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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10445 Posts
    
United States
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10445 Posts
United States
| | 11/18/2005 8:53 AM |
| Band 1:
Beholder x3
Lord Soth
Dark Naga
Gauth
Iron golem
Well, that's a lot of saves your opponents will be making--unless they're playing undead or constructs in their bands. It looks like you're relying on the Iron Golem to be your whipping post, but, with his speed, I'd wager that if you're playing an opponent with faster figures (especially if they have flight), your opponent will circumvent this piece and go right after Soth (to whom it is assumed the Iron Golem is tied). The Beholders will probably be able to heal Soth at least twice each round, or, at least, move him around a bit. But, if you're doing that, then you're not being offensive with the Beholders. And, if your opponent is playing a beater (i.e. Aspect of Kord) who can do enough damage, you'll slowly but surely get behind on points. On the other hand, if you can control the flow of battle, and force engagement with the Iron Golem, then your Beholders can provide excellent cover fire, and with Soth able to get one well-timed blast in there, you could do just fine.
Band 2:
Beholder x3
Dark Naga x2
Iron golem x2
Gauth
Not as good a choice. If I see this, I waste my resources going after the two Nagas. Once they're down, it's basically over. If you play defensively, by keeping the Iron Golems close to home, you run the dual risk of not getting assault points and having a cone attack or radius attack launched against your bunched-up units.
The first band is a much better choice. IMHO
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 11/18/2005 12:38 PM |
| Actually both warbands are very slow. The only creature with more than Speed:4 is the Dark Naga. You'll be hard pressed to get tile points in the early game.
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
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bombur
Sergeant
362 Posts
| | 11/18/2005 12:51 PM |
| | If it is a sanctioned tourny speed might not be an issue. The only sanctioned way to play Extreme/Epic is on the Lost temple map which doesn't have victory areas. I vaguely recall a discussion on the WotC boards about how a Queen Peregrine map could be used but I don't remember the details. Even if it is an option a high commander rating could be usefull in getting the game played on Lost Temple anyway. | |
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What you need to know about trading with me. | |
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forkedmoon
Underboss
1305 Posts
| | 11/18/2005 1:12 PM |
| | Any clue as to what others might be playing? High speed and flight teams could cause your second team nightmares. the first team seems to have less builds to which it would be vulnerable. | |
Champion of Cyclops
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10445 Posts
United States
| | 11/18/2005 2:09 PM |
| I'm judging the event, and I'm privvy to a few things that some people are playing. So, I can't say much, it wouldn't be fair. But, I can say this, here are some figures I've seen tested in preparation for the event: Epic Kord, Fomorians, Elminster, Storm Giant, Multiple Beholders, Dual LSD, Three T-Rexes, Multiple big archers, Ghaele Eladrin.
So, there's a good mix of things that people are testing. At last count, there were between 12 and 18 people interested.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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TheBlackFlail
Sneak
57 Posts
| | 11/18/2005 4:59 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by robbdaman
Actually both warbands are very slow. The only creature with more than Speed:4 is the Dark Naga. You'll be hard pressed to get tile points in the early game.
R~
With six beholder activations, you can plop an Iron Golem just about anywhere on the board on the first turn, by telekinising it around. I would go with the second band, Lord Soth just can't hit #$*%& in Epic. | |
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alepulp
Underboss
1538 Posts
Manchester, England
| | 11/18/2005 6:33 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by TheBlackFlail
quote:
Originally posted by robbdaman
Actually both warbands are very slow. The only creature with more than Speed:4 is the Dark Naga. You'll be hard pressed to get tile points in the early game.
R~
With six beholder activations, you can plop an Iron Golem just about anywhere on the board on the first turn, by telekinising it around. I would go with the second band, Lord Soth just can't hit #$*%& in Epic.
Not quite true - even Beholders have to target the closest creature in my recollection... if you have 3 Beholders, they are often the closest to the others... | |
One of these days WoTC will update their tournament page when I'm in the top 5... they never seem to do when I'm in that bracket :(
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azuretide
Sergeant
407 Posts
| | 11/18/2005 6:34 PM |
| | what about replacing human blackguard instead of one of the nagas? | |
Completed trades: bonelock, noilo x2, greylord78, Altayr, Shadow Lord x3, qillan_dvra, symbiotesx2, devasque, smetzger, dulsin, Sir Bozak The Damned, Ironfist Boulderbender x3, tallcar24, Tactician x2, Okay McKay, skwave, dariustad,Eprosen,hung4treason,dog of the underworld,FeranEldritchKnight,Jerry_Damage01,vtloon | |
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Thenameless
Warlord
11730 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 11/18/2005 8:03 PM |
| | I think the warband with Soth is slightly better because of his synergy with the Beholders. He can take a long, long time to eliminate if the Beholders are well placed. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10445 Posts
United States
| | 11/19/2005 9:36 AM |
| This is kinda on topic. . . .
It can be really hard, on some of these maps, to place three Huge figures on start areas (for one player, that is).
[:)]
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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bshugg
Underboss
1833 Posts
| | 11/19/2005 10:44 AM |
| Theres really no need for 2 Nagas. A blackguard would help you win map initiative (VERY IMPORTANT between the 2 choices) and basically makes your beholders fearless which can matter at times. Plus he's a solid commander to tie iron golems to.
One thing your completely over looking is tile points. If you lose map init, your opponent can play the smoke map and get a 50 point lead before you can really do anything. Its really easy to hold that lead once its gained. Especially against a slow band.
With 500 points you have the opportunity to mix the most abusive figs LE has to offer. Cover all the weaknesses of the format and maps first, then try to build for offense. If you don't cover the weaknesses your opponents will be sure to exploit them. I may be coming down and I certainly will. [:)]
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10445 Posts
United States
| | 11/19/2005 11:06 AM |
| Bshugg is entirely right about "tile" points. I watched/played in four matches last night. On the Hellspike map (the smoky one), if you win initiative, you can really do a number on your opponent by getting these points and preventing your opponent from getting them. There are a few ways to deal with this.
1) Win initiative (somewhat outside your control, given that damn d20). An initiative modifier of +4 or better is basically mandatory, and one of +6 or better is highly desirable.
2) Have very-high-speed, reasonably-tough pieces to acquire those points (somewhat challenging in 500-point LE bands).
3) Have "teleporting" pieces grab those "tiles" for you (easy to do with an Archmage, or Githyanki Fighter, for example).
4) Prevent your opponent from getting those points (not the easiest to do if you lose both map and placement initiative).
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Liquidburn
Sergeant
944 Posts
| | 11/19/2005 11:18 PM |
| | I agree on the tile points issue. They are huge in Epic. 25 points a round adds up very fast and can sway the came one way or another. The hellspike map is definitely the worst for you if you are playing a band that's slow. They are gauranteed to be up 50-75 points before the battle starts and it can be almost impossible to stop them after that, especially since most people aren't going to be using wimpy peices for tile grabbers. | |
Jason Slingerland
"Why do I have to be Mr. Pink?" | |
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CSchroder
Sergeant
415 Posts
| | 11/20/2005 6:14 AM |
| I played in an Epic tournament yesterday and we used Lost Temple and no tile points. I couldn't find tile points for a 500 point listed in the Floor Rules (May 2005) so either they've been updated (probably and I haven't read it) or people have better info that the store owner or I (not surprising [:)]).
Anyhow, this was my first 500 point tournament so I wasn't even aware that we'd be using Lost Temple and made the mistake of including Rikka in my warband! Oh well, no waylay for me.
Several people did play Beholder-Iron Golem warbands and I faced one in the finals. I actually faced two Epic Iron Golems in my 3 games and I was not impressed by them in comparison to the Epic Aspect of Kord I was using. The Aspect of Kord crushed both Epic Iron Golems fairly easily. Of course I was rolling pretty well--at least 3 crits (even though you can't crit a construct it was still 40 or 50 damage before his 5 pt armor reduction) and snake swiftness helped.
I used a Large Silver Dragon to protect the Aspect of Kord from the Beholder's nasty eyes. Good luck but be aware that there are faster and harder hitters than the Epic Iron Golem. | |
Charles AKA The Beardless One, Proud Member of Team Amish | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10445 Posts
United States
| | 11/20/2005 8:47 AM |
| I was thinking about this thread yesterday and trying to imagine spoiler bands. I decided to start with the Balor since the epic version's got that wicked "I roll a 20 and you're dead" thing going for him.
Band 1
Balor
Nightwalker
5-point chump
Admittedly, this band sucks on activations and will probably lose. But, you have no choice but to go after the Nightwalker and the Balor because, well, because that's all that's out there. Even if it's played somewhat poorly, the Nightwalker can still drive you crazy, and if you don't kill him, you have to either get way ahead on assault points or keep your own figures alive all game.
Band 2
Balor (epic)
Mordenkainen
5-point chump
This band is probably a little easier to deal with than my first, but it's nearly as annonying. I assume that the player will keep Mordenkainen next to the Balor whenever possible, making it really hard for you to avoid Mordenkainen's pesky spells all game. On the other hand, a few well-placed attacks gets Mordenkainen out of the picture early.
So, I started thinking about maximizing the Balor's Enslave ability and came up with this.
Band 3
Balor
Huge Red Dragon
Hezrou
Cursed Spirit x2
Red Samurai x2
Abyssal Skulker
There are, I'm sure, better ways to spend the 87 points after the two Cursed Spirits are added. It was pretty late last night when I came up with this one. But, if you can get the HRD, Hezrou, and a Cursed Spirit around some enemy when it comes time to make those morale saves, you stand a decent chance of enslaving your opponent's piece. And, wouldn't it be great if you enslaved something like a Storm Giant or an Aspect of Kord?
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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azuretide
Sergeant
407 Posts
| | 11/20/2005 9:21 AM |
| What about:
Mina
beholder x2
HRD
green dragon
grim necro
cursed spirit
something else undead for summon undead III
protection
good moral
tile points
lots of activations | |
Completed trades: bonelock, noilo x2, greylord78, Altayr, Shadow Lord x3, qillan_dvra, symbiotesx2, devasque, smetzger, dulsin, Sir Bozak The Damned, Ironfist Boulderbender x3, tallcar24, Tactician x2, Okay McKay, skwave, dariustad,Eprosen,hung4treason,dog of the underworld,FeranEldritchKnight,Jerry_Damage01,vtloon | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10445 Posts
United States
| | 11/20/2005 9:48 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by azuretide
What about:
Mina
beholder x2
HRD
green dragon
grim necro
cursed spirit
something else undead for summon undead III
If you really want to play a HRD in LE, then, of course, Mina is the way to go. But, I see a few weaknesses in the band.
First, both Mina and the Grim Necromancer have substantial weaknesses. Mina is really slow and so usually by round 2, most of the rest of your band will be pretty far away from her. The Grim Necromancer is really squishy, and if he goes, you lose the summoned beings as well.
As a result, you'll have to force your enemy to deal with the HRD. If you can do that, then your Beholder artillery support could really work well.
But, now that I think about it, I don't know that two Beholders are your best option. I mean, that's a lot of points you're tying up if you're only doing inflict wounds once in a while. How about this?
Mina
HRD
Beholder
Gauth
Justicator (flight, decent damage)
Dark Naga (making the Beholder and Gauth a bigger threat)
Barbarian Mercenary (in case the Gauth paralyzes someone, and backup tile grabber)
Wolf Skeleton (tile grabber)
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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