rgrayua
Sergeant
400 Posts
    
 | | 04/15/2005 9:40 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zippy
To avoid penalizing for high Command rating, we let you CHOOSE to add or not add your commander bonus. Then you remove the "High command rating penalty" without creating an exploitable loophole with rally/heal and rally/move effects in play. On the role playing side, the commander wants his unit to run back a bit and does not step in with direction / commands to change the unit's urges.
That sounds like a workable compromise to me. | |
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tullywi
Sergeant
982 Posts
| | 04/15/2005 5:10 PM |
| jjbeezer said: quote:
tully: I meant WHEN. That way it has to go a while as just a normal commander until he can benefit. It is not much of a benefit, but it will give you a reason to keep leveling a Lt.
You can put this in for a bonus feat. I don't see it being used though. The highest Lts out there now are only level 2. It will take 5 victories with those Lts surviving to get to 5th level. The willing to follow only applies to commanders with higher ratings though. So, this Lt would have a difficult time using this feat if he becomes a commander himself. The reason to keep leveling is to to get a better unit for the same cost. | |
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tullywi
Sergeant
982 Posts
| | 04/15/2005 5:46 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zippy
To avoid penalizing for high Command rating, we let you CHOOSE to add or not add your commander bonus. Then you remove the "High command rating penalty" without creating an exploitable loophole with rally/heal and rally/move effects in play. On the role playing side, the commander wants his unit to run back a bit and does not step in with direction / commands to change the unit's urges.
I wouldn't be in favor or this. Now, my commander levels don't help at all with the decision. So, a CE warband becomes much more likely to stay in place and an LG warband only benefits if he wants to stay?
If you want to inject some randomness to the rule, how about allowing the Commander Rating to count against the unit. So, a unit normally makes its morale check at +6. The commander has a rating of +3. Assuming the unit is under command, the commander can negatively affect the morale check and lower it to +3 if they want. In this case, I would make a roll of a natural 20 an automatic morale save.
Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with the rule as it stands now. I've taken advantage of it in earlier matches, but I find it harder and harder to justify as I progress. Usually, my units are getting based by multiple units (because my opponent has more activations than me) and are just starting to do some real damage when the MC comes. In these cases, the last thing I want to do is run. That last time I remember having one of my units route was against rgrayua. I rolled a 1 on my MC with my Cleric of Lathander. It was the last thing I wanted him to do. Also, if I really really don't want someone's unit to fail a morale check, I make sure I move something to base the unit before I force the morale check. I think it is a good practice in RL games too. | |
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jjbeezer
Sergeant
633 Posts
| | 04/15/2005 6:28 PM |
| Willing to follow allows a commander to benefit from the commander effect of other commanders. Once a Lt. reaches level 2, they gain Commander 0 and can no longer benefit from commander effects. My suggestion would be to allow a Lt. (who cannot take any warlord feats at levels 5, 7, and 9) to gain Willing to Follow at level 5.
It would be very hard for a Lt to reach level 5, but this would be a nice reward if they did reach that point. If they set out on their own to be a full fledge Warlord, Willing to Follow could go away or (as you mention tullywi) it would not have much effect. | |
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tullywi
Sergeant
982 Posts
| | 04/15/2005 6:46 PM |
| | Oh, you are saying that it wouldn't be a feat that you would have to pick, it would come as part of being level 5. I get it, but I think it would be too powerful if someone actually got there. Take a Warforged Fighter with 50 extra hit points and let him gain the Couatl's commander effect? That doesn't sound fair in a 16 point unit. | |
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Zippy
Underboss
1993 Posts
Whitewater, WI
| | 04/16/2005 4:25 PM |
| To avoid penalizing for high Command rating, we let you CHOOSE to add or not add your commander bonus. Then you remove the "High command rating penalty" without creating an exploitable loophole
...
If you want to inject some randomness to the rule, how about allowing the Commander Rating to count against the unit. So, a unit normally makes its morale check at +6. The commander has a rating of +3. Assuming the unit is under command, the commander can negatively affect the morale check and lower it to +3 if they want. In this case, I would make a roll of a natural 20 an automatic morale save.
...
Tullywi, your proposal would also be acceptable. The current rule is a farse imho, since a unit that routs is not in direct control of that decision - they are paniced / fleeing, not deciding it's a good time to fall back. Having the decision on a case by case basis apply either positive or negative CMD (if under command) is reasonable, with 1 and 20 being auto fail/save as usual. | |
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galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 04/17/2005 4:56 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by jjbeezer
A few more items to debate or change.
We added a new druid Level 1 spell called Charm Animal. Its discription is the same as the Collar of Command on the treasure table: animal or magical beast loses its difficult ability. Since the collar of command was introduced in the Miniatures Handbook before the Wild ability came out, I suggest we change the spell and the Collar to account for difficult and wild.
Will do.
quote:
Originally posted by jjbeezer
Another strange thing I noticed just now, in table 1-12 Medium Powers, the Minor Acid, Cold, Electricity, and Sonic resistance is Resist 10 while the Minor Fire resistance is only Resist 5.
I did this on purpose, but if most people think I should change it I will. The reasoning is that I want the items to be of similar power, and I would argue that Resist 5 Fire is just as, if not more useful than Resist 10 sonic, as Fire damage is so much more common than all the others.
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jjbeezer
Sergeant
633 Posts
| | 04/17/2005 6:28 PM |
| | My guess was that the -5 fire was because fire seems to be the most common energy type to run into. I am fine with leaving it at -5 for the reason you gave, but since it was different I thought I would ask. | |
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lurch_E_bean
Underboss
1058 Posts
| | 04/19/2005 7:01 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by jjbeezer
Another strange thing I noticed just now, in table 1-12 Medium Powers, the Minor Acid, Cold, Electricity, and Sonic resistance is Resist 10 while the Minor Fire resistance is only Resist 5.
That was a bit annoying, especially last week when my Aspect of Nerull with a Belt of Minor Fire resistance still got railed by two gauths. I suppose I understand, resist 10 fire is a lot more powerful than resist 10 cold or acid, but then again, it's hard to say that all the medium powers are of equal power. Look at the Proof against Poison and shielding powers and see how they stack up to the other medium powers.
Another thing to note, Etherealness is both a medium and major power. That doesn't seem right. | |
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galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 04/20/2005 1:56 PM |
| Another rule for discussion brought up by angryirish and jjbeezer:
"I gave the summons that possibly meet the requirements of being a Lt. some thought last night. My personal thought was they would not qualify since they were not there from the start and they are just summons creatures.
However, the Eternal Campaign Rules put the qualificiations for a Lt. as: Warlords may choose any creature as a lieutenant who has no Commander rating or a Commander rating equal to or less than the warlord, has an Intelligence of 8 or higher, does not have the Difficult or Incited special ability, and is 35 points or less.
To me this opens a summons up to qualify for Lt., if it meets the rest of the requirements. And, since the point cost for the Lt. does not increase, the Lt. would still be summonable. Personally, this is a fairly scary thought. If anyone would like to discuss this idea further, lets do it in the FAQ thread." -jjb
My thoughts.... I don't know, jjb is right in that as it stands now there is no reason you can't do this.
I have not used summoning very often so I'm not sure how much of an impact this has.
Is it possible to summon Unique creatures? Because I was thinking of giving each Lt the Unique special ability, which may prevent them from being summoned.
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galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 04/20/2005 2:03 PM |
| Hey guys, one of the bases for the Magic Item tables is that each of the minor/medium/major items are similar in strength to others of the same type.
If there are any that stand out as not being this way I would appreciate if you could point them out so I can adjust the tables.
I realize this is difficult because an item's use is so dependant on faction and scenario... but overall I would like them to be as even as possible.
First thing to check is: which item does everyone say, "Awe, crap, not another XXXXXX"....? | |
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jjbeezer
Sergeant
633 Posts
| | 04/20/2005 2:40 PM |
| I know the Mini's game and the RPG are similar but not the same. A quick inspection of the SRD shows that the skeleton and zombie templates remove a creatures intelegence score. This rules them out of Lt. status (That is unless they published an Int score greater than 8 on the back of the card). (Int of - is less than 8) However, undead such as a Wight or Ghoul both have listed Int scores above 8.
This information rules out AngryIrish getting a Lt. from this battle. However, in the future, it would be possible. Also, Tullywi (LG) has Planar Ally, Lesser which allows him to summon a Bariaur Ranger who would also qualify to be a Lt.
Most animals will have an Int less than 8. Many of the outsiders have above that score, including the 5 point Azer Raider.
All of that to say: This could become an issue so please weigh in with your thoughts. | |
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tullywi
Sergeant
982 Posts
| | 04/20/2005 9:19 PM |
| | I would vote against being able to summon a lt. It doesn't make sense to me. Just for example, I could wait until the last round and summon the unit to give it the points. | |
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lurch_E_bean
Underboss
1058 Posts
| | 04/20/2005 10:38 PM |
| I vote Lieutenants should have to start in play as well (unless it's a planewalking xill or something like that).
I'm not sure what is meant by giving Lieutenants the Unique ability. If that means you can only have one of the type of piece your Lieutenant is, then I don't like that idea. A Lieutenant sometimes ends up being a fodder piece that you want to have multiples of. I think most good pieces under 35 points end up getting run in multiples, though, and those are the ones you want to become Lieutenants. | |
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Zippy
Underboss
1993 Posts
Whitewater, WI
| | 04/21/2005 1:44 AM |
| | My vote: change Lt. requirement wording to "entire battle" instead of battle. That allows minions but not summons to gain Lt. status. | |
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galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 04/21/2005 3:40 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by lurch_E_bean
I'm not sure what is meant by giving Lieutenants the Unique ability.
I mean that there is only one Alric the Glorious Inspiring Marshal is unique and you could never have 2x Alric the Glorious Inspiring Marshals just like you couldn't have 2x Drizzts.... you could still have other inspiring marshals, just as you could have other drow rangers.
Actually, Commanders can't be summoned anyway, though that would only take effect after Lt Level 2. | |
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AngryIrish
Warrior
313 Posts
| | 04/21/2005 1:06 PM |
| | I would vote that LTs can't be summoned. I never played RPG and am just a skirmish guy, but summoning to me was always kinda creating a new creature each time, or if brought from somewhere, it was random. | |
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galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 04/21/2005 6:21 PM |
| So how does tullywi's compromise sound?
"A commander may choose whether his Commander rating counts positively or negatively towards a friendly creature's morale check." | |
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Zippy
Underboss
1993 Posts
Whitewater, WI
| | 04/21/2005 9:29 PM |
| | VOTE THUMBS UP on the "choose to apply commander rating as positive or negative for MC's" rule, to replace voluntary mc fails! | |
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lurch_E_bean
Underboss
1058 Posts
| | 04/22/2005 3:40 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by galneweinhaw
I mean that there is only one Alric the Glorious Inspiring Marshal is unique and you could never have 2x Alric the Glorious Inspiring Marshals just like you couldn't have 2x Drizzts.... you could still have other inspiring marshals, just as you could have other drow rangers.
That seems implied, if not by the rules, then just by common sense. Unless you're talking about only having one Lt. of a specific mini, like you could have Lt. Dingle, Goblin Skirmisher, but not Lt. Dangle, Goblin Skirmisher, too.
Also, I have a question about an item I just got. I got a +1 shield of fireballs, and my question is after I use the two fireballs, do I have nothing left or a +1 shield? If I have a +1 shield, could that now be considered a minor item that I could trade in? | |
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AngryIrish
Warrior
313 Posts
| | 04/22/2005 3:40 PM |
| Question on support troops.
Does it have to be only 1 figure or can you use the points between as many figs as you can?
And i also assume that they are in addition to the size band. What i mean is that if you had 12 points of support and it was a 125 match, you couldn't do thaskor and flesh golem as your band(why would you anyway, but just for instance). | |
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lurch_E_bean
Underboss
1058 Posts
| | 04/22/2005 3:47 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by AngryIrish
Question on support troops.
Does it have to be only 1 figure or can you use the points between as many figs as you can?
And i also assume that they are in addition to the size band. What i mean is that if you had 12 points of support and it was a 125 match, you couldn't do thaskor and flesh golem as your band(why would you anyway, but just for instance).
I'm fairly confident that it can be as many troops as you want (I think they still count against the 12 fig limit, though). They are definitely seperate points, not just added to your total. You also can't run a Thaskor and Flesh Golem because you need a warlord, and that Flesh Golem is going to be confused as hell. | |
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AngryIrish
Warrior
313 Posts
| | 04/22/2005 3:50 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by lurch_E_bean
quote:
Originally posted by AngryIrish
Question on support troops.
Does it have to be only 1 figure or can you use the points between as many figs as you can?
And i also assume that they are in addition to the size band. What i mean is that if you had 12 points of support and it was a 125 match, you couldn't do thaskor and flesh golem as your band(why would you anyway, but just for instance).
I'm fairly confident that it can be as many troops as you want (I think they still count against the 12 fig limit, though). They are definitely seperate points, not just added to your total. You also can't run a Thaskor and Flesh Golem because you need a warlord, and that Flesh Golem is going to be confused as hell.
Yeah, i know that. It was a bad example. Pretty much the rule is, build a ###pt warband, and then add the support, correct?
Also, another question(hehe). My grim necro starts at Spell Progress 5. After 5 levels in spell progression he is at the max of 10. Does this mean he can't take anymore spell progress levels, or does it just cycle again? | |
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lurch_E_bean
Underboss
1058 Posts
| | 04/22/2005 3:59 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by AngryIrish
Yeah, i know that. It was a bad example. Pretty much the rule is, build a ###pt warband, and then add the support, correct?
Yeah, that's right.
quote:
Also, another question(hehe). My grim necro starts at Spell Progress 5. After 5 levels in spell progression he is at the max of 10. Does this mean he can't take anymore spell progress levels, or does it just cycle again?
Good question. However I'd think you'd have more spells than you could cast in a match if you kept going. Also, I'd think working regular levels would be a good idea, especially with the Grim Necro. At level 5, he may have enough spells to destroy the world, but he only has 45 HP. I'd want to pump him up with some +10 HP levels at some point.
So to answer your question, I don't know. [:P] | |
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Zippy
Underboss
1993 Posts
Whitewater, WI
| | 04/22/2005 9:12 PM |
| When I asked galneweinhaw about support troops, he indicated it just added to your point total for warband, rather than being separate creatures with a total of the exact support points. Hmmm, not sure how this is intended. On one hand this is borrowed from a somewhat different handicap system in MHB p112, and could just be loosely borrowed wording, since EC uses a very different warband building system. On the other hand, it is presented as "troops" not points for parts of units.
1) Support troop points are separate creatures or not?
2) Support troops count toward the 12 creatue limit or not?
My votes:
1) Points are part of the pool - simplicity and better power balancing
2) do count toward the 12 creature limit
Any EC vets clear up how the support troop rule has been applied? | |
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galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 04/22/2005 11:11 PM |
| Support Troops
They work just as described in the MHB:
"Support troops are not counted when determining how many creatures can be in your warband, nor do they score victory points for enemies who eliminate them. Support troops cannot be commanders. You may not reconfigure your warband when you add support troops. The X points are spent seperately on creatures..." | |
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Zippy
Underboss
1993 Posts
Whitewater, WI
| | 04/22/2005 11:29 PM |
| | Thanks for the clarification on support troops! | |
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tullywi
Sergeant
982 Posts
| | 04/23/2005 12:07 AM |
| AngryIrish,
You can still keep going with spells. My Cleric of Lathander is currently at Spell Progression Level 12. I'm not sure what is going to happen when he hits 5th level spells. Once you reach 10th level, the progression continues with the next spells in the list. I believe spell progression level 10 is 1st level spells. Spell progression 11 is a 2nd level spell, etc. | |
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AngryIrish
Warrior
313 Posts
| | 04/23/2005 1:31 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by tullywi
AngryIrish,
You can still keep going with spells. My Cleric of Lathander is currently at Spell Progression Level 12. I'm not sure what is going to happen when he hits 5th level spells. Once you reach 10th level, the progression continues with the next spells in the list. I believe spell progression level 10 is 1st level spells. Spell progression 11 is a 2nd level spell, etc.
Awesome. Probably won't go that far, but its good to know. | |
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rgrayua
Sergeant
400 Posts
| | 04/24/2005 9:56 PM |
| | A couple of weeks ago, we had a question about who can use Magic Items. The Miniatures Handbook provides that a creature can only use Magic Armor or a Magic Shield if they already were using Armor or a Shield. This rule also assumes a humanoid type creature, it says some types may not be able to use certain magic items at all. Since we are following all MHB rules unless otherwise specified, I assume this is our rule as well. How do you determine if a creature has armor? The possessions stat on the role playing side of the card? If this is our rule, is there an exception for Warlords? Very few creatures have Shields, so this could make a Magic Shield fairly useless. | |
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Zippy
Underboss
1993 Posts
Whitewater, WI
| | 04/24/2005 11:48 PM |
| I like the current option: either trade in your shield for a better item or build your band to exploit the items you have.
Every faction has a shield carrying low point (3pt) unit.
Every faction has a shield carrying unit in the 20-25 pt range.
Every faction has a shield carrying unit in the 50-55 pt range.
MHB goes into detail on p113 about magic item assigning and yes, the RPG side must list shield as a possession for a creature to use a shield. | |
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galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 04/25/2005 12:57 AM |
| | I think the only diff for this campaign is the number of items creatures may use. This is as stated in the Eternal Campaign Rules: unlimited for warlord (subject to normal limitations of per slot where applicable), Lt upto 3, and others only 1. | |
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rgrayua
Sergeant
400 Posts
| | 04/26/2005 10:25 AM |
| | Okay the Drider Sorceror is now banned from tournament play and I am majorly unhappy, just because I think banning is a terrible idea, not for any particular love of the Drider. We've ignored other tournament rules for the campaign, can we ignore this one to, please? | |
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galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 04/26/2005 10:47 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by rgrayua
Okay the Drider Sorceror is now banned from tournament play and I am majorly unhappy, just because I think banning is a terrible idea, not for any particular love of the Drider. We've ignored other tournament rules for the campaign, can we ignore this one to, please?
Can you explain? We ignore tournament rules because we play using the Standard Rules (with our special additions of course) | |
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jjbeezer
Sergeant
633 Posts
| | 04/26/2005 12:15 PM |
| The Drider is banned in constructed 100, 200, and Extreme formats. I feel that the Eternal Campaign does not fit any of those descriptions. That would mean that in my mind the Drider is still legal.
For reference the floor rules for DDM got an update last night. I think the Drider note is on page 5.
http://www.wizards.com/dci/downloads/DDM_FLR_02may05_EN.pdf | |
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lurch_E_bean
Underboss
1058 Posts
| | 04/26/2005 1:42 PM |
| | Well, those are the DCI rules. I'm guessing since this isn't a sanctioned campaign (if there is such a thing), we don't have to follow those rules. I don't see the Drider being any more "broken" than some of our warlords after a few levels and a couple magic items. | |
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rgrayua
Sergeant
400 Posts
| | 04/26/2005 3:56 PM |
| | Right, it is only banned in the DCI floor rules, I should have made that clear. Since we do not follow those rules in excluding the Huges, I think it should not ban the Drider, but thought I would check. | |
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galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 04/26/2005 6:52 PM |
| | wow, they actually BANNED a creature!?!? crazy. | |
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rgrayua
Sergeant
400 Posts
| | 04/26/2005 7:57 PM |
| | Like I said I was very surprised and disappointed to see it, but they did. I fear this game is about to become MTG. | |
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TKort
Sergeant
583 Posts
| | 04/26/2005 9:54 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zippy
Comment on Darkness: I think for a 1st or 2nd level spell to grant mass Conceal 6 is somewhat too powerful. Perhaps balance this with a -2 attacks for all within area, or make it last 1 round. Perhaps Radius 2 instead of 4?
Also, making units non-targetable is a HUGE game effect, and again for a 1st or 2nd level spell is too powerful imho.
What do others think? I really like the idea of adding such a spell, just concerned on power balance.
Well the trick here is that we need to word it so that the darkness sphere stays put.. unfortunately a non DDM wording would be needed .. the next best thing would be to call the range "self" so that the caster was always the centre of the radius.. anyways.. this more or less stationary area that grants these benefits grants it to all minis.. so, sure, CE might benefit from it sometimes.. but what if they're against LG guys that they already have a hard time hitting.. then need to make conceal checks too?? It's a tricky spell.. you're totally right that it's poweful.. but it's kindof like having Lareth the Beautiful around.. you never know who will benefit the most :).
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