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Zyla
Underboss
1197 Posts
    
 | | 03/16/2006 4:47 AM |
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Greenfang Druid
Chimera
Fiendish Girallon x2
Aramil
Timberwolf x3
Bsically the Chimera is to weaken or rout low HP figures, and it can also charge for 30 damage itsself, with the Girallons as the heavy hitter, Aramil is used for Ray of Enfeeblement, with the Timberwolves doing what they do best. | |
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One_Wing
Sergeant
494 Posts
London
| | 03/16/2006 5:49 AM |
| | Which map are you planning to use this with? 3 Large base beaters can be very unwieldy against a skilled opponent. Also, Girralons and Chimeras both die quite easily. An FB will give this band fits, cause 30 damage + aura o fear will rout Girralons more thsn half the time, even if they are under command. Hill giant barbarian + wardrummer will also cause serious trouble. | |
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BakS
Sneak
50 Posts
| | 03/16/2006 6:09 AM |
| And how about this:
GFD
Chimera
Dire Bear
Voice of Battle
Hunting Cougar
Timber Wolf x 3
And I`m thinking about change DB to FB
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My Have/want list
http://www.maxminis.com/hw_list.asp?user=BakS | |
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andytum
Sergeant
400 Posts
| | 03/16/2006 10:32 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zyla
Greenfang Druid
Chimera
Fiendish Girallon x2
Aramil
Timberwolf x3
Bsically the Chimera is to weaken or rout low HP figures, and it can also charge for 30 damage itsself, with the Girallons as the heavy hitter, Aramil is used for Ray of Enfeeblement, with the Timberwolves doing what they do best.
Switch Chimera for a Dire Bear and add a Hunting Cougar and you have a nice warband... | |
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andytum
Sergeant
400 Posts
| | 03/16/2006 10:35 AM |
| Also you may want to use Aasimar Favored Soul for bless, magic weapon and the illuminator effect that removes conceal in 6 square radius... all that can help you to land that +30 rend. With bless, magic fang and magic weapon those Girallons will be attacking at +15/+15 and with conceal removed by illuminator effect you have pretty good chance to hit with both attacks.
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| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12477 Posts
The G Spot
| | 03/16/2006 12:45 PM |
| | Yeah, ya gotta get a dire bear in there. | |
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True_Blue
Underboss
2386 Posts
| | 03/16/2006 1:00 PM |
| | With the Girallon, you have to rend, or he's just not worth his points. Even with critting on a 19-20, he still doesnt put out enough damage. I mean 20 dmg on a crit just isnt a lot. Any way you can help him out, MW, flanking, etc..you need to do it. | |
Champion of a Knight of Takhisis/Knight of Neraka | |
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nedleeds
Warrior
240 Posts
| | 03/16/2006 2:25 PM |
| | I would *highly* recommend always including one Celestial Pegasus as one of your 3 large base Ani-Magic Beasts. They are super fast, resistant and can hit pretty consistantly after the Legions. 75 hp means you might get some mileage out of the greater vigor. | |
Champion of Zarak - Evil Half-Orc Assassin | |
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robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 03/16/2006 3:15 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by True_Blue
With the Girallon, you have to rend, or he's just not worth his points. Even with critting on a 19-20, he still doesnt put out enough damage. I mean 20 dmg on a crit just isnt a lot. Any way you can help him out, MW, flanking, etc..you need to do it.
I'd say you're wrong there. Depending on your local metagame the Girallon can be very devastating. Yes you need to hit with both attacks to really dish out the damage but with a +13/+13 it's as better odds than an Orc Champion has to do as much damage. It can be as effective or more as a Orc Champion with it's attacks. I'll be the first to admit it lacks more in the HP department but in CG and with the Greenfang, Regeneration and possibly Blur could help make up for that.
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
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dulsin
Sneak
171 Posts
| | 03/16/2006 4:00 PM |
| I was thinking
Greenfang Druid
Evermeet Wizard
Dragonne
Guenhwyvar
Griffen
Aramil
199 points 6 activations
Add Summoning creatures for the Evermeet wizard
Hunting Couger
Hunting Couger
Monitor Lizard
Monitor Lizard
When the Mass magic fang goes off the Cougers will be +8 (10 magic) | |
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| DDM Constructed Champion 2006
derry
Warrior
268 Posts
| | 03/16/2006 4:22 PM |
| I have fun with this warband last night.
Greenfang Druid
Steelheart Archer
Hunting Cougar x 3
Dragonne x 3 | |
Member of the Low Post Count but High Post Content Society | |
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Grey Dragon
Sneak
75 Posts
| | 03/16/2006 6:10 PM |
| I've always been a big fan of the Greenfang. My current preferred build goes something like this:
Greenfang Druid (50 pts)
Warforged Barbarian (49 pts)
Dire Bear (44 pts)
Celestial Pegasus (32 pts)
Wild Elf Raider x3 (18 pts)
Timber Wolf (5 pts)
198 pts; 8 activations
Map: Dragon Shrine
The WFB could be switched for something else if you prefer-- it could become a Chimera with no other modifications, or you swap one of the Raiders for another Wolf and bring in a Frenzied Berserker instead. Whatever works for you.
Note that if you do decide to bring in the Chimera (or another Large creature), it's probably a good idea to use a different map, as the Dragon Shrine's corridors can be tough to maneuver in with that many big bases. (Not to mention the fact that the Acid Blessing areas can seriously hurt the Chimichanga's breath weapon). | |
"Life is short. Death is shorter."-- motto of the Halfling Assassin Squad | |
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Zyla
Underboss
1197 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 6:24 AM |
| Another Chimera warband i came up with is this:
Orc Druid
Hill Giant Barbarian
Chimera
Orc Wardrummer
Timberwolf
Howling Orc
Orc Warrior x2
The Wardrummer lower the saves for the Chimera's fear cone, with the Orc Druid giving the Chimera +2 AB and can use snakes swiftness on the Hill Giant.
And another GFD warband is this:
GFD
Chimera
Celestial Pegasus
Dire Bear
Monitor Lizard x4
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True_Blue
Underboss
2386 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 6:37 AM |
| | If you are using the Greenfang, a lot of ppl really like to use the Celestial Pegasus, as you've probably noticed. The resistances, etc just make it such a nice peice for a Greenfang Druid band. | |
Champion of a Knight of Takhisis/Knight of Neraka | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10446 Posts
United States
| | 03/17/2006 7:58 AM |
| For those of you playing the GFD I have a question. Are you seeing him as a sturdy enough piece to take to a tournament? What I mean is, if prizes or your DCI rating are on the line, are you bringing this guy?
For fun, he's great. And, I think that he sits right at the threshold of competitiveness. But, I haven't played him myself enough to know.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Low Key
Underboss
1231 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 8:19 AM |
| Indeed, the Pegasus is nearly mandatory with GFD. It's tier 1 without him, and it just gets better with the improved critical, Legion's Magic Fang (LMF) and Greater Vigor. But I'm not sold on Dire Bear. Sure its tough, and hits all the time, but a large based melee reach 0 with a pretty low damage for its cost...
Most of the time I'd rather use either FB, or the new 50 point Barbarians. Something like this;
-Greenfang Druid 50p
-Warforged Barbarian 49p (Cheaper than FB or the Wemic, mainly)
-Celestial Pegasus 32p
-Rikka, Celestial Avenger 31p (The swiss army knife of CG, I use him most of the time.)
-Graycloak Ranger + Wolf 15p (Elf Stalker or Steelheart Archer might work too)
-Aramil 13p (Nerf-ray)
-Timber Wolf x2 (Fast assault grapper)
Greater Vigor on the Warforged and Pegasus, then LMF, followed by auto damage from range. The different wolfs go for assault points. Archer's hunt for weaker pieces and other assault grappers. Aramil Nerfs stuff, or tries to use the Magic Missle to force a moral save/kill fodder.
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Champion of the Sarrukh | |
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madgremlin
Skirmisher
25 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 9:09 AM |
| Dire Bear, Dire Bear, Dire Bear. Provides a good meat shield and mid-damage attack with superior bonus. Once the Chimera uses his bag of tricks he's kinda weak. That is if he gets to use all three or any. Most players will avoid giving the opportunity and try to weaken or route him before he can use them all.
Swarming with smaller pieces would only afford 1 maybe 2 good targets for the roar and negate the charge by baseing. And the line attack with the acid is easy to only provide one target to. If you test it out, I'd advise a map with narrower corridors to force your opponent's band tighter.
It's a cool piece and the first rare I pulled but I doubt it will see much game time in tournament. | |
Mischief and Mayhem are always in my wake! Bwahhahahahahahahahaha!!!! | |
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dulsin
Sneak
171 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 10:08 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by True_Blue
If you are using the Greenfang, a lot of ppl really like to use the Celestial Pegasus, as you've probably noticed. The resistances, etc just make it such a nice peice for a Greenfang Druid band.
The reason I never use the Celestial Pegasas with the GFD is that it already has magic damage. I prefer to use the Griffen and get more bang from that mass magic fang. | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10446 Posts
United States
| | 03/17/2006 12:37 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by dulsin
quote:
Originally posted by True_Blue
If you are using the Greenfang, a lot of ppl really like to use the Celestial Pegasus, as you've probably noticed. The resistances, etc just make it such a nice peice for a Greenfang Druid band.
The reason I never use the Celestial Pegasas with the GFD is that it already has magic damage. I prefer to use the Griffen and get more bang from that mass magic fang.
This is a really weird argument. I don't get it. For the difference of 4 points, you're giving up a significant amount of hit points, a significant amount of speed, and you're giving up a better second attack. Why would you use the Griffon over the Celestial Pegasus just to get the benefit from the spell. I think that synergies have to serve the band, not the other way around.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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dulsin
Sneak
171 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 12:54 PM |
| Good point.
I was ignoring all the celestrial pegasus's other abilities. | |
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Wayne
Underboss
1371 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 1:11 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by robbdaman
Yes you need to hit with both attacks to really dish out the damage [with a Gorillon] but with a +13/+13 it's as better odds than an Orc Champion has to do as much damage.
Not really. The Orc Champ's damage expectation against ACs 20 and 25, respectively, is 31.25 and 18.75. (That assumes a bless as you did for the Gorillon.)
The Gorillon's expectation is 29 and 15 (approximately, rounded very slightly up in the first case, and very slightly down in the second). This includes the possibility of the Rend. If you add in Cleave and the Tiefling Captain's commander effect (or any critical hit), the disparity grows.
If the Gorillon had 5 more HP, it would be worth playing. I know it's old hat, and "the 65 HP breakpoint doesn't matter as much anymore," but this is a case where the 65 HP threshold is genuinely the difference between a competitive piece and a fun piece. | |
Jeff "Wayne Laredo" Wilder | Email | Have/Want List | Trade Policies | Are You an Ethical Trader?
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Wayne
Underboss
1371 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 1:18 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Vrecknidj
For those of you playing the GFD I have a question. Are you seeing him as a sturdy enough piece to take to a tournament? What I mean is, if prizes or your DCI rating are on the line, are you bringing this guy?
Almost, but not quite. I've had some success in 6-8 man tournaments with GFD, Dire Bear x2, Celestial Pegasus, Grayclock x2, but in a serious tournament he's not quite there. (I'm planning to test him with Dragonnes soon. The bad thing there is that the Pegasus is what comes out ... you have to have the high attack bonus of at least one Dire Bear.) | |
Jeff "Wayne Laredo" Wilder | Email | Have/Want List | Trade Policies | Are You an Ethical Trader?
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 1:40 PM |
| So, back to one of my repeating topics.
Some pieces are "good enough for the points" but don't see play because there is no band they fit into at those points.
You could run the Greenfang with any number of CG bands ... but he's not the best choice generally. In order to justify the Greenfang, you need to be running animals/beasts ... otherwise, why wouldn't you run the Marshal, Brass Sammy or Moon Elf? He brings nothing to the other CG core power pieces.
But, he's close enough. He's an investment piece that I'd hold onto for the time being. If an animal ever shows up that has good basic stats, he could be the best choice. | |
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One_Wing
Sergeant
494 Posts
London
| | 03/17/2006 1:49 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
So, back to one of my repeating topics.
Some pieces are "good enough for the points" but don't see play because there is no band they fit into at those points.
You could run the Greenfang with any number of CG bands ... but he's not the best choice generally. In order to justify the Greenfang, you need to be running animals/beasts ... otherwise, why wouldn't you run the Marshal, Brass Sammy or Moon Elf? He brings nothing to the other CG core power pieces.
But, he's close enough. He's an investment piece that I'd hold onto for the time being. If an animal ever shows up that has good basic stats, he could be the best choice.
He has some synergy with the Frenzied Zerker as well. | |
Thousands of Zulu's, behind You!
Proud member of PK's team low tier beasting; CG for ever!
Champion of the Dragon Disciple | |
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Wayne
Underboss
1371 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 2:05 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by One_Wing
He has some synergy with the Frenzied Zerker as well.
Enh. I've never seen a Frenzied Berzerker last long enough for the greater vigor to make any difference. | |
Jeff "Wayne Laredo" Wilder | Email | Have/Want List | Trade Policies | Are You an Ethical Trader?
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 2:22 PM |
| Back to one of my repeating topics.
G-I-R-A-L-L-O-N.
Ahem.
Anyway, I think the girallon has better potential with the orc wolf shaman as a commander than it does with the GFD.
Increasing his crit rate is not really that exciting, and it already does magic damage; giving him +5 damage is a lot more interesting, and with melee reach 2 it is one easier figures to pull off the hunter effect with.
Mind you, we're still not talking about a tier one concept. You *can* hit 8 activations with 4 'hitters', but you better have a lot of experience piloting 4 large non-flying bases together:
OWS
Fiendish Girallon x4
3 point fodder x3
Fun, but lack of being able to pick your map is likely to give you a few autolosses over and above the inevitable bad matchups. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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Chairman7w
Sergeant
484 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 2:24 PM |
| A recent league event out here saw a guy with a GFD, Dire Bear and dual Dragonnes. I think he went 1-1.
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Dr. Simon: A phrase that's encoded in her brain, that makes her fall asleep. If I speak the words, "Eta...
Jayne: Well don't say it!
Zoë: It only works on her, Jayne. | |
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Wayne
Underboss
1371 Posts
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Gunthar
Commander
2938 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 2:54 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Vrecknidj
For those of you playing the GFD I have a question. Are you seeing him as a sturdy enough piece to take to a tournament? What I mean is, if prizes or your DCI rating are on the line, are you bringing this guy?
For fun, he's great. And, I think that he sits right at the threshold of competitiveness. But, I haven't played him myself enough to know.
Dave
Yes, he works, but in different ways. For my qualifier band last year he was very important with the combo of Frezied Berserker, Elf Pyromancer, Halfling Ranger, etc. The Timber Wolves were my favorite fodder in the game with him because of teh versatility they brought. The regeneration was also important for the Frenzied Berserker not because the of "reducing" combat damage, but buying me time and allowing me to use the berserker as a decoy to set up attacks and spells or better pick where I wanted to fight. It's also durable and does decent damage when called on to fight when your band is techy and not heavy on front-line hitters.
Is it a "traditional" good piece? Not really, but it does have it's uses in a competitive environment, just not in obvious ways as an "animal commander" although the Pegasus definitely helps that out.
Then again, I expected to see lots of squishy, single commanders at that qualifier and I did. If only I had made that SR roll vs. the stupid Drow Sergeant.... | |
Champion of Prit(Wemic vindication is here)
Minneapolis/St. Paul area
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Wayne
Underboss
1371 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 2:55 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Chairman7w
A recent league event out here saw a guy with a GFD, Dire Bear and dual Dragonnes. I think he went 1-1.
What was the rest of his band? I think it matters a lot.
I'm trying GFD, Dragonne x2, Dire Bear, Graycloak x2, Timber Wolf x2, Hyena. Not only does it give me 9 activations, so I can set up Pounces and Roars, it pretty much guarantees me victory points throughout the game. (And, as a bonus, the Graycloaks absolutely hammer the ever-popular Hill Giant Barbarian.) | |
Jeff "Wayne Laredo" Wilder | Email | Have/Want List | Trade Policies | Are You an Ethical Trader?
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Zyla
Underboss
1197 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 8:56 PM |
| | The maps i been testing my GFD warbands on are Teleport Temple and Field of Ruin, as its much easier to pilot many large figures on those maps. | |
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