Gnolaum
Sergeant
854 Posts
    
 | | 03/17/2006 12:18 PM |
| After very nearly getting spanked by a Marut in a tournament last week, I'm giving some serious thought to the piece.
Core Warband
Marut - 74 pts
Couatl - 42 pts
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116 pts in 2 activations
The core warband is pretty simple. A one piece fearless level 10 titan that has one attack, but hits hard and often. A Couatl that can bring that up to 2 attacks/round. From here there are several branches that can be taken.
Major pieces to consider
Marut - Duh
Warforged Bodyguard - gives the Marut more HP, and provides a way to heal the Marut (WB can be healed)
Rikka - grab tile points and ambush
Justice Archon - If high damage/low AC hitters make a comeback
Aspect of Kord - another whacker
Commanders to consider
Couatl - elemental resistances and, most importantly, snakes swiftness
Cleric of Dol Arrah - high commander rating, and heals.
Warpriest of Moradin - Marut likes to eat commanders, WoM likes to eat
warbands without commanders. High commander rating
Cleric of Order - efficient commander that buffs saves and AC
Village Priest - cheap commander that buffs the Bodyguard and has magic weapon and bless.
Cleric on Yondalla - cheapest commander and has magic weapon.
Tech pieces to consider
Combat Medic - heals
Healer - also heals
Standard Bearer - shuts down enemy Couatls, and Young Masters, extends command effects, and command radius.
Mephling Pyromancer - give the Marut a speed boost and flying! Fireball!
Mialee, Elf Wizard - cheapest magic weapon in the game
Dwarf Artificier - Buffs AC and give greater magic weapon
Dwarf Wizard - Bigby's slapping hand is almost a snakes swiftness
Aramil Adventurer - nerfer
Fodder pieces to consider
Man at Arms
Azer Raider
Warforged Scout
Warband Modules
Another Marut
2x Marut
1x Couatl
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190 pts in 3 activations
Another Marut gives you a backup in case your opponent gets lucky with one, but doesn't really capitalize on damage output. You get 3 big attacks a round, the same could be done with another Couatl. Or...
Front Loaded
2x Marut
2x Dwarf Wizard
1x Cleric of Yondalla
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197 pts in 5 activations
This band, provided all the Bigby's slapping hands get off, and optimal placement, and your opponent fails the DC 20 saves, and you make all the attack rolls, you can get a total of 4 Marut swings in 2 activations (120 damage!), and 6 Marut swings in a round (180 damage!!), for 3 consecutive rounds!!! Has commander 3, and a magic weapon.
Three Stooges
1x Marut
3x Couatl
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200 pts in 4 activations
You can get 4 attacks off now. Your commander rating is 0 though, so good luck winning any initiative. With low activations and a low commander rating smart opponents will be able to dictate the terms of combat.
Another Hitter
1x Marut
1x Couatl
1x Justice Archon or Rikka
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148-149 in 3 activations
Add in another hitter, and add commander of choice.
Bodyguard + Heal
Warforged Bodyguard
Cleric of Dol Arrah
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193 pts in 4 activations
You can give the Marut a grant total of 105+X extra hitpoints. Where X is any overage that is dealt to the Bodyguard after killing it. You commander rating is 7, so you will likely win initiatives, but your activations are low.
Everything
1x Marut
1x Couatl
1x Warforged Bodyguard
1x Cleric of Order
1x Mialee
1x Standard Bearer
1x Warforged Scout
1x Hill Dwarf Warrior
Has commander 5, can buff the AC, saves, and to hit of the Marut up to 27, 13, and 21 respectively. Can snakes swiftness the Marut, gives the Marut elemental resistances, shuts down enemy resistances, will grab tile points.
So many choices... What did I miss?
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SneakyJoeKDB
Sergeant
593 Posts
Utah
| | 03/17/2006 12:43 PM |
| I really like your everything warband. In fact I was thinking of using the same set up for a tourney come up next week. The only thing I am worried about is getting flanked by a 4 beater band. They can take out all the support fairly easily. However they will still have trouble trying to bring the Marut/Couatl/Body Guard trio down. The scout and standard bearer are a great tech addition in case you face a similar band. If there was a way to get one more decent hitter in the band it would be perfect.
Great assesment job I think you pinned down the best options for this type of band. | |
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Pollywood
Skirmisher
3 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 3:35 PM |
| And what about
MARUT
COUATL
ARCANE BALISTA
??????? | |
Polly is Here!!! | |
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Narcissus
Warrior
197 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 6:09 PM |
| My preferred Marut build is:
Marut
Couatl
Cleric of Yondalla
Warforged Bodyguard
Rikka (as opposed to Justice Archon for her higher attack and healing)
Jozan / Hill Dwarf Fighter
Man at Arms / Human Commoner
The only change I would consider is substituting a Justice Archon for Rikka if I was expecting more low AC beaters (CE and CG). | |
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Longbow
Warrior
236 Posts
| | 03/18/2006 7:24 AM |
| I want to try this one (although I think it is doomed to fail when you lose map initiative because it has no tile grabber and overall few activations):
Marut 74
Cleric of Dol Arah 45
Couatl 42
Warforged Bodyguard 32
Mialee 6
199 points, 5 activations, Drow Outpost map
Mialee could be replaced with a Timber Wolf for tilegrabbing or a Man-At-Arms/Human Commoner and a Hill Dwarf for 6 activations. | |
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True_Blue
Underboss
2386 Posts
| | 03/18/2006 7:32 AM |
| | I really worry about having Marut, Rikka, Warforged Bodyguard, Couatl. Honestly you just dont have many attacks. Anything that has the HP to spare can whether it, meaning a lot of Chaotic bands, especially CE. I mean granted you are getting an extra attack from SS, but I just dont like Rikka instead of the Justice Archon. Even if his second attack is at +5, it can still land and potentially hurt. I just dont think you are left with enough hitting power. | |
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Narcissus
Warrior
197 Posts
| | 03/18/2006 7:40 AM |
| That is exactly why I said:
quote:
Originally posted by Narcissus
The only change I would consider is substituting a Justice Archon for Rikka if I was expecting more low AC beaters (CE and CG).
However, substituting a Justice Archon adds a total of one attack to the band (at +5 as mentioned) and may account for 10 or 15 damage on the rare occasion it hits against LE or LG. JAs can be a terrible choice if you expect to face either.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could know exactly what we were going to face ahead of time? Then we would not have to waste all this time with discussion.
I would not take a Marut band to a serious tournament. LE and CE have too many big guns to ignore so I would go with either. That was not the point of this thread though.
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10446 Posts
United States
| | 03/18/2006 9:42 AM |
| How about this?
Marut
Couatl
Warforged Bodyguard
Combat Medic
Warforged Scout
Mialee
Azer Raider x2
If you can manage to keep everyone in a bunch, and the Scout stays alive, you're in great shape. Should the Scout appear to be in trouble, you have two Azers that you could devote to other victory areas (or, Mialee can fill that role starting around round 3).
You really have two good attacks every round; the Bodyguard ought to stay based with the Medic, the Couatl and the Marut so as to absorb as much damage as possible. You'll want the Medic to be as well-hidden as possible, because she's the key to outlasting your opponents.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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kgradert13
Sergeant
909 Posts
| | 03/18/2006 11:31 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Narcissus
I would not take a Marut band to a serious tournament. LE and CE have too many big guns to ignore so I would go with either. That was not the point of this thread though.
Pre-Wardrums, a Marut/Couatl/Rikka band took 3rd at the Midwest open. Considering there were 28 players including:
Illinois Rank - 2, 4, 6, 7, 9, and 10
United States Rank - 20th (no geographic area set)
Michigan Rank - 3
Ohio Rank - 2
And a few other players who's names have dropped off the state lists due to the recent DCI change.
I'd consider this a pretty big tournament.
The woman who took 3rd only lost 2 matches out of 8, both to the person who ended up winning and happened to be her husband.
The marut is resilient enough to be a titan and fares well for himself when played well at almost any event I've seen. | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10446 Posts
United States
| | 03/18/2006 12:59 PM |
| And Michigan #8 and #10 (me and my son)...
That was an intense field of players. I played a Marut, dual Couatl band there.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Zippy
Underboss
1993 Posts
Whitewater, WI
| | 03/18/2006 1:39 PM |
| | With the advent of Orc Wardrummer, who we expect to bring more CE beater bands to the table, I think a Justice Archon is a fine fit. Consider the JA is also good in a mirror match (if you can get a swing to land). The couatl's low commander rating works well with the JA's Bold special ability, too. | |
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Ack
Underboss
1476 Posts
| | 03/18/2006 8:41 PM |
| | I think Zippy has the right call - alot of people will be bringing out major beef with CE beaters and a Wardrummer or 2. Maybe its time to dust off Justice 4 All... . | |
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elder_basilisk
Sergeant
410 Posts
| | 03/18/2006 8:58 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ack
Maybe its time to dust off Justice 4 All... .
Speaking of multi-justice archon bands, there's at least a few new possibilities for them too. Coatl+cleric of order+3 justice archons+Rikka has worked fairly well for me. Coatl+village priest+2 justice archons+2 warforged bodyguards would be an interesting mix too. It only leaves room for a human commoner/man at arms/city guard as the 7th activation though. | |
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Feathers
Underboss
1140 Posts
| | 03/19/2006 4:46 AM |
| | A big weakness of any band with Rikka is her propensity to rout. With CE making a comeback and the guaranteed presence of Orc Wardrummers, I don't think you can run Rikka anymore. Lvl 5 is just too low. At least the JA is staying put. | |
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Narcissus
Warrior
197 Posts
| | 03/19/2006 7:29 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Feathers
A big weakness of any band with Rikka is her propensity to rout. With CE making a comeback and the guaranteed presence of Orc Wardrummers, I don't think you can run Rikka anymore. Lvl 5 is just too low. At least the JA is staying put.
Bodyguard. | |
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Thespian
Sergeant
442 Posts
Lethbridge, Alberta
| | 03/19/2006 10:47 AM |
| | Yeah, that bodyguard can really save the day and distribute the damage taken in such a way so that your Rikka might not have make a morale save... | |
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Narcissus
Warrior
197 Posts
| | 03/19/2006 6:39 PM |
| | Not only that but swings on Rikka or CoY or the Bodyguard or the Couatl are swings not being made on the Marut. I think those dismissing the Marut band, now that the WF Bodyguard is around, really are not seeing the full potential of being able to distribute damage as the receiver chooses (to a point). As a matter of fact, I may even consider a second bodyguard instead of Rikka or the JA. Its damage output is poor but, at least, it actually has a damage output and is not, therefore, pure tech. Having used BG extensively in SWM, I think it could be very viable to take two in some situations. Testing will determine whether or not this is one of those situations. | |
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D&D Miniatures
Guru
guyf
Sergeant
545 Posts
| | 03/19/2006 6:57 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Gnolaum
A one piece fearless level 10 titan that has one attack, but hits hard and often. A Couatl that can bring that up to 2 attacks/turn.
...
You get 3 big attacks a turn, the same could be done with another Couatl.
BTW: "Round", not "turn:"
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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LeClaire
Warrior
225 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 6:01 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Thespian
Yeah, that bodyguard can really save the day and distribute the damage taken in such a way so that your Rikka might not have make a morale save...
I'm not so sure that this is the way to go. A large part of what I like about Rikka is her Waylay ability. The WFBodyguard might have trouble getting next to her in many matches. I try to not count on my opponent making things easy for me. [:)] | |
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Gnolaum
Sergeant
854 Posts
| | 03/21/2006 1:04 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by guyf
quote:
Originally posted by Gnolaum
A one piece fearless level 10 titan that has one attack, but hits hard and often. A Couatl that can bring that up to 2 attacks/turn.
...
You get 3 big attacks a turn, the same could be done with another Couatl.
BTW: "Round", not "turn:"
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=493596
Bah, fixed :P. | |
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Narcissus
Warrior
197 Posts
| | 03/21/2006 5:02 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by LeClaire
quote:
Originally posted by Thespian
Yeah, that bodyguard can really save the day and distribute the damage taken in such a way so that your Rikka might not have make a morale save...
I'm not so sure that this is the way to go. A large part of what I like about Rikka is her Waylay ability. The WFBodyguard might have trouble getting next to her in many matches. I try to not count on my opponent making things easy for me. [:)]
In a Marut / Couatl / Bodyguard build, Rikka would be included as a second hitter, a healer and a distraction. If the situation arose, her Waylay ability could be used but it is hardly necessary to do so. As a matter of fact, regardless of the band, I think Waylay should not be used most of the time and only used when a good opportunity presents itself. I think Rikka would be worth her points if she did not have Waylay and that Waylay is simply a bonus. | |
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LeClaire
Warrior
225 Posts
| | 03/22/2006 10:56 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Narcissus
... In a Marut / Couatl / Bodyguard build, Rikka would be included as a second hitter, a healer and a distraction. If the situation arose, her Waylay ability could be used but it is hardly necessary to do so. As a matter of fact, regardless of the band, I think Waylay should not be used most of the time and only used when a good opportunity presents itself. I think Rikka would be worth her points if she did not have Waylay and that Waylay is simply a bonus.
For me it's not the waylay itself, it's the threat of the waylay. She can be more than worth her points in some games simply by remaining off the board. Then having her swoop in once the foe has committed all their big hitters, so as to threaten the soft, chewy centre... mmmmm, marshmallowy. If the foe stays concentrated, and keeps a big gun in reserve to deal with her eventual arrival, then she has forced a tactical necessity, and thwarted a threat all without dirtying her lily-white hands. It's all relative. For some fights she's front-and-centre right from the get-go. But she has that wonderful potential... that whimsical flexibility that I so treasure. | |
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Narcissus
Warrior
197 Posts
| | 03/23/2006 8:05 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by LeClaire
quote:
Originally posted by Narcissus
... In a Marut / Couatl / Bodyguard build, Rikka would be included as a second hitter, a healer and a distraction. If the situation arose, her Waylay ability could be used but it is hardly necessary to do so. As a matter of fact, regardless of the band, I think Waylay should not be used most of the time and only used when a good opportunity presents itself. I think Rikka would be worth her points if she did not have Waylay and that Waylay is simply a bonus.
For me it's not the waylay itself, it's the threat of the waylay. She can be more than worth her points in some games simply by remaining off the board. Then having her swoop in once the foe has committed all their big hitters, so as to threaten the soft, chewy centre... mmmmm, marshmallowy. If the foe stays concentrated, and keeps a big gun in reserve to deal with her eventual arrival, then she has forced a tactical necessity, and thwarted a threat all without dirtying her lily-white hands. It's all relative. For some fights she's front-and-centre right from the get-go. But she has that wonderful potential... that whimsical flexibility that I so treasure.
That is an excellent point. So many figures are valuable, not because of their power but because of the THREAT of bringing that power to bear. They change the way an opponent plays. Such types of figures may be anchors, ranged attackers covering an area, fast moving offensive threats, retaliators to attacks, the list goes on. Perception is an exceptionally powerful weapon. | |
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