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Subject: Githzerai?....I doubt about it....

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iluvxtina
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03/19/2006 4:07 PM  
Last tournament I ran a githzerai warband and It works so great that I though it was the best warband I have ever ran.Last night I repeat warband and the results were: I lose.Why?A lot of marut warbands.You think CE rules?Man,youre totally wrong.At least 30% of the challengers ran a marut warband.My githzerais were obliterated so easily.This is my brothers warband (the winner):

-Marut
-Warforged bodyguard
-couatl
-cleric of order
-cleric yondalla
-aramil adventurer

With this warband he crashed a beholder with gauth,a chraals warband, an archmage and only defeated by the berserks (lucky guy).

Man,I think this is the current top warband

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taliesin
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03/19/2006 6:01 PM  
CoO and yondalla is superfluous. Either he should drop Yondalla and add Mialee (for MW on the Marut), or drop CoO for 8 activations.

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erisco
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03/19/2006 6:13 PM  
IMO, a warforged scout never hurts ;)

Giths could have used the auto crits against the Marut (doing 40-60 damage depending on how many monks you have, have 4 monks is an auto marut kill.. =0 ). If the Marut was not auto killed, you could focus on the bodyguard as he only has 17 AC and will keep 'healing' the Marut.

I think if played properly, Giths could take down the Marut band. I do know that the marut has a good chance of wiping out one gith a round. so you could always base the couatl which would reduce the total damage output to half.

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jacksonm
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River City

03/19/2006 6:28 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by erisco

IMO, a warforged scout never hurts ;)

Giths could have used the auto crits against the Marut (doing 40-60 damage depending on how many monks you have, have 4 monks is an auto marut kill.. =0 ). If the Marut was not auto killed, you could focus on the bodyguard as he only has 17 AC and will keep 'healing' the Marut.

I think if played properly, Giths could take down the Marut band. I do know that the marut has a good chance of wiping out one gith a round. so you could always base the couatl which would reduce the total damage output to half.



Maruts are constructs and thus immune to crits.

taliesin
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03/19/2006 6:33 PM  
But the unavoidable strike still guarantees a hit, and the Young Master's Cfx still works, which means 20 autodamage to the construct.

It's a tough fight, since you have to kill the bodyguard without any of your monks dying while saving the unavoidable strikes for the Marut, all while the marut dishes out 50 damage a round (SS from the Couatl).

Then again, every warband has some bad match-ups. Claiming Maruts remove gith monks from the metagame is like claiming Justice Archons remove Orc Champs. And I still see plenty of CE quad bands.

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ChristopherGroves
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03/19/2006 8:43 PM  
The real way the Marut removes the Gith Monks from the metagame is that the LG boys play less monks 'cause they are playing Maruts ...

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Thespian
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Lethbridge, Alberta

03/19/2006 10:00 PM  
Although I haven't tried it, I would love to match up this band against a band that has a Barbed Devil, Rakshasa, Kobald Sorcerer and a Zakya RakShasa. The idea is that the Rakshasa steals the Energy immunity (sonic is one the Devil DOES NOT have.), the Kobald gives the devil Magic weapon, and then you fight it out.

Each time the Marut hits, it is only for 20 now...and it will take 5 points every time, plus the Devil gives him back 15 of his own. Bring in the Zakya and the KOBALD.....and the MArut HAS to swing at the Kobald at least once! This gives you the opportunity to get the slapping hand going....and maybe you get an extra hit or two.

I think it could win most of the time, assuming the morale thing works. Of course, it has many other bad matchups....But it is close!

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The Fortress of Solitude

03/19/2006 10:06 PM  
I've noticed the Marut slowly replacing the Githzerai Monk in our local metagame as well. I suppose time, and the nature of the opposition, will tell which one becomes the de facto Large Silver Dragon replacement.

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YRM_DM
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03/19/2006 10:26 PM  
I went 3-0 with a pure Gith Assassin Squad today.

YM, 4x Gith, Warforged Scout, Barbarian Merc, Man at Arms

I took the Barbarian Merc just in case I ran into a lot of high HP chaotic bands.

Anyway, two of the games were very close.

An all dwarf band proved really competitive, although, 4 early natural 20s removed 2 monks. One of the monks double moved in early, and only a critical hit, morale failure, and hit on an AoO could have stopped him from Auto Critting in the next round... and that's what happened.

A Dark Naga, 2x Duergar, Zakya Rak, Enlarged Duergar, Sahuigan, Xorn and Kobold Miner also proved to be tough competition.

As far as the Marut goes, if you see lots of Maruts in the metagame, why not try:

quote:
Young Master
3x Gith Monk
Dwarf Artificer
Eberk
Arcanix Guard
Warforged Scout


First, even a Marut will sometimes miss AC 28.
Second, the Young Master is harder to hit at AC 24 or 28 vs AoO.
Third, the extra boost to saves helps.
Fourth, Artificer can make it easier to hit the Marut.
Fifth, Artificer can make one Monk +11/+11
Sixth, Arcanix Guard can chip in on an AC lowered Marut or Bodyguard.
Seventh, You should get assault points and the lead.

Vs the Marut, you might be able to wipe out his assault point gatherers and just work on killing almost everything except for the Marut. (as an alternative to hitting the Marut for guaranteed 60 damage, then trying to finish off in spite of the bodyguard)

The Couatl goes down in just 2 AutoCrit/Stuns, and the Marut can't be everywhere. If the Marut starts missing 35% of the time or more, that's a pretty big deal.

Why not kill as much of the rest of his warband as possible and only lose 2-3 monks while getting ahead on scoring?

(that is, if he's playing the Marut and Bodyguard close to the vest... it probably means there are some openings to get around them somewhere.)



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The Fortress of Solitude

03/19/2006 10:37 PM  
Yes, around two or three tournaments ago, one of the guys ran an Artificer with his Giths and it was devastating. He wasn't able to use that construct-hurting spell, but the higher AC all around was just too much for my Inspired Frenzy band to hit. I think my FB missed on all but one of the swings she took in that game - what a recipe for disaster.

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Thespian
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Lethbridge, Alberta

03/19/2006 11:39 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by YRM_DM

I went 3-0 with a pure Gith Assassin Squad today.

YM, 4x Gith, Warforged Scout, Barbarian Merc, Man at Arms

I took the Barbarian Merc just in case I ran into a lot of high HP chaotic bands.

Anyway, two of the games were very close.

An all dwarf band proved really competitive, although, 4 early natural 20s removed 2 monks. One of the monks double moved in early, and only a critical hit, morale failure, and hit on an AoO could have stopped him from Auto Critting in the next round... and that's what happened.

A Dark Naga, 2x Duergar, Zakya Rak, Enlarged Duergar, Sahuigan, Xorn and Kobold Miner also proved to be tough competition.

As far as the Marut goes, if you see lots of Maruts in the metagame, why not try:

quote:
Young Master
3x Gith Monk
Dwarf Artificer
Eberk
Arcanix Guard
Warforged Scout


First, even a Marut will sometimes miss AC 28.
Second, the Young Master is harder to hit at AC 24 or 28 vs AoO.
Third, the extra boost to saves helps.
Fourth, Artificer can make it easier to hit the Marut.
Fifth, Artificer can make one Monk +11/+11
Sixth, Arcanix Guard can chip in on an AC lowered Marut or Bodyguard.
Seventh, You should get assault points and the lead.

Vs the Marut, you might be able to wipe out his assault point gatherers and just work on killing almost everything except for the Marut. (as an alternative to hitting the Marut for guaranteed 60 damage, then trying to finish off in spite of the bodyguard)

The Couatl goes down in just 2 AutoCrit/Stuns, and the Marut can't be everywhere. If the Marut starts missing 35% of the time or more, that's a pretty big deal.

Why not kill as much of the rest of his warband as possible and only lose 2-3 monks while getting ahead on scoring?

(that is, if he's playing the Marut and Bodyguard close to the vest... it probably means there are some openings to get around them somewhere.)




I wholeheartedly agree. You have to understand that the Couatl is the KEY to this match entirely. Three giths without a YM with them can do it. Then there is no more SS and the Bodyguard is no longer fearless either. The Marut is a good fig - and AWESOME with the right support. Keep in mind though....A gith monk moves 10....marut moves 4. Those are magic numbers indeed. he can't double move and hit you. Position your guys in the best place and then you will be able to strike!

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The Fortress of Solitude

03/19/2006 11:42 PM  
I agree. There is no reason that a Gith Monk should not be able to strike first, unless the opponent is running a GMA in his back pocket.

On another note, I never understood how such a cheap piece could hit so well, move so fast, and have an AC of 25. I guess the Gith's big weakness is the 55 HP against non-attacking damage.

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Gunthar
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03/20/2006 12:16 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by Thespian
....marut moves 4.


The MArut moves 6, which is a big part of making him playable.

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XAos
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London

03/20/2006 5:39 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by taliesin

CoO and yondalla is superfluous. Either he should drop Yondalla and add Mialee (for MW on the Marut), or drop CoO for 8 activations.


CoO is init+5 & AC+2 on the Marut. An OK gain from 24pts.
CoY is much less valuable. I'd replace him with a warforged scout & either Mailee or a Timber wolf.

The other obvious commander for a Marut/Bodyguard combo is the CoDA.
Init+7 & can heal the bodyguard for 30hp, twice.

Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything.

Gloom_
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03/20/2006 10:40 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by XAos

quote:
Originally posted by taliesin

CoO and yondalla is superfluous. Either he should drop Yondalla and add Mialee (for MW on the Marut), or drop CoO for 8 activations.


CoO is init+5 & AC+2 on the Marut. An OK gain from 24pts.
CoY is much less valuable. I'd replace him with a warforged scout & either Mailee or a Timber wolf.



CoO is save +3 too, which is handy, pushes the Marut ofver the edge from a competent save, to a solid one. Cleric of Order is my favoured LG titan commander (I've tried Marut, Stone Golem, and Aspect of Moradin), because for your points, you're getting some decent buff spells, and a nice commander rating. Cleric of Yondalla, definately much less useful. It's good in 100 points, and situations where an extra commander is absolutely essential (because commander 3 for 13 pts or whatever it is) is a nifty bargain, but in a situation with a Couatl for example (especially with a CoO), it's a bit of a waste, as you already have other commanders. Aramil would be a much better bet, or maybe upping the activations.


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Lethbridge, Alberta

03/20/2006 10:41 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by Gunthar

quote:
Originally posted by Thespian
....marut moves 4.


The MArut moves 6, which is a big part of making him playable.




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Sector 2814

03/20/2006 12:42 PM  
I think with the current metagame, the dwarf artificer is very necessary to a LG band, both for the AC boost, and the anti-construct potential in round 3. Greater MW is also good for helping the lower atk bonuses to get up to more admirable levels.

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