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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
    
 | | 06/20/2005 5:10 PM |
| | recovered topic 5006 | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 06/20/2005 5:10 PM |
| I was going to play Soth/Beholder on Saturday, but unfortunately I was the only one to show up for the tournament. [:(] Here's the filler I was going to use:
Mongrelfolk x2
Goblin Skirmisher x3
Duergar Warrior | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
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Damien the Bloodfeaster
Sergeant
885 Posts
Portland, OR
| | 06/20/2005 5:21 PM |
| I've been running LS + Beholder for the last month now, both in a local tournament and our local weekly game group.
The first week, I ran the straight LS/Beholder warband recommended in Kiddoc's article on the Wizards website (which used a Mongrelfolk, 4 goblin skirmishers, and a duergar warrior as the filler to maximize activations). One fireball-and-gauth band later, however, I revised it, and since then I've been using Azer Raider x2, Goblin Skirmisher x3 (or skirmisher x2 + mongrelfolk if playing Assault).
It's one less activation, but the Azer Raiders have good AC, do 10 damage to most creatures, and are immune to fire, which allows them to screen effectively against gauths particularly. You can also use them as abyssal blast targets that would actually survive the blast; alternately, if the enemy swarms Soth and you decide to use the blast point blank, you ensure that at least a couple of your filler units survive the explosion.
The mongrelfolk in this type of band serves three purposes: (1) tile points in Assault; (2) extra activation; and (3) possible target for a turn 1 fireball. After trying several times, I could never get (3) to work for me; (2) can work for any 3-point unit. Only (1) was enough to justify inclusion in my warband, so I only used it for when I was in the tournament. (Our weekly games use Random scenarios from the Minis Handbook.)
Goblin skirmishers are always excellent filler for LE. Though they have no synergy in this band (no Snig/Urthok), they do have an okay ranged attack, unlike any other LE 3-point mini. The Azers I explained above.
Another person brought a potential Beholder + Lord Soth warband to play, though he did not use it; he used zombies and skeletons for fodder; zombies have enough hit points that they can take a blow or two from enemy fodder and then be healed up by the beholder if need be. They also serve as excellent screeners against enemy beholders (i.e., mine!), and are immune to gauth paralysis.
Personally, I doubt I'd run more than, say, two warrior skeletons with a beholder/Soth warband. Zombies may have hit points, but they are kind of slow, and you want them to be able to move around and plug holes, get away from the beholder so Soth is closest, etc. They also lack the goblins' ranged attack, which while minor can sometimes make a difference.
So to sum up, the best fodder units to my mind are:
Mongrelfolk (one only; if playing Assault)
Goblin Skirmisher (2-3, depending on Mongrelfolk presence)
Azer Raider (x2; Blue is a possible substitute, but I haven't tried it)
Warrior Skeleton (if there's lots of enemy beholders in your metagame).
(By the way, I'd have to say the LS+Beholder has been quite effective; in 13 games I've only lost two--one because of my stupidity in not spacing my warband right and losing all my filler units to a fireball, then having the beholder sniped by a gauth; the other against an Eye of Gruumsh/Orc Champ x4 warband that critted the beholder 2x in one pair of activations. I should point out that I've never faced any of the classic Tier 1 warbands with it.)
Though you did not ask, as far as tiles I would recommend the following:
1. Treasure Room: The long walls make a good hiding place for a beholder to pop out behind, use an eye ray, use another eye ray, then pop back. You can also place it against one of the edges of the map to create a bunker for Soth + Beholder. If you put the T. Room towards the middle of the map, enemies often think line of sight is effectively blocked, and you can sometimes trick them with a beholder slide on LS to get line of sight and blast the enemy's assembly tile. The Torture Chamber, though similar in appearance, has too many wide openings to form an effective bunker. Remember that Soth + Beholder's worst matchup is CE quad warbands that swarm Lord Soth; you want to keep them from ganging up on him if you can.
2. Dungeon Rooms: This one is nice because it allows lots of line of sight for the beholder, yet provides plenty of cover as well against archers, raising the beholder's effective AC from ranged attacks to a healthy 26.
3. Spike Stones Cave: I used this one with the mongrelfolk especially; the spike stones create a possible hazard to telekinese enemies onto for 5 damage, if nothing else. You can also place it effectively adjacent to the treasure room tile to further bunker the area, forcing the enemy to move further around or take damage going over the spike stones. And, if you've placed it effectively, if you rout the enemy he may be forced to flee across them, effectively taking more damage.
4. Rubble Assembly: I like this one for the usual reasons--the wall provides effective cover, and the two openings allow flexibility in placing your forces once all the tiles have been placed. Assembly tile 6 looks good too, though I've yet to use it. | | | |
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ccolinh
Sneak
144 Posts
| | 06/21/2005 8:35 AM |
| I've lost with this band twice in a row to CE quad bands. It's a tough match-up to be sure, but I have yet to perfect a strategy, which has to be spot-on for this band to work against CE quad. I love this band though and I still have hope for it. I made a stupid miscalc last game and lost LS very early and still nearly won with just the Beholder and some fodder. I was based by the Eye and an OC and after they killed Soth I slowed the OC and stoned the Eye, next turn stoned the OC. Then a couple of closest-target mistakes later I finally lost the Beholder.
As for the fodder - I like 2x Mongrelfolk. While Damien is correct, using one as a Mongrelbomb is tough, tough , tough, but the threat is huge and hard for your opponent to ignore. With covering fire from the Beholder, my Mongrelbomb drew 3 orc warriors to their deaths before the battle was joined and by that time there were juicier targets.
I think my next try will look like this:
LS
Beholder
Mongrel x2
Blue
Goblin Skirmisher
Duergar Warrior
I'm adding in the Blue to help clear OW's (or other fodder) from being the Beholders closest target.
I like Damiens tile choices although Mushroom Tangle and Medusa's Chamber are also worthy of consideration.
Chad
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Champion of the ???
Completed Trades (19): Raland, Frostrune, Ghendar (x2), Siddartha of Suburbia (x2), ckissee, doubtofbuddha, dagonet, jgsugden, Bugsy, smetzger, sttmxn, Drakkengi, Vrecknidj, Caustic_Mouse, lyus_sleyden, shoesan, Username, | |
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Damien the Bloodfeaster
Sergeant
885 Posts
Portland, OR
| | 06/21/2005 9:56 AM |
| I agree that blue is worthy of consideration, as it can clear weak undead (strangely, I see nothing that says that mind thrust won't work against skeletons or other nonliving critters on the card). Just remember that the beholder's antimagic eye ray disrupts the blue's psionics as well.
I agree that mushroom tangle and medusa's chamber are decent possible choices. I like jagged wasteland/spike stones cave over the MT because it provides a hazard for use with the telekinesis. I've used medusa's chamber to good effect, though it won't provide enough cover to a beholder to protect it from a gauth (but neither would the dungeon rooms tile). | | | |
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doone
Warrior
262 Posts
| | 06/21/2005 10:42 AM |
| quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Felagund
I was going to play Soth/Beholder on Saturday, but unfortunately I was the only one to show up for the tournament. [:(] Here's the filler I was going to use:
Mongrelfolk x2
Goblin Skirmisher x3
Duergar Warrior
i agree with that.Its the same fillers bugsy used. | |
fight to the end
successful trade:(2x)time-bandit,Bloody,litorian,romers,(2x)lecanZ,nixlord,kumag,ilarue,bugsy,robby,kypdurron,Shadow Lord, llyrsln,nyjastul69,Alakhai
pending:
http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=566
http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=doone
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tree druid
Sergeant
414 Posts
| | 06/21/2005 11:47 AM |
| | Thanks for the analysis. I shall try fiddling with ideas right now and let you know what build I end up using this weekend for my match. | |
After all the battles, all the death, life can begin again
Champion of Radiant Dragons | |
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ccolinh
Sneak
144 Posts
| | 06/21/2005 1:20 PM |
| | HMM - crappy - I wasn't aware the Beholder's antimagic eye affects psionis as well, but you're right - they are listed as spells - that sucks[V] | |
Champion of the ???
Completed Trades (19): Raland, Frostrune, Ghendar (x2), Siddartha of Suburbia (x2), ckissee, doubtofbuddha, dagonet, jgsugden, Bugsy, smetzger, sttmxn, Drakkengi, Vrecknidj, Caustic_Mouse, lyus_sleyden, shoesan, Username, | |
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