nycfarmkid
Underboss
1210 Posts
    
Wadsworth, OH
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Slippy Fist
Skirmisher
48 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 1:11 AM |
| | uhmm I posted the above post why did it show up under nycfarmkid's name? | |
body like a jellyfish, mind like a scientist | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10445 Posts
United States
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Ack
Underboss
1476 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 11:35 AM |
| | I would be concerned about monks using their speed, looping around and forcing Orog to make a MC / die. then you are left with speed 2 pieces that they can dance circles around, gobbling up tile points as needed. | |
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Orion72
Underboss
1917 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 12:01 PM |
| Monks can do that with almost any band. Slippy obviously found a way to work around it, since he beat the monk band.
The fourth hitter in the emerging LE Quad is the Chraal. Sure, tying one to an Orog is risky, but it's not like the Orog is squishy or especially prone to fleeing. Of course, if you're risk-adverse, trade the Chraal down to a D Champ or up to an HH (as slippy did).
I don't see an LE Quad like this holding up to a traditional CE Quad, but it still has a ton of potential and some very good match-ups. | | | |
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Istari
Skirmisher
28 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 3:15 PM |
| Yeah, while LE beats quad is decent its not CE quad (beats).
Its a good band, but the current meta favors a little more 'trixy' approach for LE quad to be successful which is more like:
Dark Naga
Helmed Horror
Duergar Champion x2
Gauth
Warrior skeleton x3
Basically since the Naga can Bigby's slapping hand twice,
you can kill almost any beatstick band currently in the game within 2 turns.
The damage output is insane, and the Gauth ensures 'problem' targets will get stunned and auto hit for 15 as well. The Gauths ability to target the second closest target is key in providing effecient counter measures.
I ran this quad LE band last night and went 4-0 winning my first tourney.
Even against Gruumsh/Orc Champ bands,the Orcs can usually only kill up to 1 Duergar Champ before they are all slain.
Not too mention this warband can utterly crush Monk bands (even when running Coutl) as long as one does not overextend exposing the Dark Naga to multiple monks.
I like your warband but I'm a little worried it doesn't have as much offensive traits that define a lot of bands these days. | |
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Ack
Underboss
1476 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 4:20 PM |
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tieing Chraal to an Orog is Risky? He is arguably the sturidiest commander in LE?? Who better to tie him to.. well, except that you plan on using Orog in melee.
I run LE with Urthok and 4 beaters (combos of HH, Chraal and Duergar Champs). Not owning a Gauth yet I dont have the choice.. Its pretty decent (4-2 in stiff local competition) but I dont think its going to go with me up to the regional competition. Someone is going to have to come up with something special (maybe the Gauth / Dark Naga combo) to bring it up to Tier 1. | |
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nycfarmkid
Underboss
1210 Posts
Wadsworth, OH
| | 12/04/2005 4:53 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Vrecknidj
quote:
Originally posted by Slippy Fist
uhmm I posted the above post why did it show up under nycfarmkid's name?
Gremlins.
Dave
This is the best explanation i've heard so far...
quote:
tieing Chraal to an Orog is Risky? He is arguably the sturidiest commander in LE?? Who better to tie him to.. well, except that you plan on using Orog in melee.
I run LE with Urthok and 4 beaters (combos of HH, Chraal and Duergar Champs). Not owning a Gauth yet I dont have the choice.. Its pretty decent (4-2 in stiff local competition) but I dont think its going to go with me up to the regional competition. Someone is going to have to come up with something special (maybe the Gauth / Dark Naga combo) to bring it up to Tier 1.
You may want to look at the dark naga even in if you dont have a Gauth. It has more HP and a higher level than Urthok. Also it has some nice psells.
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Balrog
Sneak
169 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 5:10 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Istari
Yeah, while LE beats quad is decent its not CE quad (beats).
Its a good band, but the current meta favors a little more 'trixy' approach for LE quad to be successful which is more like:
Dark Naga
Helmed Horror
Duergar Champion x2
Gauth
Warrior skeleton x3
I love this band. the naga can clear smaller pieces and filler out with lightning before they ever hit you, and bigby's is nuts in quad bands. conceal is critical in this new enviroment where monks can auto crit and try for stun. MSD warbands are also becoming popular, and besides the gauth the saves are excellent for the cones, and JAs are at there best here by any means. Ce quad should be easy, tahts where the gauth shines. in an 8 activation format this band seems very solid. | |
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TroglodyteWizard89
Warrior
346 Posts
USA
| | 12/04/2005 5:46 PM |
| I find running a chraal or two with the Orog isnt a bad idea at all. The orog is sturdy, and the chraals breath weapon clears out or damages most first wave attackers. Off the top of my head, i cant think of a stronger commander to tie a chraal to, and he increases activations.
I ran this band with relatively high success
Orog Warlord(1 savage, 1 brute)
Gauth
Chraal x2
Snig the Axe(3 gob skirms)
200 points, 10 activations
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Champion of Troglodytes!
Guy Who Cant Get Anything Exact
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Squire of Runic Guardian, gets shield Guardian) | |
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 5:49 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Balrog
quote:
Originally posted by Istari
Yeah, while LE beats quad is decent its not CE quad (beats).
Its a good band, but the current meta favors a little more 'trixy' approach for LE quad to be successful which is more like:
Dark Naga
Helmed Horror
Duergar Champion x2
Gauth
Warrior skeleton x3
I love this band. the naga can clear smaller pieces and filler out with lightning before they ever hit you, and bigby's is nuts in quad bands. conceal is critical in this new enviroment where monks can auto crit and try for stun. MSD warbands are also becoming popular, and besides the gauth the saves are excellent for the cones, and JAs are at there best here by any means. Ce quad should be easy, tahts where the gauth shines. in an 8 activation format this band seems very solid.
What MSD bands have you seen that are popular? | |
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jos1-1
Sergeant
829 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 5:58 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Slippy Fist
uhmm I posted the above post why did it show up under nycfarmkid's name?
I donno I've also had the same problem in a different thread, I would really like for someone to tell me whats going on with that. (Dang thos gremlin computer hackers!)
Anyways i think this looks like a cool band. two of the HH and champ seem solid enough to dish a beating and take one two. | |
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Slippy Fist
Skirmisher
48 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 6:44 PM |
| I really like the Helmed Horrors, they get the benefits of being a construct, good to hits, blindsight, 22 AC, decent damage, fearless, flying and great spell immunities. It doesnt get much better.
When I was playing I would lead with the HH's and clean up damaged pieces with the Orog and Duergar. Lots of cleaves happening there. Out of the four hitters the Duergar has the lowest to hit bonuses at +15/+10.
The Orog is very survivable btw. He did die in the monk match but it was late in the game but the young master died much sooner. And once you engage their hitters the Orogs commander effect pretty much guarentees you are going to hit most pieces out there.
I do like the Dark Naga/Gauth/HH/Duergar x2 band as well.
Ive been playing alot of LE lately. I really appreciate the love its been getting in the recent sets.
Thanks to all for your feedback. | |
body like a jellyfish, mind like a scientist | |
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TruNutral88
Sergeant
522 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 8:36 PM |
| quote:
Ive been playing alot of LE lately. I really appreciate the love its been getting in the recent sets.
Yeha, i have a LE feddish (probably spelled wrong, heh) at the moment. | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2637 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 12/04/2005 8:41 PM |
| | LE is he coolest. It has the most variety. | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
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nycfarmkid
Underboss
1210 Posts
Wadsworth, OH
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11730 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 12/04/2005 9:26 PM |
| | The one commander more solid than the Orog Warlord is Lord Soth. Undead have nice immunities, and are fearless to boot. But, then you're really hurting for activations. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Ack
Underboss
1476 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 9:33 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Thenameless
The one commander more solid than the Orog Warlord is Lord Soth. Undead have nice immunities, and are fearless to boot. But, then you're really hurting for activations.
Fair enough..
As for Urthok over Naga - hes fewer points and his commander effect supports beaters. Its a choice.. | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11730 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 12/04/2005 9:38 PM |
| | But, I still think that the Orog and the Blackguard are the best options overall. | |
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jos1-1
Sergeant
829 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 9:44 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Thenameless
But, I still think that the Orog and the Blackguard are the best options overall.
I donno about the blackguard but i also like soth better, fireball take care of thos two extra fodder. and soth wont run like the orge might. point cost only thing i really like the orge for. | |
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Istari
Skirmisher
28 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 10:32 PM |
| Orog is more tech friendly than Soth,though.
Soth isn't much of a threat (as lame as that sounds because Soth is da man!) because of his points.
Soth will do ok against monks which is probably the best you can say, but Soth is a huge point sink in 200 pts. This unavoidable liability can easily be worked with but not around. Many of the bands currently dominating (from my rather newbish perspective) are highly effecient, multiple threat "it doesn't matter what I face, I'll have similar results regardless of tech" warbands.
Mainly Monks,LE Chraal(HBG based copy of Fenrirs), and LE quad (with Naga,HH,Deurgar champs etc...)
are the big ones.
Maybe CE quad,Inspired Frenzy, and to a lesser extent Archmage w/Greycloak hordes.
But realistically, Quad beaters won't be able to keep up with the consistant high damage output of a teamed up Helm Horror w/ Duergar champion backed by a Naga casting Bigby's slapping hand. This doesn't even have to include a second champ or a Gauth (though both make it an exceptionally good band)
because the overall AC and to hit are so high on the Champion and HH.
To put it this way,
I've seen:
3 Orc Champions
LSD
Balor
Double Marut's
and a Zombie White Dragon
trip Death Slaad
each fall in 2 rounds or less because of Bigby's Slapping Hand.
While I do think there are answers to these newer types of warbands, I don't think the answer is running a strictly 'beats' LE quad band.
Warbands such as CE quad beats are still fairly more threatening than a strictly LE beat band.
but I may be wrong.
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Zippy
Underboss
1993 Posts
Whitewater, WI
| | 12/04/2005 10:46 PM |
| | Are there any CE Quads that fare well against gith/YM? Seems CE Quad will be scarce if not. | |
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Feathers
Underboss
1140 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 10:58 PM |
| CE Quad is still plenty powerful. It came within a roll or two of winning the GenCon Indy championship afterall.
I think traditional Quad (Eye, Red Sam, Rav, OC, Tiefling) needs some tweaks to account for the new post-Ang/post-UD bands, but CE Quad can still be very strong. Higher saves are more important these days because of the Gith Monk's stuns and prevalence of high DC atks from LE, but CE still cannot be topped in terms of damage.
It definitely seems like people have moved away from CE as they test out and enjoy new LG and LE bands. But I don't think this is because traditional CE is now weak. It's just that other factions have now become better and people wanna try them out. | |
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Slippy Fist
Skirmisher
48 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 11:50 PM |
| I think that Raksasha is a better choice than the Dark Naga if your not running any abberations.
And Human Blackguard is better than both unless your running multiple Helmed Horror since they are fearless all ready.
I dont think Soth works well in a "hitter" type band, hes too many points. Beholder/Soth is still one of my favorite warbands though. | |
body like a jellyfish, mind like a scientist | |
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nycfarmkid
Underboss
1210 Posts
Wadsworth, OH
| | 12/05/2005 12:31 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Slippy Fist
I think that Raksasha is a better choice than the Dark Naga if your not running any abberations.
And Human Blackguard is better than both unless your running multiple Helmed Horror since they are fearless all ready.
I dont think Soth works well in a "hitter" type band, hes too many points. Beholder/Soth is still one of my favorite warbands though.
I've found myself to be pretty partial to the lightning bolts of the Dark Naga. However I must admit I've had almost no experience running the Rakshasha. | |
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