Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
    
 | | 10/20/2005 2:35 PM |
| | recovered topic 10134 | |
I am not gone. | |
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Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 10/20/2005 2:35 PM |
| Honestly, I would use the Skullclan Hunter in some of my 8 activation bands but it seems tough to pull that off and still get the commander support I need, especially when its so easy to just throw in another Justice Archon or Dwarf Samurai.
So I think he might have a place, he just hasn't found it yet.
I also have been trying out 8 figure Ulmo bands but haven't had the oppurtunity to send them against anything that would be a REAL threat to it (i.e. Archmage, quad, or Chraals.) They can really ear up Driz'zt or Justice Archon bands though, especially with a Chraal back-up. This means nothing. Maybe I will have Sam help me test this on Monday. Hrm..
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I am not gone. | |
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Gunthar
Commander
2938 Posts
| | 10/20/2005 2:45 PM |
| | IN most any time I try to put him in, I end up pulling him for either Justice Archon, Dwarf Samurai, Human Dragonslayer or even up to a Warforged Hero. Their abilities aren't as depndent on other figures. | |
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Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 10/20/2005 2:48 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Gunthar
IN most any time I try to put him in, I end up pulling him for either Justice Archon, Dwarf Samurai, Human Dragonslayer or even up to a Warforged Hero. Their abilities aren't as depndent on other figures.
Yeah, I am actually thinking I might start using the Warforged Hero a bit more if it turns out that the Half-Orc Paladin is reasonably costed. I have long held to the theory tha the Warforged Hero would be competitive if he only did a little more damage. I look forward to seeing if I am (probably not) right. [:P]
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I am not gone. | |
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memphisto
Warrior
213 Posts
| | 10/20/2005 3:09 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Gunthar
IN most any time I try to put him in, I end up pulling him for either Justice Archon, Dwarf Samurai, Human Dragonslayer or even up to a Warforged Hero. Their abilities aren't as depndent on other figures.
I get a similar sense when considering LG builds and, for me, it's that I can't get past his speed 4. Even so, I think the SCH's time is yet to come, that time being dependent on a not-yet-released figure with a CE or SA that boosts his speed to 6 in order to really take advantage of his hide and flanking abilities. If he were a little faster, he would make Ulmo bands (among others) that much scarier and viable, IMHO. | |
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muselindeman
Sneak
133 Posts
USA
| | 10/20/2005 3:21 PM |
| Ditto what memphisto said. Like many Lg, too slow and too little dmag (like the warforged doubtofbuddha brought up and many other LG figures.)
It is unfortunate that LG gets some slight AC adjustment ( after all, with many tier 1 figures at +14 or mor to hit, what the difference between ac 15 and ac 20? With a 1 as an auto miss, they are hit 15% less and do 1/2 the damage as their chaotic counterparts) at the sacrifice of speed and damage.
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Larry Lindeman
trade refrences: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12442 | |
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Gloom_
Sergeant
583 Posts
| | 10/20/2005 3:21 PM |
| | Stone Giants in the singular, (so actually rather a Stone Giant) seem to be working absolutely fine for me. Rather suprised they didn't make a bigger splash skirmish-wise actually. Every body seemed to be in praise when it came out, then.. nothing. | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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Goldmoon
Sergeant
986 Posts
| | 10/20/2005 3:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Gloom_
Stone Giants in the singular, (so actually rather a Stone Giant) seem to be working absolutely fine for me. Rather suprised they didn't make a bigger splash skirmish-wise actually. Every body seemed
to be in praise when it came out, then.. nothing.
I also had some success with him in my local causal games. I do find him quite durable if supported well. Too bad there no other fast hard hitter, cheap too[)] in LG, that can draw attention away from him. Fodders are too slow and fall easily and Stone G is been targeted before the 'real' battle start.
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kaiserluger
Warrior
319 Posts
| | 10/20/2005 4:29 PM |
| | I think Ulmo will have more of chance in 8 figure play. Couatl, JA, ULMO and COO limits your filler in 12 figs, buts lets you add Celestial direbaddgers and/or aramil in 8 figs. | |
Kaiserluger - | |
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 10/20/2005 4:45 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha
Honestly, I would use the Skullclan Hunter in some of my 8 activation bands but it seems tough to pull that off and still get the commander support I need, especially when its so easy to just throw in another Justice Archon or Dwarf Samurai.
So I think he might have a place, he just hasn't found it yet.
That seems to be his biggest issue, 4 pts too much. When it comes to the JA vs Skullclan choice I can take the JA and a Hill dwarf for the skullclan.
Pretty good input so far, a resurgence of the WFH could be interesting. The Half-Orc Paladin will determine alot of whats going on with him I guess.
I think the maps and init is going to be a big boost to tier 1 LG, as youve got a good shot at winning init with some of the commanders and taking/using one of the shorter more move 4 friendly maps. | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 10/20/2005 5:07 PM |
| Speed 4, and there are relatively few important metagame figures where the skullclan has the advantage over the JA in hitting power (assuming flank.)
I really like the figure but as long as assault is a component of all matches he's working at a disadvantage. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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ruhk69
Warrior
205 Posts
| | 10/20/2005 7:17 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Gloom_
Stone Giants in the singular, (so actually rather a Stone Giant) seem to be working absolutely fine for me. Rather suprised they didn't make a bigger splash skirmish-wise actually. Every body seemed to be in praise when it came out, then.. nothing.
What do you use in the warband with it? | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11730 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 10/20/2005 8:26 PM |
| | It's much easier, and much safer to bring Justice Archons to the table than Skullclan hunters. DR 5, fearless most of the time, and especially flight for LG (and move well with the Couatl) are very nice abilities to have. It's a little tougher to put the SH to good use, because you need those flanking attacks. | |
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warty_nosed_goblin
Underboss
1384 Posts
| | 10/20/2005 8:57 PM |
| Yeah, I *want* to make the SKH work, but I can't seem to figure out how...there's some nice synergy with the dwarven defender, but I don't think it's strong enough to actually make it tier one.
I also think that the SKH is a different sort of threat then the JA, as the JA is strongest against heavy hitters, and the SKH is strongest against lower damage pieces... | |
Call me: W.N. Gobo!
originally posted by grim:
While he is clearly insane, he does have a point. | |
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hardinjmm
Sergeant
573 Posts
Madison, WI
| | 10/20/2005 9:26 PM |
| I know this topic is primarily about the SCH, but let me cast my vote for the Stone Giant. I really enjoy running him, and I find him to be very well complemented by the Dwarf Artificier. He is a very good target for both the Greater Magic Weapon and the Legion's Shield of Faith. What commander do you guys use with him? It seems that the two most popular choices are probably the Cleric of Order and the Cleric of Dol Arrah, but I am not sure.
Cheers,
Jon | | | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10445 Posts
United States
| | 10/20/2005 10:27 PM |
| My son has been playing this band and doing quite well with it.
Mounted Paladin
Cleric of Order
Justice Archon x2
Hill Dwarf Warrior x4
Against many of the kinds of bands that the Mounted Paladin might otherwise have trouble, the Justice Archons are often just what's needed as support.
Dave | |
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 10/20/2005 10:39 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by hardinjmm
I know this topic is primarily about the SCH, but let me cast my vote for the Stone Giant. I really enjoy running him, and I find him to be very well complemented by the Dwarf Artificier. He is a very good target for both the Greater Magic Weapon and the Legion's Shield of Faith. What commander do you guys use with him? It seems that the two most popular choices are probably the Cleric of Order and the Cleric of Dol Arrah, but I am not sure.
Cheers,
Jon
Nah this is about Tier 1 LG and experiences. The first question I posed was just about the skullclan.
Question 2: Is the dwarf samurai a tier 1 figure?
I think it is in the right role. I think builds with 3 JA and then a single Dwarf Sam for the change of pace punch is a really interesting idea. | |
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Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 10/20/2005 10:44 PM |
| | I think the big problem with the dwarf samurai with justice archons is the discontinuity between their speeds. | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 12:08 AM |
| The only place for slow creatures currently in the meta is with pieces you want to keep safe ... commanders, ranged attackers, etc. Otherwise you want the pieces producing damage as frequently as possible and for that you need to be able to maneuver.
If LG had an option to alter starting positions, boost movement, etc. then the slower pieces would see more regular play. It isn't a freak occurrence that the most effective LG bands for skirmish play center around fast creatures - LSD, JA, Couatl, etc. | |
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NightMoor
Sergeant
448 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 1:53 AM |
| Well, I have yet to be disappointed by my Skullclan in all the times I've fielded him. Sure, he's situational, but he's also the king of his situation. He is the ultimate bodyguard unit. If you somehow manage to get him into the thick of things, he's a major threat and your enemy knows it.
Of course, he's terribly slow so I can't recommend him for everyone, but as a bodyguard he is outstanding. | |
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Zyla
Underboss
1197 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 5:12 AM |
| | The 8 figure limit might see the rise of the Gold Dragon. Also as to the Stone Giant, its not used all that much in skirmish due to the Archmage. | |
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Ironballz
Sneak
68 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 9:31 AM |
| Dragon Sam - I don't think he's tier 1. You're replacing hitting power with a back up commander. Why not just put in another commander if that's what you want and get an additional commander effect. If you already have two (many have done that with 4 JA's), then why put him in. He doesn't have anything else that really makes him stand out.
SCH - someone else nailed, as long as you're playing assault, his usefulness is limited. Try him in the old standard format and he works well as a "heavy hitter" in a point denial band when your opponent penetrates your lines to come after your commander or spellcasters. He also rocks in an Undead heavy metagame. Not necessarily because of the damage he does, but the psychological factor of his presence.
Stone Giant - Suffers from being a center piece unit. Look at the history of the game, with the exception of the LSD and LRD, center piece units don't performed very well. They have their moments, but over all the Thraskor, Beholder, MP, Drizzt, etc, bands have more bad match ups than good ones. The stone giant will win you some matches here and there though. | |
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