DinoBen
Sergeant
412 Posts
    
Based outta Games of Berkeley, CA
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vanrulzz
Commander
2523 Posts
¯\(°_o)/¯
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iluvxtina
Underboss
1500 Posts
Spain
| | 03/12/2008 1:16 PM |
| | O.K. thanks for the link | |
LOVE THIS GIRL | |
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vanrulzz
Commander
2523 Posts
¯\(°_o)/¯
| | 03/12/2008 1:31 PM |
| notes:
Why isnt the CHAMPION of dol dorn a champion???
Guard of Mithril hall isnt a pile of turd anymore!
whats with the checkboxes next to all the chamion ratings??
Im liking the large gold...
They kept the 120 hp on the tiger!!!! and with 25 AC i can see it being played a lot (especially with rend)
No checkboxes next to Wulfgar's Glory in Battle :)
No paralyze for the mind flayer? can you say nerf?
thumbs up for noble salamander
HOLY CRAP I <3 JARL
*sigh* shadow drgon wasnt very nerfed... | | | |
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Sean-Khan
Commander
2720 Posts
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Sirohk
Commander
3913 Posts
USA
| | 03/12/2008 2:44 PM |
| Woot!Â
New stats for NB a day early. Way cool.Â
From a quick review:
LGD looks rock solid - AC 30
Lady Vol - AC 30 also, looks like a very strong titan, evil undead - pull in with Death Knight (does not leave room for much else, DK + Vol + 7 Farmers + 18 pts for?(Chillborn))
Frost Giant Jarl - Yow
Wulfgar - solid
Dread Wraith - looks a little better in 2.0, but 22 AC and 22 DEF look low, but effectively has 160 HP with Insubstantial, F8, and Phasing make this piece scary
Exarch of Tyrany - looks interesting, a lot of damage if based by a lot of creatures
Me a happy camper for tonight.Â
 Â Â | |
Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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iluvxtina
Underboss
1500 Posts
Spain
| | 03/12/2008 2:45 PM |
| | Yes,yes...a lot of critters have been improved.I specially like the gold dragon and frost giant | |
LOVE THIS GIRL | |
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Zyla
Underboss
1191 Posts
| | 03/12/2008 2:51 PM |
| Greater Basilisk is deadly now especially paird with the Eternal Blade  I wonder if the Hierophant and Basilisk was intentionally designed not to be used in the same warband to avoid a +19 petrify gaze | |
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Pedro
Commander
3926 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 03/12/2008 3:41 PM |
| Posted By Sirohk on 03/12/2008 2:44 PM Woot!Â
New stats for NB a day early. Way cool.Â
From a quick review:
LGD looks rock solid - AC 30
Lady Vol - AC 30 also, looks like a very strong titan, evil undead - pull in with Death Knight (does not leave room for much else, DK + Vol + 7 Farmers + 18 pts for?(Chillborn))
Frost Giant Jarl - Yow
Wulfgar - solid
Dread Wraith - looks a little better in 2.0, but 22 AC and 22 DEF look low, but effectively has 160 HP with Insubstantial, F8, and Phasing make this piece scary
Exarch of Tyrany - looks interesting, a lot of damage if based by a lot of creatures
Me a happy camper for tonight.Â
 Â
Two weeks late. | |
2007 & 2008 Czech Republic Champion
2008 Czech Republic's Player of the Year
2.0 Champion of Necromancers! (preferably not Evil:-))
Next Icon Called Shot: Baldur's Gate pack - Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc (and BOO!), Imoen, Xan, Sarevok...
Against the Giants Called Shot: Phoenix (/no luck)
Demonweb Called Shot: Yagnoloth (I like demons!)
Feywild Called Shot:
Starter 2009 Called Shot: | |
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Pedro
Commander
3926 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 03/12/2008 3:51 PM |
| | The large shadow looks powerful, as does Brass Golem, Jarl, Vol, Exarch, Gold Dragon, Wulfgar. | |
2007 & 2008 Czech Republic Champion
2008 Czech Republic's Player of the Year
2.0 Champion of Necromancers! (preferably not Evil:-))
Next Icon Called Shot: Baldur's Gate pack - Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc (and BOO!), Imoen, Xan, Sarevok...
Against the Giants Called Shot: Phoenix (/no luck)
Demonweb Called Shot: Yagnoloth (I like demons!)
Feywild Called Shot:
Starter 2009 Called Shot: | |
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SkYlyn3
Warrior
222 Posts
Williamsburg, Virginia
| | 03/12/2008 10:00 PM |
| | Jarl is amazing. He just might be playable. | |
Champion of Mohrg
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Wraithborne
Commander
4274 Posts
West Virginia
| | 03/12/2008 11:42 PM |
| Hopefully these will get picked apart quickly and the real version will be posted soon.
Mega kudos to WotC for now making it clear what is and isn't beta/final. That was pretty much my main complaint with how things were going....glad to see it get addressed. | |
Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say "Ni" at will to old ladies.
-Roger the Shrubber | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3913 Posts
USA
| | 03/13/2008 3:12 AM |
| More comments...
What happened to the Noble Sally? Really got hurt on the HP.Â
Clawborn Scorrow really got nerffed. Looks completely unplayable.Â
I'm liking the Large Shadow Dragon, with 3 possible Shadow Jumps, only 65 HP for a cost of 48 pts, not so good.Â
The Shadow looks nice. 30 HP with Insubstantial is effectively 60 HP for a cost of 17 pts. Too bad it cannot be pulled over into WB with Death Knight.Â
Brass Golem with its Powerful Charge looks solid. But low ATT.Â
Acadian Avenger looks interesting for 31 points, especially with the Dual Swords and Wrath.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Pedro
Commander
3926 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 03/13/2008 4:22 AM |
| | Sally's Fireburst is now a full attack action. Bad. | |
2007 & 2008 Czech Republic Champion
2008 Czech Republic's Player of the Year
2.0 Champion of Necromancers! (preferably not Evil:-))
Next Icon Called Shot: Baldur's Gate pack - Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc (and BOO!), Imoen, Xan, Sarevok...
Against the Giants Called Shot: Phoenix (/no luck)
Demonweb Called Shot: Yagnoloth (I like demons!)
Feywild Called Shot:
Starter 2009 Called Shot: | |
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warchanter
Sergeant
389 Posts
Italy
| | 03/13/2008 4:41 AM |
| From what I read on the WoTC boards (P. Lee), I fear the sets aren't built with the "grand scheme" in mind. It appears that many of the inconsistencies (in keywords and different wordings for the same abilities, for example) are due to the fact that Night below (and possibly DoD) stats were made without knowdlege of (at least) Against the giants cards. Which is, let me say it, abysmal. Also on those boards, it appears that Dungeons of Dread (and maybe Against the giants) were made when 4E rules (4E I hate you everyday more) and keywords were still in "beta", and that's why there are inconsistencies here and there. Will those cards be updated on-line when those sets come out, so to have at least all the sets consistent with each other? Or will we have to witness the same "kobold/reptilian or Blue wirmling/immune electricity" debacle all over again?
That brings to my other fear: are the converted minis playtested on the field? I don't thinks so. At best, they receive only a limited within-the-set playtest. No one seems to be willing to give a direct answer to this question.
So, will DDM2 be a fresh start for the line or turn out to be a mess before it even starts? We'll see.
PS: that being said, i think P. Lee is doing his best to try and improve our game. He is also the most community-friendly WoTC employee to date, and that is great.
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Nexxstalker on WoTC Boards | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3393 Posts
Netherlands
| | 03/13/2008 5:35 AM |
| downloaded...printed...cutting out tonight...playing tomorrow...
Thanks!
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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Llarbal
Skirmisher
38 Posts
| | 03/13/2008 6:20 AM |
| Posted By warchanter on 03/13/2008 4:41 AM
That brings to my other fear: are the converted minis playtested on the field? I don't thinks so. At best, they receive only a limited within-the-set playtest. No one seems to be willing to give a direct answer to this question.
Since this is a Beta version I think we, the community will do the majority of playtesting. If stats are out of range or wordings are odd, it most likely will be fixed.
Overall I think this set is looking great, both in terms (lack of) obvious mistakes, and also in terms of power and interesting abilities. I think I like the 2.0 stats for Night Below more than I did the 1.0 stats:-). more creatures seem powerful enough to have a place in the meta, which is a good thing.
Please feel free to take my opinion with a grain of salt, since I have played only 7 games sofar. But we'll meet again tomorrow Dordledum!!
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Proud member of the Bearded Devils | |
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FriendlyAlienist
Sneak
101 Posts
Finland
| | 03/13/2008 6:29 AM |
| >>> If stats are out of range or wordings are odd, it most likely will be fixed.
Well, if they didn't fix Eternal blade, they won't fix stats no matter how wrong they are. My 2 cents (3 cents in US currency).
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Champion of Gibbering Abomination, Knight of All Things Aberrant | |
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lingster
Sergeant
778 Posts
| | 03/13/2008 7:50 AM |
| I'm not liking a few things...
Most notably, the fact that alignments are not right on some of them. the Drow are NOT evil? why?? Orcs not evil? Frost Giant jarl not evil? and NOT UNIQUE? Undead not evil?
Trained carrion Crawler should be a MOUNT! It's got a saddle sheeze.
Looks like the prisoner can only move 5 spaces and that's it. Since it can't take an attack action, it can't trade the attack action in for a move action. so it only moves 5. PERIOD.
Greater Bahrgest a goblin type?
I'm sure I'll find more.
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May you find peace and happiness at the hand of Hextor.
Champion of Black Pudding
Called Shot Desert of Desolation: Drider - VINDICATED!
Called Shot Demonweb: Drow Cleric of Lloth
Called Shot FeyWild: Water Nymph (06-26-08)
Member of Team Millennium
4E takes away our Big Bad Evil Guy (BBEG) and give us this:
The Big Bad Mis-Understood But Not Quite Inherently Evil Who Does Naughty Things Guy (BBMUBNQIEWDNTG for short) | |
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Llarbal
Skirmisher
38 Posts
| | 03/13/2008 8:12 AM |
| Posted By FriendlyAlienist on 03/13/2008 6:29 AM
>>> If stats are out of range or wordings are odd, it most likely will be fixed.
Well, if they didn't fix Eternal blade, they won't fix stats no matter how wrong they are. My 2 cents (3 cents in US currency).
We'll see with this set if the Eternal Blade needs fixing. Even the eternal blade and allies will have trouble hitting the Jarl consistently or the Large Gold dragon
Not that I think the Eternal Blade needs fixing. It is very powerful yes, but not broken. Why fix it?
As I said before, I havent played many games yet, but I'd say a tri EB band is vulnerable to area attacks that target DEF, like the Driders' for example. If you can activate 3 creatures as you take the first turn of round (Delver Sergeant), you might be able to do serious damage to the EB's and strip off all bodyguards in any case.
I'm not sure if it would work, but that's one of the thoughts I had... | |
Proud member of the Bearded Devils | |
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Llarbal
Skirmisher
38 Posts
| | 03/13/2008 8:19 AM |
| Posted By lingster on 03/13/2008 7:50 AM
Trained carrion Crawler should be a MOUNT! It's got a saddle sheeze.
Looks like the prisoner can only move 5 spaces and that's it. Since it can't take an attack action, it can't trade the attack action in for a move action. so it only moves 5. PERIOD.
Trained Carrion as a mount would be a good idea. Maybe this should be in a cardtext comments thread. It could have been forgotten.
The prisoner: You can always put him on a warhorse, this counts as adjacent now. However I too am curious if it can or can't take a double move action. I don't have the rules right here, but if the rules state in a straightforward way that a creature can take two move actions (within any reference to ' trading an attack action for a move action' or something similar), I bet he can take two move actions. He just can't use anything that requires an attack action.
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Proud member of the Bearded Devils | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3393 Posts
Netherlands
| | 03/13/2008 8:37 AM |
| IIRC lingster is correct. the rulebook says something under attack action like: option #x: make a move action.
ps. the Jarl should not be unique. it's a title, like king. You can have multiple Jarls, even though they would probably not like to share power.
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3393 Posts
Netherlands
| | 03/13/2008 8:42 AM |
| Posted By Llarbal on 03/13/2008 6:20 AM
Please feel free to take my opinion with a grain of salt, since I have played only 7 games sofar. But we'll meet again tomorrow Dordledum!!
Yep, see ya tomorrow for our next 2.0 training session, we'll make it Night Below Sealed. For completeness' sake: I'm the Padawan in this team :)
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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Llarbal
Skirmisher
38 Posts
| | 03/13/2008 9:14 AM |
| | The force is strong in this one... | |
Proud member of the Bearded Devils | |
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neilasaurus
Sneak
134 Posts
| | 03/13/2008 9:32 AM |
| Posted By FriendlyAlienist on 03/13/2008 6:29 AM
>>> If stats are out of range or wordings are odd, it most likely will be fixed.
Well, if they didn't fix Eternal blade, they won't fix stats no matter how wrong they are. My 2 cents (3 cents in US currency).
Not true, they changed the stats on at least one fig, the Farmer. | |
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Temperance
Sergeant
522 Posts
| | 03/13/2008 12:44 PM |
| This is incorrect, I definitely have knowledge of the other sets and future designs do have a grand scheme in mind. What you are referring to is that I didn't have time at the moment to look up the status of keywords on the Against the Giants threads. We are willing to make changes if we feel it's better for the game. I don't expect any future updates with Dungeons of Dread or Against the Giants cards, but never say never, of course. | |
Champion of the common Flying Monkey (Fez optional)
Peter Lee on the WotC board
BAD WOLF
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fenrishero
Sneak
63 Posts
| | 03/13/2008 12:46 PM |
| Just my quick thoughts without playtesting:
Champion of Dol Dorn: Still a beast.
Dire Tiger: A lot of HP and a lot of AC, but I get the nagging suspicion that his damage output is a little on the low side for 60 points.
Hierophant of the Seventh Wind: Beasts and Elementals are going to be a lot more varied in the new sets. That said, 47 for a squishy backline champion is a bit on the hefty side.
Dread Wraith: Still not compelling, but insubstantial gives it an extended lifespan, so maybe it'll see play one day.
Greenspawn Zealot: Now it's an interesting tech piece. Decent Attack, an interesting secondary attack that can shut down pieces that rely on non-basic attacks, re-roll a save on itself, and it Crusade ability now affects ALL dragons. This guy is a little on the expensive side, but he has great synergy.
Earth/Ice Mephit: For two pieces costing the same amount of points, these pieces have vastly different playability. The earth mephit has a +4 vs. Def single use attack, while the ice mephit is a toobox of damage and delay.
Lady Vol: Utter garbage. Hard to kill, but why would you waste the time?
Noble Salamander: HP got nerfed big time, and I don't really think he has nearly as much damage output as before.
Lifeleech Otyugh: Now has the Beast keyword, and a couple of interesting attacks. Might be worth a second look, though its def and followup attack are kind of weak.
Babau: Still a neat piece. Touch to hit, can generate ongoing damage, and with it's damage shield. Good value for 29 points.
Dracotaur Rager: From meh to Maybe. Decent defensive values and HP, a double attack , a decent 'breath weapon' that recharges and fast. Teamed with a Eternal Blade or Greenspawn Zealot, this guy could put out some serious pain.
Frost Giant Jarl: Ow. Definitely worth 102 points.
Large Shadow Dragon: Only problem is that it's HP is kind of low. Other then that, a very sneaky piece.
Creatures that seem to have gotten better (Maybe not tournament playable, but competitive): Guard of Mithril Hall, Guardian Naga, Valiant Calvary, Skeletal Courser, Krenshar, Large Chaos Beast, Kuo-Toa Whip | |
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Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6805 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 03/13/2008 12:58 PM |
| Posted By Temperance on 03/13/2008 12:44 PM This is incorrect, I definitely have knowledge of the other sets and future designs do have a grand scheme in mind. What you are referring to is that I didn't have time at the moment to look up the status of keywords on the Against the Giants threads. We are willing to make changes if we feel it's better for the game. I don't expect any future updates with Dungeons of Dread or Against the Giants cards, but never say never, of course.
While I am a RPGer who does not skirmish, and the skirmish stats and cards don't have much direct impact on me, I just wanted to say that I am deeply grateful for how much you are reaching out to the community and discussing things quite openly with us. It means a lot to me.
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"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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Pedro
Commander
3926 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 03/13/2008 1:07 PM |
| Posted By lingster on 03/13/2008 7:50 AM
I'm not liking a few things...
Most notably, the fact that alignments are not right on some of them. the Drow are NOT evil? why?? Orcs not evil? Frost Giant jarl not evil? and NOT UNIQUE? Undead not evil?
Trained carrion Crawler should be a MOUNT! It's got a saddle sheeze.
Looks like the prisoner can only move 5 spaces and that's it. Since it can't take an attack action, it can't trade the attack action in for a move action. so it only moves 5. PERIOD.
Greater Bahrgest a goblin type?
I'm sure I'll find more.
Seconding the mount on Crawler. It would be cool:)
I hope the Prisoner will get fixxed to be able to move 10.
I noticed the Barghest, too. Is it a mistake?
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2007 & 2008 Czech Republic Champion
2008 Czech Republic's Player of the Year
2.0 Champion of Necromancers! (preferably not Evil:-))
Next Icon Called Shot: Baldur's Gate pack - Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc (and BOO!), Imoen, Xan, Sarevok...
Against the Giants Called Shot: Phoenix (/no luck)
Demonweb Called Shot: Yagnoloth (I like demons!)
Feywild Called Shot:
Starter 2009 Called Shot: | |
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warchanter
Sergeant
389 Posts
Italy
| | 03/13/2008 2:33 PM |
| Posted By Temperance on 03/13/2008 12:44 PM This is incorrect, I definitely have knowledge of the other sets and future designs do have a grand scheme in mind. What you are referring to is that I didn't have time at the moment to look up the status of keywords on the Against the Giants threads. We are willing to make changes if we feel it's better for the game. I don't expect any future updates with Dungeons of Dread or Against the Giants cards, but never say never, of course.
My bad, I misread the post on the official boards. That still leaves other questions open but thanks for sharing. :) | |
Nexxstalker on WoTC Boards | |
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Fun Guy from Yuggoth
Cthulhufnord
Warlord
10985 Posts
Umass Amherst Baby!
| | 03/13/2008 10:11 PM |
| Neat! 
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Pathetic Earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void - without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe - anything at all - you would have hidden from it in terror. | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3393 Posts
Netherlands
| | 03/14/2008 5:45 AM |
| from wiki:
A barghest can take the form of a wolf or a goblin, though its natural form is a hybrid of both.
Type: outsider
maybe they got confused here,
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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XAos
Underboss
2395 Posts
London
| | 03/15/2008 6:41 AM |
| Posted By fenrishero on 03/13/2008 12:46 PM
Greenspawn Zealot: Now it's an interesting tech piece. Decent Attack, an interesting secondary attack that can shut down pieces that rely on non-basic attacks, re-roll a save on itself, and it Crusade ability now affects ALL dragons. This guy is a little on the expensive side, but he has great synergy.
Large Shadow Dragon: Only problem is that it's HP is kind of low. Other then that, a very sneaky piece.
Greenspawn Zealot - Crusade;
This doesn't have a defined duration, so until erraterd it defaults to end of next activation... not worth a 33pt figure.
Large shadow Dragon; Who needs Hit points if the enemy warband is dead before it can activate.
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Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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MAURIZIO
Sergeant
948 Posts
Lima, Perú
| | 03/15/2008 10:47 AM |
| Posted By XAos on 03/15/2008 6:41 AM Posted By fenrishero on 03/13/2008 12:46 PM
Greenspawn Zealot: Now it's an interesting tech piece. Decent Attack, an interesting secondary attack that can shut down pieces that rely on non-basic attacks, re-roll a save on itself, and it Crusade ability now affects ALL dragons. This guy is a little on the expensive side, but he has great synergy.
Large Shadow Dragon: Only problem is that it's HP is kind of low. Other then that, a very sneaky piece.
Large shadow Dragon; Who needs Hit points if the enemy warband is dead before it can activate.
Totally agree with you!!!
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Againts the Giants Called Shot: Cattie Bri.
Dungeon of Dread Called Shot: Cockatrice.
Todas las batallas en la vida sirven para enseñarnos algo, inclusive aquellas que perdemos. Paulo Coehlo
"DnD teaches you a valuable lesson, always loot the bodies of your dead enemies"
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