lyus_sleyden
Warrior
253 Posts
    
 | | 06/12/2006 9:25 PM |
| Has there Ever been a Scandle around this site about Fake DDM cards???
Please give me any infromation you can about this topic.....
Tim
| |
Minister of Social Issues of KD
The Champion of the Gray Slaad | |
|
Benimoto
Underboss
1125 Posts
| | 06/12/2006 9:42 PM |
| Uh, no. No scandals that I've heard of anyhow. Sometimes people want to know how they can make realistic-looking cards for homemade miniatures, but I don't think anybody's ever been fooled by fake cards.
Most people that play a lot know almost all the cards and what they do, so there' not much point in trying to make a fake card. Much less a scandal. | |
Champion of the Rakshasa. Check out my Mini Terrain Maker, or my new Dungeon Map Maker (under development). | |
|
lyus_sleyden
Warrior
253 Posts
| | 06/12/2006 9:49 PM |
| I resently got a Drizzt to Trade...I received the Drizzt and Shipped it in the Same Day. I Look the Mini Over carefully and glanced at the card. Yes It had Drizzt picture on it I Did not study the Card the way I studyed the Mini....The Person I sent It to now says the Card is a Fake....
WHAT CAN I DO???????
Tim | |
Minister of Social Issues of KD
The Champion of the Gray Slaad | |
|
Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| |
Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 06/12/2006 10:54 PM |
| Get them to take a picture of the card for you to examine and make sure it same as you sent.
Pay thier postage to send both mini & card back.
| |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
|
Lab Monkey
Commander
4136 Posts
| | 06/12/2006 11:10 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Bert the Troll
Get them to take a picture of the card for you to examine and make sure it same as you sent.
Pay thier postage to send both mini & card back.
Great advice. This is exactly what I would do. | |
Have: Cat; Want: Storm Giant
Champion of Anything Dragonlance
Before trading, please check the Disputed Trades Thread | |
|
nasamonkey
Warrior
296 Posts
| | 06/12/2006 11:29 PM |
| Hi,he traded with me.As he said he got it from another trader,I do not want to accuse him.
As an ex MTG player,i have dealt and came across fake cards so I am always careful with especially high end trades.
Heres the scan of the cards,and i put it side by side with another
What i found:
1)different material used(much softer,much rougher surface,bends differently)
2)ink and color is different
3)size of card is different.compare them.
4)notice the design under the name,where the spikes are,check the linings in it.its not clear.very dark too.
5)at close range,the font is fuzzier than the other card.
6)the borders have traces of lines,looks like it was an outline for someone to cut the card.
I have compared it with cards from Harbinger,DE,Archfiends,GOL..
**I am willing to send this card to any moderator,or even better a WOTC representitive to let me if this card is for real**
CHEERS,
~L | |
~Copy and open the web addresses/references below in a new browser, i've no idea how to link it. Cheers~
~~~~~~
39 COMPLETED TRADES:-
http://maxminis.com/Trade/MyTrades/tabid/66/Default.aspx
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TRADING REFERENCES:-
http://maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/36/forumid/9/threadid/16807/scope/posts/Default.aspx | |
|
Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 06/12/2006 11:40 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by nasamonkey
Hi,he traded with me.As he said he got it from another trader,I do not want to accuse him.
As an ex MTG player,i have dealt and came across fake cards so I am always careful with especially high end trades.
Heres the scan of the cards,and i put it side by side with another
What i found:
1)different material used(much softer,much rougher surface,bends differently)
2)ink and color is different
3)size of card is different.compare them.
4)notice the design under the name,where the spikes are,check the linings in it.its not clear.very dark too.
5)at close range,the font is fuzzier than the other card.
I have compared it with cards from Harbinger,DE,Archfiends,GOL..
**I am willing to send this card to any moderator,or even better a WOTC representitive to let me if this card is for real**
CHEERS,
~L
Is the base of Drizzt different... I recall talk that someone used to sell of drizzt's that were unmarked and cardless. Just wondering if thats where OP got the card/mini from.
I found it to hard top tell via scans as too much white space to line them up on my computer, but can tell a difference in quality.
I think you might have to go with paying for it being sent back etc lyus_sleyden. If me I would possibily like to have an expert (or a mod [:p]) look at it first to confirm. It is hard to tell via pics.
PS thanks labmonkey | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
|
MightyEinherjar
Sergeant
387 Posts
| | 06/12/2006 11:41 PM |
| | Yeah, looks like it was probably photocopied onto cardstock. | |
Champion of the Aspect of Tempus | |
|
*censored*
glumag
Warlord
5968 Posts
| | 06/12/2006 11:43 PM |
| | The Drizzt card looks to me like a 300 dpi scan with a high contrast setting. The material alone should speak volumes to you and be enough proof. | |
Trades >> Completed: 49 | Bad: Ø | Pending: 0 | Trade & talk Live on IRC! SERVER: irc.psionics.net CHANNEL: #maxminis | |
|
nasamonkey
Warrior
296 Posts
| | 06/12/2006 11:44 PM |
| Bert: The figure looks fine.It's just the stat card that puzzles me.
To All:Thanks for the opinion.It tells me Í'm not mad.
I will gladly sent it to any Mod,I will be hitting town soon.
Would any moderators kindly volunteer for this?
Or get hold of any Wotc staff to examine this?
I reckon that the original owner of this figure got the cardless figure for cheap and decide to be the first maxmini pirate.
CHEERS,
~L | |
~Copy and open the web addresses/references below in a new browser, i've no idea how to link it. Cheers~
~~~~~~
39 COMPLETED TRADES:-
http://maxminis.com/Trade/MyTrades/tabid/66/Default.aspx
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TRADING REFERENCES:-
http://maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/36/forumid/9/threadid/16807/scope/posts/Default.aspx | |
|
Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 12:13 AM |
| I guess it was bound to happen sooner or later.
To be honest, I'm kind of surprised that it's taken this long. [v] | |
Champion of the Werewolf Lord, Knight of Anything Duergar, and Squire of Things Gnollish
List reset with the start of previews for each new set...got Chainmail®? | |
|
Lab Monkey
Commander
4136 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 12:24 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by nasamonkey
I will gladly sent it to any Mod,I will be hitting town soon.
Would any moderators kindly volunteer for this?
Not me. Sorry.
In general, I try to help keep trades honest here by helping to identify traders that are misbehaving. However, the last thing I want to do is play middle man on people's trades. I suspect that you'll get a similar response from other moderators and admins. It's up to you two to figure out how best to resolve the situation. I think Bert the Troll's suggestion has merit, but perhaps you two can come up with something even better.
| |
Have: Cat; Want: Storm Giant
Champion of Anything Dragonlance
Before trading, please check the Disputed Trades Thread | |
|
Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11768 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 06/13/2006 12:56 AM |
| | The collector value of this stuff is 90% in the figs, and maybe 10% in the stat cards. If someone wanted to make fake cards, they'd make a Michael Jordan rookie or vintage Mickey Mantle instead of a relatively worthless DDM stat card. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
|
robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 12:58 AM |
| Yeah this definately looks like a bad reproduction photocopy. Having worked in the printing field for a little while I know what photocopies would appear as and what the original would be. I pulled out my own Drizz't card also to make comparisons. The greyscale of the line with the arrows pointing down is a dead giveaway that this card is fake. Also the darkened lines of the Drizz't picture on the RPG side of the card is too.
I would say you need to call this trade a null and void and return the respective minis to each other.lyus I would suggest you contact whoever it was you originally got the Drizz't from and let them know they sent a fake. If they can't or are not willing to help you contact WotC customer service. I'm certain that someone there will not be happy to know there are any fake cards being sold or traded. This constitutes copyright infringement and is punishable by law.
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
******************************************************************************************************************************************************
Successful trades with: Tickparasite, Iyceman, Faragdar The Wise's friend, avrivah, Drakkengi, brucemc, Krush, maniacal_mini_monger, hung4treason, Gandy, NarlethDrider, Kunimatyu, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah..... | |
|
Wayne
Underboss
1371 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 1:04 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Thenameless
The collector value of this stuff is 90% in the figs, and maybe 10% in the stat cards. If someone wanted to make fake cards, they'd make a Michael Jordan rookie or vintage Mickey Mantle instead of a relatively worthless DDM stat card.
I think that's true for low- and mid-range figures, and maybe even for high-range high-skirmish-value pieces. But for a pure collector's piece like Drizzt, a great deal of the value will inhere in the card ... certainly a third, and maybe as much as half. | |
Jeff "Wayne Laredo" Wilder | Email | Have/Want List | Trade Policies | Are You an Ethical Trader?
| |
|
Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11768 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 06/13/2006 1:13 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Wayne
quote:
Originally posted by Thenameless
The collector value of this stuff is 90% in the figs, and maybe 10% in the stat cards. If someone wanted to make fake cards, they'd make a Michael Jordan rookie or vintage Mickey Mantle instead of a relatively worthless DDM stat card.
I think that's true for low- and mid-range figures, and maybe even for high-range high-skirmish-value pieces. But for a pure collector's piece like Drizzt, a great deal of the value will inhere in the card ... certainly a third, and maybe as much as half.
I think that half is way too much. If Drizzt can sell for as much as $140 online, I don't think his stat card alone could fetch anywhere near $70 in the current market. In fact, a little bit of digging in some FLGS's will often net bundles of extra unmatched stat cards from RPG purchasers that were not concerned with the stat cards. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
|
Wayne
Underboss
1371 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 1:37 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Thenameless
I think that half is way too much. If Drizzt can sell for as much as $140 online, I don't think his stat card alone could fetch anywhere near $70 in the current market.
That may very well be true, but it doesn't refute what I wrote.
The issue isn't "how much can I sell the stat card for" but rather "how much less will I get for Drizzt without the stat card?" The difference between what you could sell Drizzt for with the card, and how much without, is the value that inheres in the stat card. And, again, it's going to be a large amount, because the primary value of Drizzt right now is to collectors, and collectors are very finicky about such things. | |
Jeff "Wayne Laredo" Wilder | Email | Have/Want List | Trade Policies | Are You an Ethical Trader?
| |
|
robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 2:35 AM |
| Either way that Drizz't card is a fake. So obviously someone considers it a big enough of a deal to make a fake card.
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
******************************************************************************************************************************************************
Successful trades with: Tickparasite, Iyceman, Faragdar The Wise's friend, avrivah, Drakkengi, brucemc, Krush, maniacal_mini_monger, hung4treason, Gandy, NarlethDrider, Kunimatyu, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah..... | |
|
nasamonkey
Warrior
296 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 3:05 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Thenameless
The collector value of this stuff is 90% in the figs, and maybe 10% in the stat cards. If someone wanted to make fake cards, they'd make a Michael Jordan rookie or vintage Mickey Mantle instead of a relatively worthless DDM stat card.
The value of the card is not the big picture,but rather:
1)Would I trade for a figure without a stat card?
Most probably not.
2)If I knew he had no stat card for the figure would I trade for it?
Definitely not.I know how difficult it is to trade for stat cards for such figures.
3)I am worried as both a collector and player(so the card is worth something to me) that D&D minis has to come to the MTG situation.
The value is not up there with a BLACK LOTUS; however the individual has intended to produce fake cards illegally for trade purposes,and who knows as part of his/her ebay auction product.
If anyone is kind enough to think the genuine stat card is worth 10% or less,would you please kindly trade one to lyus_sleyden so we can complete the trade?
Thanks,
~L | |
~Copy and open the web addresses/references below in a new browser, i've no idea how to link it. Cheers~
~~~~~~
39 COMPLETED TRADES:-
http://maxminis.com/Trade/MyTrades/tabid/66/Default.aspx
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TRADING REFERENCES:-
http://maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/36/forumid/9/threadid/16807/scope/posts/Default.aspx | |
|
Low Key
Underboss
1231 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 5:29 AM |
| | Heh, not to sound like a bastard, but fake cards are a good sign in a way. It means that the game is popular enough that some people actually go through the trouble of making fake cards. [:D] | |
Champion of the Sarrukh | |
|
nasamonkey
Warrior
296 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 6:31 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Lab Monkey
quote:
Originally posted by nasamonkey
I will gladly sent it to any Mod,I will be hitting town soon.
Would any moderators kindly volunteer for this?
Not me. Sorry.
In general, I try to help keep trades honest here by helping to identify traders that are misbehaving. However, the last thing I want to do is play middle man on people's trades. I suspect that you'll get a similar response from other moderators and admins. It's up to you two to figure out how best to resolve the situation. I think Bert the Troll's suggestion has merit, but perhaps you two can come up with something even better.
Well,is trading fake cards a dishonest act?
Creating fake cards...I think that's definitely misbehaving and could possibly be a copyright breach.
~L | |
~Copy and open the web addresses/references below in a new browser, i've no idea how to link it. Cheers~
~~~~~~
39 COMPLETED TRADES:-
http://maxminis.com/Trade/MyTrades/tabid/66/Default.aspx
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TRADING REFERENCES:-
http://maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/36/forumid/9/threadid/16807/scope/posts/Default.aspx | |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12463 Posts
The G Spot
| | 06/13/2006 6:52 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MightyEinherjar
Yeah, looks like it was probably photocopied onto cardstock.
It certainly does look that way. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM | |
|
Gnolaum
Sergeant
854 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 10:32 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Thenameless
quote:
Originally posted by Wayne
quote:
Originally posted by Thenameless
The collector value of this stuff is 90% in the figs, and maybe 10% in the stat cards. If someone wanted to make fake cards, they'd make a Michael Jordan rookie or vintage Mickey Mantle instead of a relatively worthless DDM stat card.
I think that's true for low- and mid-range figures, and maybe even for high-range high-skirmish-value pieces. But for a pure collector's piece like Drizzt, a great deal of the value will inhere in the card ... certainly a third, and maybe as much as half.
I think that half is way too much. If Drizzt can sell for as much as $140 online, I don't think his stat card alone could fetch anywhere near $70 in the current market. In fact, a little bit of digging in some FLGS's will often net bundles of extra unmatched stat cards from RPG purchasers that were not concerned with the stat cards.
This is a case as the whole being worth more than the sum of the parts. Stat cards are in general worth $.1-$1, and I'd value Drizzt without the card @ about @15.00. Take both together, and they are worth ~$100.00 (to me). | |
My online store http://store.hoardsters.com
Use quick search to see scans of every stat card! | |
|
Custom Title
WakeXX
Warlord
10152 Posts
Edinboro PA
| | 06/13/2006 12:02 PM |
| | weirdness | | | |
|
Lab Monkey
Commander
4136 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 12:16 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by nasamonkey
Well,is trading fake cards a dishonest act?
Creating fake cards...I think that's definitely misbehaving and could possibly be a copyright breach.
~L
Well here's where you have to make a judgement call:
1.) Do you feel that you were knowning sent a fake card by another trader?
2.) Is that trader willing to work with you to resolve the problem to your satisfaction?
3.) Do you feel the trader manufactured the fake card himself?
If you feel he did know or he won't work with you or he did manufacture a fake card, then yes, I'd say
you have a disputed trade. In such a case, I'd be happy to list it on the disputed trades list.
If it was an innocent mistake and he's willing to work with you (such as returning your minis and paying for
you to ship his back) then I'd say you chalk it up to an honest mistake.
Making the call about whether or not this is a trade in dispute and determining whether or no the cards were faked
falls onto your shoulders. It's not that I'm trying to be unhelpful; it's just not my role or Maxminis
responsibility to arbitrate disputed trades. Maxminis is a site that gives you the opportunity to find trades
and we do our best to protect people by identifying dishonest traders. However, if we were to get directly
involved in people's trades, that could lead to all sorts of legal responsibility and liability issues. As a
volunteer, I'm just not willing to go there. Trading online with strangers, despite it's many benefits, is an
inherently risky activity. At least we're only dealing in little peices of plastic.
In any case, it's worth reporting this to WotC customer service. I'm sure they'd like to know about people
manufacturing counterfit versions of their products. And do let me know if you would like this trade listed as
being in dispute.
| |
Have: Cat; Want: Storm Giant
Champion of Anything Dragonlance
Before trading, please check the Disputed Trades Thread | |
|
robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 1:56 PM |
| I think the obvious first thing to do is for lyus and nasa to return the trades to one another. From there lyus can figure out what to do as I stated before. Unless nasa wants to take the fake card trade and call it his problem. If he accepts the Drizz't with the fake card then it becomes his problem and he can contact the person lyus got the Drizz't from or WotC customer service. Personally I'd just agree to return the trades and let the original owner of the Drizz't (lyus in this case) deal with it.
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
******************************************************************************************************************************************************
Successful trades with: Tickparasite, Iyceman, Faragdar The Wise's friend, avrivah, Drakkengi, brucemc, Krush, maniacal_mini_monger, hung4treason, Gandy, NarlethDrider, Kunimatyu, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah..... | |
|
nasamonkey
Warrior
296 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 6:10 PM |
| Thanks all.
Lyus has contacted the person he got the figure from and enquire about the origins of the card.
Too bad D&D minis has reached this point.
CHEERS,
~L
| |
~Copy and open the web addresses/references below in a new browser, i've no idea how to link it. Cheers~
~~~~~~
39 COMPLETED TRADES:-
http://maxminis.com/Trade/MyTrades/tabid/66/Default.aspx
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TRADING REFERENCES:-
http://maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/36/forumid/9/threadid/16807/scope/posts/Default.aspx | |
|
robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 6:44 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by nasamonkey
Thanks all.I think I'll stick with him replacing the card.
Great advise.Lyus has tried to contact the person he got the figure from and enquire about the origins of the card.
If I do email Wotc about the fake card, can I legally disclose who I got it from?
CHEERS,
~L
I'm not a lawyer so I can't advise you on that. I would suggest that Lyus contact WotC himself if he feels it's necessary since it was his purchase/trade.
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
******************************************************************************************************************************************************
Successful trades with: Tickparasite, Iyceman, Faragdar The Wise's friend, avrivah, Drakkengi, brucemc, Krush, maniacal_mini_monger, hung4treason, Gandy, NarlethDrider, Kunimatyu, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah..... | |
|