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Kire
Skirmisher
29 Posts
    
 | | 12/21/2005 12:24 PM |
| I was looking at picking a few mini's that arent too popular due to crappy/unbalanced stats, making a few suggestions and then we can discuss what is the most appropriate 'makeover' for that mini.
Note that we shouldn't necessarily try to 'optimise' the mini and turn it into tier 1, maybe just smooth out the edges.
I know tournament DDM players will not care about this coz of fudged stats, and I do apologise if this type of thing has been done already.
If there is a good response maybe other people can start up their own nominated mini's for a makeover, but please dont add new mini's to be discussed to the same thread.
Here goes:
Druid of Obad-Hai
29 Points
LVL: 3 SPD: 6
AC: 14 HP: 20
MELEE ATTACK: +4 (5)
RANGED ATTACK: ---
TYPE: Humanoid (Human)
SPELLS: 1st - magic fang x3
2nd - summon nature's ally II x2
Note: People complain he is too squishy and doesnt really offer anything, not even beastmaster. With the changes he remains squishy but can be used aggressively with improved summoning and lightning.
CHANGES:
1. Add Beastmaster 3 so he can control a few low lvl animals
2. Remove 1 casting of Summon II, and replace it with Summon III (but he still keeps 1 casting of Summon II
3. Add Call Lightning
Spellstitched Hobgoblin Zombie
11 Points
Lvl 2
Spd 2
AC 14
HP 20
Melee +4 (5)
Type: Undead
Fearless
Spells:
Chill Touch (5dmg to living OR Turn Undead 20 vs undead)
Note: Speed 2?!? Even a roper with MR3 is annoying to use, just a hated mini due to how specific its role is. Below, I have made him more dangerous to the living at the expense of his standard attack, this doesnt hurt him too much coz anytime he attacks the undead he is more likely to 'Turn Undead' rather than try to cause damage.
CHANGES:
1. Speed becomes 3 (or even 4)
2. Melee Attack drops to +2
3. Chill Touch does 10dmg to living
4. HP 25
Blackscale Lizardfolk
16 Points
LEVEL 4
SPEED 8
AC 16
HP 25
MELEE ATTACK
+7/+5 (15/5)
TYPE
Large Monstrous Humanoid (Lizardfolk, Reptilian)
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Immune Dragonbreath Weapons; Disruptive (Until this creature makes a melee attack, you cannot add Commander ratings to your initiative rolls); Melee Reach 2
Note: Ppl hate disruptive, he should have a few more advantages to compensate for such a disadvantageous ability, plus he's too squishy to such a cool looking large.
CHANGES:
1. Melee attack improves to +8/+6
2. HP 35
3. AC 17
***Or keep all stats the same and just remove disuptive?
Roper
74 Points
LEVEL 10
SPEED 2
AC 21
HP 85
MELEE ATTACK
+11/+11 (10 + Weaken)
TYPE
Large Magical Beast
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Double Damage from Fire
Immune Electricity
Melee Reach 3
Roper Tentacles (If this creature is active, each enemy that starts its turn within this creature's Melee Reach cannot move this turn; DC 17)
Spell Resistance
Wandering Monster
Weaken (Attack -2, melee damage -5 [minimum 5] DC 17)
Note: Costs way too much, especially for something as random/risky as a SLOW wandering monster, either we drop the cost OR boost him up. I'd prefer to drop the cost.
CHANGES:
1. Drop cost to 50-55
OR
1. 1 extra melee attack on top of the 2 he already has, at the same bonus to hit/dmg
2. Melee reach 4 (or even 5)
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dwarven king
Sneak
61 Posts
| | 12/21/2005 12:33 PM |
| I like what you suggested for the Druid of Obad-hai.
Might give it a shot:
Soldier of Thrane
LG 20 pts
Lvl 4
Spd 4
AC 22
HP 35
Melee Attack: +5 (15)
Type: Humanoid (Human)
Changes:
Replace his sword with a Polearm and give it Melee Reach 2
What's the problem with polearms and minis? | |
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robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 12/21/2005 2:38 PM |
| Yeah the Elf Spearguard is the only medium creature that is humanoid and has a melee reach. You'd think all spear weilding figures would.
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
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md3
Sergeant
702 Posts
| | 12/21/2005 2:49 PM |
| | Are you forgetting Rask and the Chain Devil? They too have medium bases and melee reach. I do agree that Orc Spearfighters and some others should as well. I think the Royal Guard either does or should have it as well. | |
"You are not the sum of your miniatures."
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TruNutral88
Sergeant
522 Posts
| | 12/21/2005 3:14 PM |
| quote:
Are you forgetting Rask and the Chain Devil? They too have medium bases and melee reach. I do agree that Orc Spearfighters and some others should as well. I think the Royal Guard either does or should have it as well
royal guard has it | |
Champion of Bruenor Battlehammer | |
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dwarven king
Sneak
61 Posts
| | 12/21/2005 3:23 PM |
| My main issue is with a few choices, I mean.
The Soldier of Tharne could have a polearm, but has a sword.
Instead of the Hobgoblim Impaler with a sickle, we could have had a hobgoblin with a polearm (they are a military race)
LG and LE are the factions I belive could make use of polearms and shields.
Anyway, not to stride away from th thread subject, I came up with another makeover:
Wyvern
CG/CE
36 pts
LVL 7
SPD F4
AC 18
HP 60
Melee Attack: +10/+8/+8 (10 Magic+ Poison/10/10)
Type: Large Dragon
Special Abilities: Flight, Incited, Poison (5 points when creature activates; DC17)
Changes:
Give it speed F8
remove magic damage from the sting
remove incited
Wyverns are so cool I hope to see an orc dragonrider on a wyvern on WD or WoDQ. And make him use a polearm!
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CorneilleLoiseau
Sergeant
402 Posts
Qc, Canada
| | 12/21/2005 3:34 PM |
| KIRE
I think that your modification about the Druid of Obad-Hai are fruitless. IMO is big problem is that he is way to squishy for what he bring. You lose him and you lose 49 points. For 20 HP this is relatively easy. With all this speed around (Chraal, Gith, Hitter...), too dangerous... and your modification don't change this. His big problem is HP, not summoning power.
Neverthless, I agree that he should have beastmaster.
Guillaume | |
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taliesin
Underboss
1113 Posts
| | 12/21/2005 5:39 PM |
| I've got one:
[mini="Af.46">Ogre Mage[/mini]
Melee attack becomes +8 for 20 magic damage; Commander rating goes up to 5; and add Warband Building: CE Giants are legal in your warband. | |
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Kire
Skirmisher
29 Posts
| | 12/21/2005 7:01 PM |
| Regarding the Druid, remember I am not trying to optimise but I do see your point
How about:
1. Add Beastmaster 3 so he can control a few low lvl animals
2. Remove 1 casting of Summon II, and replace it with Summon III (but he still keeps 1 casting of Summon II
3. Add Call Lightning
4. Increase Lvl to 6
5. Increase HP to 35
6. Increase AC to 16 (being a higher lvl means better items to boost armour)
7. Add Longstrider spell (Speed now 8, helps to run away if threatened)
Is that a bit better for its point cost of 29?
Regarding Wyvern, I think that is good, it needed more speed
Regarding Soldier of Thrane, Nice idea but his mini doesnt have a polearm as someone said... and yes, the Royal Guard has MR2
So people were happy with my Hob Zom, LizardF, and Roper?
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slayer1
Sergeant
597 Posts
| | 12/21/2005 9:30 PM |
| I think the druid would be better if it wasn't a summoner. One, it pays extra points for the ability to summon and two, it is too squishy for it to be a good summoner. Here is a druid of obad-hai more to my liking.
Druid of Obad-Hai 33 points
HP 40
AC 16
LVL 7
SPD 8
Melee: +7(5)
Ranged:-
Special Abilities: Beast Master 6; Spells: 2nd- Cat's Grace [][] 3rd- Call Lightning [][]
I went ahead and bumped him up to a 7th level druid and gave him beast master 6 so that it allows the dire wolf to be used. | |
Har 25/80 De 35/60 Ar 43/60 GoL 61/72 Ab 42/60 Dk 43/60 Af 51/60 Ud 49/60 WD 50/60 | |
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Kire
Skirmisher
29 Posts
| | 12/22/2005 4:09 AM |
| Yeah Slayer1, that Druid looks solid
although I'd still prefer to have summoning to keep some of its original form... maybe scrap 1 cats grace and add summon II, and then bump the point cost by another 3?
Since we were talking about Soldier of Thrane, I dont like how the Gold Dwarf Soldier completely outclasses it, so here it goes:
Soldier of Thrane
LG 20 pts
Lvl 4
Spd 4
AC 22
HP 35
Melee Attack: +5 (15)
Type: Humanoid (Human)
Note: Grab the Gold Dwarf Soldier's stats and feel sorry for this guy, my changes have made him a bit more competitive vs the dwarf. Although I'd still take the Dwarf... but thats ok, Im not optimising.
Changes:
1. Tower Shield (grants +2 AC vs ranged attacks)
2. Increase lvl to 6
3. Melee Attack +7 (15)
4. Gain Slow Ranged Attack +5 (5) - This is because on the back of the card it says has a crossbow in his possession.
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journeymonk
Skirmisher
10 Posts
| | 12/22/2005 5:25 AM |
| Question: Does a mini with Epic stats reflect both point values. I've only one (Death Slaad) and I don't have it on me right now.
Anyway, I believe the changes could be made when they issue Epic Stat cards. This way, they can salvage some of the rares that have not been very effective for skirmish. It would also be a good way to resurrect rares from older sets.
Candidates would be:
LG:
Warforged Hero
Lion Falcon Monk (higher atk and dmg)
CG:
Centaur
Brass Dragon
Ryld (like Drizzt, would love to see the pumped up version)
LE:
Wraith (Commander rating, higher HP, atk and dmg, plus undead minions!)
Mind Flayer (more spells!)
Ogre Mage
Displacer Beast (add Hide!)
Thaskor (resistances)
Flesh Golem (truer to stats, higher damage, more attacks)
Red Wizard (HP and spells!)
Lord Soth (powerrr!!!)
CE:
Hezrou (truer to stats)
... I'm obviously an LE player. :) | |
"Truth is a pathless land." - Jiddu Krishnamurti | |
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Kire
Skirmisher
29 Posts
| | 12/23/2005 7:08 PM |
| Journeymonk, My understanding is that Epic Stats are for the popular/powerful creatures. They are not just a stat adjustment to correct mistakes, they are just more powerful versions of that creature... It's DnD's version of 'Pimp my Mini', souped-up versions of recognisable creatures.
Anyway, here is another 2 mini's due for a makeover
Dark Creeper
8 Points
LEVEL 1
SPEED 6
AC 17
HP 5
MELEE ATTACK
+4 (5)
RANGE ATTACK
+5, range 6 (5)
TYPE
Small Humanoid (Creeper, Dark One)
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Blindsight
Conceal 6
Melee Sneak Attack +10
Note: Too many points for only 5hp. Plus conceal is useless on a fig with 5 points, a figure with 50hp gets more chances to use conceal. Im sure its cost is so high coz of conceal.
CHANGES:
1. reduce sneak attack to +5
2. drop total cost to 6 (otherwise he will be vastly superior to halfling sneak)
OR
1. add hide
2. increase melee attack to +5 (5)
Ankheg
22 Points
LEVEL 3
SPEED 4
AC 18
HP 30
MELEE ATTACK
+5 (10 + 5 Acid)
TYPE
Large Magical Beast
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Burrow 4
Enraged Acid Spirit (Only when wounded, replaces attacks: line 12; 10 acid damage; DC 14)
Feast (When it reduces a living enemy to 0 hp with a melee attack, this creature makes a morale save)
Natural Soul (Melee attack +2 and melee damage +5 when under command by a commander with Beastmaster)
Wandering Monster (Sets up on a random feature tile instead of your assembly tile)
Note: Feast is horrible, especially with only a lvl 3 save. Lets scrap that OR boost other abilities
CHANGES
1. Remove feast
OR
1. Increase lvl to 6
2. Increase hp to 45
3. Increase DC of Acid Spray to 15 (or 16?)
Hope this all made sense...
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