Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
    
 | | 08/14/2005 12:13 AM |
| I'm going to toss this in here, since I've been using a range-based character in RPG lately: I don't agree with the skrimish adaptation of "Point Blank Shot."
Techincally, Point Blank Shot (PBS) adds +1 to atk and +1 to damage with a ranged weapon/attack within 30 feet. It does not provide anything close to the "Ranged Precision" ability mentioned in the EC rules.
I know where the "Ranged Precision" is coming from: the HEBI. However, this is a class feature of the Order of the Bow Initiate PrC. The feat, PBS, and the class ability, "Ranged Precision," are not similar. Also, I don't really see why many would take this feat since the HEBI itself doesn't use this abiity that much (at least in the matches I've seen it in -- mileage may vary.).
I believe the EC PBS should apply to ranged attacks (only), and should increase the warlord's ranged attacks by +1 or +2. The damage quotient is negligable since it's only +1 -- not enough to increase damage. This also follows in the flavor of the feat more than the current iteration. | |
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Zippy
Underboss
1993 Posts
Whitewater, WI
| | 08/14/2005 12:23 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by dariustad
I'm going to toss this in here, since I've been using a range-based character in RPG lately: I don't agree with the skrimish adaptation of "Point Blank Shot."
So does all this interest in EC rules discussion mean you're finally going to join the EC and PLAY a game, mister voyeur!?
Please do! | |
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galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 08/15/2005 5:32 PM |
| Thanks guys,
-removed Deft Opportunist (redundant)
-removed reference to Uncanny Dodge and replaced with Immune Flanking and Immune Sneak Attack
-attempted to clarify "Potions of Spell Storing" and "Potions of Fireball" | |
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jjbeezer
Sergeant
633 Posts
| | 08/16/2005 4:39 PM |
| Two issues:
If a non-psion warlord takes the Wild Talent feat, does it then qualify to progress in the Psion Spell Progression Charts? If they can, I would guess the next level he could take a 2nd level power?
On the enlarge scroll description it appears there are two separate branches, single target and area of effect.
touch to range 6 to sight
or
cone to sight-radius 2 to sight-radius 4
What happens if you choose to enlarge a spell, such as a Magic Missle or a Melf's Acid Arrow, that targets one creature at sight range before the metamagic addition?
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Redgar
Warrior
178 Posts
| | 08/17/2005 6:22 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by jjbeezer
Two issues:
If a non-psion warlord takes the Wild Talent feat, does it then qualify to progress in the Psion Spell Progression Charts? If they can, I would guess the next level he could take a 2nd level power?
On the enlarge scroll description it appears there are two separate branches, single target and area of effect.
touch to range 6 to sight
or
cone to sight-radius 2 to sight-radius 4
What happens if you choose to enlarge a spell, such as a Magic Missle or a Melf's Acid Arrow, that targets one creature at sight range before the metamagic addition?
Also, what happens to an enlarged "line" spell?
Just my 2 ep worth,
Redgar | |
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galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 08/17/2005 11:56 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by jjbeezer
Two issues:
If a non-psion warlord takes the Wild Talent feat, does it then qualify to progress in the Psion Spell Progression Charts? If they can, I would guess the next level he could take a 2nd level power?
No, because, "All creatures with levels in a spell casting class can gain Spell Progression Levels". I will change "All" to "Only" to make it more clear, and will also add (on the RPG side of the creatures card) after "spellcasting classe"
quote:
Originally posted by jjbeezer
What happens if you choose to enlarge a spell, such as a Magic Missle or a Melf's Acid Arrow, that targets one creature at sight range before the metamagic addition?
Spells with range Sight and Sight;Radius 4 are not affected by Enlarged scrolls.
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galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 08/17/2005 12:01 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Redgar
[quote]Originally posted by jjbeezer
Also, what happens to an enlarged "line" spell?
Nothing =) | |
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Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 08/17/2005 3:59 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by galneweinhaw
quote:
Originally posted by Redgar
[quote]Originally posted by jjbeezer
Also, what happens to an enlarged "line" spell?
Nothing =)
The only thing I could come up with is that the line would be longer, which isn't really out of thinking for the EC. With casters getting sudden empowers and quickens, enlarging a line spell wouldn't be too far-fetched. A longer lightning bolt is just as annoying as an empowered fireball or ice storm. It couldn't extend further than 18 squares, tops.
Ah well, just a think. | |
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tullywi
Sergeant
982 Posts
| | 08/18/2005 12:34 PM |
| Hello all,
I recieved a Major Item of +1 Weapon of Slaying last night. Here is the write up: quote:
On a natural 20, Damage +Death (destroy living creature; DC 13)
Um, this is a major item?
Hmm, I'm having trouble putting this into words. At one time, my Cleric of Yondalla had a +1 Weapon of Cleave. Unfortunately, he lost it when my opponent destroyed it because it was only a medium item. If I had a choice between a Weapon of Slaying or a Weapon of Cleave, I would pick the Weapon of Cleave in a heartbeat. I can plan to use a Weapon of Cleave. There isn't much luck involved.
A Weapon of Slaying is way to variable for me. I rarely get 20s when I attack. When I do, I need to hope my opponent fails a DC13. I rarely attempt spells that have DC13 because they don't work. Shoot, my DC15 Fireballs from my Bladesinger didn't ever do full damage to anyone of significance. I guess to me, this weapon doesn't seem any better than a +1 Weapon. The secondary effect is rarely going to come into play. When it does come into play, my opponent will have been the most unlucky person. I guess I really don't like luck based items as major items, especially, with the luck I've experienced on Vassal lately. | |
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galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 08/18/2005 2:48 PM |
| | .... Unfortunately I agree. Who's up for scrapping all these Burst type weapons? I hate them. | |
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Zippy
Underboss
1993 Posts
Whitewater, WI
| | 08/18/2005 5:46 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by galneweinhaw
.... Unfortunately I agree. Who's up for scrapping all these Burst type weapons? I hate them.
ONE
I had a fear burst weapon with a nat. 20 once...on undead. Wow, yes, please, can them all.
TWO
While we're on the topic, can the whole spoils of war thing. I'd rather see:
No spoils
No Dropping Items
No Exchanging Items
Why?
1) saved game time. Huge games played to elimination can already take a long time.
2) simplifies the rules. Since these are rarely used rules, they must be read during matches to get them straight. Again with eating up play time and taking focus off the match
THREE
Consider CONVERTING burst weapons, +1 Weapon of []Cause Fear, +1 Weapon of []Scorching Ray, +1 Weapon of [] whatever the burst was. Or just cut them.
FOUR
I just got a "Drums of Panic" unique item. It's not that this will not be a powerful item, but I'd like to can this item and roll again.
Why?
It will take FOREVER and a day to do all the counting to figure who's affected and who's not..."those between radius 4 and 12". With CG I can run it up fast (think MAC) and fire it off effectively. Trying to figure just where to run to, that's a trick. There's no radius 12 template. | |
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galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 08/19/2005 2:00 PM |
|
"While we're on the topic, can the whole spoils of war thing. I'd rather see:
No spoils
No Dropping Items
No Exchanging Items"
If these are rarely used and just add confusion, well, that's not good. What do others think?
"Consider CONVERTING burst weapons, +1 Weapon of []Cause Fear, +1 Weapon of []Scorching Ray, +1 Weapon of [] whatever the burst was. Or just cut them."
This sounds like a good idea, might reduce the damage ones to [] +15 rather than []+20? whatcha'll think?
"I just got a "Drums of Panic" unique item. It's not that this will not be a powerful item, but I'd like to can this item and roll again.
It will take FOREVER and a day to do all the counting to figure who's affected and who's not..."those between radius 4 and 12". With CG I can run it up fast (think MAC) and fire it off effectively. Trying to figure just where to run to, that's a trick. There's no radius 12 template."
Good point, anyone have a proposal to make this easier? | |
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TKort
Sergeant
583 Posts
| | 08/20/2005 8:27 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by galneweinhaw
"While we're on the topic, can the whole spoils of war thing. I'd rather see:
No spoils
No Dropping Items
No Exchanging Items"
If these are rarely used and just add confusion, well, that's not good. What do others think?
It's also a little warped in that most people tend to be nice and not destroy/steal items, but since it's in the rules, some people do destroy/steal and are totally in the right to do so, but you never know which one you're up against at the outset :). It probably would make thing a little smoother to have items stick to whom their assigned for the duration. It is an interesting twist that you can hand things off, or pick something up off a fallen comrade (or even an enemy), but for the actual amount that it happens, we could probably do without and streamline another aspect of the EC.
quote:
"Consider CONVERTING burst weapons, +1 Weapon of []Cause Fear, +1 Weapon of []Scorching Ray, +1 Weapon of [] whatever the burst was. Or just cut them."
This sounds like a good idea, might reduce the damage ones to [] +15 rather than []+20? whatcha'll think?
I like +20 :) It's just a one-time thing. I agree with you guys on the bursting issue, having personally traded away at least two of them as useless (okay well a +1 weapon has its uses, but the burst is basically irrelevant). I like your suggestions above, but why not just keep them as a burst (15-20 damage) but drop the critical hit part, and have them a one-time activation. Basically they are an item of one godly blow, but some creatures will resist them and some creatures will be vulnerable. The only other alternative that I see would be to increase their effectivness, by a: Increasing burst range (19-20) and/or dramatically increasing the DC. If something is that rare to pop, it should be one hell of a pop, the death weapon would be a lot scarier if it was a DC 20 or so :). I agree with TullyWi's suggestion that a DC13 is almost irrelevant (Most of my warband has over 10 on checks, with my warlord usually sitting at 16 :)). Even if these become new activatable bursts, the DCs should be worthy of a little respect, at least a 16 or so.
quote:
"I just got a "Drums of Panic" unique item. It's not that this will not be a powerful item, but I'd like to can this item and roll again.
It will take FOREVER and a day to do all the counting to figure who's affected and who's not..."those between radius 4 and 12". With CG I can run it up fast (think MAC) and fire it off effectively. Trying to figure just where to run to, that's a trick. There's no radius 12 template."
Good point, anyone have a proposal to make this easier?
Well it could be Radius 4 (to fit the existing template) and only "all enemies".. or it could be radius 12 (deal with the counting..) and forget the safe spot in the middle..
Of course on that note I suppose the standard fireball template tells you the safe zone.. maybe it wouldn't be THAT bad?? Maybe now that someone actually has it, we should wait for some feedback before dropping the axe. Maybe Zippy just needs to be a little more zippy! :)
Tkort.
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Zippy
Underboss
1993 Posts
Whitewater, WI
| | 08/20/2005 9:02 PM |
| I am sure I won't get the Drums of Counting altered before next week match anyway. I'll let you know if they were rough or not.
Question: Are the ranges LOS dependent or distance only [?]
Want to hear from other folks on these issues - pipe in, people!
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Redgar
Warrior
178 Posts
| | 08/20/2005 9:22 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by TKort
quote:
Originally posted by galneweinhaw
"While we're on the topic, can the whole spoils of war thing. I'd rather see:
No spoils
No Dropping Items
No Exchanging Items"
If these are rarely used and just add confusion, well, that's not good. What do others think?
It's also a little warped in that most people tend to be nice and not destroy/steal items, but since it's in the rules, some people do destroy/steal and are totally in the right to do so, but you never know which one you're up against at the outset :). It probably would make thing a little smoother to have items stick to whom their assigned for the duration. It is an interesting twist that you can hand things off, or pick something up off a fallen comrade (or even an enemy), but for the actual amount that it happens, we could probably do without and streamline another aspect of the EC.
Well, I think the rules are really cool... but I agree with Zippy, Galweinhaw, and TKort: spoils of war is a cool addition, however keeping track of where my items (and it's always only MY items [)]) fell is a tedious task. I've played a series of gracious opponents (plus Armour of Arachnidia isn't a choice steal!), and for the hassle it's worth it is not worth the trouble. In the MHB rules, there is a 50% chance a defeated warlord looses an item (loser's choice)... perhaps this would be a simpler solution?
On a related not, more "cool-but-complex-rules" confusion, just check-out the log file of my game with tullywi this week!
My Armour of Arachnidia was useful to me as a stepping-stone to rolling for a major item, however I had lost the previous 3 games [B)], and so couldn't do a straight trade up.
quote:
The Rules state:
The winner of a battle... may exchange a medium magic item he already owns for a random magic item of major power. The loser of a battle... may exchange a minor magic item he already owns for a random magic item of medium power. If you lose a match, you may forego your minor magic item and instead trade in a major item in to roll a new major item. If you win a match, you may reduce your medium magic item to a minor magic item and trade in a major item to roll a new major item.
quote:
The formula used to work it out is:
Two minor magic items are considered equivalent to one medium magic item, and two medium magic items is considered equivalent to one major magic item... Throughout these rules, unless otherwise noted, "medium magic item" may be replaced with "two minor magic items" and "major magic item" may be replaced with "two medium magic items".
Essentially, Minors are worth 1, Mediums are worth 2, and Majors are worth 4. By giving up a roll worth 1 or 2, and trading in items worth the remainder of the "cost", you recieve a brand new item worth 4. 4=4. (Re-rolling a "sub-optimal" major requires an "downgrade" of an item... nothing's free!)
My connundrum is this: What if I lose, but want to trade in for a major item? I can drop 2 minors for a medium, but can I drop 2 minors + a medium for a major item? 1 + 1 + 2 still = 4, and while the first set of rules seem to indicate that I can only trade in specific combinations, the second rules seem to indicate that as long as the math is right, it doesn't matter.
I think that the first rules set attempts to clarify the second by providing concrete math examples, but then appears to limit the second by suggesting these specific combinations are the only valid ways of trading in. Or perhaps the rules-writers figured that no fool would ever give up 3 magic items for a major. [:0] Or perhaps I've read WAAAY too much into all this, and I should stop obfuscating matters. [:o)] [)]
Anyway, that's just my 2 ep worth,
Redgar | |
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galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 08/21/2005 11:54 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Redgar
Essentially, Minors are worth 1, Mediums are worth 2, and Majors are worth 4. By giving up a roll worth 1 or 2, and trading in items worth the remainder of the "cost", you recieve a brand new item worth 4. 4=4. (Re-rolling a "sub-optimal" major requires an "downgrade" of an item... nothing's free!)
My connundrum is this: What if I lose, but want to trade in for a major item? I can drop 2 minors for a medium, but can I drop 2 minors + a medium for a major item? 1 + 1 + 2 still = 4, and while the first set of rules seem to indicate that I can only trade in specific combinations, the second rules seem to indicate that as long as the math is right, it doesn't matter.
I think that the first rules set attempts to clarify the second by providing concrete math examples, but then appears to limit the second by suggesting these specific combinations are the only valid ways of trading in. Or perhaps the rules-writers figured that no fool would ever give up 3 magic items for a major. [:0] Or perhaps I've read WAAAY too much into all this, and I should stop obfuscating matters. [:o)] [)]
yes, your right. I will try to clarify the rules to make them less contradictory | |
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The Mighty
jai
Commander
3235 Posts
| | 08/22/2005 11:30 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by galneweinhaw
"While we're on the topic, can the whole spoils of war thing. I'd rather see:
No spoils
No Dropping Items
No Exchanging Items"
If these are rarely used and just add confusion, well, that's not good. What do others think?
"Consider CONVERTING burst weapons, +1 Weapon of []Cause Fear, +1 Weapon of []Scorching Ray, +1 Weapon of [] whatever the burst was. Or just cut them."
This sounds like a good idea, might reduce the damage ones to [] +15 rather than []+20? whatcha'll think?
I will finally jump in with something useful to say.
Dropping the item swapping/dropping/ etc. rules in game works for me. I can also live with converting the burst weapons to a single use system. (already done, but i figured i would show support) | | | |
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galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 08/22/2005 1:37 PM |
| just uloaded the latest version of the rules.
minor updates:
-burst weapons to [] and minor changes to their descriptions
-silent and still scroll changed to penetrating scroll
-added further trade in option for losers (minor+med for major)
Thanks for all the help guys.... they'll just keep getting better and more consistant as we scrutinize them, and will soon be ready for submission to Dragon mag =) | |
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Richard II
Commander
3663 Posts
| | 08/22/2005 2:48 PM |
| | So what happens to those of us with silent and still scrolls? I'll probably just trade mine in if I win this week. | |
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galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 08/22/2005 3:02 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Richard II
So what happens to those of us with silent and still scrolls? I'll probably just trade mine in if I win this week.
it is now a penetrating scroll | |
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Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 08/23/2005 11:39 PM |
| | Something about that scroll just sounds so wrong! [)] | |
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 08/24/2005 12:05 AM |
| | I actually used the hand off item for the first time the other day, I still lost, but it was a pretty big thing as they were boots of fire resist, I expected cold from Chraals so they didnt matter, but I handed them from Cat Folk Wilder to Warchanter, since catfolk could buff self for fire. Im for taking out destroying (as I hate to lose items that way and they are confusing) but I relly like mid battle handoff. | |
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Veliq
Warrior
300 Posts
| | 08/24/2005 1:30 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by galneweinhaw
quote:
Originally posted by Redgar
Essentially, Minors are worth 1, Mediums are worth 2, and Majors are worth 4. By giving up a roll worth 1 or 2, and trading in items worth the remainder of the "cost", you recieve a brand new item worth 4. 4=4. (Re-rolling a "sub-optimal" major requires an "downgrade" of an item... nothing's free!)
My connundrum is this: What if I lose, but want to trade in for a major item? I can drop 2 minors for a medium, but can I drop 2 minors + a medium for a major item? 1 + 1 + 2 still = 4, and while the first set of rules seem to indicate that I can only trade in specific combinations, the second rules seem to indicate that as long as the math is right, it doesn't matter.
I think that the first rules set attempts to clarify the second by providing concrete math examples, but then appears to limit the second by suggesting these specific combinations are the only valid ways of trading in. Or perhaps the rules-writers figured that no fool would ever give up 3 magic items for a major. [:0] Or perhaps I've read WAAAY too much into all this, and I should stop obfuscating matters. [:o)] [)]
yes, your right. I will try to clarify the rules to make them less contradictory
I was under the impression the writer desired the acquisition of major items to be a privelige for the winner only. Just read the rulebook tonight, but that's what I came away with. | |
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galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 08/24/2005 5:30 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Veliq
I was under the impression the writer desired the acquisition of major items to be a privelige for the winner only. Just read the rulebook tonight, but that's what I came away with.
ya.... that's true.... sigh. So many conflicting emotions!
The other main reason was to reduce the total number of magic items.
A question about that equivalency rule... is that actually useful anywhere? or just redundant and confusing and should be taken out? | |
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Redgar
Warrior
178 Posts
| | 08/24/2005 6:21 AM |
| Personally, I found it useful, but perhaps it should be moved to the section which details After Battle magic item stuff. It explained the method to your madness quite handily, but seemed a little out of place.
Just my 2 ep worth,
Redgar | |
Alea jacta est! | |
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Richard II
Commander
3663 Posts
| | 08/24/2005 9:06 AM |
| | I'll throw my vote in for getting rid of item destruction/stealing. I don't have a problem with dropping items in battle or switching them from one unit to another, but I think items should stay with the warlord that rolled them, since items are a part of a warlords power level and a warlord with less items then he's supposed to have is going to be less powerful then his opponents. | |
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jjbeezer
Sergeant
633 Posts
| | 08/24/2005 10:01 AM |
| With the revision of the Burst weapons to one use, swift actions items, how exactly do they work.
Is it move, attack, successfuly hit, declare swift action use, do extra stuff.
or
Is it move, declare swift action use, attack.
Basically, is the use like a smite action that must be declared before the use and lost on a miss? | |
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The Mighty
jai
Commander
3235 Posts
| | 08/24/2005 10:01 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by galneweinhaw
-burst weapons to [] and minor changes to their descriptions
quote:
Fear Burst - [] creature must make a morale save; swift action
Does this mean i can choose to force the morale save as a swift action whenever i want, or must i successfully hit my opponent before choosing to activate the "Burst" effect? I am pretty sure the latter, but wanted to check just in case. | | | |
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jjbeezer
Sergeant
633 Posts
| | 08/24/2005 10:06 AM |
| | Man, great minds think alike. 16 seconds between posts! | |
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The Mighty
jai
Commander
3235 Posts
| | 08/24/2005 10:10 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by jjbeezer
Man, great minds think alike. 16 seconds between posts!
wow
Edit: You cheated ... i have quotes! [)] | | | |
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Richard II
Commander
3663 Posts
| | 08/24/2005 11:25 AM |
| | I would think you'd have to declare the burst before attacking and if you miss the burst is used without benefit, like smite. | |
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galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 08/24/2005 11:47 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Richard II
I would think you'd have to declare the burst before attacking and if you miss the burst is used without benefit, like smite.
ya, exactly like smite. Will clarify. | |
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galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 08/24/2005 11:50 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Veliq
Just read the rulebook tonight, but that's what I came away with.
How rude of me!
Welcome! [:D]
I would love to hear your impression of the rules. Was there anything specific that stood out to you as really cool or really dumb or really confusing?
Hope to see you joining the campaign soon =) | |
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The Mighty
jai
Commander
3235 Posts
| | 08/25/2005 10:07 AM |
| Rapid Reload (Removes Slow Ranged Attack)
Is there any reason we can't have this feat?
[:)] | | | |
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galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 08/25/2005 11:32 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by jai
Rapid Reload (Removes Slow Ranged Attack)
Is there any reason we can't have this feat?
[:)]
Yep, because noone suggested it during our Warlord Feat discussion | |
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Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 08/25/2005 3:46 PM |
| | You're still revising the rules, no? [:P] | |
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][ My Trade Shoppe ][ Vindicated Champion of Aspects of Draconic Deities
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The Mighty
jai
Commander
3235 Posts
| | 08/25/2005 4:04 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by galneweinhaw
quote:
Originally posted by jai
Rapid Reload (Removes Slow Ranged Attack)
Is there any reason we can't have this feat?
[:)]
Yep, because noone suggested it during our Warlord Feat discussion
I wasn't considered using a Dwarf Raider at the time ... [)] | | | |
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E.C. Organizer
galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 08/25/2005 4:25 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by jai
I wasn't considered using a Dwarf Raider at the time ... [)]
Actually, I think there's a magic item that'll lets you lose Slow Ranged Attack.... just gotta find someone with one and form alliance and trade =) | |
Join the Eternal Skirmish Campaign.
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr Seuss | |
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Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 08/25/2005 4:31 PM |
| A swift weapon.
However, it is a good feat to add at some point. | |
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Champion of ALL Dragons and the Dragon Shaman
][ My Trade Shoppe ][ Vindicated Champion of Aspects of Draconic Deities
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jjbeezer
Sergeant
633 Posts
| | 08/25/2005 4:36 PM |
| | If we are talking about new feats that I should have suggested earlier, I would add stable footing after this week's match. It would not need to be warforged only even though the WF Hero is the only one that currently has the ability. | |
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