DDM Australian Champion 2005
psistef
Underboss
1572 Posts
    
 | | 01/29/2006 5:40 AM |
| Here, it is, the matchup to beat all matchups!
In the last stage, Nixlord defeated Muselindeman 15 to 5.
ChristopherGroves defeated Phrank 16 to 4.
And now, on to the title bout!
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CHRISTOPHERGROVES
Mordenkainen
Red Samurai x2
Zombie White Dragon
Abyssal Maw
Warrior Skeleton x3
VERSUS...
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NIXLORD
Mordenkainen
Helmed Horror
Duergar Champions x2
Snig the Axe
+ 3 Goblin Skirmishers
So, who do you think will win? Will the Red Sams beat down the Dwarf/Construct combo? Or will the ability to cast a Cone of Cold through a mouldy dragon turn the tide? you decide!
The rules!
One vote per person.
Fighters, no voting for your own band. [:)]
Assume players are of equal skill.
Include any explaination you see fit. Tell us why you think the winner shall prevail!
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Champion of the Prestige Class where mages focus on telekenesis and start throwing people into the ceiling and uber stuff like that.
Desirer of a Commander Effect in CG that grants Sidestep to followers with a ranged attack. | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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kritter
Underboss
1336 Posts
Calgary, Alberta Canada
| | 01/29/2006 9:05 AM |
| my vote:
CHRISTOPHERGROVES
Mordenkainen
Red Samurai x2
Zombie White Dragon
Abyssal Maw
Warrior Skeleton x3
with 3 cones and 3 lines and 3 auto 15 fire, the flyer to base/nerf the spellcaster(i have personally done this to mordy with the ZWD, slow attack doesn't matter, AoO anyone?), the HH is only immune to 2 of the 9 energy attacks and if the duergar are affected by all the cones/lines, making all their saves they would be looking at 60 damage and 40 damage to the HH | |
Trades:
Complete: 134
Ongoing: 1
BAD: 2 = Cha0tic g0od, Thor <--- thief and a liar
Champion of the Aspect of Yeenoghu, Demon Prince of Gnolls and Bigby | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2637 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 01/29/2006 9:38 AM |
| My vote is for CHRISTOPHERGROVES
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Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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jos1-1
Sergeant
829 Posts
| | 01/29/2006 12:40 PM |
| | CHRISTOPHERGROVES | |
Poor student looking for minis =D | |
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Tactician
Sergeant
888 Posts
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Avatar of the Tank
Newtoncain
Commander
2985 Posts
Land of 10,000 taxes
| | 01/29/2006 1:00 PM |
| | Groves, only because Nix has won this before[:p][)]. | |
They just don't know what's good in life...Conan, tell them what is good in life.
To rip the boosters. To count the minis spilled out before you, and to hear the indifference of the women... | |
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robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 01/29/2006 1:08 PM |
| 1 Chris
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
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Successful trades with: Tickparasite, Iyceman, Faragdar The Wise's friend, avrivah, Drakkengi, brucemc, Krush, maniacal_mini_monger, hung4treason, Gandy, NarlethDrider, Kunimatyu, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah..... | |
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jos1-1
Sergeant
829 Posts
| | 01/29/2006 3:18 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Newtoncain
Groves, only because Nix has won this before[:p][)].
ding! | |
Poor student looking for minis =D | |
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juice
Warrior
175 Posts
| | 01/29/2006 3:33 PM |
| | Nixlord | |
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Kypdurron
Underboss
1206 Posts
Broken Hill
| | 01/29/2006 6:05 PM |
| | i'm gunna vote for 1 because i just love red sam's | |
my trade data
email
Completed trades:Nixlord,Lexander , DarkFather x2 ,minotoman38 x2, Mojoical, Smilin Irish, Smithmeg, Bugsy, Doone, gmd316,Bossman.Dargoth
Bad Trades:Chaotic Good ,
,Champion Of Plush Wrackspawn | |
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synecdoche
Warrior
252 Posts
| | 01/29/2006 6:22 PM |
| CG takes the win.
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Champion of the Green Hag | |
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Nixlord
Underboss
2468 Posts
Quezon City, Philippines
| | 01/30/2006 1:19 AM |
| Ugh, I'm getting raped here. [B)]
Hehe, just so you guys know, even if in the unlikely event that I managed to rally and win, I'd still give the opportunity to start the next challenge to ChristopherGroves. [)]
Besides, being creative and submitting a band and watching it get picked over the others is much more enjoyable than running the challenge. [:D]
Better start thinking about the next challenge, Chris!
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PENDING TRADES (0) :none
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11727 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 01/30/2006 2:08 AM |
| After some thought, I'm going to give this battle to Nixlord ever so slightly.
First, Mord's commander effect favours Chris. While Nix's Helmed Horror has a lot of HP, the Duergar only have 65 each. On the other hand, a ZWD can sit in Mord's CE all day, and the Red Sam's have more than the Duergar Champs.
Next, mobility. Chris's Red Sams are fast and his ZWD flies (but can't attack when it moves). Nix's main hitters are slower, but his scariest piece does fly 6. Slight advantage to Chris again.
So where does Nix start to make up the ground? I believe that the big advantage here lies in Snig. If I were playing against myself using Chris's warband, these would be my goals:
-try to force the fight into a 2-square wide corridor with the ZWD in the front and bait the enemy into a cone of cold with some commander effect damage
-try to swing the Red Sams around to kill his Mord
-maybe keep one of the Red Sams back a little to help defend Mord
If I had Nix's band, these would be my goals:
-avoid the ZWD
-send the HH and one Duergar Champ to kill his Mord
-hold back Snig and his buddies, and one of the Duergar Champs to defend Mord
And here's how it would play out. The Nix side could avoid the ZWD if it really wants to. Once the HH bases Mord, it will take a while for the defending Red Sam to kill the HH (if it does at all). When the Duergar Champ arrives to support the HH, it should try to base both Mord and the Red Sam to take advantage of a potential cleave opportunity. If the Warrior Skeleton's come back to help, the D Champ will just cleave through them into either Mord or the Red Sam - and basically lose none of its attacking power.
On the other end, the offensive Red Sam will be stalking either Mord or Snig and his buddies for a breath weapon (since breath is no good on Mord). As the Nix player, I would move my Mord up aggressively to make the Red Sam want to base me, but in such a way that the 3 Skirmishers were left with charge lanes or attack lanes. Anyway, I think you can see what's about to happen. The ZWD will fly in aggressively and probably flank Mord to put him in real jeopardy. But, the defending Duergar (with his sure hitting and conceal) will already be a handful for the Red Sam. Now, with 1-3 of Snig's buddies hitting the Red Sam fairly regularly for 10 damage, the Red Sam is sure to die.
In the end, Nix will be able to kill Mord, both Red Sams, and the fodder. Chris will be able to kill Mord, a Duergar, and some Skirmishers.
If there is no one hour time limit, then the remaining ZWD will lose to the combined efforts of a Duergar, HH, and Snig.
In conclusion, the low AC of the Red Sam, combined with Snig's commander effect on those 3 pt goblins is what ends the game in Nix's favour. While on the other side, fodder is very easily dealt with because of the high AC's of the Duergar and the HH, plus cleave for the Duergar. And you can bet that once in this match, one of the Red Sams or the ZWD will miss a Duergar due to conceal.
Notes: As the Nix player, the key to victory is to not allow a Red Sam to breathe on all of the goblins at once. For if this were to happen, and Snig ran off, then the result could be very different. Also, there is lower variance in the ability to kill Mord with the Helmed Horror, as it is immune to critical hits from the defending Red Sam and Mord - and the fact that the HH is fearless. The attacking Red Sam, however, is subject to potential criticals from Mord, Duergar, and 1-3 goblins. While the ZWD is as solid as ever, its damage output is really just too low for its cost (imagine a 3pt goblin matching the damage output of a 37 pt large undead dragon?). | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Janos M.
Underboss
1015 Posts
Hamburg / GErmany
| | 01/30/2006 2:28 AM |
| Nixlord wins
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My Haves and wants:
http://www.maxminis.com/hw_list.asp?user=Janos_M.
Champion of Elan Psions
Proud Owner of the "Aura of cursed dice" | |
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robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 01/30/2006 3:25 AM |
| Personally I think the combat would be all about chance in some ways but there are factors to look at on Chris's side as well. I laugh at saying Snig will be important to the battle at all. The Goblin Skirmishers would die so fast it wouldn't even been funny and Snig would rout off the board in the blink of an eye. Snig is pointless against direct damage. Counting on them to do anything else is a pipe dream. There's no activation edge given by including him which is his real strength so it goes back to Chris's warband. Mordy is a lousy commander against the beaters given and he'll likely die on both sides of the table rather fast but both would be running each round and only taking 10 damage from AOOs (forgot those AOOs didn't you?). The ZWD lives longer than the HH either way. Duergar would likely die faster than the Red Sam and have about the same chance of routing 10 HP earlier. Direct damage alone could cause that to happen before the Duergar got close enough to attack anything. Conceal doesn't do squat for that. It'd be a close game but I think the low HP of the Duergar will cause them to lose.
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
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Successful trades with: Tickparasite, Iyceman, Faragdar The Wise's friend, avrivah, Drakkengi, brucemc, Krush, maniacal_mini_monger, hung4treason, Gandy, NarlethDrider, Kunimatyu, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah..... | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | 01/30/2006 7:45 AM |
| I like the analysis but that is completely NOT how I'd play this band.
[:D]
Check again ... I'm running far more defense than offense, including the Red Sams. I have overlapping cones and damage which, depending on the effect, won't hurt many of my components ... and that includes both Red Sams breathing on Mordy or Mordy taking an AoO to drop a spell on whoever bases him, etc.
I think my advantage is the mass of breath weapons which allow me to be defensive. The last thing Nix wants is for me to sit around for 45 minutes and them swing out and put a bunch of autodamage on one of his creatures and win the game ... but that's the band I have ... a turtling CE build.
I think the match would come down to a few key rolls, namely initiative in the (N-1)th round of the match. Call me crazy, but if I win that init Nix can't keep me from springing anywhere on the board and laying out the damage on a target and if he does he out-activates me and keeps pieces hard to reach, blocking w/ the skirmishers. Until then we're dancing. Nth round would matter somewhat, but not as much as (N-1)th. | |
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andytum
Sergeant
400 Posts
| | 01/30/2006 10:28 AM |
| | christophergroves | |
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 01/30/2006 10:38 AM |
| I've vote Chris on this one.
I think that all the cones will offer up a good amount of damage and the ability to go through the ZWD will be beneficial for Chris and having to fight through the ZWD will hurt Nix. | |
Sean Banks
Champion of Elementals
Official Organizer
Gen Con 05 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 06 maxminis Event | Gen Con 06 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 07 Community Event | |
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ickthegreat
Warrior
291 Posts
| | 01/30/2006 11:28 AM |
| | nixlord | |
trades pending: (0)
everything is perfectly going out of control
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 01/30/2006 12:09 PM |
| | Chris Groves | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
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elder_basilisk
Sergeant
410 Posts
| | 01/30/2006 2:31 PM |
| | Chris Groves. | |
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frogrodeo
Sergeant
706 Posts
| | 01/30/2006 5:49 PM |
| | Christopher Groves - I like the advantage of Cones and mobility. | |
Champion of Remorhaz, and the Mighty Goblin Frog Riders | |
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Tactician
Sergeant
888 Posts
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TruNutral88
Sergeant
522 Posts
| | 01/30/2006 7:26 PM |
| | Christopher Groves [:p] (no i'm not hoppin' on the band wagon!) | |
Champion of Bruenor Battlehammer | |
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DDM Australian Champion 2005
psistef
Underboss
1572 Posts
| | 01/30/2006 7:28 PM |
| | Voting closed! [:)] | |
Champion of the Prestige Class where mages focus on telekenesis and start throwing people into the ceiling and uber stuff like that.
Desirer of a Commander Effect in CG that grants Sidestep to followers with a ranged attack. | |
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DDM Australian Champion 2005
psistef
Underboss
1572 Posts
| | 01/30/2006 7:35 PM |
| | Ya know, I'd be interested in knowing if any of the votes were skewed by people knowing that Nixlord had already run a challenge. | |
Champion of the Prestige Class where mages focus on telekenesis and start throwing people into the ceiling and uber stuff like that.
Desirer of a Commander Effect in CG that grants Sidestep to followers with a ranged attack. | |
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Nixlord
Underboss
2468 Posts
Quezon City, Philippines
| | 01/31/2006 12:06 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by psistef
Ya know, I'd be interested in knowing if any of the votes were skewed by people knowing that Nixlord had already run a challenge.
Yeah, me too. [:p]
I wished I was able to post immediately (about giving Chris the challenge no matter what) after you started the finals.
I wondered if those who voted for Chris remembered that Mordy has Resist Fire 15. [)]
No big deal though. It's a pretty fair and fun matchup.
Thanks for the challenge, psistef! ΖD]
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PENDING TRADES (0) :none
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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