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Avatar of Skirmishes
tullywi
Sergeant
982 Posts
    
 | | 05/07/2005 3:02 AM |
| Kiirnodel and I met tonight. It was a very very interesting match.
Winning Warlord: Garrett Hilltop the Cleric of Yondalla - tullywi (LG)
Garrett's warband: Units: Garrett Hilltop, Warforged Fighter, Jorzan the Cleric of Pelor, Protector, and Lidda the Adventurer. Tiles: Assembly Tile Rubble, Spike Stone Cave, Hall of Heroes, and Treasure Room.
Experience gained: 750 Total.
Leveling: Garrett died and gained 500 experience.
Lieutenant XP: 250 experience will go to the hero of the battle - Lidda. She did almost all the damage in the game for me and should have more than 250 experience points.
Lieutenant leveling options (if any): NA
Magic item gained: Ring of Shielding (Immune to magic missile)
Magic item lost (if any): NA
Losing warlord: Kiirnodel
Losing warlord's warband: Units: Cleric of Garl Glittergold, Ragnara, and Half-Orc Barbarian Tiles: Assembly tile 6, Intersection, Mushroom Tangle, and Ancient Temple.
Experience gained: 250
Warlord's leveling options (if any): n/a
Magic item gained: +1 Melee Weapon
Magic item lost (if any): NA
It was a very close match. It looked pretty grim for me when my Warforged rolled a 1 and a 2 while attacking the Cleric of Garl Glittergold. When he routed and the Cleric of Yondalla routed right behind him, things looked even worse. Fortunately for me, 2 zombies charged the Half-Orc Barbarian and forced him to route and die on the subsequent aoos. My Cleric died right afterward and my routing Warforged ran off the board. Then the Cleric of Garl Glittergold moved to base both my remaining units. Lidda hit him as he moved bringing him to 10 points left. Lidda then activated and took 10 damage. She made the morale check (rolled a 17), moved to flank the Cleric (the Cleric missed the aoo), and sneak attacked him to put him out of his misery. From there, Ragnara took the brunt of a critical hit which caused her to route. In the end, Lidda was able to take out the remaining zombies as Ragnara ran off the board.
Anyway, the log file has been uploaded. Good playing Kiirnodel. | |
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Kiirnodel
Sergeant
484 Posts
| | 05/07/2005 11:35 AM |
| That was an EXCELLENT game, excellent, I think the change of almost any SINGLE roll woul;d have made a ton of difference, was very close.
Lidda kicked so much ass last night, lol. | |
Official Smiter of Min/Maxers and Powergamers. | |
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TKort
Sergeant
583 Posts
| | 05/07/2005 4:08 PM |
| Two things, first
Whoever's in charge now
It's really important that Bertha's feat: "Improved Initiative" gets added to the stats posting because it screwed me up and it screwed up our game this week. This will be the third time it's been mentioned and it's still not on.. :)
second,
Rgrayua and I were playing today.. it was a fairly interesting match.. he had Elvira drow wizard and her nasty friend the Aspect of Lolth, along with a small herd of abyssal maws, a bugbear footpad, and a carrion tribe barbarian, oh and I almost forgot the freakin' Dire Bear :), while I had Bertha dwarf sergeant, a gold champ, a dwarf sammy, a dwarf arty, eberk and aramil the adventurers and a dwarf axefighter. There was much back adn forth, with many mighty swings of the battle as both armies now have some interesting magic items at their disposal. At last it came down to toe-to-toe battle with the Aspect and Bertha, and a brutally wounded Gold Champ who had just taken one last swing before the end of the previous round, hoping for his glorious final thrust upon winning initiative.
That's when things went horribly wrong: Rgrayua rolled 3 higher than me.. Bertha's command rating is 6, and Elvira's is 4, upon realizing I had lost by 1, I suddenly remembered that I had taken the Improved Initiative feat and realized that I had forgotten because it isn't posted on the weekly standings. This initiative was so crucial to both of us that it was basically a stalemate in terms of arguing our sides, and that's when Vassal crashed (for the second time that game). Via e-mail we both agreed to declare a draw and chalk it up to lessons learned for next time. Oh well.. interesting match anyways :)
Tkort
For the record.. if something ISN'T Posted on the weekly roster, does that mean it doesn't exist? I didn't even notice this week because after I mentioned it last week I forgot all about it, assuming it would be there when I played next. We should have some kind of standing rule on this so there is a resolution to problems like that if they come up again. Does a warband have what it's gotten regardless of the postings or are you only playing with what is posted as your warband?
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Zippy
Underboss
1993 Posts
Whitewater, WI
| | 05/07/2005 10:09 PM |
| SUGGESTION TO PREVENT FUTURE CONSTERNATION:
Each week help the admin by checking out your roster entries, especially now while we have a brand-new substitute admin. It's a lot of work to coordinate and proof-read everything, so some stuff can get dropped.
If you see an error, post so everyone knows your roster entry is askew. If the roster does not get corrected, directly email the admin (jjbeezer right now) with a reminder.
Personally I go one step farther - I post an update right after each battle (as much for my records as for the admin).
On to week 17 - hey, when are match-up gonna be posted, huh, huh!? | |
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Reference Thread, H/W List, Champion of the Catoblepas | |
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rgrayua
Sergeant
400 Posts
| | 05/07/2005 10:21 PM |
| | That leads to my question--what is the effect of a draw? No XP or Magic Items for either of us? That seems a bit harsh. I didn't see this addressed anywhere, I don't even know if a draw is an appropriate ending for an actual match. The campaign rules seem to describe it as an option when the match couldn't be scheduled. But in our case, who went first would almost certainly have determined the winner. Since there were valid arguments on both sides (and since the match had already run for 3 1/2 hours with the crashes) I thought a draw was probably the best compromise. Any ideas? | |
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Zippy
Underboss
1993 Posts
Whitewater, WI
| | 05/08/2005 12:02 AM |
| A couple of seemingly fair options:
1) Roll 1d20 each, highest roll gets to decide who's rules interpretation to use.
2) If we can confirm your warlord was indeed supposed to have improved init., consider past rounds water over the dam (no redo allowed), but more forward from this point of the game using the ability (simply now choosing / remembering to apply it).
3) Call both warlords the loosing parties (250XP and minor item)
4) Split the total of win plus lose XP and items rounded down, so (1000+250)/2 = 500 XP each, med+minor = minor item each. Since you didn't play it out, etiquette would have you alot no lieutenant XP. Each warlord would get 500 XP Campaign Points as well.
I vote #2 simply because it seems follows actuals intent of rules.
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There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Reference Thread, H/W List, Champion of the Catoblepas | |
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TKort
Sergeant
583 Posts
| | 05/08/2005 11:55 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zippy
A couple of seemingly fair options:
1) Roll 1d20 each, highest roll gets to decide who's rules interpretation to use.
2) If we can confirm your warlord was indeed supposed to have improved init., consider past rounds water over the dam (no redo allowed), but more forward from this point of the game using the ability (simply now choosing / remembering to apply it).
3) Call both warlords the loosing parties (250XP and minor item)
4) Split the total of win plus lose XP and items rounded down, so (1000+250)/2 = 500 XP each, med+minor = minor item each. Since you didn't play it out, etiquette would have you alot no lieutenant XP. Each warlord would get 500 XP Campaign Points as well.
I vote #2 simply because it seems follows actuals intent of rules.
Well I was going for #2, naturally it went in my favour, but as I mentioned at the time I had gone without it (and lost a few init's on it I believe) nearly the entirety of the match. The argument against that was that I 'conveniently' remembered at a pretty critical time, and unfortunately I hadn't caught the error again this week, I instead assumed it had been fixed after I brought it up the previous week. Since I didn't have an ironclad case, I may have eventually conceded the point to get the game going again, but unfortunately after we had both stated our positions Vassal crashed on us (again) and we kinda just gave up at that point :).
Tkort.
Ps. I don't think declaring a draw should have very much benefit to the players.. I'm content to take nothing, but if everyone thinks we should get 250 for having showed up or something that's fine.
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Avatar of Skirmishes
tullywi
Sergeant
982 Posts
| | 05/08/2005 12:07 PM |
| I would also think that the 2nd option is the most fair. If you have the feature, you should be able to use it. Besides, I've seen plenty of games where you think it comes down to one initiative, you go first, and roll ones with your best unit. I've had it happen to me and against me.
Also, it looks like it was a good idea to take a break from Vassal. It appears it was down ever since you were booted off of it.
If you can't get the rest of the match played, it makes sense to get something out of it. You did play for quite some time. I'm not sure if 250 is better or 500. I'd much prefer the rest of the match was played. | |
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Mhir
Sneak
93 Posts
| | 05/08/2005 2:34 PM |
| 1. Winning warlord's warband experience gained: Urthok(Mhir), Kobold sorcerer, Skull crusher ogre *3, large blue dragon, duergar warrior 2 goblin skirmisher
2. Warlord's leveling options (if any): None
3. Lieutenant XP, and who it is going to: Death The skullcrusher ogre
4. Lieutenant leveling options (if any): n/a
5. Magic item gained: Ring of immunity poison
6. Magic item lost (if any): None.
7. Losing warlord's warband: Sword of heironeus, Paladin of throrn, Azer rider, Man at arm *2, Stone golem - Support: Couatl
8. experience gained: 250 for sword
9. warlord's leveling options (if any): n/a
10. Magic item gained: +1 weapon
11. Magic item lost (if any): None. | |
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jjbeezer
Sergeant
633 Posts
| | 05/08/2005 3:19 PM |
| TKort and rgrayua, Sorry about not getting Improved Int added to Bertha. I have added it in Week 16 stats now so that I do not forget it when I copy it into the Week 17 page.
I will give rgrayua and TKort both 500 campaign points and XP. Also, each of you roll for a minor item. Please post the minor item you rolled on the Week 17 thread, and I will add them to the stats as soon as I see them. Also, if the 500 XP moves your warlord up a level, post that information as well in the Week 17 thread. | |
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rgrayua
Sergeant
400 Posts
| | 05/08/2005 7:00 PM |
| Okay I rolled for a Minor Magic Item, getting a 20 for Scroll and 96 for Quickened Scroll. I will choose which 1st or 2nd level spell to add to the list prior to my next match. 500 points will not cause Elvira to gain a level.
Generally I would agree, if a mistake has been made and the correct information can be verified, then it should be played correctly throughout. But in this case, I had no way of verifying Bertha's Improved Initiative. I had printed the thread for this week with everyone's Warlord stats and it wasn't there. Sure after the fact I went to the thread for a couple of weeks ago and saw in TKort's battle report where he had choosen it. But that was well after the fact. At a crucial point, the rules were going to change from the way the game had gone for the prior 3+ hours. To me that's inherently unfair. On several occasions I had mistakenly said the Aspect of Lolth dealt 15 damage, when she in fact deals 20 damage to lawful good creatures. TKort said he had pulled the cards for my figures, so that change was verifiable. Given that circumstance, if you examine the log the Gold Champion would have been dead anyway and initiative a moot point. I don't think I can voluntarily choose to have the Aspect do less damage can I? So if we correct mistakes during game, shouldn't that mistake be corrected throughout the match? | |
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Avatar of Skirmishes
tullywi
Sergeant
982 Posts
| | 05/09/2005 12:12 AM |
| Hello rgrayua,
Unfortunately, if you forget something during a match but remember it later in the match, you can't back track and "make it right". You can play it that way from then on, but there are too many woulda-coulda-shoulda things that would have changed the outcome to make those kinds of changes retroactively.
I remember playing a match once and my opponent remembered some effect they had after we both had moved several units. It was something like a unit taking more damage than my opponent said they did a few turns ago. I was willing to take the extra damage, but wanted to back up the game to that point to use my unit with the correct hit points. I wouldn't have used that particular unit as a blocker if it would die with one more attack. Anyway, we either had to move everything back to the way it was just after the damage, or play from the current point on as if his unit did more damage. I believe we played from that point on with his unit doing more damage. It isn't entirely fair, but otherwise it changes the entire flow of the game. The moral is make sure you know your units abilities before you start to use them. If you make a mistake, remember it for next time and play on.
By they way, it looks like we are up next round. [:)] | |
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