Gnolaum
Sergeant
854 Posts
    
 | | 12/02/2005 1:03 PM |
| Core Band
1x Young Master
2x Githzerai Monk
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112pts, 3 activations
Modules
Max AC
AC is the Githzerai Monks strength. Personally I don't think it needs to be strengthened furthur, but if you want to...
1x Githzerai Monk
1x Dwarf Artificer
1x Eberk, Adventurer
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183 pts 6 activations
Too much of a good thing
Githzerai is good, more is better.
2x Githzerai Monk
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180 pts 5 activations
Other Monks
I think the Githzerai Monk beats out every other Monk except of Ulmo.
1x Ulmo
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189 pts, 4 activations
Couatl
A weakness that the Githzerai faces is autodamage that bypasses its AC. Most of this autodamage is elemental in nature, and the Couatl helps with that.
1x Couatl
1x Githerai Monk
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188 pts 5 activations
Couatl + Rikka
Couatl allows CG outsiders, and right now there are 2 worth considering: Rikka and Aspect of Kord. Aspect of Kord can't fit, so that just leaves Rikka. She is perfect for ambushing a commander and has a much higher attack bonus that the Githzerai Monk, shoring up another weakness the monk has.
1x Couatl
1x Rikka
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185 pts 5 activations
Not Necessarily Smart Tech
1x Githzerai Monk
1x Druid of Obad-Hai
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175 pts, 5 (+4) activations
Fodder & Tech
Man @ Arms - 3pts
Hill Dwarf Warrior - 4pts
Azer Raider - 5pts
Sun Soul Initiate - 8 pts (Cheapest Stunning Attack)
Standard Bearer - 10 pts
Healer - 12pts (up to 60 pts of healing over 5 rounds, remove Paralysis)
Lantern Bearer - 12pts (Illuminator, Mystic Light)
Aramil Adventurer - 13pts (Ray of Enfeeblementm Magic Missile)
Eberk Adventurer - 16 pts (+1 AC, +1 saves)
Ember, Human Monk - 18 pts (speed 10, 2 stunning attacks)
Dwarf Artificier - 21 pts (+2 AC, +2 attack)
Druid of Obad-Hai - 29 pts (Activation Control)
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wicked cool
Underboss
2129 Posts
| | 12/02/2005 2:52 PM |
| | i like rikka with the monks but she isnt talked about much as a good/bad piece? | |
The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
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Chad the DragonLordofAiur
Underboss
1085 Posts
Southeast PA
| | 12/02/2005 4:55 PM |
| I prefer this build:
Young Master
Couatl
Githzerai Monk x3
Timber Wolf
Hill Dwarf Warrior
Man At Arms
So far the only bad match I have seen (Without playtesting) is YM\GMx4.
To all you monk pilots out there - What have you lost to if anything? | |
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My combined DDM Skirmish record of all games ever played in all formats.
486 - 188 - 4 | |
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Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 12/02/2005 5:42 PM |
| | I have yet to lose with my triple monk band. | |
I am not gone. | |
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jos1-1
Sergeant
829 Posts
| | 12/02/2005 5:50 PM |
| a drizzts band with counter song beat my monk band up bad, i killed two fodder (ouch).
But i dont think rikka is a good mini for the monks, she's an unber mini sure but i donno, i rather run an ulmo | |
Poor student looking for minis =D | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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nycfarmkid
Underboss
1210 Posts
Wadsworth, OH
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Dagni
Sergeant
870 Posts
| | 12/02/2005 8:54 PM |
| As far as Fodder and Tech, Devis deserves a big mention. The better the band, the greater the importance of the mirror matchup. Devis is great against another Monk band.
- Dagni | |
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Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 12/02/2005 11:28 PM |
| Devis is CG, the monks are LG. Maybe you are thinking of the Standard Bearer?
Jesse | |
I am not gone. | |
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rhane
Underboss
1412 Posts
| | 12/03/2005 2:05 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Chad the DragonLordofAiur
To all you monk pilots out there - What have you lost to if anything?
My YM, GMx2, Ulmo band lost to Casantos Urthok, Snig, Efreeti, Chraal, 2x Duergar on Drow Outpost. I started on the "bad" side (right top corner).
Other than that, my monks have done well. The best band I've run is the YM, GMx4. | |
Rhane
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Krush
Commander
3851 Posts
| | 12/03/2005 2:17 AM |
| I have been playing this.
Gith Monks x4
Ember
Young Master
In your face brutality. Of course it depends on what map is your flavor. The Magma Keep is great, why? I'll tell you wy, speed 10 warband is deadly! I learned my lesson against another skirmisher who played a varient of this in 100 pt on the Magma Keep map. Gith monks are totally cool and more so with the young master.
Me like alot-too much. [:D] | |
Gehenna | |
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vudumumu
Sneak
83 Posts
| | 12/03/2005 3:14 AM |
| | Magma Keep is pretty good for the monk bands. However, Commander 3 won't guarentee you get to choose Magma Keep goodness. | | | |
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vudumumu
Sneak
83 Posts
| | 12/03/2005 3:28 AM |
| | double post, sorry | | | |
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alepulp
Underboss
1538 Posts
Manchester, England
| | 12/03/2005 6:24 AM |
| | I have yet to lose with my version of the YM and Gith x 3 warband - having said that, all games were close. | |
One of these days WoTC will update their tournament page when I'm in the top 5... they never seem to do when I'm in that bracket :(
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 12/03/2005 7:25 AM |
| The Monks are crazy strong and don't have any really bad matchups. Even stuff immune to crits/stuns still has to stand up to a potential 60 damage first rd.
Duergar are one of the tougher matchups as they have conceal and can reliably hit the monks back. That matchup is still tough for the Duergar and relies alot on the map init. They don't want to fight them on the Mines or something where the Monks have lots of paths. | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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Ack
Underboss
1476 Posts
| | 12/03/2005 1:05 PM |
| Druegar / Helmed Horror can beat Monks.
Constructs can beat Monks.
Elemental DD can beat monks.
There are alot of good bands out there.. every band has bad matchups. | |
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nedleeds
Warrior
240 Posts
| | 12/03/2005 1:45 PM |
| I had success against a 3 monk band with:
Orog Warlord (+Mountain Orc, Orc Warrior)
Duergar Champion x 2
Helmed Horror
Wolf Skeleton
Warrior Skeleton x 3
Again on the Drow Outpost, and my HH rolled two critical hits. I even feel I played poorly as I over extended my HH to use him for flanking. But it's definitely a tough band to play against, the board is so short for 10 move figures. | |
Champion of Zarak - Evil Half-Orc Assassin | |
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TroglodyteWizard89
Warrior
346 Posts
USA
| | 12/03/2005 1:50 PM |
| Out of many games with monks, ive lost twice.
Once to a 2xchraal Helmed horror build
and once to a Clay Golem HEBI Moon Elf Fighter Build(the second was kind of a fluke, but still a depressing loss.) Anything that can take normal damage from an unavoidable strike and no stun will be a difficult foe for gith monks. | |
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 12/03/2005 3:04 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ack
Druegar / Helmed Horror can beat Monks.
Constructs can beat Monks.
Elemental DD can beat monks.
There are alot of good bands out there.. every band has bad matchups.
Yeah they all can, but the thing is alot of those can beat in theory.
Duergar/Helmed Horror is the toughest match probably. As stated alot of this is going to depend on maps. You really want the drow outpost or someplace where you can control traffic.
Constructs again, depends on the construct. Clay Golem looks nice, but unless they have no access to your commander he is in confusion land. Anything that requires commander as well.
Chraals can be a tough match up but you have to play it perfect and leave no hole to the commander.
Elemental DD looks great, but if they are runnin the couatl (the superior version IMO) that cuts that weakness, and on maps they are so fast that you have MAYBE one rd to get off elemental direct damage spells before you are based. With that in mind you have to bring solid blockers as well, as you can't rely totally on the casters. | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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Mr_Nived
Skirmisher
38 Posts
| | 12/03/2005 3:49 PM |
| I just beat a gith monk / young master band. The player was prety good he also used CoDA and some man at arms.
My Band:
1x Lord Soth
2x Chaarl
1x Snig + sniglets
2x Baaz Draconians
We didnt actualy finish but by the time he left he had 2 gith monks 1 at 35 the other at 5, his CoDA was at 45 and his YM was at 55. I had lost a baaz and a gobo skirmisher. One chaarl was at 75 and the rest of my band was fine. I have to agree elemental damage is a big pain for these type bands. | |
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 12/03/2005 4:04 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Nived
I just beat a gith monk / young master band. The player was prety good he also used CoDA and some man at arms.
My Band:
1x Lord Soth
2x Chaarl
1x Snig + sniglets
2x Baaz Draconians
We didnt actualy finish but by the time he left he had 2 gith monks 1 at 35 the other at 5, his CoDA was at 45 and his YM was at 55. I had lost a baaz and a gobo skirmisher. One chaarl was at 75 and the rest of my band was fine. I have to agree elemental damage is a big pain for these type bands.
That is a type of build that has good anti-monk potential. Even more so if they don't run Couatl. Though Soth's to hit isn't anything to write home about. The big key to monk hate is YM hate. | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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CSchroder
Sergeant
415 Posts
| | 12/03/2005 7:12 PM |
| Alepulp, you didn't finish beating my Render-Dual Red Sam warband with your monks! In fact, I had all my main figs. However, it didn't look good for CE when we stopped our game and I expected you to clean my clock . . ..
Speaking of cleaning my clock, Dagni absolutely destroyed my HBG-Dual Chraals-Helmed Horror-Duergar Champ warband. Probably the wrong mix--should have gone more Chraals or gotten rid of them and gone with Duergar Champs. Gith Monks easily got through any holes I left in my lines, willing to take AoO's with impunity.
AD and I have discussed countersong as a possible means to slow down the monk destruction.
CSchroder | |
Charles AKA The Beardless One, Proud Member of Team Amish | |
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nycfarmkid
Underboss
1210 Posts
Wadsworth, OH
| | 12/03/2005 9:27 PM |
| I ran a YM 2 gith's ulmo with 2 man at arms vs a three chraal band.
I was trouble and i knew it. I decided to go after his commander's with ulmo and YM. First he blocked his commanders off with the chraals on the left and right (wall in the middle). I moved in with my two giths vs the two chraals on the left while ulmo was right in the back throwing stuff at the one on the right, he went for the monks with the one of the right leaving an opening to his commanders. ulmo didnt have enough speed to reach them but he had just enough to get two a point i blocked the chraals off from quick access to his commanders. but still he went after my two monks. I ran ulmo up and ym and started to lay the beats on his commander. he got one chraal over to me after killing a monk but by then it was two late. i killed commander off (along with 2 chraals) and then lay waste to the other. but ya this was a bad match up for me and i should have been beaten if the other guy had played a little better. (he was not a newbi he played longer then me, he was just mad i was using a halfling, people at my local store hate them just because.)
i was rather happy to see the gith as my 5 W steel monks and YM band was not very good, lol.
sorry if i made any error its late and iam tired | |
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nycfarmkid
Underboss
1210 Posts
Wadsworth, OH
| | 12/03/2005 10:51 PM |
| quote:
[i]Originally posted by nycfarmkid[/i]
[br]I ran a YM 2 gith's ulmo with 2 man at arms vs a three chraal band.
I was trouble and i knew it. I decided to go after his commander's with ulmo and YM. First he blocked his commanders off with the chraals on the left and right (wall in the middle). I moved in with my two giths vs the two chraals on the left while ulmo was right in the back throwing stuff at the one on the right, he went for the monks with the one of the right leaving an opening to his commanders. ulmo didnt have enough speed to reach them but he had just enough to get two a point i blocked the chraals off from quick access to his commanders. but still he went after my two monks. I ran ulmo up and ym and started to lay the beats on his commander. he got one chraal over to me after killing a monk but by then it was two late. i killed commander off (along with 2 chraals) and then lay waste to the other. but ya this was a bad match up for me and i should have been beaten if the other guy had played a little better. (he was not a newbi he played longer then me, he was just mad i was using a halfling, people at my local store hate them just because.)
i was rather happy to see the gith as my 5 W steel monks and YM band was not very good, lol.
sorry if i made any error its late and iam tired
ummm this is my post... i was logged in under my name when i posted this. sorry nycfarmkid i have no clue how that could have happened. | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10445 Posts
United States
| | 12/04/2005 9:17 AM |
| I wonder how a triple-Gauth band would do against a triple-Gith band? Sure, the Gauths are in trouble once the Monks arrive, but auto-damage will slow them down (unless there's a Couatl nearby). I would think a Beholder band might have a chance against the Gith Monks too; level 9 is nothing to ignore, but if you have to make enough saves, you'll eventually lose some.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 9:52 AM |
| There are a number of reasons that I think those match-ups aren't anything too much to be worried about, the most convincing of which is the fact that Monks are Speed 10 while the beholder is speed 2/4 and the gauth is speed 3. Its not too difficult to remain out of sight of those sorts of pieces until you can move in and pull off a monk coup de grace. 90 damage is pretty devestating to a beholder and 3 30 damage strikes are enough to force each of those gauths to make a morale save.
Besides, you also have an untapped tool in the form of the save 12 young master (when facing the beholder) and the afore-mentioned couatl. Its things like the gauth, chraal, red samurai, helmed horror, and elf pyromancer which makes me believe the couatl is a vital component to a gith monk band and that the best configuration is 3 gith monks, young master, couatl, filler. | |
I am not gone. | |
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Phrank
Warrior
235 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 10:18 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha
coup de gras.
::cough:: coup de grâce ::cough:: because like you wrote it : fat hit,[:D]
Honestly i agree about the 3 gauth the main problem is that with 3 gauth you got absolutly no meat to slow the Gith monk, and 3 gauth are awfully squishy target, Crit+stun 30 dmg and an empowered orb and it is done. For the beholder i think it is the same problem, and with the +12 with evade dmg of the YM... it will be hard | |
Complete set: hummm all
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Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 10:22 AM |
| You are lucky I am not corrupt, because if I was I would sooo delete your post to hide my shame. As it is I edited it. Erm, I mean, that it was always like that.
Yes, yessss thats the ticket! | |
I am not gone. | |
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johnny.quest
Underboss
1364 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 12:08 PM |
| | How would you complement YM and Gith Monks in a 12 figure-limit game? | | | |
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Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 12:41 PM |
| | Not sure. I don't really play or think about 12 figures anymore. | |
I am not gone. | |
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Teach
Sneak
140 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 11:04 PM |
| Johhny.quest,
In 12 activation, I would try to get to about 9-10 activations. Getting to 12 activations is pretty difficult with gith bands and usually means you have to take a gith out to do so (which is probably not a good idea), but I think their speed and AC and stunning attack help to minimalize the disadvantage that giths bands have with lower activations.
The speed helps you correct for any feignt your opponent makes, the high AC means that you can count on your opponents missing fairly often in melee, and stunning attack prevents enemy units from retalitating when you base them (as long as the stun is successful).
A gith band I played against had 9 activations (i believe), and kept 2 of the 3 pieces of fodder on the starting tile so they didn't ever have a chance to die. So while at the beginning i had the activation advantage, by the time figures started dying and my pieces got stunned, he had more than made up the difference. | |
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Feathers
Underboss
1140 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 11:34 PM |
| Guy Fullerton won our recent 11-man tourney in Oakland, CA with a 12-activation Gith Monk band. It featured
Young Master
3xGith Monks
Justice Archon
Hill Dwarf Warrior
6xMan-at-arms
12 activations and 200 pts exactly. | |
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Teach
Sneak
140 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 11:57 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Feathers
Guy Fullerton won our recent 11-man tourney in Oakland, CA with a 12-activation Gith Monk band. It featured
Young Master
3xGith Monks
Justice Archon
Hill Dwarf Warrior
6xMan-at-arms
12 activations and 200 pts exactly.
That's a pretty good band. The band I've played against used 4x Giths and a standard bearer so he didn't have to engage with the young master which is why he didn't have all 12 activations, but it didn't seem to hurt him at all as he went 4-0 up her in the twin cities. I'd link to the report in the tournament section but, um yeah, don't know where it is anymore. :)
I guess I was wrong to say you can't really get to 12 activations, but also you don't really have to to be successful with a gith/ym band. | |
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Chad the DragonLordofAiur
Underboss
1085 Posts
Southeast PA
| | 12/05/2005 12:07 AM |
| 1. What map is everybody using with the monk band?
2. What map is best for them?
3. What map is worst for them? | |
Member of Team Amish
3rd Place in 2007 Constructed World Championship
My combined DDM Skirmish record of all games ever played in all formats.
486 - 188 - 4 | |
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 12/05/2005 12:17 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Chad the DragonLordofAiur
1. What map is everybody using with the monk band?
2. What map is best for them?
3. What map is worst for them?
From what I've seen/heard and would be my guess as it is, the worst map for them is the Drow Outpost as it had an obvious choke point and not alot of paths for them to take. The mithril mines seems very favorable for the opposite reason, there are alot of paths and holes for them to bounce through. | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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Slippy Fist
Skirmisher
48 Posts
| | 12/05/2005 12:21 AM |
| I would think wide open maps are best for the Giths. When I play it I try to get Fane of Lloth so I can get to any of my opponents pieces with relative ease.
Everytime Ive played them on the defensive I try to get drow outpost or mithril mines so its hard (but not impossible) for them to gang up on individual pieces.
Drow Outpost would probably be the worst as your opponent, if he starts next to the building can get early line of sight while you fight across the bridge. | |
body like a jellyfish, mind like a scientist | |
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warchanter
Sergeant
391 Posts
Italy
| | 12/05/2005 6:50 AM |
| With this band I've won several games:
Young master
Githzerai monk x 4
Aasimar favored soul (to boost up attacks and eliminate conceal from enemies) | |
Nexxstalker on WoTC Boards | |
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Gloom_
Sergeant
583 Posts
| | 12/05/2005 8:13 AM |
| | Not tried giths, but my only concern is that after that unavoidable strike is gone, +9 isn't really that high. You can probably negate it with flanking and so on, but I'd have thought that high AC's might be a little bit of a problem for them. Not much, but a concern maybe. Again, only played one once, so I'm not really one to judge.. | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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fallaxdraco
Skirmisher
6 Posts
| | 12/05/2005 10:45 AM |
| A few days ago, I played Guy Fullerton's exact band(without ever seeing it before-must be an optimized build) against a Dark Naga/Beholder/Duergar Champx2 band... on Drow Outpost... and I started on the bad side.
I was torn to pieces - mainly because 2 of the three unavoidable strikes failed conceal on the Naga, and the one I ran around the back was telekinesised into the pit, failing both saves and dying.
I ran my JA up the side over the pit... and it got turned to stone. Then Young master got pounded by Champs, failed morale, and it was over. This is a very good band... but does have bad matchups.
Those DC 19 beholder saves are brutal, and TK into the pit is surprisingly effective against low/medium save creatures, considering there can be two a round. | |
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