| Author | Messages | |
AnarionZelle
Underboss
1161 Posts
    
USA
 | | 04/02/2007 12:50 PM |
| I wanted to give this subject its own thread to prevent Scruffy Ranger's thread from being hijacked any further.
Most of you have your Unhallowed in, or at least have seen the majority of them in hand by now. I'm sure you have noticed that there are a few that seem out of scale with most previous minis to date (Cormyrian War Wizard, Vampire Hunter, Phalanx Soldier, and High Inquisitor are the ones I've seen so far), yet seem to be of the same scale in and of themselves. This subject came up during the last set (the Shadowdancer paticularly annoyed me), and I asked about it in the Ask WOTC thread. Shoe responded thusly:
Posted By AnarionZelle on 01/03/2007 6:16 PM What is (or was) the scale of our minis, and has it been changed (or moving toward a change) with the introduction of the new large bases? Thanks 
We actually started talking about it when we were looking at bases for the Icon dragons, and whether we wanted those to be round or square. We determined that having the square base for the icons was important, to make sure that the space the creature occupies would be accurately represented. When at Gen Con and Winter Fantasy (back in 2005), I watched a number of RPG and skirmish tables where Large miniatures weren't being used correctly - a Medium mini would be pushed into the Large creatures square; or more commonly two Large minis would occupy the same space (which is easy to do if they are offest by one diagonal square). So we went to 48mm so that the creatures would better fill the space they occupy.
We're not intentionally trying to increase our scale, and I'm pretty happy with the scale we've settled into over the past few and next few sets, with a couple of exceptions.
Pat asked about this at the last con, and received basically the same answer. Now in the answer above, Shoe says nothing specifically about the scale of medium miniatures being increased, rather focusing his response on large minatures. He also says that they are happy with scale over the past few sets and the next few, with a couple of exceptions.
So, since the minis that I mentioned above seem to be of the same scale, does that mean that the few that aren't (I'm assuming that all medium humanoids in Unhallowed are not of the larger scale) are the ones he is not happy with (i.e. smaller scale)?
I know that to some of you, being unhappy about the larger scale is being nit-picky, but to those of us who are, it is a major issue. | |
Completed Trades: Cha0tic g0od x2,IHawk x6,demagogue x5,jcnorris00,Sammael x3,Diomedes x3,Pan,Phoenix,samstephenson500,sage_raistlin,jai,simage,Lab Monkey x4,bugsy,Vulturedoodle,T-Bone,niolo,GreyOne,Kunimatyu,Mullins,ShivanWurm,berus316,Thenameless x3,Tysac,ksuvampire,Mama Cass,Metz,Zim x2,brucemc,Krush x3,Venport,RedneckDM,nycfarmkid,Corim Danex,Chad the DragonLordofAiur x2,Puggins,Izeya82 x2,Oryan77 x3,Zenako,Wayne,Vocenoctum1,Drakkengi,Username x2,lyus_sleyden,Cyberia,Star x2,xuthal x3,Qucalion of Celene x8,sam500 x2,Blob39,Keoki x2,hazel monday x3,emontedodger,Dargoth,Wraithborne,Anothermullen,Vrecknidj x4,Ghendar,Gunthar,shoesan,beurice,ckissee,kyrin,Khellrendros,GuJiaXian,Wolfgang,True_Blue,md3,stephengroy(MMT08),Teflon Jeff,GuJiaXian(MMT08),aries71,Count Dooku,Kat_Dawg33,oldben,TheChuck,hung4treason,relientKittenI I I I I I I I I I 0 I I I I I I I I I I Pending: Thenameless
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 04/02/2007 2:06 PM |
| | Thanks for reposting this answer. It's a good idea if this is going to come up again for everyone to be on the same page. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
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| Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11526 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 04/02/2007 2:22 PM |
| | I think it's been hit-and-miss as far as scale goes. The medium humans/humanoids are generally larger than their earlier brethren. The Werewolf Lord looks like he can pick up, and strangle with one hand, most any other tall large creature. On the other hand, the Gorgon seems a little small for something that more or less represents a bull - still a nice looking mini though. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3913 Posts
USA
| | 04/02/2007 3:23 PM |
| The one mini that IMO really really looks wacked out scale wise is the Werewolf Lord. Just too darn large. He's bigger than many Aspects.Â  
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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yack
Commander
3259 Posts
Gatineau Canada
| | 04/02/2007 5:26 PM |
| | werewolf lord is a monster so that doesn't bug me as much as the character/player/npc figs that seem to be from all different ranges. Yes not everyone is the same size but man there are some large humans. Grrrrr.... | |
Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
DW: Duergar Priest
RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
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SkYlyn3
Warrior
222 Posts
Williamsburg, Virginia
| | 04/02/2007 8:15 PM |
| | And one massive dwarf on a pig in Thundertusk Cavalry. | |
Champion of Mohrg
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AnarionZelle
Underboss
1161 Posts
USA
| | 04/03/2007 2:05 AM |
| Posted By yack on 04/02/2007 5:26 PM
werewolf lord is a monster so that doesn't bug me as much as the character/player/npc figs that seem to be from all different ranges. Yes not everyone is the same size but man there are some large humans. Grrrrr.... It's the humans that bother me the most as well. For some reason, the monstrous humanoids and creatures are easier for me to deal with (although the Duergar Slaver is pretty bad). I doubt I will ever buy a Werewolf Lord to see for myself, with the way folks are describing it.
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Completed Trades: Cha0tic g0od x2,IHawk x6,demagogue x5,jcnorris00,Sammael x3,Diomedes x3,Pan,Phoenix,samstephenson500,sage_raistlin,jai,simage,Lab Monkey x4,bugsy,Vulturedoodle,T-Bone,niolo,GreyOne,Kunimatyu,Mullins,ShivanWurm,berus316,Thenameless x3,Tysac,ksuvampire,Mama Cass,Metz,Zim x2,brucemc,Krush x3,Venport,RedneckDM,nycfarmkid,Corim Danex,Chad the DragonLordofAiur x2,Puggins,Izeya82 x2,Oryan77 x3,Zenako,Wayne,Vocenoctum1,Drakkengi,Username x2,lyus_sleyden,Cyberia,Star x2,xuthal x3,Qucalion of Celene x8,sam500 x2,Blob39,Keoki x2,hazel monday x3,emontedodger,Dargoth,Wraithborne,Anothermullen,Vrecknidj x4,Ghendar,Gunthar,shoesan,beurice,ckissee,kyrin,Khellrendros,GuJiaXian,Wolfgang,True_Blue,md3,stephengroy(MMT08),Teflon Jeff,GuJiaXian(MMT08),aries71,Count Dooku,Kat_Dawg33,oldben,TheChuck,hung4treason,relientKittenI I I I I I I I I I 0 I I I I I I I I I I Pending: Thenameless
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wicked cool
Underboss
2123 Posts
| | 04/03/2007 7:22 AM |
| i dont mind the sacle increase. the bigger goblins look much better than previous versions espcially the archon goblin. The battlerager looks great for a dwarf. The werewolf lord looks great imo but putting him next to othr werewolves releases does look a little strange. no melee reach 2 was silly. the tinys are great for the detail. displacer beat is 10x better than the old house cat. Id say give ten examples of size creep gone bad
1. Human commoner
2. dwarf barbarian-id like to see a battle of dwarf barbarians vs the werewolf lord
3. original halflings-they had no faces
4. original goblins-too small compared to kobolds
5. snig-big.
6. original bugbear-way too smal
7 original ghoul-too skinny and too small
8 celestial bear-too small
9 original displacer beast-too small
10 Elminstrer-a little on big side
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The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
Vindicated-CHAMPION of the INTELLECT DEVOURER
i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
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shoesan
Warrior
263 Posts
Beaufort, SC
| | 04/03/2007 8:53 AM |
| I think the original DB was perfect size. Its supposed to have a body of about 9 feet... that means the body should be a little less than the diameter of the base. It is... so I think its perfect. The new DB body is clearly longer than the diameter of the base. Its at least 11 - 12 feet long! I don't like that. I DO like the new one's pose better, but I ultimately prefer the Harb DB because it is the size it should be.
For fun, take the Elf Warmage mini and hold it next to Krusk the Barbarian... that's funny!
Shoe
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Shoe (the other one) | |
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PDK
Sneak
134 Posts
| | 04/03/2007 2:08 PM |
| Posted By wicked cool on 04/03/2007 7:22 AM
i dont mind the sacle increase. the bigger goblins look much better than previous versions espcially the archon goblin. The battlerager looks great for a dwarf. The werewolf lord looks great imo but putting him next to othr werewolves releases does look a little strange. no melee reach 2 was silly. the tinys are great for the detail. displacer beat is 10x better than the old house cat. Id say give ten examples of size creep gone bad
1. Human commoner
2. dwarf barbarian-id like to see a battle of dwarf barbarians vs the werewolf lord
3. original halflings-they had no faces
4. original goblins-too small compared to kobolds
5. snig-big.
6. original bugbear-way too smal
7 original ghoul-too skinny and too small
8 celestial bear-too small
9 original displacer beast-too small
10 Elminstrer-a little on big side
dont leave out the Red Samuria, he used to be way oversized for a human and was always the easiest piece to pick out. atleast now he has a few friends who also suffer from giantism | |
Champion of Manshoon of the Zhentarim
addict of orcs, ogres, and anything that smashes | |
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PaSquall
Underboss
1399 Posts
| | 04/03/2007 2:09 PM |
| | Ditto, the new DB is almost as large as a horse and it should be like a panther. Duh. | |
Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
| Professional Fan of DDM
Shoe
Sergeant
804 Posts
| | 04/03/2007 2:34 PM |
| There's some variance in height that we (meaning those of us in charge of this process) have to accept. We set expected heights as early as the sketch phase, and try to carry that through sculpt and the tooling of the mold -- but each phase introduces its own potential for skewing the final size. There are facts we know about the process, but also some variables -- for instance we know that the final plastic is usually about 5% smaller than a clay sculpt might be, but that 5% isn't exact.
Our human-height creatures, like humans, elves, kolyarut, etc, are intended to be about 32mm tall (top of head) - and that's been our intent for all sets for a while (meaning at least since Angelfire, not sure about earlier). But as noted, we've had a few that have ended up larger, and some smaller. It's also true that this may be a slightly larger scale than what was used for the first couple sets. So my initial comment from the reference above stands: we are happy with the scale we're using now, and with a few exceptions that scale is carried forth in our upcoming sets (we're not moving to 35mm, for instance).
One exception is a dwarf that ended up in Night Below. He's kinda big -- but he's very sensitive about it. (every time I see it I think of the scene in So I Married an Axe Murderer: "Hed! Moove!") A mini I wanted to include didn't make it, and so fathead got an unexpected promotion. I expect to hear plenty about it when NB releases. | |
Professional Fan of DDM | |
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AnarionZelle
Underboss
1161 Posts
USA
| | 04/03/2007 4:11 PM |
| Thanks for the response and elaboration, Shoe. It does help quite a bit to have it explained, and the parameters for the height of humanoids given. As the Vampire Hunter measures at 38-39 mm, it is clear that he and some of the others are anomalies. Although disappointed, I don't have so much of a problem with minis that didn't turn out as expected, as I do with an intentional change to a larger scale. I have been happy with quite a few minis since Angelfire, so my fears are calmed for now. I wouldn't presume to tell you how to do your job (as I know nothing about designing minis), but please keep scale in mind when you guys are designing new minis. For some of us who have been collecting since the beginning, it is important that the new minis look good when being used with the old.
Thanks | |
Completed Trades: Cha0tic g0od x2,IHawk x6,demagogue x5,jcnorris00,Sammael x3,Diomedes x3,Pan,Phoenix,samstephenson500,sage_raistlin,jai,simage,Lab Monkey x4,bugsy,Vulturedoodle,T-Bone,niolo,GreyOne,Kunimatyu,Mullins,ShivanWurm,berus316,Thenameless x3,Tysac,ksuvampire,Mama Cass,Metz,Zim x2,brucemc,Krush x3,Venport,RedneckDM,nycfarmkid,Corim Danex,Chad the DragonLordofAiur x2,Puggins,Izeya82 x2,Oryan77 x3,Zenako,Wayne,Vocenoctum1,Drakkengi,Username x2,lyus_sleyden,Cyberia,Star x2,xuthal x3,Qucalion of Celene x8,sam500 x2,Blob39,Keoki x2,hazel monday x3,emontedodger,Dargoth,Wraithborne,Anothermullen,Vrecknidj x4,Ghendar,Gunthar,shoesan,beurice,ckissee,kyrin,Khellrendros,GuJiaXian,Wolfgang,True_Blue,md3,stephengroy(MMT08),Teflon Jeff,GuJiaXian(MMT08),aries71,Count Dooku,Kat_Dawg33,oldben,TheChuck,hung4treason,relientKittenI I I I I I I I I I 0 I I I I I I I I I I Pending: Thenameless
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shazam01
Warrior
229 Posts
| | 04/03/2007 8:28 PM |
| Thanks for the response Shoe-it's always nice how you summarize things!
I'm interested to see this dwarf in NB, I really like "So I Married An Axe Murderer" wonder how big his "melon/planetoid" is?
Anyways I'm pleased with the minis overall & attempt to take things with a grain of salt-rarely is anything perfect. | |
Champion of Minsc & Boo
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 04/03/2007 9:10 PM |
| | Yes, thanks, Shoe. I appreciate the explanation. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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bossman
Sneak
85 Posts
| | 04/03/2007 11:17 PM |
| | A bigger melon than Eberk! I'm not an animal I'm just a big headed dwarf. | |
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yack
Commander
3259 Posts
Gatineau Canada
| | 04/04/2007 4:53 AM |
| thanks Shoe for the respond!
I might be in the low end here but I would almost take some of the down grade on sculpt just to have the scale perfect. This is for humans/elves/halfings/gnomes/dwarves.only. Scale is just that important in D&D. | |
Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
DW: Duergar Priest
RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
| Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6805 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 04/04/2007 7:29 AM |
| Shoe, thank you very much for the detailed response.
I am wondering why minis like the vampire hunter (38-39 mm) don't get rejected during the process when it's discovered that they have become too big? Can't steps be redone on minis with bad scale problems so that the scaling is corrected? Like resculpting it? I realize that this would raise the costs, but I have heard that certain minis are made and not included for various reasons, so rejection does occur on some level.
For example, why wasn't the big dwarf you are talking about sent back however many steps to get it right? Do you guys run out of time and have to accept some less favorable scaling issues because of deadlines for sets? | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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yack
Commander
3259 Posts
Gatineau Canada
| | 04/04/2007 7:53 AM |
| Good question Corim....!!!
Yes scale is more important to me then even the paint (I can paint but not make a mini smaller) | |
Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
DW: Duergar Priest
RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
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Wraithborne
Commander
4274 Posts
West Virginia
| | 04/04/2007 8:16 AM |
| | I'll bite and play Devil's Advocate. Scale just isn't much of a big deal to me. I actually like having monsters of different sizes. As for pc/npc figs, well there's me and then there's Manute Bol. Scale is much less an issue for me than paint. Having dubious skill at best with a brush, paint is by far and away my #1 concern. | |
Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say "Ni" at will to old ladies.
-Roger the Shrubber | |
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Nyarlathotep333
Warrior
283 Posts
Alaska
| | 04/04/2007 10:28 AM |
| Actually, the size(scale) of the minis does not bother me half as much as getting minis that overhang their bases to the point of being hard to use on a battle mat (RPG or Skirmish). Strahd is a great example of this overhang problem. While the sculpt is cool, it takes up almost 3 squares on the mat. It is hard to place another mini behind or in front of him. There are a few other minis that suffer from this as well. If I could make one recommendation to the WoTC folks it would be to please pay more attention to this.
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Demonweb Called Shot: Myconid
Feywild Called Shot: Wolf
Champion of the Zombie Black Dragon
- N333
The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair.
- Douglas Adams, Mostly Harmless
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!
- Conan the Barbarian, on what is best in life
My Website - Be sure to check out my painted minis gallery!
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| Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6805 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 04/04/2007 1:39 PM |
| Posted By Nyarlathotep333 on 04/04/2007 10:28 AM
Actually, the size(scale) of the minis does not bother me half as much as getting minis that overhang their bases to the point of being hard to use on a battle mat (RPG or Skirmish). Strahd is a great example of this overhang problem. While the sculpt is cool, it takes up almost 3 squares on the mat. It is hard to place another mini behind or in front of him. There are a few other minis that suffer from this as well. If I could make one recommendation to the WoTC folks it would be to please pay more attention to this.
When I say scale, I am also talking about overhang. It's hard to wrap up the whole concept into a couple of words. Sometimes the problem is height, but other times it's something else. The overall size gets far off what the thing is described as being in the book.
The centaur warhulk, for example, is basically an enlarged centaur on a large base compared to previous centaurs. This mini is 99.9% completely worthless to me as an RPGer. I suppose that I could buy a blank huge base and perform some surgery to get an enlarged centaur, but I don't like doing that. Especially with a rare.
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"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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Wraithborne
Commander
4274 Posts
West Virginia
| | 04/04/2007 1:54 PM |
| Posted By Corim Danex on 04/04/2007 1:39 PM
The centaur warhulk, for example, is basically an enlarged centaur on a large base compared to previous centaurs. This mini is 99.9% completely worthless to me as an RPGer. I suppose that I could buy a blank huge base and perform some surgery to get an enlarged centaur, but I don't like doing that. Especially with a rare.
I'll have to agree to disagree with you here. The Warhulk PrC adds +2 Str per level and for me is a pretty good representation. Of course I always thought older larges were too small as well, so take that for what you will. | |
Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say "Ni" at will to old ladies.
-Roger the Shrubber | |
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Nyarlathotep333
Warrior
283 Posts
Alaska
| | 04/04/2007 3:02 PM |
| Posted By Corim Danex on 04/04/2007 1:39 PM When I say scale, I am also talking about overhang. It's hard to wrap up the whole concept into a couple of words. Sometimes the problem is height, but other times it's something else. The overall size gets far off what the thing is described as being in the book.
The centaur warhulk, for example, is basically an enlarged centaur on a large base compared to previous centaurs. This mini is 99.9% completely worthless to me as an RPGer. I suppose that I could buy a blank huge base and perform some surgery to get an enlarged centaur, but I don't like doing that. Especially with a rare.
I don't mind the fact that minis like the Centaur Warhulk are larger, just that they overhang. As an RPGer myself I can overlook the fact that some minis have scale problems compared to others to a certain extent as long as they stay relatively within the boundaries of their own battlemat squares. A little overhang is OK, but it should still be possible to place other minis in all of the squares surrounding it. Strahd isn't hugely out of scale as far as the figure itself goes...just that it's cape looks like it was made out of ALL of the curtains in his keep put together... and it overhangs the front and back of the mini to the extent that you can't place another mini in either of those areas. I guess that for me, overhang and scale are two different problems. The way I define scale is more the aesthetics of how the mini looks compared to other minis. Overhanging minis can be a problem no matter what scale the mini is...a good example of this is the Bugbear Gang Leader. While this one isn't bad enough to cause a whole lot of problems on the battle mat, he does have his weapons extended to the extent that he sort of invades those spaces on either side of his square. Other than that, he seems to be right scale-wise. | |
Demonweb Called Shot: Myconid
Feywild Called Shot: Wolf
Champion of the Zombie Black Dragon
- N333
The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair.
- Douglas Adams, Mostly Harmless
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!
- Conan the Barbarian, on what is best in life
My Website - Be sure to check out my painted minis gallery!
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 04/04/2007 3:49 PM |
| It sounds like size is just an issue if you use it primarily for RPG (not for me, but from other comments). Is that true or is it an eroneous impression I'm getting from the comments so far.
From what Shoe has said, it seems that this is extremely difficult to correct when they see it occur. I'm not sure if this is a production secret that could be answered from WOTC, but would they have to correct the mold and scrap the whole run on the fig to fix a size issue? An oversized fig is not a random occurance so I'm assuming any rectification would be extremely costly. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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AnarionZelle
Underboss
1161 Posts
USA
| | 04/04/2007 5:08 PM |
| Posted By yack on 04/04/2007 4:53 AM
thanks Shoe for the respond!
I might be in the low end here but I would almost take some of the down grade on sculpt just to have the scale perfect. This is for humans/elves/halfings/gnomes/dwarves.only. Scale is just that important in D&D. Although this sentiment is unpopular to some folks, I agree with you 100%, yack!
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Completed Trades: Cha0tic g0od x2,IHawk x6,demagogue x5,jcnorris00,Sammael x3,Diomedes x3,Pan,Phoenix,samstephenson500,sage_raistlin,jai,simage,Lab Monkey x4,bugsy,Vulturedoodle,T-Bone,niolo,GreyOne,Kunimatyu,Mullins,ShivanWurm,berus316,Thenameless x3,Tysac,ksuvampire,Mama Cass,Metz,Zim x2,brucemc,Krush x3,Venport,RedneckDM,nycfarmkid,Corim Danex,Chad the DragonLordofAiur x2,Puggins,Izeya82 x2,Oryan77 x3,Zenako,Wayne,Vocenoctum1,Drakkengi,Username x2,lyus_sleyden,Cyberia,Star x2,xuthal x3,Qucalion of Celene x8,sam500 x2,Blob39,Keoki x2,hazel monday x3,emontedodger,Dargoth,Wraithborne,Anothermullen,Vrecknidj x4,Ghendar,Gunthar,shoesan,beurice,ckissee,kyrin,Khellrendros,GuJiaXian,Wolfgang,True_Blue,md3,stephengroy(MMT08),Teflon Jeff,GuJiaXian(MMT08),aries71,Count Dooku,Kat_Dawg33,oldben,TheChuck,hung4treason,relientKittenI I I I I I I I I I 0 I I I I I I I I I I Pending: Thenameless
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Dordledum
Commander
3393 Posts
Netherlands
| | 04/05/2007 2:21 AM |
| The worst scaling issue still has to be the Centaur War Hulk from Bloodwar, compare it to the Centaur Hero or the Harbinger Centaur: terrible!
Unhallowed isn't that bad though, I love the new D-beast for instance, much better scaled than the old.
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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Wraithborne
Commander
4274 Posts
West Virginia
| | 04/05/2007 2:50 AM |
| Posted By gss_000 on 04/04/2007 3:49 PM
It sounds like size is just an issue if you use it primarily for RPG (not for me, but from other comments). Is that true or is it an eroneous impression I'm getting from the comments so far.
I use mine primarily for RPG, but it appears I am the exception and not the rule. | |
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yack
Commander
3259 Posts
Gatineau Canada
| | 04/05/2007 4:23 AM |
| yes yes dear Wraith yes u are unlike AnarionZelle j/k
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Wraithborne
Commander
4274 Posts
West Virginia
| | 04/05/2007 5:29 AM |
| I can't speak for the DB's as I don't have either one of them, though I prefer the starving look of the older sculpt.
I think the Centaur Warhulk Should be much larger than his predecessors. He has 5 more Strength than the Hero and a whopping 10 more than the Harbinger Centaur. He absolutely should be larger in the same way that Lou Ferrigno is Absolutely larger than I am.
Another oft-used example is the Hill Giant Barbarian, but in rage he has 8 Str and 7 Con on his Archfiends counterpart. Why wouldn't he be a lot bigger?
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Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say "Ni" at will to old ladies.
-Roger the Shrubber | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3393 Posts
Netherlands
| | 04/05/2007 11:22 AM |
| Posted By Wraithborne on 04/05/2007 5:29 AM
I think the Centaur Warhulk Should be much larger than his predecessors. He has 5 more Strength than the Hero and a whopping 10 more than the Harbinger Centaur. He absolutely should be larger in the same way that Lou Ferrigno is Absolutely larger than I am.
I don't know this Lou guy but have you put the pieces I mentioned next to each other?Â
The War Hulk is almost two-and-a-half times as large as the other two. That's extreme.
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 04/05/2007 11:28 AM |
| I don't know this Lou guy but have you put the pieces I mentioned next to each other?�
Lou Ferrigno played the Hulk in the Incredible Hulk series from the 70s. A very big guy (used to bodybuild competitively) who often is at shows like DragonCon. | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3393 Posts
Netherlands
| | 04/05/2007 12:50 PM |
| Ah, that guy, he's quite tall I presume.
D. | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 04/05/2007 2:51 PM |
| | I wouldn't say Peter Mayhew (Chewbacca) tall, but he is quite large in all directions. | |
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Corim Danex
Warlord
6805 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 04/05/2007 2:53 PM |
| Posted By Wraithborne on 04/05/2007 5:29 AM
I can't speak for the DB's as I don't have either one of them, though I prefer the starving look of the older sculpt.
I think the Centaur Warhulk Should be much larger than his predecessors. He has 5 more Strength than the Hero and a whopping 10 more than the Harbinger Centaur. He absolutely should be larger in the same way that Lou Ferrigno is Absolutely larger than I am.
Another oft-used example is the Hill Giant Barbarian, but in rage he has 8 Str and 7 Con on his Archfiends counterpart. Why wouldn't he be a lot bigger?
Adding strength does not change your height. Or your length. It just adds mass. So, a beefed up centaur would be about the same height and have the same body length (horse part), but be massively bulked up. This is not what happened with the minis. Sure, there is more bulk there, but the most significant differences are in length. Working out does not typically equate to bone growth.
If a barbarian rages, he doesn't grow two feet and then shrink back down after the rage ends.
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Wraithborne
Commander
4274 Posts
West Virginia
| | 04/05/2007 5:00 PM |
| [snip]I'm just going to let my part rest at it matters a lot more to others than it does to me and I'm evidently way in the minority.
Also, thanks a lot Shoe, for making the large bases fit the squares better and, of course, for taking time to pay attention to our squabbles  . | |
Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say "Ni" at will to old ladies.
-Roger the Shrubber | |
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AnarionZelle
Underboss
1161 Posts
USA
| | 04/05/2007 7:54 PM |
| Well, I'm not trying to be unreasonable - I wouldn't fuss that much over an occasional oversized mini. I was more concerned that a scale change of humanoids had taken place. The reason why I've never purchased Mage Knight or Heroscape minis is because of the scale difference. Yet I wonder what the reaction would be if the upcoming Raistlin mini was of the same scale as the Vampire Hunter. That would be one occasional oversized mini that I would have a big problem with.
Oh, and I still love ya Wraith, even if you don't want to be like me  | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 04/05/2007 8:15 PM |
| Posted By Wraithborne on 04/05/2007 5:00 PM
[snip]I'm just going to let my part rest at it matters a lot more to others than it does to me and I'm evidently way in the minority.
This thread maybe, but I'm with you on this issue. But I can see why people get peeved. I was somewhat when I first saw it in Dragoneye, but realized I'd just make myself crazy worrying about it.
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nyjastul69
Commander
2711 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 04/06/2007 8:02 AM |
| Posted By gss_000 on 04/05/2007 8:15 PM Posted By Wraithborne on 04/05/2007 5:00 PM
[snip]I'm just going to let my part rest at it matters a lot more to others than it does to me and I'm evidently way in the minority. This thread maybe, but I'm with you on this issue. But I can see why people get peeved. I was somewhat when I first saw it in Dragoneye, but realized I'd just make myself crazy worrying about it.
I agree with both of you as well. Scale creep doesn't bother me. I'm also a fan of the larger bases. I'm used to having my opinion be in the minority. It's almost always that way for me here. | |
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Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7569 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 04/06/2007 2:17 PM |
| I'll fourth the motion, I'm not too worried about scale creep. There are a few size variances (the elf warmage is the next WNBA MVP) but they aren't too bad. Height and weight variances occur in every species (except warforged, I guess, but even different molds make different sizes) As long as the majority stay in the right height range, I'm cool with it.
As for the centaur debate, I think that the warhulk should be bigger. No, it wouldn't make him grow taller, but if he was already tall, it would fill him out a lot more.
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