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Aravis
Underboss
1155 Posts
    
 | | 11/06/2005 2:32 AM |
| | recovered topic 11005 | |
Welcome to Eternal Crack...
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Aravis
Underboss
1155 Posts
| | 11/06/2005 2:32 AM |
| | Might not be bad, use some Trogs for stench and the Chraals are imm to stench I believe. Could be cool but I think the Blackguard will be the best commander no matter what, CR 6 and the Commander Effect + great stats and can hold his own in melee makes him ideal. But the Trog Cap isnt bad. | |
Welcome to Eternal Crack...
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psistef
Underboss
1572 Posts
| | 11/06/2005 3:21 AM |
| I think the Trog can support a Chraal, but I don't think he'd support an entire warband of them like the blackguard can. Having said that though, he IS only 10hp down, and stench lends a 24 AC. Hmmm... Still, his higher cost cuts in somewhat.
I've been thinking of a band led by him with a chraal, some trog barbs, etc.
Chraal does ofer the obvious synergy of stench immunity, as well as a renowned low attack bonus. | |
Champion of the Prestige Class where mages focus on telekenesis and start throwing people into the ceiling and uber stuff like that.
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Black Flame Zealot
Sneak
102 Posts
| | 11/06/2005 3:26 AM |
| | Chraals are elementals. Elementals are living creatures, thus they are not immune to stench. See page 34 of the rulebook, under "living". | |
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Gloom_
Sergeant
583 Posts
| | 11/06/2005 9:54 AM |
| | To use Stench you have to put the Trog in Harms way. The strength of Tri-Chraal builds are that the HBG & Orog are kept out of harms way, and the bases of the Chraals to protect them. | |
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Aesnath
Underboss
1358 Posts
Augusta, GA
| | 11/06/2005 1:43 PM |
| | If you DON'T HAVE a HBG, Orog, or Soth, the Trog captain seems like a fair substitute. He's pretty tough to hit and his hp ain't bad. Using a few regular trogs won't hurt either. | |
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Liquidburn
Sergeant
944 Posts
| | 11/06/2005 1:50 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Black Flame Zealot
Chraals are elementals. Elementals are living creatures, thus they are not immune to stench. See page 34 of the rulebook, under "living".
Wow, that's funny that they aren't immune to that since they are immune to everything else. =0) | |
Jason Slingerland
"Why do I have to be Mr. Pink?" | |
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Aesnath
Underboss
1358 Posts
Augusta, GA
| | 11/06/2005 9:00 PM |
| | Ah, but you forget Liquidburn, B.O. offends everyone, even evil material representations of Ice. | |
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| Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11730 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 11/06/2005 10:33 PM |
| I think that the Orog Warlord is also a very good Chraal commander. There are many people using Elf Pyromancers now, because the new maps provide so much LOS. At least the Orog has some elemental resistance, and quite a few HP. The clincher for the Orog though is his minions ability. Since 8 figures will become the new maximum starting number in the future, the Orog can potentially push you well over that low number.
Another commander that deserves mention with the Chraals is Mordenkainen. There is one guy in our local meta that loves Mordy, and he plays him about half the time in tournaments (he usually places in the top three). Remeber that Mordy's most powerful spell is that empowered cone of cold, and he can blow it through any number of Chraals with impunity. And for a spellcaster, his HP total ain't half bad. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
| DDM Australian Champion 2005
psistef
Underboss
1572 Posts
| | 11/06/2005 10:49 PM |
|
not immune? Oh well.
I wouldn't go the tri-Chraals with him, but one could be nice. | |
Champion of the Prestige Class where mages focus on telekenesis and start throwing people into the ceiling and uber stuff like that.
Desirer of a Commander Effect in CG that grants Sidestep to followers with a ranged attack. | |
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md3
Sergeant
702 Posts
| | 11/07/2005 12:45 AM |
| | The Chraal can benefit if you have other Trog Barbs running to gain flanking and adding stench to opponents with the Trog Capt nearby. Then his CE really kicks in and your Chraals will be quite the beasts. | |
"You are not the sum of your miniatures."
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XAos
Underboss
2401 Posts
London
| | 11/07/2005 5:42 AM |
| | Troglodyte Captain would be a good commander for helmed horrors, since those are immune to stench. | |
Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
| DDM Australian Champion 2005
psistef
Underboss
1572 Posts
| | 11/07/2005 6:18 AM |
| | Yeah, I wouldn't imagine running the captain in until late game, until then trogs and trog barbs could kick in his CE | |
Champion of the Prestige Class where mages focus on telekenesis and start throwing people into the ceiling and uber stuff like that.
Desirer of a Commander Effect in CG that grants Sidestep to followers with a ranged attack. | |
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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 11/07/2005 2:10 PM |
| In 3X Chraal, your commander must remain safe. As a result, you want a commander that:
a.) Can stand up to abuse (high AC, resistances, high hp, high level/saves),
b.) Can offer a useful commander effect to the Chraals,
c.) Can do something useful while away from the actual melee, and
d.) Is as cheap as possible, as the Chraals are expensive in triplets.
The Trog Captain is AC 22 (24 with stench), Level 6, CR 5, HP 65 and has no resistances. He costs 53 points and has very low damage potential for his cost, making it hard for him to defend himself against something that gets past the Chraals. His commander effect is useless unless he is in melee combat, or a weenie with stench survives long enough to get into melee combat. He has no ranged utility.
The HBG is AC 20, Level 9, CR 6, HP 70 (with 10 points of healing available), and has no resistances. He costs 46 points and has reasonable damage potential against good creatures, and creatures that suffer sneak attacks. His commander effect is strong for Chraals, making them fail morale checks on a 1 in 20 chance if you need to keep them around. He has minimal ranged utility.
The Orog Warlord is AC 21, Level 9, CR 4, HP 80, and has 5 fire and cold resistance. He costs 71 points and is an offensive threat, especially when his minions factor in. His commander effect is useful for Chraals but not overwhelming. However, with his high costs, you must get some damage out of him to justify his cost - which puts all your chraals in jeopardy. He has no ranged utility.
As the cheapest viable commander, the HBG starts off being on top. He has the worst AC of the three, but can be viable from a distance, and is fine with his own offensive capabilities. His healing and doom give him some use at range. When you add all of that together, he seems like the clear champ to me.
However, if Nentyat Hunter were available to LE ... she'd be a nice commander for Chraals, with lots of great ranged utility.
Further, there is one figure that has some potential as a 3X Chraal commander: Dark Naga. His large size makes it easier to maintain LOS, his CE is nice for the Chraal breath (and those rare death bombs), and he can provide many useful abilities at range. However, he is a bit squishy as he doesn't surpass the 60 hit point range. However, he does have potential if there is ever a cheap LE figure with bear's endurance or LE gets a cheap way to bring the cleric of Gruumsh to LE, or if LE gets a cheap and good healer or cheap piece with very good defensive spells. | |
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| Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 11/07/2005 2:15 PM |
| | The Dark Naga's commander effect doesn't affect the Chraals as they are elementals. | |
I am not gone. | |
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Vash
Underboss
1995 Posts
| | 11/07/2005 2:18 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by jgsugden
Further, there is one figure that has some potential as a 3X Chraal commander: Dark Naga. His large size makes it easier to maintain LOS, his CE is nice for the Chraal breath (and those rare death bombs), and he can provide many useful abilities at range. However, he is a bit squishy as he doesn't surpass the 60 hit point range. However, he does have potential if there is ever a cheap LE figure with bear's endurance or LE gets a cheap way to bring the cleric of Gruumsh to LE, or if LE gets a cheap and good healer or cheap piece with very good defensive spells.
Thats a lot of "IF/ORs". The other problen with him is, since you are already running a 3x Chraal band, that half your band will consist of Large Bases. May not be the best in those terms though. | |
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lurch_E_bean
Underboss
1058 Posts
| | 11/07/2005 2:49 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by XAos
Troglodyte Captain would be a good commander for helmed horrors, since those are immune to stench.
Yeah, but don't you think a +21/+16 against a target with -2 AC is a bit of overkill? [:P] | |
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Korhal_IV
Sergeant
852 Posts
| | 11/07/2005 3:04 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by lurch_E_bean
Yeah, but don't you think a +21/+16 against a target with -2 AC is a bit of overkill? [:P]
There is no such thing as overkill. There is only "open fire!" and "I need to reload!"
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Gloom_
Sergeant
583 Posts
| | 11/07/2005 3:13 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Korhal_IV
quote:
Originally posted by lurch_E_bean
Yeah, but don't you think a +21/+16 against a target with -2 AC is a bit of overkill? [:P]
There is no such thing as overkill. There is only "open fire!" and "I need to reload!"
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YRM_DM
Sergeant
905 Posts
| | 11/07/2005 7:29 PM |
| I can say from personal experience that Soth makes a good commander for 2x Chraals.
He's tough to kill, and anything reaching him suffers -3 to Morale and may eat 25 magic damage coupled with BlindSight.
He has DR and SR, fearless, immunities, and from range, he can get you out of the gate with a clear lead... and if his Blast ISN'T used right away, it's a tactic altering ability for your opponent (he won't do certain things with that blast on the table).
You're coupling 2 Cones and 1 Blast with 2 possible bursts, combined with Blues to pick off Fodder and skeleton/goblin screeners, strong initiative and morale.
HBG might be the best commander, but, even though I have most of the pieces from most of the sets, that's one that I do not own.
Soth & the Orog do just fine though. | |
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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 11/07/2005 7:30 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Korhal_IV
quote:
Originally posted by lurch_E_bean
Yeah, but don't you think a +21/+16 against a target with -2 AC is a bit of overkill? [:P]
There is no such thing as overkill. There is only "open fire!" and "I need to reload!"
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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 11/07/2005 7:39 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by vash9284
[Thats a lot of "IF/ORs". The other problen with him is, since you are already running a 3x Chraal band, that half your band will consist of Large Bases. May not be the best in those terms though.
Uhhhh ... all the ifs/ors are in the one sentence that says there is future potential for the Dark Naga ... I basically said it could be good if something imporved it a bit, and then I provided a few suggestions on what might get it over the hump.
As for 4 large bases ... you'll find that large bases will be good in the map era when used on pieces you are either using to defend an area, or are trying to defend. The large base on the Naga is an advantage, aspecially as it makes it easier to start those bolts from different areas ... | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2019 Posts
Portland OR
| | 11/08/2005 2:55 AM |
| | He just doesn't measure up to his buddies in LE's commander stable...my friend cringes everytime he see's multi-chrall but would love to see stinker overthere tied to them...misplaced he actually makes the chralls poor att bonus worse...my buddy did run him as commander in sealed and place second behind me...he used him as commander boost and then used the commander effect with the gith monk as stench doesn't hurt him as bad as most other figs...also with stench the trog hits even more often than the blackguard and almost as often as the orog...interesting...he is a good commander but you spend 60pts to make him worth his commander effect (assuming one other trog)...with the helmed horror i could see major use though as you don't really care if you lose him if HH are your hitters (fearless)... | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2019 Posts
Portland OR
| | 11/08/2005 2:57 AM |
| | i did forget to say that he would be nearer to perfect if chralls were immune to stench...but alas thier not... | |
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orcmonk220
Underboss
1608 Posts
| | 11/08/2005 6:45 AM |
| | I thought about this. It's very nice on paper, but the Trog is only valueable in harms way imho. A Chaarl tie should be kept back. | |
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nedleeds
Warrior
240 Posts
| | 11/08/2005 12:02 PM |
| | I think the Trog Captain is WoTC's way of giving players with a limited pool of figures access to a decent LE commander in the UC slot. Not everybody pulled an Orog :) | |
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