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Subject: Eternal Campaign Week 17

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Richard II
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05/08/2005 7:25 PM  
recovered topic 3408


Richard II
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05/08/2005 7:25 PM  
Question about the summons counting. Does that mean if I summon 40 points of stuff, he has to kill 70% of 165, or does it mean he still has to kill 70% of 125 and the summons count? If it's the 2nd that's kinda harsh.


Kyuketsuki
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05/08/2005 7:58 PM  
Buruja has a +1 to Ac

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Zippy
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05/08/2005 8:48 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by Richard II

Question about the summons counting. Does that mean if I summon 40 points of stuff, he has to kill 70% of 165, or does it mean he still has to kill 70% of 125 and the summons count? If it's the 2nd that's kinda harsh.



It's the "kinda harsh" option, I'm afraid, if we go by standard rules.

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AngryIrish
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05/08/2005 9:21 PM  
Yeah, its a win-lose situation. You get more units and more activations, but they count against you. I guess it comes down to, can you afford to summon.

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05/08/2005 9:22 PM  
Kyuketsuki, for accounting purposes, what is the +1 AC from?

For summons, indeed, it would be the "kinda harsh" option.

Example:
100 pt game
70 pts needed to win
Summon 40 pnts of creatures
35 pt summoner is killed
35 pt summoner and 40 pts of summons go as victory points to the opponent

Or if 20 of the 40 points of summoned creatures are killed, then only 50 points of the rest of the warband has to be destroyed.

Support troops do not count as victory points, though.


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tullywi
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05/09/2005 12:26 AM  
From the 2.0 rule book:
quote:
Summon/summoned: (Keyword) A summon spell brings a creature or creatures matching the specified restrictions onto the battle grid within 6 squares of the acting creature. (The controlling player must
provide the appropriate miniatures.) A summoned creature does not activate on the round it appears, but afterward it activates as a normal member of the warband. A summoned creature does not add to a
warband’s cost, nor does it score victory points for the opponent who eliminates it. Summoned creatures do not count against the twelve-creature limit for your warband. After being summoned, a creature takes on the faction of its summoner’s warband (regardless of the faction printed on its stat card).

Commanders can’t be summoned. Summoned creatures cannot summon other creatures, even if they have summoning spells or abilities.

A summoned creature is immediately eliminated if the creature that summoned it is eliminated. Ignore any Requires CREATURE special ability that a summoned creature has.
We aren't playing DCI rules. It is the DCI rules that have the summoned creatures counting as victory points. If we did use the DCI rules, the Drider would also be banned.


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05/09/2005 12:46 AM  
It all depends on if EC uses standard WoTC rules only, or if it follows "Floor Rules" for tournament play.

Summoned and Minion creatures do NOT count toward VP for standard (only) rules, and DO count toward VP for tournament play.

The reasoning has to do with timed vs. untimed formats from what I have read (to avoid the massive-summon-and-turtle-in-middle victory in timed formats).

So does EC follow floor rules or only standard rules?


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galneweinhaw
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05/09/2005 2:10 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by Zippy

It all depends on if EC uses standard WoTC rules only, or if it follows "Floor Rules" for tournament play.

Summoned and Minion creatures do NOT count toward VP for standard (only) rules, and DO count toward VP for tournament play.

The reasoning has to do with timed vs. untimed formats from what I have read (to avoid the massive-summon-and-turtle-in-middle victory in timed formats).

So does EC follow floor rules or only standard rules?





Standard Rules, which as of Deathknell count Summons and Minions towards Victory Points:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=420005

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galneweinhaw
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05/09/2005 2:13 AM  
Zippy, could you please re-upload some of your zip files with the proper filenames?

take a look at the log file page and you'll see why. We need the week# first or they'll just turn into a jumbled mess. thanks!

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05/09/2005 9:03 AM  
As Galneweinhaw pointed out, the Deathknell rules insert (on the back of the checklist) moved summons and minons to count even in non-sanctioned matches.

Some Stat update questions:
TKort, I still need you to roll up a minor item from last week
Takasi (and anyone else who may have picked up a weapon this week) - ranged or melee
Takasi you Sword picked up Spell mastery as her feat, but you did not tell me the spell (or I just missed it). Please let me know what she chose.

Thank you all for the prompt match reporting and the clear results.

jjb


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05/09/2005 10:11 AM  
Two things:

(1) Elvira used the Minor Scroll of Silent & Still, so I think it's lost since its a minor item. If not I would have traded for a medium item.

(2) On the Iron Flask--I assume it is used to capture an Outsider during a match and then the Outsider can be released during a subsequent match. If tullywi's stats do not indicate a captured Outsider next to the Iron Flask is it safe to assume that one has not been captured yet? If not, am I allowed to know what is captured or at least if one has been captured? Another question after reading the description again--does the flask have to capture another Outsider to free the one trapped inside? The wording kind of looked that way, but it seems strange.


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05/09/2005 11:14 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by galneweinhaw

Zippy, could you please re-upload some of your zip files with the proper filenames?

take a look at the log file page and you'll see why. We need the week# first or they'll just turn into a jumbled mess. thanks!



Roger! Did not realize we'd be putting all in one folder, thought it would be folder per week. Makes sense to use one folder, though, to avoid having to update the links. I don't have the files any more so it'll be a "from now on" fix. TY.

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05/09/2005 11:18 AM  
So WoTC "latest version of rules including errata" on their own web site is actually out of date, since they have not included the DK insert rules updates? Geez, WoTC, put it all in one spot and keep it up to date; since you're raking in the $$$ from us it's the least you could do!

I did not even read the DK insert, guess I'll have to keep track of yet another document to have all the rules for DDM. *Sigh*

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tullywi
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05/09/2005 12:41 PM  
Yep, who'd a thought that the DeathKnell checklist was of any use?

rgrayua, to date, nobody has been brave enough to use an Outsider against me. So, I have been unable to try my flask out. I seem to collect items that aren't of much use (although I won't be getting rid of my +1 Armor of Renegeneration anytime soon - it did take me 3 major items to get it).


rgrayua
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05/09/2005 12:52 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by tullywi

rgrayua, to date, nobody has been brave enough to use an Outsider against me. So, I have been unable to try my flask out. I seem to collect items that aren't of much use (although I won't be getting rid of my +1 Armor of Renegeneration anytime soon - it did take me 3 major items to get it).


I definitely see how that could be a problem. If I wasn't absolutely convinced that the dicebot was out to screw me, I would consider the Aspect of Lolth since she only needs a 5 to avoid being captured, but that is exactly the type of thinking that the evil dicebot tries to lure me into.


Richard II
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05/09/2005 1:14 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by tullywi

Yep, who'd a thought that the DeathKnell checklist was of any use?

rgrayua, to date, nobody has been brave enough to use an Outsider against me. So, I have been unable to try my flask out. I seem to collect items that aren't of much use (although I won't be getting rid of my +1 Armor of Renegeneration anytime soon - it did take me 3 major items to get it).



I think there should be some chance before each match that you've found an outsider in between games, b/c otherwise it's an awfully lame artifact.

Something like rolling before every game:

1-50: Empty
51-60: Weenie Outsider #1 (stonechild?)
61-70: Weenie Outsider #2 (bariaur ranger?)
71-80: Weenie Outsider #3 (aasimaar favoured soul?)
81-85: Decent Outsider #1 (fire genasi dervish?)
86-90: Decent Outsider #2 (hound archon?)
91-94: Decent Outsider #3 (I dunno, too many of em are LE)
95-96: Kickass Outsider #1 (couatl?)
97-98: Kickass Outsider #2 (blue slaad?)
99-00: Kickass Outsider #3 (again, too many evils. Maybe glabrezu just for kicks. [:)])

If you found something in your flask, you could either use it that battle or save it for another battle. No recapturing something that you just used so that you can't repeatedly use a couatl or aspect of lolth or something nasty. I tried to select things that had at least one of the alignments the same and for the weenies I was looking at 15-20ish points, decent was around 30, and kickass was higher stuff.


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05/09/2005 1:21 PM  
While I agree that it makes it a lame artifact, I also think you have to be very careful in allowing a free Outsider. Realistically, how would the other warband have any kind of chance if he were able to include an Aspect of Lolth or Aspect of Orcus, etc. for free, much less a Glabrezu. Even a free Coutal could be problematic. However, a free Bauriar Ranger or something wouldn't seem so bad, at least not any worse than the magic items allowing command of elementals. Would you also have the Outsider lose its Difficult ability? I guess in the campaign there are Warlords who could control a Blue Slaad, but in the current sets there's not yet a CE commander that can. Angelfire will fix that though.


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05/09/2005 1:24 PM  
[quotergrayua, to date, nobody has been brave enough to use an Outsider against me.[/quote]

Consider your flask a "Token of Warding against Outsiders". Since it forces your opponents to use less than optimal warband configurations, it has already been very effective!

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Takasi
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05/09/2005 2:21 PM  
TKort and Kyuketsuki, let me know when you can play. I'm available Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday after 7:30pm Pacific. On Friday I'm available after 6pm Pacific. I can't play Saturday but maybe Sunday evening.

Valyssa took Cure Serious Wounds as her 3rd level spell.


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05/09/2005 5:14 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by Zippy

Consider your flask a "Token of Warding against Outsiders". Since it forces your opponents to use less than optimal warband configurations, it has already been very effective!


Zippy's point is well taken, the deterrent effect of the item should not be dismissed. Like I said, it is unlikely that I would take the risk of playing Lolth against you. If we took Richard II's idea of finding one before the match, I would seriously revise the tables. Only finding one no more than 25% of the time instead of 50% and cutting the power of the allowed outsider to approximate the elementals allowed by other magic items with a slight increase since it is an artifact.

1-75: Empty
76-90: Outsider I (One 15 points or less)
91-97: Outsider II (One 20 points or less)
98-00: Outsider III (One 30 points or less)

Then I would assume that you would have to make the DC19 check after rolling for the outsider. This puts it on par with the Elemental controlling magic items with a little bit of a boost. Can you imagine having a 269 point Glabrezu suddenly appear on the battlefield? Added to a 225 point band, and having to face that with your 225 (maybe +66 support) squad? I would just go ahead and concede right there.


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05/09/2005 8:39 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by jjbeezer

As Galneweinhaw pointed out, the Deathknell rules insert (on the back of the checklist) moved summons and minons to count even in non-sanctioned matches.

Some Stat update questions:
TKort, I still need you to roll up a minor item from last week
Takasi (and anyone else who may have picked up a weapon this week) - ranged or melee
Takasi you Sword picked up Spell mastery as her feat, but you did not tell me the spell (or I just missed it). Please let me know what she chose.

Thank you all for the prompt match reporting and the clear results.

jjb



Man I didn't see anything on the back of the checklist.. holy smokes :)

Tkort


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05/09/2005 9:16 PM  
Okay, Bertha rolled up a +1 shield.. I had RichardII witness just in case :).

Assuming my only option is to give the 500 xp to Bertha, then she doesn't level.. if I can give it to Lieutenant Fall Guy instead, then I will :).

Takasi, I sent email regarding scheduling our match, so let me know if that didn't work :). To be thorough, wednesday, thursday, or friday nights would be good for me

Tkort


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05/10/2005 12:38 AM  
REPORT: Lurch_E_Bean/CG vs. Zippy/LE

Winning warlord's warband: Krawd [Urthok+2lvl] (+1 poison sword), Salamander, Green Dragon (Ignavus), Goblin Skirmisher, Hobgoblin Skirmisher / Tiles Assy#6, Torture Chamber, Scorched Passage, Corridor
Warlord XP: +1000 XP (+1500 VP)
Warlord's leveling options: +1 level, +1 att, +10HP (total +3 Levels, +3att, +30HP, +1 CMD)
Lieutenant XP: Ignavus the Green Dragon, +500XP
Lieutenant leveling options: 1000XP total, +1 level, +1att, +10HP
Magic item gained: Vest of Defense +3 AC
Magic item lost: Ring of Archery +2

Losing warlord's warband: Inspiring Marshall (shield of fireballs), Goliath Barbarian (potion of flying), Goliath Barbarian, Elf Warrior, Ialdabode; Tiles: Rubble Assembly, Treasure Room, Torture Chamber, Burial Chamber
Experience gained: 250XP
warlord's leveling options: No level (2500 XP total now)
Magic item gained: Potion of Flying (yes, another one!)
Magic item lost: +1 Shield, also used one charge of the fireball shield

BATTLE REPORT:

As the battle opened, the goliaths charged out in front, crossing half the field in a single sprint. The psionicist, elf bowman, and Alric stayed in the backfield to command and take opportunity shots. The lawfuls moved up into an obscured area. Alric pushed his troops farther, getting all units into position before Krawd's thugs could react. The goliaths pounded the salamander, but the fire lizard did not fall. The response was swift, as Krawd charged into the fray and poisoned one of the barbarians, and the fire dweller struck home several times. Ignavus, who had been scouting ahead, pulled back and joined battle.

Krawd siezed the attack momemtum and his thugs proceeded to rout one goliath, and the other was poisoned and at death's door. Alric raised on high his shield of fiery doom and sent a flaming blast onto Krawd's crew, killing a pair of goblinoids and wounding Krawd and Ignavus. The Fire Dweller laughed and stepped confidently forward...

At that moment, Alric's band regrouped, and he sent his goliath back for vengeance, which was swift and complete, against the Fiery One. Urthok then advanced on the barbarian and dispatched him, while his scaly green lieutenant dropped in from overhead, spraying his acid. All 3 units were able to shield themselves or move aside, taking only minor wounds. Ialdabode bolted nonetheless.

Alric's inspiring presence brought another rally, and ialdabode held fast near the exit. Meanwhile, Alric lead by example, sandwiching Ignavus between himself and the elf warrior, causing enough damage to rout him. Just before exiting, Ignavus heard Krawd shouting something about goblin scum feasting on green dragon this day, and Ignavus decided to hold fast. Krawd charged the elf before it could back away, and then rushed up for toe to toe combat with Ialdabode. Alric jumped in and nearly killed Ignavus, but Krawd returned the favor with a swift blow to Ialdabode, leaving Alric no choice but to capitulate.

An excellent and very tight game, with a lot of back and forth the whole way. There was no clear winner until the very last initiative roll. Thanks, Lurch_E_Bean, well played!

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Zippy
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05/10/2005 1:12 AM  
WARCHIEF KRAWD TOTAL UPDATE

5000 Campaign Points
Warchief Krawd, +3 levels [+3att, +30HP, +1 CMD] 3500XP
Lieutenant Ignavus, Green Dragon +1 level [+1att, +10HP] 1000XP
Items:
(major) +1 Poisoned Melee Weapon
(major) +3 AC Vest

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05/10/2005 10:28 AM  
Hi tullywi--I'll send an e-mail tonight, but when would you like to schedule our match? Fortunately there is only one hour time difference for us, so it should be much easier. I can play most any week night after about 7:30PM EST. This weekend is bad, I have a D&D Minis and SW Minis tournament on Saturday and Sunday respectively. Friday night is usually an option, unless my wife wants to go out for dinner. Thanks.


Takasi
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05/10/2005 1:12 PM  
TKort, let's shoot for Wednesday at 7:30pm Pacific? My daughter has baseball at 6pm though I should be back by 7:30.


Takasi
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05/10/2005 1:14 PM  
Kyuketsuki, when are you available?

Also, that weapon is melee.


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05/10/2005 6:18 PM  
Thursday nigh at 8 00 east is perfect but anyhow im on line almost every night

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05/10/2005 10:16 PM  
OC vs. Zippy 10 PM CDST tonight (Tues.) fyi

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05/11/2005 12:45 AM  
BATTLE REPORT: OLD COAST VS. ZIPPY/LG (75+7/75)

Winning warlord's warband: Thea the Sword of Heironeus (+1lvl, +1 armor), Sword of Glory (+1 sword of fear burst), Dwarf Phalanx, Hill Dwarf, MAA x 3 / Assy#4, Torture Chamber, Scorched Passage, Corridor
Warlord XP: +1000 XP (+1500 VP)
Warlord's leveling options: +1 level, +5HP, []summon monster II (total +2 Levels, +10HP, +1 CMD, []cause fear, []summon monster II)
Lieutenant XP: +500 XP to Gus the Sword of Glory
Lieutenant leveling options: no levels gained
Magic item gained: Vest of Combat Casting
Magic item lost: +1 Sword of Fear Burst

Losing warlord's warband: Orc Sarge (ring of power charge +5, +1 Armor), Zombie White Dragon, Deathlock, Support Troops Kenku Sneak / Assembly 6, medusas lair, Broken wall, rubble room
Experience gained: 250XP
warlord's leveling options: +1 level, +10HP, +1att (1000XP total)
Magic item gained: +2 melee weapon
Magic item lost: +1 armor

BATTLE REPORT:

Odge entered the arena first, keeping his clan clustered tightly along one edge of the area. Thea's much slower crew clanked it's way onto the scene. Odge sent Kenny the Kenku up for sneak shots - Kenny was then swarmed with numerous minor human troops, just as Odge and his vile Deathlock servant shifted direction to use Kenny as bait. The zombified dragon rushed Thea's rear guard, a hardy but alone dwarven phalanx unit. Thea's command presence and good fortune allowed her a few key swift moves, with Gus and his 2-bladed sword slicing Kenny in twain and Thea herself breaking forward to invoke fear upon Odge, who's mind could not resist the urge to flee headlong away.

The deathlock, unconcerned with this turn of events, dispatched a puny human with a magic arrow. The humans and their hill dwarf ally charged the deathlock in return, while the dwarven phalanx held the rear fast. Odge's mindspin was complete, and he fled the area entirely. As the Deathlock was overwhlemed by shear numbers, the combat came to a close, Thea leaving only the Undead White Dragon in the area.

OC, thanks for a good game. Who else could roll a "1" even on d100 when rolling for a magic item !?

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05/11/2005 12:56 AM  
TOTAL UPDATE, ZIPPY/LG

3250 Campaign Points
Thea the Sword of Heironeus 2250XP (+2 lvl, +10HP, +1CR, []cause fear, []summon monster II)
Lt. Aramil 500XP (no levels)
Lt. Gus the Sword of Glory 500XP (no levels)
Items:
[minor] +1 armor
[major] vest of combat casting

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05/11/2005 1:26 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by Takasi

TKort, let's shoot for Wednesday at 7:30pm Pacific? My daughter has baseball at 6pm though I should be back by 7:30.



Excellent! I'll be there with bells on!



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05/11/2005 1:28 AM  
And anyone who isn't sick of watching Lawful Good beat on Lawful Good for hours on end yet is welcome to come watch! :)

Tkort


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05/11/2005 10:10 AM  
I might stop in and watch, but not if you're going to be wearing bells!

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05/11/2005 10:59 PM  
I'm having major issues with Vassal right now.. or else it's having issues with me.. anyone else having problems? I am getting lagged something fierce.. and I tried relogging but it just wont let me in.. and when I check the "server status" screen it looks like I'm still logged in.. what the heck??
Takasi, if you're out there.. email me at hucrele@yahoo.ca

Tkort


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05/11/2005 11:13 PM  
It came back up a few minutes later. I'm still on if you want to play.


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05/12/2005 10:10 AM  
Winning Warlord: Valyssa d'Brilliance (Takasi)
Winning warlord's warband: Units: Sword of Heironeous (Ring of Protection, Shield of Quick Striking, Armor of Glorious Recovery), Regdar Adventurer, Rask (Ring of Displacement), Couatl, 2 Dwarf Phalanx Soldiers, Azer Raider (Eversmoking Bottle), Man at Arms; Tiles: Assembly Tile (Rubble), Abattoir, Corridor, Scorched Passage
Experience gained: 1000 (1500 campaign)
Warlord's leveling options (if any): n/a
Lieutenant XP, and who it is going to: 500 to Red the DPF
Lieutenant leveling options (if any): n/a
Magic item gained: Major enlarged scroll
Magic item lost (if any): n/a

Losing warlord: Bertha (Tkort)
Losing warlord's warband: Units: Bertha Dwarf Sergeant (+1 armor of resistance, +1 shield), dwarf artificer (Censor of Controlling Air Elementals), Gold Champion (Ring of One Godly Blow), dwarf samurai (+1 returning weapon, +1 armor), Dwarf Axefighter (+1 paralytic burst weapon), Eberk Adventurer, Aramil Adventurer; Tiles: Assembly tile 2 (statue), Ancient Temple, Blood rock cave, Broken Wall
Experience gained: 250
warlord's leveling options (if any): n/a
Magic item gained: traded in +1 shield for Shield of Command
Magic item lost (if any): +1 shield

Battle Report: Logfile updated. It was a very slow match, as LG vs LG usually is. With abattoir and blood rock cave at the centerboard, there were plenty of bottlenecks. Valyssa got to the center board first and waited for Bertha to choose her entrance. Once I knew where she was coming in the DPFs blocked the path. Rask (with the help of the Couatl's swiftness) took out the Samurai first and the GC second. A medium air elemental flew into the middle of Valyssa's group and was quickly dispatched by Rask. As the DPFs took damage, Valyssa and the Couatl used combinations of healing and sanctuary spells to ensure their survival. An axefighter and aramil managed to go around the bottleneck, knocking out the MAA and Azer, but they too were soon destroyed by Rask and SoH. Bertha, Eberk and the artificer remained on the other side of the DPF. Due to the cover of the DPFs on Rask's reach, Bertha had a 32 AC, meaning Rasks +18/+18 needed 14s or better. Bertha was never hit tonight, but she didn't have to be; I had won quick strike at 125 points. Overall a very slow LG brawl (I think we went 10 rounds or so).


lurch_E_bean
Underboss
Underboss
1058 Posts


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05/12/2005 11:39 AM  
Hey, Mhir, I sent you an E-mail a few days ago and haven't heard from you. We need to schedule a time to play this week. E-mail me back or post here.

Successful Trades (31) | Trades Pending (0)
12th Place in the 2005 Nationals, and I owe it all to the Minis Training Montage.
Champion of Celestial Giant Stag Beetles

jjbeezer
Sergeant
Sergeant
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05/12/2005 8:56 PM  
AngryIrish and I will be meeting up between 10 and 11 pm Eastern on Saturday evening.

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