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Aesnath
Underboss
1358 Posts
    
Augusta, GA
 | | 11/06/2005 1:46 PM |
| | recovered topic 11021 | |
**Note: Unless otherwise stated all my minis are unbagged**
My reference thread is at: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12765
Graduate school is swollowing my soul!!!!
Champion of the Raumathari Battlemage!
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Aesnath
Underboss
1358 Posts
Augusta, GA
| | 11/06/2005 1:46 PM |
| | Well, anything's possible, but I don't really think that, right now, even a really strong Balor WB is going to be tier 1. I, personally, still like the idea of tying the Bugbear champ to him, 'cause frighten could be really useful with him. | |
**Note: Unless otherwise stated all my minis are unbagged**
My reference thread is at: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12765
Graduate school is swollowing my soul!!!!
Champion of the Raumathari Battlemage!
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slayer1
Sergeant
597 Posts
| | 11/06/2005 3:01 PM |
| I think the balor works best with an 8 fig limit and I kind of like this Balor band. Haven't gotten a chance to test it yet(don't have underdark yet), though.
Balor 95
Tiefling Captain 21
Ogre Ravager 38
Grimlock Barbarian 28
Orc Warrior x2 6
Deathlock 12
200 points 7 activations | |
Har 25/80 De 35/60 Ar 43/60 GoL 61/72 Ab 42/60 Dk 43/60 Af 51/60 Ud 49/60 WD 50/60 | |
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Kyuketsuki
Warrior
183 Posts
| | 11/06/2005 3:21 PM |
| | Well yesterday i got my Balor; my best friend gave it to me, and since then i have been testing it a lot and telling you the truth i am really impressed with its performance, i have o main warbands, one offcourse with the tiefling and then Balor is used like a heavy hitter with a red samurai and ravager for company with two orc wariors 6 activations mm better after wardrums, and the seond one is without the tiefling using it as a commander been careful of just using in it onw or two rounds after the main batle started offcourse the warband has a pair of cones for filler kill=red tide, so my answear is yes it is going to be tier 1 but in standart after wardrums but i think in epic hes going to rock not necessary been an epic. | |
in a world of eternal darkness theres no shadows to fear.
Kerwin Wolfheart was here | |
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Damien the Bloodfeaster
Sergeant
885 Posts
Portland, OR
| | 11/06/2005 11:47 PM |
| quote:
95 Balor
34 Bugbear Champion of Erythnul
38 Ogre Ravager
11 Cursed Spirit
09 Orc Warrior x3
09 Warrior Skeleton x3
04 Zombie
200 points, 11 activations.
I ran this warband today in a 2 x 2 team battle today with good results (though I forgot to include my Zombie, so I ended up a bit short on points/activations).
The Cursed Spirit and Ogre Ravager make for a nice save-lowering effect. The plenitude of screeners are useful, both to screen against enemy spells and to die heroically so as to boost your initiative rolls heavily. (In the team battles, I often quickly had an initiative of 10+.)
The Balor is fragile when it comes to morale saves, his AC and his overall hit points; however, by the time you ideally bring him in to battle, you should have gained a significant enough initiative boost from Red Tide that you can consistently win initiative, which I found to be crucial, as it allows your hitters (the Balor and Ravager) an opportunity to wound, morale-check, and enslave key attackers.
In my second fight, the Balor was reduced to 10 hit points in 2 rounds...but then he kept winning initiative, and over 2-3 turns enslaved four enemy figures with the help of support.
I think this warband would be quite effective against traditional Quad builds. It can do enough damage vs. Soth in Beholder/Soth that it might well kill him before the Beholder can heal him, especially if you consistently win initiative. A LG band with lots of fearless units might resist Enslave, but probably won't do enough damage on its own. It'll have to be more generally field tested, of course, to determine if it is truly viable as Tier 1, but I have hopes. | | | |
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Aesnath
Underboss
1358 Posts
Augusta, GA
| | 11/07/2005 12:04 AM |
| | I like Damien's build. Why the zombie though? I'd actually like to see how the whole shebang goes off in 8-fig. And I will try an 8-fig balor build when I get one. | |
**Note: Unless otherwise stated all my minis are unbagged**
My reference thread is at: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12765
Graduate school is swollowing my soul!!!!
Champion of the Raumathari Battlemage!
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XAos
Underboss
2401 Posts
London
| | 11/07/2005 5:52 AM |
| Enslave is useless against fearless.
And currently the metagame has a lot of fearless warbands.
Justice Archon's
Frenzied Berserkers
Lord Soth
from Underdark;
Marut
Helmed Horror
Iron Golem
Balor might be a good Tier-2 figure to use against Chraal's or Orc-quads.
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Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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Pauper
Sergeant
508 Posts
| | 11/07/2005 6:39 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sirohk
I saw a previous post on Balor warbands, but are there any other thoughts on what can be teamed with the Balor to possibly make it Tier 1 warband?
I'd say Damien's band is about as close to Tier 1 as the Balor is going to get before Wardrums - that band might even be Tier 1 right now, as the current metagame isn't swarming with Fearless critters.
Oddly, the Balor's Enslave ability would be far stronger if the creature were in LE (Mind Flayer Telepath) or CG (Voice of Battle, War Chanter) - a 25 to 35 point CE critter that could prevent figs from being put under command would launch the Balor into top-tier status overnight, if not make it one of the best figs in the game.
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Pauper | |
Champion of the War Wizard of Cormyr | |
| 
Ack
Underboss
1476 Posts
| | 11/07/2005 12:03 PM |
| Im really impressed with Improved Countersong. Its not only awesome for you, but it eliminated Enslave for example. Sure.. focus yourself on killing a voice of battle.. Im okay with that as I *WHACK* with the FB / Rask / HEBI / etc.
Once we start seeing Balor in constructed, Im switching to CG and annoying the heck out of them. | |
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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 11/07/2005 8:19 PM |
| Very fun Tier 2, not tier 1. Reasons follow:
1) As previsously discussed, we see a lot of fearless creatures.
2) Even if a creature is not fearless, he must fail 2 morale checks. The odds of doing so with a save of 10 and no commander, or a medium creature under command are going to be less than 25% for the enslave. Even with Troglodyte, Cursed Spirit, Ogre Ravager, etc ... helping out, the odds will never be great.
3) The most vulnerable creatures to enslve are low level - and will likely die when hit anyways.
4) High initiative bonuses will soon be very important for terrain initiative. These will also help on morale checks, and will make the odds of an enslavement very, very low.
5) When you get a creature from enslave, it is typically very weak due to damage. It is great to pick up an activation, and to pick up that extra damage potential, but it is likely one or two hits from death as the blow that takes the creature to 50% or less likely took it beyond that 50% mark ...
It is a lot of fun to enslave something, but it is going to be rare, and difficult to do ... | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 11/07/2005 8:30 PM |
| Balor vs Aspect of Orcus
Cost - Balor 95, AoO 91
HP - Balor 125, AoO 100
AC - Balor 20, AoO 21
Speed - Balor F8, AoO F4
Level - Balor 10, AoO 9
Attacks - Balor +16/+16 (20 magic, 10 magic +5 fire), AoO +16/+11 (20 magic)
Both have DR, immune electricity, immune poison, melee reach 2
AoO has blindsight, balor only has blindfight
Balor has immune fire, AoO only has resist 10
AoO has resist 10 cold and acid, balor has neither
Balor has triple damage crits, AoO has a single death blow
Balor has enslave, AoO has cleave
Balor has red tide, which is sort of valuable maybe
AoO is subject to useful friendly commander effects
All in all, the balor is better but it isn't a LOT better. I think most people would say the Aspect of Orcus is not very close to being a competitive piece. I think the distance from AoO to Tier 1 is a lot more than the distance from AoO to Balor, if you catch my meaning. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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Wraith
Warrior
312 Posts
| | 11/07/2005 8:41 PM |
| I was thinking this as:
Balor Special
Balor 95
Bugbear Champ 34
Orc Druid 27-For those Snake Swiftness spells
Leaves 44 points for filler | |
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Damien the Bloodfeaster
Sergeant
885 Posts
Portland, OR
| | 11/07/2005 11:27 PM |
| With regard to Enslave, I found that there's a distinct advantage in taking out fodder or secondary hitters. It relieves pressure from the Balor, makes it harder for enemy hitters to reach him, and poses a threat that the enemy may feel he needs to address. Sure, your Enslaved guy has fewer hit points...but if your opponent attacks it, he's not attacking your Balor. And if he kills it, your initiative goes up another point.
I do agree that on maps he'll be somewhat weaker with terrain initiative (gaining +2 in my build from the Bugbear). The 8-figure limit also hurts him, since it means fewer fodder pieces to kill to bring up activations. You might try bringing in a Cultist of the Dragon for summonings at that point.
Inspired Frenzy bands should do fairly well against him, I'll agree, though you do have the option of egging the FBs with your orcs and skeletons. If he uses Graycloaks and wolves, that should provide an additional bit of initiative boost for you. | | | |
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hardinjmm
Sergeant
573 Posts
Madison, WI
| | 11/08/2005 12:02 AM |
| With regards to the Aspect of Orcus, I think that the big advantage the Balor has over him is speed 8, as opposed to speed 4. Speed 4 is just too slow to be competitive.
Cheers,
Jon | | | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2019 Posts
Portland OR
| | 11/08/2005 2:46 AM |
| really just don't see him viable yet...just like Hezrou he is close but missing that other stuff you need...i predict whatever piece makes one viable will also benifit the other...grimlock babarians are an interesting choice with the cleric of grumish as a back up (10hp on either the grimlock or the Balor will go a long way) and cleave on everyone is lovely...makes grimlock almost orc champ worthy..
the guy who pulled a balor went 2-2 in our sealed tourny and would have been 1-3 if my buddy wasn't a total idiot that round (kobold miner gained 50+ victory points, bad tile placing, as he had no practice before tourny and is a starwars player, and he sent his winter wolf after a mini imune to cold!!!) anyway i don't see him as a big ick... | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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