getting a few aspects of demon lords in blood war. My big hope is that it is not more then a couple... three at the most.
After seeing the art gallery of Fiendish codex 1, I give the WotC crew leave to produce minis of each and every picture in there! awesome book!
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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Mjollnir
Underboss
1489 Posts
Canary Islands - Spain
| | 06/06/2006 10:57 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Dordledum
After seeing the art gallery of Fiendish codex 1, I give the WotC crew leave to produce minis of each and every picture in there! awesome book!
D.
Then, I would really like to see a mini of the Mane (powerful fiend since 2nd edition at least). BAr-Igura is another demon from AD&D that would rock. Sniff! Goristro, sniff! still far away... | |
Champion of the Molydeus
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"Sé que me acusan de soberbia, y tal vez de misantropía, y tal vez de locura. Tales acusaciones (que yo castigaré a su debido tiempo) son irrisorias." - Jorge Luis Borges
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Lachlarlan_the_Mad
Sergeant
470 Posts
| | 06/06/2006 11:40 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Kunimatyu
quote:
Originally posted by MechaKingGhidra
I can understand aspects of certain beings. Dragons are obviously going to be aspects of draconic dieties. Humanoids are going to represent the gods they follow and for the most part no one else worships those particular gods. But how in the Abyss do you choose an aspect for demonic beings? Will it be a creature that looks very similar to the demon lord? Will it be an already known demon, possibly mainstream, that will take the job? It's very confusing.
You're a bit off on the definition of aspect. An Aspect is a tiny fraction of a being's power embodied and sent to the material plane to accomplish that entity's wishes. It's not a worshipper of the deity.
But that's not what's funny.
The CRs of the demon lords have all been downgraded to the CR19-23 range(as in, 2 balors could kill most of them) so that players can kill a demon lord at the end of a campaign.
So, if an aspect is a tiny fraction of a deity's or demon lord's power, and a deity is very very powerful(CR 40+), what's a tiny fraction of a CR20ish demon lord? CR 5? CR 2? ::snicker::
I was under the impression that all demon lords had Divine Rank: 0. They are all able to grant spells to their followers, so that makes sense.
Also, with DivR: 0 they would, in fact, for all intents and purposes, be immortal. They can be killed, but they can't be killed permanently. Except by equally powerful beings. | |
Champion of the Mimic; Knight of the Caryatid Column
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yack
Commander
3270 Posts
Gatineau Canada
| | 06/06/2006 12:16 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Dordledum
quote:
Originally posted by striderlotr
Well here is to getting a few aspects of demon lords in blood war. My big hope is that it is not more then a couple... three at the most.
After seeing the art gallery of Fiendish codex 1, I give the WotC crew leave to produce minis of each and every picture in there! awesome book!
D.
Second that!!! Bring them on! | |
Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
DW: Duergar Priest
RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
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